View Full Version : Help identifying this team
Hi all, I have been trying to identify this team for years. My Great-grandpa is one of the team members. They played near Jewell, Kansas. The three guys in the photo are all team members, and their names are Bert Cluster, Harve Kramer, and Harry McClain (my Great-grandpa). I don't have any other info, I just want to figure out who Grandpa Harry played for. Any help/info/ideas are all appreciated. Thanks!
Thanks to everyone for looking, I know this team has something out there. A copy of it was used during pre-game before one of the Superbowls, my whole family saw it, except, me, I was at the fridge getting a beer. The original is owned by one of my cousins, we all have a copy we hang in our house. Any info about Kansas pre-professional football, the uniforms, the type of ball, etc. would be helpful. I'm just looking for a place to start. Thanks again for looking.
Myachelydra
01-28-2014, 04:44 AM
I wish I had more information to share. From the mixed ages I would say it is town team or an athletic club.b The possibility that it is a college team also exists. The picture, based on the vests, ball, and grooming styles was likely taken in the 1890's.
What is your Great Grandfather's date of birth? Do you know if he attended college? Did he have memberships in any clubs or fraternal organizations?
Well, I'm not sure exactly when Grandpa Harry was born, but setting this team in the 1890s is right, but it would probably be the later half of the 1890s. I know he was paid to play, which would put it for sure after 1892. His family was from Cincinnati, and they owned the newspapers there. He was dis-inherited because he wanted to play football for a living instead of going to college or working for the newspapers. I know the photo on the bottom was taken in Jewell, Kansas, and all three guys are in the team photo, and I know Harry lived in Kansas for a while. So I am guessing that this was an athletic club team from Kansas around 1895-99. But I can't find any reference guide that lists Harry McClain (any spelling variation), Harve Kramer, or Bert Cluster from that time period. Anyway, thanks for thinking about it. I knew it would be hard to place, like a needle in a haystack for these semi-pro teams that didn't always keep great records.
jefferyepayne
01-28-2014, 05:25 PM
Found this in ancestry.com
Kansas State Census Collection, 1855-1925 1890s View Image
Name: Harry McClain
Birth: abt 1876 - location
Residence: date - city, Jewell, Kansas
Some state census records are available on the web.
jeff
pariah1107
01-28-2014, 10:00 PM
Is it me, or does it read " '96 " on the football?
Myachelydra
01-29-2014, 04:54 AM
It does...nice eyes!
Wow, you guys are good. I've had that photo for my whole life, and never saw that! Thanks, now all I have to find are Kansas teams from 1896! Great starting place!
andybecker
01-30-2014, 09:21 PM
great piece with family ties! that's awesome!
may I ask, how do you know he was paid to play? I'm curious.
information on town, independent, and semi-pro teams is really hard to find pre-1900. not much at all west of Mississippi river until you get to the coast.
i can't offer much help, but I suggest trying the PFRA (professional football researcher's association).
pariah1107
01-30-2014, 09:35 PM
Might I suggest starting here: 1896 Glasco Kansas Football team. Founded in 1893 by University of Ottawa grad Tom Day. In 1896 the Glasco town team played the University of Kansas among others colleges according to the website below. They were "farm boys" but not affiliated with any school, probably semi-pro and modestly paid. The town of Glasco is about 30-40 miles from Jewell City, Kansas.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glasco,_Kansas
http://www.skyways.org/towns/Glasco/history.htm
I'll see what I can find in microfiche tomorrow on this team. Especially a lineup.
great piece with family ties! that's awesome!
may I ask, how do you know he was paid to play? I'm curious.
information on town, independent, and semi-pro teams is really hard to find pre-1900. not much at all west of Mississippi river until you get to the coast.
i can't offer much help, but I suggest trying the PFRA (professional football researcher's association).
I know he was paid because he always said so. He was very proud of playing football. But I was pretty young, and don't remember much else about him.
pariah1107
01-31-2014, 12:17 PM
Here's what I could find today: Please tell me if I'm mistaken, especially about your relative, but here's info on Harry McClain, Harve Kreamer, and Bert Cluster.
Harry W. McClain (October 26, 1876 - August 1968). Born Albia, Iowa moved to Odessa, Kansas 1885 and later Jewell City (1900 US census). Married Nellie Mae Wilson November 19, 1911 in Sioux City, Nebraska. His 1916 WW1 draft registration lists his occupation as self-employed, farmer. Passed away in Ontario, San Bernardino, California 1968.
Bert Cluster (June 26, 1877 - June 25, 1951). Born in Missouri but moved to Odessa, Jewell County, Kansas 1885. Practically a lifetime in Jewell, Kansas, briefly moved to Buffalo, Kansas in 1920 only to return to Jewell in 1930. His WW1 draft registration lists his job as secretary/treasurer for EL Gray Company. Passed away in Jewell, and is buried there.
James "Harve" Kreamer (1878 - ?). Born in Illinois, but moved to Jewell City, Kansas by the 1880 census. He was a Corporal promoted to Sergeant in the Spanish American War (1898). Lived a great deal of his life in Ottawa, Kansas. Unknown when/where he passed.
All three of these men seemed to live in, or around Jewell, Kansas throughout the 1890's. I believe finding Bert Clusters' obit would be most helpful. A lifetime resident of Jewell, it may have mentioned his semi-pro football days.
1896 was a rough year in Kansas football history as Bert Serf, QB for Doane University, was killed in a game versus University of Kansas (November 17, 1896, The Advocate) I believe your great grandfather was paid as "Professionalism was an acknowledged problem" in Kansas football, especially surrounding the short-lived career of Rollo Krebs, a ringer who played four years for University of West Virginia. In 1899, KU administrators cracked down on professionals in college football. Krebs later acknowledged "he did not come to Kansas for an education he came to play football". History of Kansas Football.
Hope this is helpful. Got a friend at the Washington State Library who has access to the Glasco Sun newspaper (1895-99). He's going to help, and will probably get back to me after the Seahawks win the Super Bowl:D.
pariah1107
01-31-2014, 03:37 PM
Here's a person who seems far more familiar with the history of Jewell City, Kansas (and how to access it) than I could ever be, might want to contact....
http://bigmomma.newsvine.com/story-of-the-old-home-town?&_suid=139120733267607252262292895466
Good luck sir.
The info on Harry seems part right. I always understood that he was from Cincinnati, and Grandma McClain was born Annabelle Austin. But he did die in Ontario, California. I have never heard of anyone coming from Iowa. My mom was born in Cincinnati, where my grandparents were married, but I honestly don't know where my grand mother was born. I know Harry and Annabelle had three daughters, Clyde, my grandmother (grandpa Harry wanted a boy, named her Clyde), Josephine, and Inez. I don't have any birth records on them, I just assumed from all the family talk that they where from Cincinnati. Harry's cousin was Edward McClean (same name, different spelling, even Harry spelled it McClean sometimes). I also saw another Harry McClain in the 1895 Kansas census, in Jewell, but he was only 7yrs. old. This is why it is so hard to track, but I know Grandpa was in Jewell in 1896, the photo of just the three was taken at a studio in Jewell. The person that picked up the photo was named Maggie McClain, and it says "aunt". That's written on the back. Great info, though, and I will definitely contact the lady on your link! Thanks so much for all your help, I know a lot more, and can make some guesses now.