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wonkaticket
12-24-2013, 01:35 AM
With the recent poster fun thread and taking some time to reflect this evening on the hobby as I look over my collection and scan some new goodies. I couldnít help but wonder do we get what we deserve?

We are filled with a hobby of folks who seem to be hell bent on trying every angle to make a buck from fraud, creative games and write ups to straight shill bidding. Yet a lot of us seem to come back for more abuse. I know, I know cards trumps all. Hell Iím guilty myself of swallowing that gag reflex and placing bids with folks I wouldnít give cab fare to our let watch my sandwich while I went to take a leak.

For me though a start has to begin somewhere. For many years there was no clear line to start but thatís begun to change IMO. The FBI has taken great strides to begin to try and clean up this mess for us. Many collectors have begun to get involved as well to do what they can to help.

Also were starting to see some good folks enter the fray among the sharks and wolves to set up little safe havens of just straight good old honest auctions. Brian Dwyer kicked it off with Sterling, Lee picked up the ball and ran with it very well. Our own Al Crisafulli fired up Love of the Game. Both of these guys have no nonsense write ups great images and well laid out auctions for a myriad of collectors taste.

So in 2014 maybe we as collectors perhaps should start to look to others to consign/bid with you know try a new flavor vs. stomaching the bad taste that is many of these guys. Are all the big boys bad no not at all. Iím also sure everyone has a problem with somebody thatís a given. But we as collectors should begin to take note of the ones who continue their shenanigans, and begin to turn our business to those looking to get back to basics. I know wishful thinking! :)

It may very well be back to the scumbags and conmen in 2014. But hey itís that time of year where optimism begins to blossom so why not think about it.

For me how hard can this business be, you donít need games and tactics. Just some decent stuff a few good scans, honest write ups and commitment to your customers.

If the person youíre thinking of doing business with doesnít have that philosophy you may want think again before you start sending checks.

Feel free to tear the above apart now. :)

Cheers,

John

barrysloate
12-24-2013, 06:32 AM
Hey John- The only way to stop these guys is to refuse to do business with them. But nobody will agree to do that so long as the auction house has something they need. That's the nature of the beast, and the auction houses know it.

edhans
12-24-2013, 09:14 AM
Well stated, John. Here's to the continued success of the "little" auction houses like Lee's, Al's, and Leon and Scott's.

calvindog
12-24-2013, 09:21 AM
The only thing that can stop these fraudsters is indictments. A guy like Josh Evans who knows full well what has gone on with Mastro et al about to go to jail cannot be dissuaded from committing fraud in his own auction.

Exhibitman
12-24-2013, 09:32 AM
That was a very nice piece John.

I think the focus has to be on consignors. If the crooked AHs don't get the items we won't be tempted to bid with them. I am selling off a lot over the next few years (college approaches) and I am sending things only to auctioneers I respect: Sterling, LOTG, B&L and I would not hesitate to deal with Hakes or Heritage either. I have started ebay consignments as well with davidbvintage. I might not make as much with an honest AH in the short term as with a crook but at least I can sleep at night.

wolf441
12-24-2013, 09:34 AM
Also were starting to see some good folks enter the fray among the sharks and wolves to set up little safe havens of just straight good old honest auctions. Brian Dwyer kicked it off with Sterling, Lee picked up the ball and ran with it very well. Our own Al Crisafulli fired up Love of the Game. Both of these guys have no nonsense write ups great images and well laid out auctions for a myriad of collectors taste.


Cheers,

John

+1, I couldn't agree more. I love the job that Lee does with Sterling and that Al does with LOTG. I'd also single out Leon & Co for B&L's offerings as well as Joe's Vintage Sports Cards bi-weekly auctions. There are also quite a few nice, honest, sometimes hilarious folks on the B/S/T pages here on Net54. I know it's tougher for the collectors looking for big ticket items, but for a small time collector like me, there are a bunch of good places to choose from. So, it's certainly not all doom & gloom. If it was, I don't think most of us would stick around despite it being about the cards. A large part of the fun is the interaction with sellers and in learning new facts on a daily basis here on the board!

Happy holidays everyone and best of luck with your 2014 collecting endeavors!!

Steve

MVSNYC
12-24-2013, 09:41 AM
Nice post John. As you & others above have mentioned, it falls to us as consignors. Over the years, i've consigned to almost every single AH, most have been good experiences, but over the last year & a half i've consigned to every single one of Al's auctions (including his upcoming one), he's as solid as it gets. I've also consigned w/ B&L, great experience there as well.

Leon
12-24-2013, 09:59 AM
Thanks for the thread John...And thanks for the kind words about B and L, guys. Unfortunately some of the cards we all scurry for can only be found in some auctions that we might not otherwise frequent. It is next to impossible, if not impossible, to get addicts to not bid. I am guilty as charged too. If I saw a D351 or D355, Snowden could have it and I would be bargaining with him :).

Scott B and I do appreciate the support we have gotten from the collecting community and the board. We sent a good batch of cards to SGC yesterday which will appear in our next auction. (coming in later Feb)

atx840
12-24-2013, 10:52 AM
Nice thread John. I've only consigned to B&L and LOTG and try to bid with AHs who run with integrity....unfortunately sometimes the card & want factor trump the conscience.

As a board if we consign to the short list of reputable AHs and provide quality items, bidders will notice, hammer prices will go up, leading to more consignments and auction by auction they will chip away the business from the fraudsters.

drcy
12-24-2013, 12:53 PM
Just remember, you can't spend in Hell what you overcharged on shipping. Or at least the nachos you can purchase there are really bad-- over dry and salty and too many beans.

familytoad
12-24-2013, 08:20 PM
Hell equals salty nachos...Wise words to live by David...very wise indeed.

:p

Runscott
12-24-2013, 09:49 PM
.....

GregMitch34
12-24-2013, 10:30 PM
Leon, I wouldn't put down Snowden, he might leak all of the shill bids from the past three years at any moment.

jcmtiger
12-24-2013, 10:40 PM
I really would like some real facts for each Auction House that is being blasted. Not personal bias, but facts. I have consigned to a couple of Auction houses and was happy with both. I know there are 1 or 2 posters who hate 1 or 2 auction houses. Please post the truths, not just your personal bias for the auction house. Please do not bring Mastro into the conversation although I have consigned to them in the past, maybe before their problems.

joe

btcarfagno
12-25-2013, 12:00 AM
Hell equals salty nachos...Wise words to live by David...very wise indeed.

:p

And beans. Lots of beans in hell sounds like a recipe for disaster.

Tom C

bobbyw8469
12-25-2013, 07:34 AM
Does anyone still bid or deal with American Memorabilia?? Didn't they have a major problem with not paying consignors at all? It amazes me that someone could even get consignments at all after doing people like that!

drcy
12-25-2013, 01:34 PM
I don't even know if AM is still around today, but after their troubles they didn't directly auction stuff on their sight. It was a bit like eBay in that major dealers posted and sold their stuff on the site and you bought from those dealers. Maybe that's for the better because by one point I heard AM had troubles paying what they owe their consignors.

calvindog
12-25-2013, 01:38 PM
I really would like some real facts for each Auction House that is being blasted. Not personal bias, but facts. I have consigned to a couple of Auction houses and was happy with both. I know there are 1 or 2 posters who hate 1 or 2 auction houses. Please post the truths, not just your personal bias for the auction house. Please do not bring Mastro into the conversation although I have consigned to them in the past, maybe before their problems.

joe

Joe -- why don't you ask Josh if he's engaged in shill bidding in his auctions and get back to us? If he denies it why don't you ask him to sue me for libel?

drmondobueno
12-25-2013, 03:18 PM
Joe -- why don't you ask Josh if he's engaged in shill bidding in his auctions and get back to us? If he denies it why don't you ask him to sue me for libel?

OK, I give. Who is Josh?

HRBAKER
12-25-2013, 05:08 PM
Until a significant amount of spenders are prepared to stop bidding AND consigning I wouldn't look for much to change. It's the deny yourself part that's tough and that they count on us not being able/willing to do.

jcmtiger
12-25-2013, 06:29 PM
OK, I give. Who is Josh?

Josh Evans is the Leland auction house founder.

Joe

wonkaticket
12-26-2013, 01:34 AM
I really would like some real facts for each Auction House that is being blasted. Not personal bias, but facts. I have consigned to a couple of Auction houses and was happy with both. I know there are 1 or 2 posters who hate 1 or 2 auction houses. Please post the truths, not just your personal bias for the auction house. Please do not bring Mastro into the conversation although I have consigned to them in the past, maybe before their problems.

joe


http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=180508

Here you go Joe in case you missed it facts no bias....

jcmtiger
12-26-2013, 08:19 PM
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=180508

Here you go Joe in case you missed it facts no bias....

No did not miss it, I have been following that thread also.
I will say the way things are going there will be no auction houses that we can trust, even the ones that are called honest right now by the NET54 Forum. Remember In past years Mastro and Lelands were trusted at one time.

Collectors are losing faith in EBAY and EBAY Auction sites faster than they did with the Auction Houses. So that will be the next to fall. Then we will be back to selling and trading by collectors which worked well in the past. I guess that won't be so bad.
Joe

tbob
12-27-2013, 04:54 PM
Thanks for the thread John...And thanks for the kind words about B and L, guys. Unfortunately some of the cards we all scurry for can only be found in some auctions that we might not otherwise frequent. It is next to impossible, if not impossible, to get addicts to not bid. I am guilty as charged too. If I saw a D351 or D355, Snowden could have it and I would be bargaining with him :).

Scott B and I do appreciate the support we have gotten from the collecting community and the board. We sent a good batch of cards to SGC yesterday which will appear in our next auction. (coming in later Feb)

+1. Sometimes you have to dance with the devil to get the cards you need which are only available in auctions you would prefer to avoid.
I'll echo the sentiments about B&L, solid service and a nice selection of cards. I'm glad someone added Joe's auctions, along with Lee's and Al's to the list of good auctions and good people to deal with.

kcohen
12-27-2013, 05:41 PM
No did not miss it, I have been following that thread also.
I will say the way things are going there will be no auction houses that we can trust, even the ones that are called honest right now by the NET54 Forum. Remember In past years Mastro and Lelands were trusted at one time.

Collectors are losing faith in EBAY and EBAY Auction sites faster than they did with the Auction Houses. So that will be the next to fall. Then we will be back to selling and trading by collectors which worked well in the past. I guess that won't be so bad.
Joe

All of this sturm und drang would be worth it, at least for me, if it resulted in the revival of regional and local card shows. It' s a much more fun side of the hobby.

slidekellyslide
12-27-2013, 06:39 PM
All of this sturm und drang would be worth it, at least for me, if it resulted in the revival of regional and local card shows. It' s a much more fun side of the hobby.

Unless you live in flyover country like me. :(

jcmtiger
12-28-2013, 01:16 AM
Unless you live in flyover country like me. :(

Yes Dan sorry for you, I made many trips form Vegas to Michigan and Michigan to Vegas, not much in Nebraska except that Steer smell:D

Joe

Jeffrompa
12-28-2013, 08:31 AM
I never thought about these Auction House problems and shilling very much until recently ( mostly because of the News and reading in here ) My family operated a Mail Postcard auction for over 30 years and I never suspected any kind of wrong doing but is always possible. The auctions were always blind auctions in which the sellers did not know what lots were theirs but it is possible they bid them up always from the description . Takes me back in time for sure .

Ease
12-28-2013, 08:46 AM
I never thought about these Auction House problems and shilling very much until recently ( mostly because of the News and reading in here ) My family operated a Mail Postcard auction for over 30 years and I never suspected any kind of wrong doing but is always possible. The auctions were always blind auctions in which the sellers did not know what lots were theirs but it is possible they bid them up always from the description . Takes me back in time for sure .

Wow 30 years in postcards, I bet you saw some cool ones over the years, baseball and otherwise! What are some of the most interesting interesting ones you've ever seen? Sorry OT a bit...

Jeffrompa
12-28-2013, 09:09 AM
We owned and sold all of the best . We sold 1 million postcards in 1990 . Lots of Rose's , RPPC's , Wolverine Press , Deitsch ( most likely some one of a kind cards also ) everything really . Sad to say I was not into the hobby back then and the cards were not of interest to me . Thats a big regret now .

slidekellyslide
12-28-2013, 09:54 AM
Yes Dan sorry for you, I made many trips form Vegas to Michigan and Michigan to Vegas, not much in Nebraska except that Steer smell:D

Joe

That's the smell of money$$$...or at least that's what they tell us around here. :D

Leon
12-28-2013, 09:59 AM
We owned and sold all of the best . We sold 1 million postcards in 1990 . Lots of Rose's , RPPC's , Wolverine Press , Deitsch ( most likely some one of a kind cards also ) everything really . Sad to say I was not into the hobby back then and the cards were not of interest to me . Thats a big regret now .

Hey Jeff
Knowing a tiny bit about your Dad, and the work he did in the postcard arena, I can only imagine what went through ya'lls hands.

For those that might not know, Jeff's dad, Dr.James Lowe, almost invented postcard collecting some 50 yrs ago. He coined the now common postcard collecting term, deltiology. He wrote and co-authored many books on the subject and is a wonderful human being from the few times we spoke and what I have learned. If you look at about the 2nd or 3rd little section down in this link, under United States, you will see the books he wrote, along with his best friend and Baseball Card Collecting Pioneer, Walt Corson...

http://www.postcard.co.uk/clubww.php


And lastly, Jeff and his Dad auctioned (ebay) some N167s many years ago and I picked up one of the nicest of the group. That is how Jeff came to know of the board (I believe) and how I came into contact with his Dad. It is through his Dad that I was able to acquire a lot of Corson's collecting notes and checklists, which I sometimes display.....this was Corson's 1950 Book Of Checklists, by Charles Bray......

http://luckeycards.com/pobraychecklistbook.jpg

http://luckeycards.com/pobraychecklistpage1.jpg

barrysloate
12-28-2013, 11:21 AM
Great story Leon.

slidekellyslide
12-28-2013, 02:54 PM
Very cool!!! Aside from collecting baseball memorabilia I also collect postcards and have quite a few 1950s postcard collector magazines...I'll have to peruse them to look for Jeff's dad.

Jeffrompa
12-29-2013, 01:03 AM
Yes it is all correct Leon . Only two things you did not know was someone tipped me off to the board while the auction for those N167's was going ( it was fun reading all the comments ) and my Dad insists those came from someone in Florida but wasn't really sure .

I guess the lesson is find interests early in life because I did not have a big interest in collecting now i regret not holding on to some great things . It's been a long strange trip as they say .

queencitysportscards
12-30-2013, 12:16 PM
We are preparing a new division of Hartland...Hartland Auctions. Our team has been working on this over the past year. We will be offering original Hartland figures, vintage baseball cards, iconic sports memorabilia, autographs and more. Stay tuned on the board as we will advertise and look forward to our launch in 2014.

www.hartlandllc.com