I think the site is getting visious> sp

[jcmtiger]

I do like that members point out outright flaws and counterfeit, whatever in auction Houses, ebay auctions and all other hobby sites. a similarity (sp) with the politics of the Nation. Negative, Negative!!!!. With no proof, just their opinions on auction house and eBay, see some of the posts. But, I will admit there are many posters that know what they are talking about, just a few that don't, the same posters say the same things over and over. I think it is the same thing, success means bring the successful down. To many experts that are not!!!

any other comments?

Joe

[wonkaticket]

Really? :confused:

So you think stuff like this is unfair to the poor auction houses & eBay sellers? You think this is someone like me being jealous of their success and that's the real motive?

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=180508

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=178565

Personally I think the site is fine…if I had to make a list of something to nitpick. Quite frankly at the risk of being too direct I would say we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here beyond what we used to have but the site has grown etc. I would see that as a bigger issue here than folks pointing out and policing their hobby.

Perhaps you have an example to illustrate your point?

I've seen this rough stance before from you love to get more details and your thoughts Joe.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=180592

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Gets vicious sometimes but it has never been directed at me. Really enjoy the site and have learned a lot.

[edjs]

I have been here for a short time, but for one I value that people here point out when auctions are dealing items not on the up and up. And the advice, camaraderie, and free exchange of knowledge has invigorated my enthusiasm for the hobby. Thanks again to Leon for letting me join.

[jcmtiger]

I just think some collectors on the site are getting to big for there britches. I have been collecting since 1973 and have seen a lot in those years. The same posters seem to post the same over and over about the auction houses. But, everyone seems to bid in these same auctions over and over. Some the experts on the board point out skinned, trimmed and altered cards all the time. Just by looking at scans, by the way. I do applaud the ones that are maybe right and the way they approach it.

As for as the auction sites, maybe they did bid on their own auctions, I don't know and I am not sure if the posters that say they did really know for sure.

I will say that I have bid and bought on auctions held by Lelands and Mastros and I do know both Josh and Bill and if they did wrong they will pay. By the way the people they worked with are still in the hobby.

Joe

[wonkaticket]

Joe I ask again do you have any examples of these “big for their britches” posts? Otherwise it just sounds like sour grapes and venting.

As for the people bidding with auction houses we are all guilty of doing business with folks who don’t deserve our business that is a problem I agree.

Cheers,

John

[Runscott]

Joe, I would love to think that anyone who has the same hobby passions as me, must be primarily in it because of their passion for collecting, and that they are all super-nice, extremely honest people.

But that would be me being a blind moron.

[EvilKing00]

I couldn't disagree more. The guys on this site that point out the fraud on auction houses and ebay are helping other members here so we don't get ripped off.

I would take some of these guys opinions anyday.

FYI next thread you see that is calling out a fake, why not just reply, with something like, "why is this a fake, I would like to learn how to catch one myself" and im sure they will point it out. I have learned quite a bit from asking questions.

[bobbyw8469]

FYI next thread you see that is calling out a fake, why not just reply, with something like, "why is this a fake, I would like to learn how to catch one myself" and im sure they will point it out. I have learned quite a bit from asking questions.

+1. I have learned a lot from these boards. And if you ever come across a suspect Sport Kings card, let me know. Those fakes are easy to spot, even for a rank amateur like me, yet people on Ebay still seem to bid on them and get stuck with them.

[calvindog]

Personally I think the site is fine…if I had to make a list of something to nitpick. Quite frankly at the risk of being too direct I would say we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here beyond what we used to have ....



Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

This seems kind of vicious. I enjoy the site because it gives me an opportunity to learn about the hobby.

[Section103]

It seems the same to me.

Good members have been lost and that will be mourned for a long time.
Eager new members come to learn and keep the place from becoming stale.
Inevitably some new member comes and can not or will not understand nuances of the culture.
EBay will get raked. More often than not, rightfully so.
Discourse will sink below levels that just should not happen. The Christmas Eat a dick thread comes to mind as just one.
The board goes on.

[btcarfagno]

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

Well I joined three years ago so...

...wait a minute...

Tom C

[Julz24]

No one wants to be swimming in negativity all the time. For that we could all just watch the news. My favorite topics here are often found with the help of the search function. But I appreciate the threads where members point out shilled auctions and phony cards. 95% of everything I know about vintage cards was learned here on Net54. Before I found this site, the last time I had heard the term pre war was in social studies class in H.S. Once I learn the difference between a W555 and a D308, I can add more to the discussions. Until then, I will defer to the experts and make my way back to the search button.

[ALR-bishop]

What was it to begin with ?

[Peter_Spaeth]

What was it to begin with ?

54

[bnorth]

Is this what shilling looks like? Bidder -***o(893) 73% bid history with seller and 25 bid retractions? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-Topps-414-Frank-Thomas-RC-HOF-NO-NAME-ON-FRONT-NNOF-BGS-8-5-w-9-The-Rarity-/360833085586? I have never been accused of being too bright and hope this is not vicious.:rolleyes:

[ullmandds]

Some reasons why there may be an increase in hostility are:

-unwillingness of members to do just the slightest bit of research prior to asking what may be perceived as "dumb" question...or atleast questions that have been hashed, rehashed, mashed and discussed ad nauseum many many times b4

-people coming here with the intent to commit acts of crookery

[itjclarke]

Geez, clearly some think highly of their own intellect. I've been on for about 2.5 years, so I guess I'm part of the IQ nosedive as well.

Oh well, at least I get to look at cool cards, post some of my own, and regularly learn new things. N54 has been a great place for me. I do see what the OP is talking about, and it can get off putting if/when people continue to pile on someone.. But I'm with the rest, in that if the posters here are protecting others from scammers, fakes, and getting ripped off, I'm all for it.

[egbeachley]

To many experts that are not!!!

any other comments?

Joe

If you think this is bad you should go back 6-7 years. Members were even pointing out grammar errors. I would never do that.

[WillowGrove]

Well I joined three years ago so...

...wait a minute...

Tom C

And I joined 4 years ago, so I made it in. Oh wait no 5 is MORE than 4. Darn.

[ullmandds]

I miss the days of the grammar police!!!:D

[slidekellyslide]

I miss the days of the grammar police!!!:D

No kidding...the title of this thread would have gotten the once over. :D

[Paul S]

I miss the days of the grammar police!!!:D

Really! I was about to post a reply of the viscosity of maple syrup.

[kcohen]

If you think this is bad you should go back 6-7 years. Members were even pointing out grammar errors. I would never do that.

Geez Mr. Sloate. I really don't think that you deserved that cheap shot.

[itjclarke]

Really! I was about to post a reply of the viscosity of maple syrup.

I'm saying 150 centipoieses

[calvindog]

54

Exactly. How do you think Net 54 got its name?

[Julz24]

Exactly. How do you think Net 54 got its name?

I thought 54 was the age requirement to be a member?? My bad.

Of course I'm still waiting on my IQ certification pw. I swear they take forever.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Exactly. How do you think Net 54 got its name?

Hahaha

[Paul S]

I'm saying 150 centipoieses

So I guess the meaning of this thread is for all dummies to keep our poiese?

[bn2cardz]

I am relatively new (2 years) to this board. Yet, reading through archived threads I don't see that it has gotten worse. People are still people and there a good threads and bad threads.

I think it is similar to how each generation thinks the generation after them is worse. Or how some elders talk about the "good ol days" and how they were so much better yet forget the World War and the great depression they lived through.

[steve B]

I only joined a bit over 4 years ago.

I hope I've added something.
I do know I've learned a lot, especially about stuff I don't usually see and often don't look closely at because I simply can't afford it.

This board can be a harsh place. Most people here will give someone a chance, but there's little tolerance for any sort of shenanigans.
As someone who mostly deals with cheap stuff, It sometimes might seem a bit uptight. But then I consider that the fake item might sell for thousands and it makes a lot more sense. If I buy a card for $5 and it's fake or shilled I'd feel bad, but chalk it up as something learned. If I had bought one of the fake Magies I'd really have a problem.

I don't agree with everyone about everything, and that's something I actually think is good. But I also don't buy the common internet concept that everyones opinion is equal. Some of the people here were dealers before I started collecting, and have handled multiples of cards I'll probably never own. Some people only started recently (Welcome to the asylum !:D ) I know whose opinion I'd give more weight. But I would at least read all of them.
The same goes for people in some professions. I'm always baffled by someone who questions a solid opinion by for instance a lawyer discussing law unless they're in the same line of work.

I'm not particularly shy about expressing an opinion, and sometimes I'm wrong. I think a big part of having strong opinions is being able to change them when I'm wrong and being able to say "I was wrong" Of course I also tend to state things in ways that a lot of people don't get. (Seldom any absolutes, and a sliding scale of how sure I am)

And I'm rambling.....Sorry, I'm still working on that. Probably always will be.

Steve B

[Leon]

I am relatively new (2 years) to this board. Yet, reading through archived threads I don't see that it has gotten worse. People are still people and there a good threads and bad threads.

I think it is similar to how each generation thinks the generation after them is worse. Or how some elders talk about the "good ol days" and how they were so much better yet forget the World War and the great depression they lived through.

You are correct Andy. The more our hobby changes the more it stays the same. Every time someone says "gee, there are a lot of idiots on the board" I tell them to put 5000 people in a room and see what you get. As we have gotten bigger, which I think is better, it's just the way it is. Also, many times, when I or someone else posts things about the history of our hobby from 30-75 yrs ago, we see the EXACT same sentiments being bantered about. To me it's all good. We need the wild swings to the right and left to have harmony, imo. But then again my IQ hasn't reached 54 yet. :confused::confused:

[autograf]

Hopefully the IQ gets there before the waistline for most of us..............

[4815162342]

I joined the (old) board in January 2009. My apologies for contributing to the decline of the Net54 collective IQ.

http://www.themediaspeaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/duncecap.jpg

:rolleyes:

[slidekellyslide]

I'd like Joe to come back to his own thread and give some examples as to where the board is being vicious. I think there have been instances where the board has ganged up on other posters, but it's usually (almost always?) because that poster did something untoward...This board gets results, there is no reason why we should have to put up with shilling, card doctoring, or other shady practices.

[wolf441]

I only joined a bit over 4 years ago.

I hope I've added something.
I do know I've learned a lot, especially about stuff I don't usually see and often don't look closely at because I simply can't afford it.

This board can be a harsh place. Most people here will give someone a chance, but there's little tolerance for any sort of shenanigans.
As someone who mostly deals with cheap stuff, It sometimes might seem a bit uptight. But then I consider that the fake item might sell for thousands and it makes a lot more sense. If I buy a card for $5 and it's fake or shilled I'd feel bad, but chalk it up as something learned. If I had bought one of the fake Magies I'd really have a problem.

I don't agree with everyone about everything, and that's something I actually think is good. But I also don't buy the common internet concept that everyones opinion is equal. Some of the people here were dealers before I started collecting, and have handled multiples of cards I'll probably never own. Some people only started recently (Welcome to the asylum !:D ) I know whose opinion I'd give more weight. But I would at least read all of them.
The same goes for people in some professions. I'm always baffled by someone who questions a solid opinion by for instance a lawyer discussing law unless they're in the same line of work.

I'm not particularly shy about expressing an opinion, and sometimes I'm wrong. I think a big part of having strong opinions is being able to change them when I'm wrong and being able to say "I was wrong" Of course I also tend to state things in ways that a lot of people don't get. (Seldom any absolutes, and a sliding scale of how sure I am)

And I'm rambling.....Sorry, I'm still working on that. Probably always will be.

Steve B


I've only been on the board for a bit less than 2 years, but I know that I've learned a ton from your posts Steve, particularly around the printing process. You are definitely an asset to the forum, so keep on posting!! :)

[wonkaticket]

I'd like Joe to come back to his own thread and give some examples as to where the board is being vicious. I think there have been instances where the board has ganged up on other posters, but it's usually (almost always?) because that poster did something untoward...This board gets results, there is no reason why we should have to put up with shilling, card doctoring, or other shady practices.

+1 I'll ask a second time Joe do you have examples?

[kcohen]

OK John. Here's an example.

[frankbmd]

Leon,

I know you hate to subdivide the forum into ever increasing sections, but this thread is completely ignoring the Grade B idiots. Perhaps they need their own forum section. Let us strive to be inclusive, divisive and derisive. :p;):D

[wonkaticket]

You are correct Andy. The more our hobby changes the more it stays the same. Every time someone says "gee, there are a lot of idiots on the board" I tell them to put 5000 people in a room and see what you get. As we have gotten bigger, which I think is better, it's just the way it is. Also, many times, when I or someone else posts things about the history of our hobby from 30-75 yrs ago, we see the EXACT same sentiments being bantered about. To me it's all good. We need the wild swings to the right and left to have harmony, imo. But then again my IQ hasn't reached 54 yet. :confused::confused:

Leon, agree and that's what I meant by the site has grown from the old days, and while I will stick to my guns that there have been some real wall lickers that have come and gone there has been some real good guys as well. The one constant that has been has been you Leon just remember you will always be our king. :)

I may have to get you this hat for the National. :D

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/net54shared/king_of_the_idiots_trucker_hat-r0947e94760284ecda104b27512b022b3_v9wfy_8byvr_324. jpg

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/gsSfV4RSZ_I" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I also know the earfuls Josh Leland gave you about Jeff and I I’m sure you had our backs. Kudos for that.

[Paul S]

Leon,

I know you hate to subdivide the forum into ever increasing sections, but this thread is completely ignoring the Grade B idiots. Perhaps they need their own forum section. Let us strive to be inclusive, divisive and derisive. :p;):D

Frank, would that work? This is why I never go into the chat area. I'm too impetuous on the ENTER button before I edit.

What a maroon - Bugs Bunny

[nolemmings]

Wait a minute, if Leon's our king then who are the Kings of Leon?

[Paul S]

Wait a minute, if Leon's our king then who are the Kings of Leon?

I don't know the answer. Maybe they were related to the House of David?

[itjclarke]

So I guess the meaning of this thread is for all dummies to keep our poiese?

Damn, and the collective IQ drops even further (assist to my phone keyboard)- "centipoise"

[atx840]

I've only been on the board for a bit less than 2 years, but I know that I've learned a ton from your posts Steve, particularly around the printing process. You are definitely an asset to the forum, so keep on posting!! :)


Big +1

Steve, I really appreciate your insight into all things print related....I've learned a ton from your posts :D

[chipperhank44]

I think passion and the responsibility to protect the hobby can be misconstrued as "viciousness". Righteous anger or outrage is what I have seen it as, not senseless vicious attacks. Just my perspective though.

[barrysloate]

Geez Mr. Sloate. I really don't think that you deserved that cheap shot.

Thanks Ken. Not a big deal. I still believe people should write clearly and accurately, even if nobody else agrees.

[wonkaticket]

Thanks Ken. Not a big deal. I still believe people should write clearly and accurately, even if nobody else agrees.

I agrees Barry.

[Mikehealer]

Thanks Ken. Not a big deal. I still believe people should write clearly and accurately, even if nobody else agrees.

Barry, I agree. I for one miss your spelling and grammar corrections.

[Rob D.]

Thanks Ken. Not a big deal. I still believe people should write clearly and accurately, even if nobody else agrees.

Thanks, Ken.

[ullmandds]

me to!

[barrysloate]

A roomful of comedians....(and that wasn't even a complete sentence).

[ullmandds]

to hell with this site...I think movie theatres are getting vicious!!!

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Adrian :(

[MattyC]

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

This comment and the one that it's agreeing with ("Quite frankly at the risk of being too direct I would say we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here") are quite insulting, off putting, catty, and condescending to newer board members like myself. I can only hope that I and the friends I've encouraged to join here since 2012 can one day raise our IQs, so as not to dumb down the tenured Mensa members here.

With respect to the original post, I have found the overall tenor of discourse-- especially on the Post-War side, lately-- to be very collegial and supportive. Just a group of enthusiastic collectors sharing cards, putting each other onto new cards to appreciate, basically what one would come to a place such as this to do.

[midwaylandscaping]

Modern baseball cards (70- present or so), Modern football, Star Basketball Cards, OPC Hockey I'm pretty good knowledge wise. But I appreciate every post I see on here by members pointing out, shall I call them discrepancies, on the older cards and anything pre war. Because when it comes to those cards, I am admittedly, as Forrest Gump would say, not a smart man. Appreciate any knowledge I can glean... :D

[calvindog]

This comment and the one that it's agreeing with ("Quite frankly at the risk of being too direct I would say we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here") are quite insulting, off putting, catty, and condescending to newer board members like myself. I can only hope that I and the friends I've encouraged to join here since 2012 can one day raise our IQs, so as not to dumb down the tenured Mensa members here.



What's more insulting are barely decipherable efforts to stop criticism of auction house owners who commit the most obvious fraud, either because of personal friendship or financial motive or even collusion as a consigner. Such actions were offensive when the protected parties were Bill Mastro and Doug Allen and the actions are offensive today. If you don't mind getting ripped off, here's my advice: instead of whining about the posts which call out the frauds, stfu or skip to the next thread. First, no one is forcing you to read them; and second, the efforts to stop the criticism have clearly failed and will never succeed. If you have something to add to the discussion, we all are free to do so. But attempts to stop the discourse are wrong, even if the auction head is your brother, your mother, your hobby friend or your co-conspirator.

Lastly if anyone's feelings were wounded about my observation of the relative IQ of the board, I would hope you know that I was making a larger point and not measuring intelligence.

[Gradedcardman]

I have not read through the 55 posts as of yet. The site is extremely good for information and networking. I certainly feel that some of the people are vicious on the site, no doubt. I was contacted by a board member before Christmas asking if I was interested in a card they had for my PD 42 conquest. This is a board member I had done a transaction with and had no problem. I asked which card it was and it turned out I had the card. I thanked him for asking me and said have a good evening. Immediately I get another PM telling me that "it's ok, you couldn't afford a card like that in a PSA 6 anyway and oh by the way you are a joke in this hobby", after I eventually told him how to spend his evening he asked if I was going to post the PM's for everyone to see. I replied no. Quite honestly I just choose to not correspond with the person anymore and move on. There's always someone who has more money, more access, more cards...and too much ego. I enjoy the hobby and 99% of the people are great. There's always one person who tries to beat you down.

[MattyC]

What's more insulting is barely decipherable efforts to stop criticism of auction house owners who commit the most obvious fraud, either because of personal friendship or financial motive or even collusion as a consigner. Such actions were offensive when the protected parties were Bill Mastro and Doug Allen and the actions are offensive today. If you don't mind getting ripped off, here's my advice: instead of whining about the posts which call out the frauds, stfu or skip to the next thread. First, no one is forcing you to read them; and second, the efforts to stop the criticism have clearly failed and will never succeed. If you have something to add to the discussion, we all are free to do so. But attempts to stop the discourse are wrong, even if the auction head is your brother, your mother, your hobby friend or your co-conspirator.

Lastly if anyone's feelings were wounded about my observation of the relative IQ of the board, I would hope you know that I was making a larger point and not measuring intelligence.

Jeff,

I did read that IQ comment as a broad slight to relative newcomers, and if no offense was intended, then none will be taken. I do agree with your position regarding the OP.

Best,

Matt Cirulnick

[gregr2]

It's a forum....you have to learn who's opinion is valuable and who's is not....that usually doesn't take too long to figure out.

I'm new. I ask a lot of questions but I'm not dumb!! :)

[lharri3600]

to hell with this site...I think movie theatres are getting vicious!!!

You got that right Pete, based on what I read in the paper this morning!

[wonkaticket]

This comment and the one that it's agreeing with ("Quite frankly at the risk of being too direct I would say we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here") are quite insulting, off putting, catty, and condescending to newer board members like myself. I can only hope that I and the friends I've encouraged to join here since 2012 can one day raise our IQs, so as not to dumb down the tenured Mensa members here.

What’s even more insulting is that people today have become so self-centered and overly sensitive to assume that any basic generalized statement made on chat board is directed towards them personally. :rolleyes:

These are generally the same people who announce their departure as well.

Sorry if I think the guy claiming to own the “Nuns” Wagner or the multitude of other morons that have popped up here are somehow above calling “Grade A” idiots.

John

[Paul S]

A roomful of comedians....(and that wasn't even a complete sentence).

Barry, that's four periods in an ellipsis ;)

[MattyC]

That's it. I hereby announce my departure! ;)

[t206fix]

54

54!
Well, hell, my IQ of 62 has actually brought up the collective IQ of this board...


By the way, I still haven't figured out how to post yet to this site. Can anyone help me out with this?

[Leon]

What’s even more insulting is that people today have become so self-centered and overly sensitive to assume that any basic generalized statement made on chat board is directed towards them personally. :rolleyes:

These are generally the same people who announce their departure as well.

Sorry if I think the guy claiming to own the “Nuns” Wagner or the multitude of other morons that have popped up here are somehow above calling “Grade A” idiots.

John

Multitude is a relative term. Putting it in perspective, there are actually very few absolute morons that come onto the forum. We see the few of them because we all shine our lights on them(so to speak). The forum is still averaging 80+ (closer to 100) new registrants every month. We might have seen a dozen, to twenty, real maroons in the last few years. I would say the idiots are outnumbered greatly. And they (the idiots) seem to get weeded out pretty quickly. Just my biased opinion. Like I say, put 5000 people in the same room and this is what we get.....I might have rose colored glasses on but I say more than 99% of the board are good people....which still leaves room for a few idiots :).

[bobbyw8469]

YEA!!! I did not make the "idiot" team!

[freakhappy]

What’s even more insulting is that people today have become so self-centered and overly sensitive to assume that any basic generalized statement made on chat board is directed towards them personally. :rolleyes:



These are generally the same people who announce their departure as well.



Sorry if I think the guy claiming to own the “Nuns” Wagner or the multitude of other morons that have popped up here are somehow above calling “Grade A” idiots.



John


Easy john...have that second cup of coffee!

It is what it is, John. Calling people idiots is a strong accusation. Although I know who you are mostly talking about, a lot do not. I am not sensitive to what most people say, but I do not fault someone if they have an opposing opinion.

Love ya :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Rickyy]

I think the venting about auction houses and other questionable sellers and or dealings are fine as is...its been proven that shady practices have occurred and still do... by being persistently vigilant about it.. it keeps those in the dark side on alert and the hobby as a whole benefits...people who are not members here on Net 54 but are still passionate collectors are also being helped by this whether they know it or not...

Ricky Y

[Rickyy]

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

Hmmm..I should re check my Mensa score/rating now... :eek: wait...I think I'm a member of Densa?... :eek: :(

Ricky Y

[slipk1068]

Sorry if I think the guy claiming to own the “Nuns” Wagner or the multitude of other morons that have popped up here are somehow above calling “Grade A” idiots.

John

Grade A idiot for sure, but the entertainment value cannot be denied

[Deertick]

to hell with this site...I think movie theatres are getting vicious!!!

The movie theater is less than 2.5 miles from my house. Senseless.

[barrysloate]

Barry, that's four periods in an ellipsis ;)

I'm a big fan of the four period ellipsis.:)

[wonkaticket]

Grade A idiot for sure, but the entertainment value cannot be denied

Agree not going to lie some very funny train wrecks as the place has grown. Once again a generalized statement isn’t directed at anyone personally most know the types of members I’m referring too as I outlined above.

However if that needs to be explained to you or you feel slighted or upset by a simple comment made on an internet forum…well to take a Jeff Foxworthy approach then you just might be an idiot. :D

[wonkaticket]

That's it. I hereby announce my departure! ;)

LOL, Funny Matt! :D

This is the part where a few members jump on the band wagon and beg you not to go because of mean ol' Wonka or Evil Jeff Lichtman. Then later slam you for laughs...ahh the internet. :)

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=85096

[itjclarke]

Calling people idiots is a strong accusation. Although I know who you are mostly talking about, a lot do not. I am not sensitive to what most people say, but I do not fault someone if they have an opposing opinion.

Pretty much my stance Mike. As mentioned by just about everyone else, we all appreciate the knowledge and red flags other board members provide. With that knowledge comes a measure of comfort (even security) when buying, which leads to more buyin. To me more buying=strong hobby. I know my own buying has spiked since joining the board, and I attribute much of this directly to board knowledge, enthusiasm, and to the ecclectic sets, I've been exposed to. I think as a whole this site is great for hobby health.

That said, I just think it's generally in poor taste to make broad "us and them" statements, where a line is drawn in the sand and "us" is on the righteous side, while "them" is on the wrong (newbie or low IQ or whatever). I think this can possibilty turn off would be member/collectors, or make some hesitant to ask what may be perceived as a dumb question. And not much to be gained buy fewer potential buyers. With regards to people being considered "too sensitive", this is roughly the same logic a school yard bully uses after he makes a kid cry. These types of comments/generalizations don't affect me, I just don't like to see people marginalized (hated and often stepped in when older guys would over-haze our pledges in college).. Heck, if I were truly worried about not being perceived as smart enough, I'd be curled up in a ball on my floor. I've been surrounded by degrees and "smart" people since birth- PHD/near astronaut dad, MD/JD surgeon sister, and now 5 of the 8 of my spouse/sibling/siblings in-law have JDs and the other two have master's. "Oh no, I'm the only one without a fancy degree??":eek:.

That said, I'm most impressed by those who are smart and impressive yet humble. This is why the sports world loves guys like Barry Sanders, and winces when it hears Jameous (no idea how to spell) Winston's post game speach. Many on this board are very smart, very accomplished, very successful, have amazing cardboard (which I love looking at daily!) and theoretically may be sitting on perch tall enough to look down and judge the others. On the flip side, this position gives you an opportunity to show great class to those less less knowledgeable or accomplished in this hobby.

Wow... I've already spoken far more than intended and need to get back to work. Time to tune out for a bit.

One last thing- Matty C, I highly doubt you were truly saying you will leave... but I hope not because your pickups on the postwar side are the Sport Center top 10 of the board.

[jcmtiger]

Maybe my post was a little to harsh. There are 2 things that bother me:

1) Same members posting over and over about the past problems of a couple of auctions houses.. We all get it, don't need to post the same thing over and over.

2) When a card is posted from an auction or a member posts the card. I don't think you can tell from a scan in most cases. But, members jump on the band wagon and can't wait to deem the card a fake, trimmed or whatever. Why not let the person know or the auction site to maybe get it checked out by someone in person. In all fairness sometimes they are right in their evaluation, but it is possible that some deals and auctions are harmed by these quick responses.

Just my thoughts

Joe

[kcohen]

Pretty much my stance Mike. As mentioned by just about everyone else, we all appreciate the knowledge and red flags other board members provide. With that knowledge comes a measure of comfort (even security) when buying, which leads to more buyin. To me more buying=strong hobby. I know my own buying has spiked since joining the board, and I attribute much of this directly to board knowledge, enthusiasm, and to the ecclectic sets, I've been exposed to. I think as a whole this site is great for hobby health.

That said, I just think it's generally in poor taste to make broad "us and them" statements, where a line is drawn in the sand and "us" is on the righteous side, while "them" is on the wrong (newbie or low IQ or whatever). I think this can possibilty turn off would be member/collectors, or make some hesitant to ask what may be perceived as a dumb question. And not much to be gained buy fewer potential buyers. With regards to people being considered "too sensitive", this is roughly the same logic a school yard bully uses after he makes a kid cry. These types of comments/generalizations don't affect me, I just don't like to see people marginalized (hated and often stepped in when older guys would over-haze our pledges in college).. Heck, if I were truly worried about not being perceived as smart enough, I'd be curled up in a ball on my floor. I've been surrounded by degrees and "smart" people since birth- PHD/near astronaut dad, MD/JD surgeon sister, and now 5 of the 8 of my spouse/sibling/siblings in-law have JDs and the other two have master's. "Oh no, I'm the only one without a fancy degree??":eek:.

That said, I'm most impressed by those who are smart and impressive yet humble. This is why the sports world loves guys like Barry Sanders, and winces when it hears Jameous (no idea how to spell) Winston's post game speach. Many on this board are very smart, very accomplished, very successful, have amazing cardboard (which I love looking at daily!) and theoretically may be sitting on perch tall enough to look down and judge the others. On the flip side, this position gives you an opportunity to show great class to those less less knowledgeable or accomplished in this hobby.

Wow... I've already spoken far more than intended and need to get back to work. Time to tune out for a bit.

One last thing- Matty C, I highly doubt you were truly saying you will leave... but I hope not because your pickups on the postwar side are the Sport Center top 10 of the board.

Could someone please send me the Cliff Notes.

[oldjudge]

I have been around the chat board for a long time and my impression is that it is less confrontational than it used to be. Some of those knock down drag outs used to be fun to watch.
As for coming down too hard on auction houses, I used to believe this was true. I was wrong. What Jeff and others like him have done has helped, and will continue to help, the hobby. The sad part is, while things may be better than they once were, there are still problems with many of the bigger players. Hopefully, people will continue to shine the light on problems and more of the bad actors will be shown the door.

[Tabe]

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.

I resent that. I lowered the IQ on here by AT LEAST 20 points.

[kcohen]

Thanks Ken. Not a big deal. I still believe people should write clearly and accurately, even if nobody else agrees.

Barry,

You're preaching to the choir. I assume that there are many who don't appreciate the time we spent in school diagramming sentences.

Ken

[calvindog]

1) Same members posting over and over about the past problems of a couple of auctions houses.. We all get it, don't need to post the same thing over and over.



As soon as the couple of auction houses stop committing fraud I'm certain the posts will stop. Not until then.

[4815162342]

I resent that. I lowered the IQ on here by AT LEAST 20 points.

Lol!

[Theoldprofessor]

" ... we’ve had an influx of grade A idiots here"

I strongly reject the inference here. I am a charter member of the Idiots Club, and most of these guys never even show up for the meetings. I'd grade them out at C or C-at best. It's not easy to be incompetent, y'know.

[HRBAKER]

"Wall Licker"

I'm going to have to remember that one.

Thanks John. Worth the stop by.

[mark evans]

I've been lurking since the days of Elliot and don't believe the quality of comments has changed significantly over the years. There's always some off-the-wall stuff and the occasional misfit.

ALL efforts to ferret out fraud in the hobby are a good thing.

I agree with Barry that spelling and grammar are important, as they facilitate accurate communication.

[Rich Klein]

I like the new board, I don't have to worry about using Word before I post.

If there is a typo now, so be it

Rich

[tiger8mush]

Is this what shilling looks like? Bidder -***o(893) 73% bid history with seller and 25 bid retractions? http://www.ebay.com/itm/1990-Topps-414-Frank-Thomas-RC-HOF-NO-NAME-ON-FRONT-NNOF-BGS-8-5-w-9-The-Rarity-/360833085586? I have never been accused of being too bright and hope this is not vicious.:rolleyes:

Its posts like these that catch my attention. It seems that the seller is getting multiple bid retractions from the same bidder and doesn't ban him. Thus why I haven't bid on the seller's auctions in months. I use to bid often with this seller and win on occasion. Thanks for your detective work Mr. North, much appreciated!

[EvilKing00]

It's a forum....you have to learn who's opinion is valuable and who's is not....that usually doesn't take too long to figure out.

I'm new. I ask a lot of questions but I'm not dumb!! :)

Asking questions is the way to get answers, its a sign of being intelligent. I may not be a good speller, but i do ok lol

[baseballart]

Thanks Ken. Not a big deal. I still believe people should write clearly and accurately, even if nobody else agrees.


Barry

I'm waiting for the first post on the importance of the Oxford comma.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Be careful of those "Harvard" commas!:)
For example: I would like to thank my parents, Leon, and Joe O.
Could be a problem if missing that "Oxford" comma.:D

[MattyC]

So Leon and Joe O are your parents? I bet you know a ton about cards and get some sweet review bumps.

[wonkaticket]

What's more insulting are barely decipherable efforts to stop criticism of auction house owners who commit the most obvious fraud, either because of personal friendship or financial motive or even collusion as a consigner. Such actions were offensive when the protected parties were Bill Mastro and Doug Allen and the actions are offensive today. If you don't mind getting ripped off, here's my advice: instead of whining about the posts which call out the frauds, stfu or skip to the next thread. First, no one is forcing you to read them; and second, the efforts to stop the criticism have clearly failed and will never succeed. If you have something to add to the discussion, we all are free to do so. But attempts to stop the discourse are wrong, even if the auction head is your brother, your mother, your hobby friend or your co-conspirator.

Lastly if anyone's feelings were wounded about my observation of the relative IQ of the board, I would hope you know that I was making a larger point and not measuring intelligence.

Huge +1

[itjclarke]

Could someone please send me the Cliff Notes.

Very simple, as we all learned in JHS and HS, just read the first line and move on to the next paragraph if you're in a hurry.

[markf31]

I agree with Barry that spelling and grammar are important, as they facilitate accurate communication.

http://misskellyknowsbest.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/stop_clubbing_baby_seals.jpg

[barrysloate]

That's a good one Mark.:)

[Cardboard Junkie]

Took me a second, but now I get it. Good one!:)

[freakhappy]

YEA!!! I did not make the "idiot" team!

Are you sure??? Check the list again...you did quite well this past year to not make the team!:eek:;)

[Section103]

Grammar - the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.

[Ease]

Grammar - the difference between knowing your shit and knowing you're shit.

Solid.

[brianp-beme]

All I know is I am ready to eat Grandma.


Oops, I may have forgotten a comma.

Brian

[thehoodedcoder]

i could honestly care less about some of that stuff. here is a perfect reason for not caring. accurate communication? what about below do you not understand?:

Cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

now reflect on just how easy that was to read. i bet you will say, i read it way faster than i thought i could.

kevin

[barrysloate]

You're right Kevin, I was able to read that easily. You learn something new every day.

[4815162342]

i could honestly care less about some of that stuff. here is a perfect reason for not caring. accurate communication? what about below do you not understand?:

Cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

now reflect on just how easy that was to read. i bet you will say, i read it way faster than i thought i could.

kevin

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/yaKxRN2LdEI?t=11s" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[EvilKing00]

i could honestly care less about some of that stuff. here is a perfect reason for not caring. accurate communication? what about below do you not understand?:

Cdnuolt blveiee taht I cluod aulaclty uesdnatnrd waht I was rdanieg. The phaonmneal pweor of the hmuan mnid, aoccdrnig to a rscheearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it dseno't mtaetr in waht oerdr the ltteres in a wrod are, the olny iproamtnt tihng is taht the frsit and lsat ltteer be in the rghit pclae. The rset can be a taotl mses and you can sitll raed it whotuit a pboerlm. Tihs is bcuseae the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe. Azanmig huh? yaeh and I awlyas tghuhot slpeling was ipmorantt!

now reflect on just how easy that was to read. i bet you will say, i read it way faster than i thought i could.

kevin

Well said!!!

[buckyball1]

Throwing gas on the flames, but perhaps "couldn't care less"? :)

[HRBAKER]

Correct spelling, grammar and punctuation is so old fashioned.

[npa589]

Throwing gas on the flames, but perhaps "couldn't care less"? :)

You beat me to it :D! It's one of those sayings that has been passed down and around incorrectly. I want to ask: Really? How much less could you care?

[Kenny Cole]

Irregardless

[Cardboard Junkie]

Irregardless

It saddens me to report that "Irregardless" is now in The Random House Dictionary.:(

[Kenny Cole]

Irregardless of that, it still ain't a word. :)

[Cardboard Junkie]

I'm becoming disorientated.:)

[frankbmd]

I'm becoming disorientated.:)

And that's news.:confused:

[Cardboard Junkie]

It's that Vassar bitch again.

[Kenny Cole]

It's that Vassar bitch again.

She probably has some serious physicality

[Cardboard Junkie]

The seventies, Holiday in, that Vassar bitch, too many Hamms beers, (from the land of sky blue waters), it just preys on my mind. Frank, I gotta know what she looks like, but I'm afraid, very afraid.

[frankbmd]

The seventies, Holiday in, that Vassar bitch, too many Hamms beers, (from the land of sky blue waters), it just preys on my mind. Frank, I gotta know what she looks like, but I'm afraid, very afraid.

Sixties, Dave:cool:

[Cardboard Junkie]

Please tell me the late sixties!

[Republicaninmass]

Nailed it. The collective IQ on Net 54 has dropped 15 points in the past 5 years.


I'd call that above average.... since the country itself is down about 20 :p

[Cardboard Junkie]

Not everything is about Vietnam, Walter.

[frankbmd]

Not everything is about Vietnam, Walter.

Right Dave, R & R in Pattaya

[kcohen]

Not everything is about Vietnam, Walter.

We abide the so-called viciousness of the forum as, without it, of what would our lives consist other than this hobby? Probably, the usual, bowling, driving around, and the occasional acid flashback."
.

[Leon]

We abide the so-called viciousness of the forum as, without it, of what would our lives consist other than this hobby? Probably, the usual, bowling, driving around, and the occasional acid flashback."
.

Flashback? Cheapskate!! Send me your address Ken. No need to rely on flashbacks for good times ;).

As far as IQ, if I am one of the 47% does that make mine 47?

[frankbmd]

.... Probably, the usual, bowling, driving around, and the occasional acid flashback."
.

I call my wife "The Ten Pin".
I never hit her.

[bnorth]

I call my wife "The Ten Pin".
I never hit her.

I am with you Frank I do not think a man should hit his wife.
We should be able to hire it done though.:eek::D:D

[Paul S]

I call my wife "The Ten Pin".
I never hit her.

I'll bet you're a righty. Southpaws, like myself, can easily hit the 7 pin when going opposite field. I once had a glass ashtray whiz by my head. After I patched up the wall I knew it was time for divorce:eek: Never threw a beaner.

[frankbmd]

I'll bet you're a righty. Southpaws, like myself, can easily hit the 7 pin when going opposite field. I once had a glass ashtray whiz by my head. After I patched up the wall I knew it was time for divorce:eek: Never threw a beaner.

Paul, when she, "The Ten Pin", kicks back :eek:, it gives a whole new meaning to the need for a "spare" ball.;)

[Paul S]

Paul, when she, "The Ten Pin", kicks back :eek:, it gives a whole new meaning to the need for a "spare" ball.;)

Frank, I once got a Turkey in the 10th frame. Very unnatural.

[Deertick]

I am with you Frank I do not think a man should hit his wife.
We should be able to hire it done though.:eek::D:D

I don't believe in hitting women. I understand it....