1955 Musial Uncut Box Lid

[stlcardsfan]

I have a chance to purchase this item. I'm thinking this is a pretty rare item, it is an uncut lid to a box from a Rawlings Stan Musial glove from 1955. Anyone have any idea of a ballpark value? I've been unable to come up with anything, other than an entire box, lid and glove on Ebay with a buy it now for $15K. Thanks.

[quitcrab]

Buy it and sell it to me ! If you don't buy it give me the lead Thanks. Scott

[Bestdj777]

The 2010 SCD has the complete set of cards at 750 (vg), 1250 (ex), and 2500 (NM) with the complete box at 900 (vg), 1500 (ex) and (3000). Some of the recent auctions indicate that these prices are fairly accurate with complete sets of the cards in "authentic" condition bringing around 500-550. Given that this is not a "complete box" and not just a "complete set," I would imagine the price is somewhat in between the price for each. Not sure the exact formula to adjust it for condition though.

[stlcardsfan]

The 2010 SCD has the complete set of cards at 750 (vg), 1250 (ex), and 2500 (NM) with the complete box at 900 (vg), 1500 (ex) and (3000). Some of the recent auctions indicate that these prices are fairly accurate with complete sets of the cards in "authentic" condition bringing around 500-550. Given that this is not a "complete box" and not just a "complete set," I would imagine the price is somewhat in between the price for each. Not sure the exact formula to adjust it for condition though.

Thanks Chris. Much appreciated.

[toppcat]

That's a really nice item-impressive!

[MBMiller25]

I'm an extensive Musial collector. You can view my site at www.stanmusialmuseum.com. The 1955 Rawlings cut cards are a fairly tough items to find. Boxes in tact make that fairly tough item a bit more difficult. I have never seen an entire panel for sale seperate the box. A complete box depending on the condition and whether or not the glove is present can range anywhere from $500 to $1000 as of late. The nicest example I ever saw was when Bill Mastro's collection was being auctioned off and he had an intact box with glove. It was in very nice condition. I think in your case, there would be more value in actually cutting the cards from the panel. If your careful to cut the cards to size, you can get the cards graded with a numeric grade rather than just authentic. If your able to obtain a numeric grade, you will have a very valuable item, with much interest (including myself). These cards with a numeric grade are VERY difficult to obtain, so there would be some action, should you elect to sell them. I think anything in the $500-$1000 range for the panel is fair, anything below $500 and your doing VERY well.

Good Luck, Let me know how you do.

[stlcardsfan]

Thanks for the feedback everyone. Looking at the PSA pop report, there are very few number graded examples assigned, almost all grade as authentic. As I understand it, all 4 sides need to show the dotted cut lines to achieve a number grade, similar to Bazooka cards. If even one side does not show the dotted line, it will only qualify as authentic. You can tell from the uncut lid that it would be impossible to get a number grade for each card as some of the dotted lines are "shared" by neighboring cards. You would have to pick which cards you wanted to cut to show all lines.

Here are some examples I was able to find after some more digging (and getter google phrasing, thanks Chris):

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=113851&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=10&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1&seo=1955-Rawlings-Stan-Musial-Fielder's-Glove-in-Original-Display-Box-Featuring-Complete-UM9-1-Trading-C


http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=109221&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=110&seo=1955-Rawlings-Stan-Musial-Fielder

http://www.goodwinandco.com/lot-17936.aspx


http://books.google.com/books?id=WSs0DEQyzVkC&pg=PA344&lpg=PA344&dq=1955+rawlings+musial+glove+box&source=bl&ots=NkgXiKZtMK&sig=nYss2nizSq4czCwVV_bhnutA-vs&hl=en&sa=X&ei=jtXSUtOoH67MsQSMk4DwCw&ved=0CHQQ6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=1955%20rawlings%20musial%20glove%20box&f=false

The guy wants $2,000 for it. Appears to be quite a bit high.

[stlcardsfan]

Matt, awesome site. Some incredible cards. I noticed your 63 Bazooka gem mint. Nice cut by someone! Was that you?

[Bestdj777]

Although it might increase the value to cut it and slab it, there is something awesome about the fact is survived 57 years intact.

[brian1961]

If you decide to pay the piper and buy it, think it through carefully as to whether you want to go through the tricky and nerve-wracking ordeal of cutting the cards out. Since the piece has some blemishes and minor creasing here and there, there will be definite problems that may not reward some cards with a high enough numerical grade to warrant YOUR vast investment of money, EVEN IF YOU SUCCESSFULLY CUT THESE DIAMONDS APART!

Technically, there should be some way of cutting them out, whereby each card has a portion of the dashed line border. Splitting hairs, to be sure! What a dilemma. I'd get on the phone to PSA and get a "clear cut" answer from them as to precisely what they would demand to grant each shared-border card a numerical grade. Their standpoint of whatever moves the grader's judgement as to what would have the best eye appeal is much, much too ambiguous to me. Considering what is at stake, coupled with the cost, they should be jolly well explicit so you know precisely what your choices and repercussions are. I hope PSA will somehow be compassionate towards you---ask to speak with Cosetta Robbins. Her reputation at PSA seems to be trustworthy; at the very least, she will find out what you want to know.

You must be able to make an informed decision.

Furthermore, there are collectors, I am sure, that would cherish the piece more by leaving it completely intact. Regional/food connoisseurs sometimes like their package card diamonds in the rough. As is, it makes for a perfect display and conversation piece. I totally agree with Dave Hornish; it IS very impressive, to say the least, if not less.

Wishing you the best. Think it out---what are your ultimate goals for such a piece? Is this a truly qualified opportunity to meet those ultimate goals? Or, does his high price factor in all the ultimate rewards you're dreaming of, but for which you are assuming all the risks?

Remember, he could, or may already has, approached a major auction house such as Robert Edward or Heritage, and they told him of the risks involved that HE would have to assume, and therefore perhaps this was not the automatic gold mine he thought. They may have told him that HE would have to go through the risky route of cutting the cards out, submitting them to a TPG, and THEN the auction house would handle them.

It really boils down to what is to be done with the panel, and who wants to take that irrevocable action of splitting them up.

I apologize for the long discourse. Sure hope you don't feel I just bloviated for half an hour.

----Brian Powell

[hammer]

Buy it and keep it intact that is a great item.

[Stonepony]

I too would keep it intact, it's amazing

[stlcardsfan]

If you decide to pay the piper and buy it, think it through carefully as to whether you want to go through the tricky and nerve-wracking ordeal of cutting the cards out. Since the piece has some blemishes and minor creasing here and there, there will be definite problems that may not reward some cards with a high enough numerical grade to warrant YOUR vast investment of money, EVEN IF YOU SUCCESSFULLY CUT THESE DIAMONDS APART!

Technically, there should be some way of cutting them out, whereby each card has a portion of the dashed line border. Splitting hairs, to be sure! What a dilemma. I'd get on the phone to PSA and get a "clear cut" answer from them as to precisely what they would demand to grant each shared-border card a numerical grade. Their standpoint of whatever moves the grader's judgement as to what would have the best eye appeal is much, much too ambiguous to me. Considering what is at stake, coupled with the cost, they should be jolly well explicit so you know precisely what your choices and repercussions are. I hope PSA will somehow be compassionate towards you---ask to speak with Cosetta Robbins. Her reputation at PSA seems to be trustworthy; at the very least, she will find out what you want to know.

You must be able to make an informed decision.

Furthermore, there are collectors, I am sure, that would cherish the piece more by leaving it completely intact. Regional/food connoisseurs sometimes like their package card diamonds in the rough. As is, it makes for a perfect display and conversation piece. I totally agree with Dave Hornish; it IS very impressive, to say the least, if not less.

Wishing you the best. Think it out---what are your ultimate goals for such a piece? Is this a truly qualified opportunity to meet those ultimate goals? Or, does his high price factor in all the ultimate rewards you're dreaming of, but for which you are assuming all the risks?

Remember, he could, or may already has, approached a major auction house such as Robert Edward or Heritage, and they told him of the risks involved that HE would have to assume, and therefore perhaps this was not the automatic gold mine he thought. They may have told him that HE would have to go through the risky route of cutting the cards out, submitting them to a TPG, and THEN the auction house would handle them.

It really boils down to what is to be done with the panel, and who wants to take that irrevocable action of splitting them up.

I apologize for the long discourse. Sure hope you don't feel I just bloviated for half an hour.

----Brian Powell

Thanks Brian, and everyone for the feedback. I have made an offer to the seller which he is considering.

My first inclination would be to keep it intact and just hold onto it. I based my offer on that idea as opposed to cutting it up and submitting to a TPG. I'll let everyone know what happens!

Thanks again

[brian1961]

The graded card community should really learn to think outside the box, in an instance such as this. Common thinking says that only numerical grades deserve any respect, as well as thick wads of cash. Ever since third party grading of trading cards was instituted over 20 years ago, the AUTHENTIC rating has connoted a genuine downgrade. However, this is an instance where the hobby needs to mature and wake up to the fact that sometimes the whole is indeed worth more than the sum of the individual parts. Here we have the entire Rawlings Musial set, all together as they were originally issued, divided only by dashed lines but mind you, truly a complete set. In 1955, there were so few other trading cards of any kind of Mr. Musial.

The more I think about it, I agree with you. Definitely, if you wind up owning it, do not take a cropping tool to it. That Musial piece is special, befitting of any top ten of THE MAN. It is so visually attractive, most unusual, and by any stretch of the imagination, it should not have survived intact. But it did survive intact.

Obviously, either PSA or SGC should authenticate it. When choosing, decide who will make the panel look its best. In this case, I would go with SGC because their black insert will be custom-made to fit the panel. With SGC it shan't slide around, 'ol boy, and that is important. There are cases where a PSA-graded card looks absolutely A-ok with extra room, but I question whether PSA has a holder appropriate for that panel. Several years back, I made the trek to the Chicago suburbs for the 2008 National Convention. I wanted to get a treasured item graded-- a virtually unique 1962 JELL-O Mickey Mantle complete box, unfolded no less. The flavor? The rarest, APPLE. Sadly, PSA wouldn't touch it at the time, but if I cut it out, they would be pleased to grade it. It did not require much deliberation on my part to nix that notion. After some consultation and pleading, SGC authenticated it. Let me tell you, that Mantle piece looks terrific in SGC's holder. With all the JELL-O graphics, its trading card promotion blurb on the front, and Mickey's card, the piece is devastatingly attractive. That Stan Musial box top would likewise look best, and I believe, more valuable, in its natural state.

Picture an All-State display case with a well-arranged portfolio of Stan Musial items. I can guarantee the 1955 Rawlings Stan Musial trading card panel set will hold its own with any other Musial card, though it might fall shy of a '53 Hunters Wieners panel or a '55 Hunters Musial flap card, which I'll never get to own. Very, very few own such Hunters, but that's beside the point. Assuredly, a complete Rawlings panel would not fail to impress--every time you show it or mention it on the board to any collectors with a decent amount of knowledge. And if perchance they don't know its significance, you'll have loads of fun enlightening them!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A rare opportunity has come your way, which I'm sure you will always remember. I sincerely hope the outcome brings a smile to you every time you think about it.

I must say those are swell-looking cards of Stan The Man.

I salute you, my fellow collecting warrior. ---Brian Powell;)

[Exhibitman]

I don't think I'd cut it. I have nothing against it per se, but nearly every card has wear or damage that is going to knock it down from a top grade anyway, so why bother?

If you decide to cut it, I'd suggest buying a really good flat rotary cutter. I have a Swingline SmartCut at the office that does a great job on items like the box lid. I've used it to clean up raggedy-edged strip cards and they look great. I purchased the 12" model for under $100. They make one that can handle an item up to 24" tall for around $300.

[Volod]

...hmmm, money vs beauty - i guess, as Marx (Groucho) observed, "everything is political."

[stlcardsfan]

Still waiting on seller's reply to my offer. He was supposed to get back with me yesterday.

Here's a current complex box with lid and glove on Ebay. Pretty rough.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/westestates/m.html?item=231136005373&pt=US_Baseball&hash=item35d0c78cfd&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

[ALR-bishop]

...sure outed that seller's other auction items. We may be the only people who ever see them :)

[Cliff Bowman]

Still waiting on seller's reply to my offer. He was supposed to get back with me yesterday.

Here's a current complex box with lid and glove on Ebay. Pretty rough.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/westestates/m.html?item=231136005373&pt=US_Baseball&hash=item35d0c78cfd&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562
That is one sweet glove in the complete Musial box. Too bad I'm left handed.

[brian1961]

STLCARDSFAN ----unless you offered the eBay vendor something paltry, which I seriously doubt, he probably should accept your offer. Our excitement over the piece, if he is reading these lines, does not translate to droves of people who would go nuts over it. And pay a king's ransom for it. Not this time!

I hope he puts 2 and 2 together, and comes up with a sold 4 you.

--Brian:o

[stlcardsfan]

Alas, there will be no deal. The seller still thinks his item is worth $2,000. He said that if he decides to sell I will be his first call. Huh? Why did you list the item?

He also mentioned he formerly lived in China and might be looking to move back, and would liquidate assets to do so. Armed with all of this information, you would probably surmise where I found this item. Yes, Craigslist.

Thanks everyone for your interest and input.

[ALR-bishop]

Sorry you did not get it

China is a great place to visit, been there 3 times...Beijing, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Xian and Macau. But would not want to live there, even if I was Chinese :)

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/HongKong2Macau050_zpsf5036c89.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/HongKong2Macau027_zps52a60047.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/HongKong2Macau019_zps547b7800.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/CD7188EA-F096-4996-81C0-000229C89FBD-2439-000003F10A4F3256_zps914b64de.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/7F8B4232-ABA9-43D5-881E-C4DB54EC0251-2439-000003F107B7A375_zps44c0f1a9.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/XianBeijingHongKong214.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/XianBeijingHongKong057.jpg

[stlcardsfan]

Great pictures Al!

[David W]

Was the Terracotta Army as awesome to see in person as the picture would seem to imply?

[brian1961]

stlcardsfan----I feel just awful you were refused on the Rawlings Stan Musial piece. I probably should have just kept my big mouth shut until you secured it. I wonder if another hundred bucks would unlock it for you. The vender needs to understand that his beautiful item is not pristine, and while valuable, it does not quite add up to BANZAI. Then again, I don't know your offer, and I am not asking. Again, I am sincerely sorry. ---Brian



Al, that disturbing photo of all those beings reminded me of the second Flash Gordon serial involving the Clay People.

[ALR-bishop]

They are an awesome sight. Only a small portion of the army has been excavated. They have stopped the process until they have an effective means to prevent the colorful paints that cover all the statutes when unearthed from immediately dissipating when exposed to the atmosphere. They have repainted some so you can see what they looked like originally