Double Strike Tolstoi Project for mrvster

[t206hound]

Just wanted to share this with everyone. Johnny (mrvster) picked up a double strike Tolstoi in a trade that resembled the Fords in this old thread (http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1235317396/last-1235363743). The back is littered with magenta from a T68 test run. Note that the magenta run on the back of the card is upside down (in respect to the T206 front).

The card he got was a Gandil slabbed by SGC as A (multi-strike reverse). Here's the back (flipped upside down):

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/t206hound/t206-gandil/14745/gandil-slabbed-back

Johnny told me that he couldn't figure out who was on the back, but it was probably a T68 based on the earlier thread. At first I thought maybe there were multiple layers of magenta since the entire back had color, and the previous examples clearly showed the "borders" between cards. But then I jumped out of my T206 box and realized that the size and scale of T68 is different from T206.

Still, nothing immediately jumped out at me, but then I saw what looked like an eye above the S in "Cigarettes." I scanned through the T68 set looking for anyone with a big open eye (http://www1.coe.neu.edu/~dan/T68/go.html).

I picked out three, and the one that struck me was Hernando Cortez. The photo Johnny gave me was tilted, so I asked if he had another. He sent me this raw image:

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/t206hound/t206-gandil/14746/gandil-raw-back

It looked like a match, but I didn't know the actual dimensions of a T68. So I just resized until I got what I thought was a match. I don't have any cool imaging software, but I was able to scale the T206 back and overlay what appears to be a match:

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/t206hound/t206-gandil/14748/cortez-front

After checking again, I was pretty sure I had a match, so went ahead with the animation which to me looks like this mystery has been solved. Eyes and nose match; brim of hat matches; shoulder matches; "necklace" matches; neck, hair and background over left shoulder all match:

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/t206hound/t206-gandil/14749/cortez-front

[Pat R]

Great detective work Erick!!!

[wolf441]

Nice work Erick! God, I love threads like these!!! :)

[MuddyMules]

Nice work. There is DEFINITELY more than one pass through the press on the magenta for the make-ready. Check the dots through a loupe. You should be able to find a small magenta dot in the one of the white areas that will appear more than once. Follow that small dot and this should tell you how many times this sheet went through the press. The dots don't lie.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Erick,

This is very cool. Especially the fact that they printed these sets in the same factory, at the same time, and used a scrap sheet of T206 Tolstoi test print paper to run through the printer for the T68 set. I can just see a stack of T206 test printed sheets laying around in the factory waiting to be used as test sheets for the printers.

Thank you so much for sharing this with us.

AndyH


.

[mrvster]

I can NOT BELIEVE you did it~! my friend.....great sleuth work......I AM so Excited right now I could crap my pants:)

This magenta run and card I am so fortunate to own, and would like to thank the collectors who made this possible(I feel like I won an emmy):)

[Jason]

Amazing work Erick.Cool card.

[Gradedcardman]

Great stuff Erick. I felt like Johnny when a Hoblitzell ghost was identified on my Oakes Blank Back. Great stuff !!

[wonkaticket]

Cool a Cortez overprint tough but not as tough as Count Von Moltke OP. :D

[mrvster]

you are awesome:) I love this card! the eyeball so spooky:cool:

[Pat R]

Just a thought and I may be way off base here but with the finding of some
of these non T206 oddities on the backs of T206's if there
are any known full sheets of these non T206 cards couldn't that give us
an idea of the size of the T206 sheets?

[Tobacco&Gum]

Great work Erick! Congrats JV on the mystery being solved, and on picking up the card! One step closer to Wags!

[mrvster]

he killed it on this one , the hound dawg:D

Vin.....you've been so helpful along the way, thanks my friend

[CW]

Very cool, Erick! Yet another cool insight into how these cards were printed. Sweet card, Johnny!

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Very cool

[teetwoohsix]

Just a thought and I may be way off base here but with the finding of some
of these non T206 oddities on the backs of T206's if there
are any known full sheets of these non T206 cards couldn't that give us
an idea of the size of the T206 sheets?

Wow!! Great work Erick, this is amazing!!

Johnny- awesome pick up!! You really hit a home run with this one my friend. You deserve it, and it fits well with your mind blowing collection. :)

Pat- I don't think you are off-base, I actually think you may be on to something.

For awhile I was trying to research press sizes, and I really didn't find enough solid information to start a thread about- meaning any more/new information that anyone else hadn't already come up with. But I learned that the ALC
printed everything from small cigar labels to large size advertisement posters. I was told by the Library of Congress that they were sure they used different size presses, but had no specifics.They told me locating old business records may be the key to finding this information, but that they didn't have any.

This is an amazing discovery in my opinion, one of three known cards that can be placed on this sheet.

Again, great work Erick and congrats Johnny!!

Sincerely, Clayton

[z28jd]

I love that not only is it a double-strike, but one of the shows part of two back ads. Great pickup Johnny and nice detective work

[mrvster]

thanks my friend:)

[t206hound]

I'm very happy for you Johnny. Great card... now you need to buy a companion T68!

[veloce]

Does the fact that T68 (2.25" x 3.375" ?) and T206 (1.4375" x 2.625") can be printed on the same sheet suggest the printed area is some common multiple of those dimensions?
ie. T206 would be arrayed in some multiple of 9 high and 36 across corresponding to 7 T68s high and 23 T68s across?
This would give a sheet size of approx. 24" x 52" (or 48" x 52" if it were 18 T206s high).
36 T206 across should be compatible with some theories about numbers printed in each series, right?


Wow!! Great work Erick, this is amazing!!

Johnny- awesome pick up!! You really hit a home run with this one my friend. You deserve it, and it fits well with your mind blowing collection. :)

Pat- I don't think you are off-base, I actually think you may be on to something.

For awhile I was trying to research press sizes, and I really didn't find enough solid information to start a thread about- meaning any more/new information that anyone else hadn't already come up with. But I learned that the ALC
printed everything from small cigar labels to large size advertisement posters. I was told by the Library of Congress that they were sure they used different size presses, but had no specifics.They told me locating old business records may be the key to finding this information, but that they didn't have any.

This is an amazing discovery in my opinion, one of three known cards that can be placed on this sheet.

Again, great work Erick and congrats Johnny!!

Sincerely, Clayton

[teetwoohsix]

Does the fact that T68 (2.25" x 3.375" ?) and T206 (1.4375" x 2.625") can be printed on the same sheet suggest the printed area is some common multiple of those dimensions?
ie. T206 would be arrayed in some multiple of 9 high and 36 across corresponding to 7 T68s high and 23 T68s across?
This would give a sheet size of approx. 24" x 52" (or 48" x 52" if it were 18 T206s high).
36 T206 across should be compatible with some theories about numbers printed in each series, right?

Hi Rick,

1. It's possible and something to think about.

2. I don't know enough about T68's, or how they were printed (print groups? subjects in a print run? etc...) to know how to answer this question.

3. Yes, compatible with some theories.

Sincerely, Clayton

[mrvster]

man we are brothers and think alike:)....I found 2 on ebay......I'm going to get one, I HAVE TO! It would be a disservice not to get a companion piece like that....COTEZ LOOKS EERIE on the Gandil, HUH?:D Montazuma got some revenge:D

I love that this is sparking the sheet size question again.....Tim, Jim, Chris and a few other experts are a little busy right now, so I think we will hear from them soon I hope....But honestly, Erick Dawg , you pulled this one OFF:D:)

Thanks for all the comments guys....I am obsessed and have been starring at the animation constantly, looks so freakn' AWESOME! by far one of my best pick ups, I owe it all to 2 special friend / collectors who made the trade possible:D

and of course, ERICK THE MAN for cracking this sick back WOW

[mrvster]

Tribute to Erick:) sorry for the crumby pic, but u get the idea:o

had to get the counterpart/perfect match:D

This card, gandil scrap, is just awesome and one of my new favorites:)....thanks to all the collectors helped with this trade...

I'm a history nut and T206 scrap/rarity nut, perfect card for me

just thrilled

thanks again guys

[MVSNYC]

Johnny, that's awesome you got the counterpart card! glad Gandil went to you!

[wonkaticket]

Johnny, very cool! Just for you more than one smiley. :):D;)

[mrvster]

Thank you my friend:)

[t206hound]

Tribute to Erick:) sorry for the crumby pic, but u get the idea:o

had to get the counterpart/perfect match:D



Great to see them together... especially to see the difference in scale. Congrats on a great card! I was happy to help.

[t206blogcom]

Johnny - Cool pickup, congrats!

Erick - Awesome work!

[teetwoohsix]

Congrats Johnny, that's awesome :D

Sincerely, Clayton

[freakhappy]

Well done, team Johnny ;)



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mrvster]

THANKS GUYS!!
Your all part of team freak;)

I'm still excited to own, and almost feel like it's a privilege , to have this card...

fits beautiful in " The Circus"...

Huge thanks to all on team Johnny envolved with this project :D

especially Mike S and Erick, and Hank;)


Erick, thanks so much again for deciphering that, it was really bothering me! my ocd:o you have an incredible eye like Tim and Chris and Jimmy.....

just blew the value of it up by that correlation alone....all I can say is WOW:eek: Thanks So much

[Runscott]

Erick, that's amazing detective work.

[wolf441]

Another great freak Johnny!! And Erick, that was some great detective work. I can't believe that you were able to put the Gandil together with Cortes. Nice match up, Cortes took down the Aztecs, Gandil took down the White Sox!! :D

[mrvster]

Thanks my friend! and Cortez brought down Aztecs , Gandil brings down the sox! :):D

[Craig M.]

This thread is very interesting and I would like to keep it alive by posting some pics as they seem to relate to Johnny's card. I do not own any of these.

[Craig M.]

Here's another one:

[Craig M.]

Another: