New Guy from NC

[Tobacco206]

Hey, guys just wanted to post up and say hi. Just found this site last night and added it to my other T206 type websites on my laptop. Even though i'm 44 i spend my child hood collecting comics and as a adult still collect and have setup at shows up and down the coast for years. But i have always like cards my whole life so at my late age i decide to dive into learning more about the T206 card set and start buying.. Right now it still is overwhelming with all the backs, and all the ways people tend to collect (like subsets,team sets, backs, hof, poses, ).. i just dont know where to start and i'll be the first to say i need HELP. i havnt been to shows in years for cards and really were told by my fellow comic dealers horror storys about the hobby dieing off a few years ago, but i dont care if so or not.
hoping to get to know people,< looking for Ted from the old site<< hes seems a wealth of info.

with comics there is a price guide, and i'm finding prices with t206 stuff all over the place.

2 questions i hope everyone will give there options of<<<<

do most or should i buy non graded or graded ? i plan to buy g-vg range for myself.

is there a ballpark the commoms are priced at just so i can keep in mind for reference when buying??

any 101 school help or gameplan type help would be most helpful.

thx and email me if you want GUY

[wazoo]

You can find really nice looking commons from good to very good condition easily from $20 -$30. Sometimes even $15. Commons are pretty affordable.


Welcome aboard by the way!

[Tobacco206]

You can find really nice looking commons from good to very good condition easily from $20 -$30. Sometimes even $15. Commons are pretty affordable.


Welcome aboard by the way!

thnx, could i ask what you collect condition wise as a whole??? graded or not??

guess i should have ask everyone that more as a Poll type question as i would like to know .

[wazoo]

It's all good. My collection is all over the place. The majority of my cards are graded, but I've bought most of my cards raw and submitted them. about 20 percent of my collection is raw. I'm almost at 100 t206s :). For the rare backs, I usually stick with lower grades because I can afford them. Commons on the other hand are good because you can get a nice looking PSA 5/SGC60 for about $90-$110, depending on the player, eye appeal, and how sharp the corners are of course.

[mrvster]

YOU picked the right/best set to collect:)....T206 are it......inmho....we will help.....it seems a little intimidating at first, but we will all help....

check out T206resource.com is you haven't already....

we will all help you.....if you want, email or pm me anytime

Peace

Johnny V

[CW]

welcome to the board and good luck with your collecting goals!

Some basic stuff:

1. collect what you like, with emphasis on the YOU.

2. once you start off, don't be afraid or hesitant to change directions if that's where it takes you. You might start off liking a subset, but then that morphs into a new subset. Just have fun with it!

3. If you're going the graded route, two sites that can help with pricing are:

http://www.vintagecardprices.com/

http://www.cardtarget.com/

[Tobacco206]

welcome to the board and good luck with your collecting goals!

Some basic stuff:

1. collect what you like, with emphasis on the YOU.

2. once you start off, don't be afraid or hesitant to change directions if that's where it takes you. You might start off liking a subset, but then that morphs into a new subset. Just have fun with it!

3. If you're going the graded route, two sites that can help with pricing are:

http://www.vintagecardprices.com/

http://www.cardtarget.com/


thx, that sounds good. i'll be sure to check those sites out.. that is a big fear, overpaying for a common card or buying a fake or trimmed card.

[slipk1068]

Fun set for sure :)

The only advice I can give is:

1) It is a marathon NOT a sprint. Be patient and wait for the right card at the right price. Unless you start getting into tough backs, most of the set is not rare.

2) If you choose to buy graded, I find that currently a typical common in PSA/SGC graded 3 should cost in the $30-40 range. Anything less than that is a bargain.

3) Read Scot Readers work "Inside T206"

Have fun and good luck

[freakhappy]

Welcome! You will find this site very helpful information and collecting wise. I suggest using the archive to look up several topics that you might be curious about, etc.,

Everyone gave spot on advice and Chuck really hit it on the head with #1 and #2...let those two absorb because they are the truth!

Good luck on your quest and don't be shy about asking questions and such!

[Bocabirdman]

You have found THE board for all things Pre-War and T206 in specific. Welcome.:)

The only suggestions that I can make are:

1 Enjoy the ride.
2 Collect whatever and however YOU like

and most importantly...

3 Only chase cardboard on days that end in "Y'.:D

[the 'stache]

Welcome to the forum, Guy!

I think with regards to your grading vs ungraded question, it really comes down to how comfortable you feel with buying ungraded. If you've got a good feel for what the cards look like, and feel like, then by all means you can do one or the other, or both. Before I jumped into the T206 set, I spent a good amount of time learning about the ins and outs. I, too, was concerned about buying cards that were inauthentic.

The advice I give to every new collector is that you should first buy some of the tools you'll need to help you protect yourself. A good jeweler's loupe (10x is fine), a black light, and a good scanner. Get yourself a T206 card to use as your baseline, and buy it from somebody on the forum, or one of the reputable dealers listed on the links section. It doesn't have to be expensive, and if it's a little beat up, all the better. Look at it up close. Use your loupe to see what the printing technology on an authentic T206 card looks like, and whenever you buy a new card in the future, compare that card to it.

Over time, you'll become more comfortable with identifying cards as authentic. Things like uniform corner wear, slight registration issues, etc will become second nature to you. You will get a feel to pretty much look at a card, and have a good idea immediately if you're looking at something to add to your collection, or something to avoid. And if you ever have questions, scan the card, post pictures here, and ask for help. There are a lot of incredible, very knowledgeable collectors here who will help you.

Remember, too, if you buy graded cards, to buy the card, and not the grade. All a graded card is is somebody's opinion. Look at the card itself, and don't make any assumptions. Apply the same skepticism to a graded card that you would an ungraded card. If the slab says it's a PSA 4, does it exhibit the kind of wear you'd expect from a PSA 4? Check the slab for signs of tampering. Do you see any out of the ordinary frosting on the slab? Is the slab easy to bend, or is it stiff.

Figure out how you want to collect the set, and as has already been mentioned, don't worry about changing direction. Once you've been collecting a while, it's perfectly natural to change your mind. I started off buying SGC 40 graded cards, and I've discovered not too long ago that I like a little higher grade. I'll upgrade some of the ones I have later, but for now, I'm looking at a PSA 4/SGC 50 as my baseline.

Just remember to have fun, and never be afraid to ask questions. I'm the biggest newbie there is on this forum, and nobody's chased me away yet :) Remember that a lot of the questions you'll have, others had when they started out. And they'll likely already have been discussed here. Use the search function, or Google, to find your answer. If you can't locate what you need, fire away.

Feel free to shoot me any questions you might have. I check this place once a day, and I'm happy to share the knowledge I've gained in the year since joining Net 54.

Good luck!

Bill

[Koufax32fan]

This is all really good information. Can you please give us some more information about the use of a blacklight (or point us to a good thread that has more of that information). I just spent 2 minutes on ebay and see some really inexpensive blacklights ($7 is cheap in mind - especially when people I know spend that much on a cup of coffee). If I have a blacklight - what do I look for? What is the best way to use it?

[CardTarget]

Welcome. I started collecting T206's 6 years ago and I'm 125 cards in right now. It's definitely a marathon, especially on a budget.

[ethicsprof]

welcome aboard!!!
all the best,
barry

[the 'stache]

This is all really good information. Can you please give us some more information about the use of a blacklight (or point us to a good thread that has more of that information). I just spent 2 minutes on ebay and see some really inexpensive blacklights ($7 is cheap in mind - especially when people I know spend that much on a cup of coffee). If I have a blacklight - what do I look for? What is the best way to use it?

Hello, Mike.

Here's an outstanding guide written by David Cycleback, a member of Net 54:

http://www.cycleback.com/blacklight/

That's really all you need. Hope that helps ya!

Bill

[Koufax32fan]

Bill,

Thank you very much - very helpful!

Mike

[Tobacco206]

Welcome to the forum, Guy!

I think with regards to your grading vs ungraded question, it really comes down to how comfortable you feel with buying ungraded. If you've got a good feel for what the cards look like, and feel like, then by all means you can do one or the other, or both. Before I jumped into the T206 set, I spent a good amount of time learning about the ins and outs. I, too, was concerned about buying cards that were inauthentic.

The advice I give to every new collector is that you should first buy some of the tools you'll need to help you protect yourself. A good jeweler's loupe (10x is fine), a black light, and a good scanner. Get yourself a T206 card to use as your baseline, and buy it from somebody on the forum, or one of the reputable dealers listed on the links section. It doesn't have to be expensive, and if it's a little beat up, all the better. Look at it up close. Use your loupe to see what the printing technology on an authentic T206 card looks like, and whenever you buy a new card in the future, compare that card to it.

Over time, you'll become more comfortable with identifying cards as authentic. Things like uniform corner wear, slight registration issues, etc will become second nature to you. You will get a feel to pretty much look at a card, and have a good idea immediately if you're looking at something to add to your collection, or something to avoid. And if you ever have questions, scan the card, post pictures here, and ask for help. There are a lot of incredible, very knowledgeable collectors here who will help you.

Remember, too, if you buy graded cards, to buy the card, and not the grade. All a graded card is is somebody's opinion. Look at the card itself, and don't make any assumptions. Apply the same skepticism to a graded card that you would an ungraded card. If the slab says it's a PSA 4, does it exhibit the kind of wear you'd expect from a PSA 4? Check the slab for signs of tampering. Do you see any out of the ordinary frosting on the slab? Is the slab easy to bend, or is it stiff.

Figure out how you want to collect the said, and as has already been mentioned, don't worry about changing direction. Once you've been collecting a while, it's perfectly natural to change your mind. I started off buying SGC 40 graded cards, and I've discovered not too long ago that I like a little higher grade. I'll upgrade some of the ones I have later, but for now, I'm looking at a PSA 4/SGC 50 as my baseline.

Just remember to have fun, and never be afraid to ask questions. I'm the biggest newbie there is on this forum, and nobody's chased me away yet :) Remember that a lot of the questions you'll have, others had when they started out. And they'll likely already have been discussed here. Use the search function, or Google, to find your answer. If you can't locate what you need, fire away.

Feel free to shoot me any questions you might have. I check this place once a day, and I'm happy to share the knowledge I've gained in the year since joining Net 54.

Good luck!

Bill


First off, great to be here and thx to all the different guys that have jumped in and welcomed me here.

Bill, great info and yes i have tons of questions if you could cover a few out of your reply. So hope these dont sound dumb but i'll ask for the sake of knowing. i plan to take in alot of local shows here in NC and hope to attend some of the big shows.

1. should i expect to see people using loupe and blacklights at shows.
2. can you recommend a good loupe and light brand or place to find those.
3. on graded, stiff or not stiff cases? i take it you mean for tampering: but to look for what or which is good?
4. ballpark- much fake T206 raw stuff out there? at worry about at shows, internet?
5. backs- any list or order as to easy to hard to locate that is correct? should i expect to ast least be able to locate all backs ( already like the brights,Uzit,lenox, and really like the TOLSTOI )
6. in regards to graded cards,, and i dont see or understand the "AUTH" stuff. is it better than a raw but less than the asigned grades of 1,2,3,4 and so on?

i plan to start the day after Christmas and hope to log a place here as a report with every card as i pick them up. My biggest problem so far is there's way to much info to read here and a ton of other sites to get info,, head spins <LOL. i know just starting i've got to make contacts at shows and here as a way to find honest people,dealers to buy from.. and so that i can also start to build a rep as a buyer. I HOPE to buy a few or small groups at a time, dont really mind either raw or graded just nice eye appealing cards that are REAL. Anyway thats a little more info from me and some questions .

thx Guy

[the 'stache]

First off, great to be here and thx to all the different guys that have jumped in and welcomed me here.

Bill, great info and yes i have tons of questions if you could cover a few out of your reply. So hope these dont sound dumb but i'll ask for the sake of knowing. i plan to take in alot of local shows here in NC and hope to attend some of the big shows.

1. should i expect to see people using loupe and blacklights at shows.
2. can you recommend a good loupe and light brand or place to find those.
3. on graded, stiff or not stiff cases? i take it you mean for tampering: but to look for what or which is good?
4. ballpark- much fake T206 raw stuff out there? at worry about at shows, internet?
5. backs- any list or order as to easy to hard to locate that is correct? should i expect to ast least be able to locate all backs ( already like the brights,Uzit,lenox, and really like the TOLSTOI )
6. in regards to graded cards,, and i dont see or understand the "AUTH" stuff. is it better than a raw but less than the asigned grades of 1,2,3,4 and so on?

i plan to start the day after Christmas and hope to log a place here as a report with every card as i pick them up. My biggest problem so far is there's way to much info to read here and a ton of other sites to get info,, head spins <LOL. i know just starting i've got to make contacts at shows and here as a way to find honest people,dealers to buy from.. and so that i can also start to build a rep as a buyer. I HOPE to buy a few or small groups at a time, dont really mind either raw or graded just nice eye appealing cards that are REAL. Anyway thats a little more info from me and some questions .

thx Guy

Hi Guy :)

There really aren't any dumb questions, in my opinion. It's better to ask when you're unsure about something, and not operate under an assumption that could ruin your day. So, fire away. I promise you I've asked more dumb questions than you could ask in a lifetime! :p

1. I haven't been to a card show in several years, so take this with a grain of salt. But I wouldn't expect to see anybody using a black light. In order for the black light to effectively show signs of recoloring, modern printing technology, chemical cleaning/bleaching, paper repair, or incorrect card stock, you need a place where sunlight and artificial lights are not an issue. But a loupe? I wouldn't think it uncommon for hobbyists to bring one of these along. A seller set up at a card show is looking to make sales, and if everything they're selling is on the level, I can't imagine they'd object to your looking over a card of theirs should you have any concerns. If it were me, I'd kindly ask the proprietor to take the card out of the display case so I could look at it up close. Understand that it's going to be in some kind of case or top loader. But I'd give it a once over with the naked eye, and only break out the loupe on the rare occasion I needed a closer look.

2. There are different kinds of loupes, some lighted, others without a light source, as well as hand held loupes, and ones you can put right up against your eye. And they come with different price points depending on the power of the loupe, and the materials used. I've been very happy with the one I've got. I've found the optics to be very good. I use a Bausch & Lomb 10 x like this:

Example (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bausch-Lomb-Watchmakers-Eye-Loupe-81-41-70-10X-/231116802541?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35cfa289ed)

I just picked that seller at random. You might find a slightly better price, but I think I paid about $15 for mine.

I've seen a few different companies mentioned here that sell optics. Here's one:

http://www.peakoptics.com/

Another I've yet to find while searching deals with forensic document examination. If I stumble across it, I'll link it for you. David Cycleback also talks about portable microscopes, which can offer power up to 100 x. With those, you can actually examine the paper fiber and inks up close. He makes his book Judging the Authenticity of Early Baseball Cards available on his website for free. It's an outstanding resource that I highly recommend. I'm going to go back and read it a second time when I'm done with my Matty book. You can also get a hard copy, which is available on Amazon. I bought mine for under $20 shipped if I recall. It's always nice to have a copy you can take with you.

3. If you're examining a PSA graded card looking for tampering, the slab itself should be rigid.

First, look at the slab itself along the edges. Place it on a dark surface so you can see examine the plastic more clearly. PSA, SGC and I think Beckett graded slabs use sonic welding to "seal" the two pieces of plastic together along the seam. When this is done, a little bit of "frosting" will appear where the pins lock the card down. If you see a long uninterrupted line of frosting, then there's a good possibility somebody has tried to tamper with the case.

Here's a good example of what a frosted case looks like (from the PSA forums):

Clicky (http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=775804)

Long lines of frosting indicate that somebody has tried to separate the two pieces enough to remove the card, and replace it with another of lower grade, or an inauthentic card. The area appears as a bright white. People take things like a flat head screwdriver to try and separate the pieces. Novices will leave tell tale signs like the frosting, or cracking. But I have seen examples that are much less noticeable. Thus, you always need to examine the card. Never assume a card is authentic because it stuck inside plastic.

If you hold the PSA slab by the flip (the card with the information typed on it), and hold on the other side of the seam between the flip and the actual card, try gently to wiggle it very very gently, there should be no give. That means the slab's structural integrity is most likely intact along the seams. Now SGC's slab is constructed a little differently. You can still try to wiggle it, only instead of trying to wiggle it top to bottom, I try it gently side to side. Beckett's slabs are pretty much impossible to crack without leaving very clear indications of tampering.

4. I really don't know how much fake stuff is out there. The more expensive cards are more likely to be faked, but there are also less legitimate examples of those particular cards the market. People might try to fake a Honus Wagner, but there's only 50 or so known examples. So if you see one that is in near pristine condition on Ebay selling for $10,000--it's more than likely a fake. I suppose there's always a chance that somebody's grandpa liked him, and has stashed away a T206 Wagner for 100 years, but it's unlikely. With cards like that, there will be established provenance, and they're more often than not going to be sold by one of the major auction houses like Robert Edwards, or Heritage.

The Hall of Famers like Cobb, Johnson, Mathewson, Speaker etc might be a better bet for unscrupulous people to try and fake. Once you've handled some of the T206 cards, you'll start knowing what to look for, you'll be able to more quickly identify inauthentic cards.

The first thing to do if you spot a card you feel is inauthentic--flip it over, and look for the word "reprint" on the back. Or, look at the bottom of the back. If there's suspicious paper loss, or an eraser mark, it might be the word "reprint" being skillfully (or unskillfully) removed. Then, look at the lettering at the bottom of the card--the player's name and team. The first letter of the city should be slightly raised above the rest of the city name. Pay special attention to the typography. The letters should all look the same, though there might be some very slight kerning (or spacing) variance between the letters. Look at things like corner wear. If three corners are worn down and rounded, and one appears sharp, that's a likely indication of trimming. If a card's been handled for 100 years, and three of the corners are rounded, the likelihood of one card being sharp is pretty low. You'll get used to the printing used on these cards. As you learn about T206 cards, you'll understand better how the cards were printed, one color at a time. That explains why sometimes you'll see some registration issues, like one color slightly bleeding beyond the others, or color going slightly outside of the black border around the card. As far as things like trimming, or other card alterations, start with the guide provided by our forum:

http://www.net54baseball.com/forum/content/alterations.html

It's good to be skeptical. To quote the David Cycleback book I referenced earlier (Judging the Authentication..), "start by knowing there are reprints, counterfeits, fakes, and scams out there. If you start by knowing you should be doing your homework, having healthy skepticism sellers' grand claims and getting second opinions, you will be infinitely better off than the beginner who assumes everything's authentic, and all sellers are honest."

If you're buying from reputable dealers, or forum members with an established history, you're going to greatly reduce the possibility of buying an inauthentic card right off the bat. When I am buying from a member of the forum, I typically look through their post history quickly to see if they've sold cards before. And that's usually more than enough to satisfy the little voice inside my head. If they've been active members for several years, I don't even need to do that. Leon exercises great care. Anybody who registers on the forum, as you know, has to provide their name and full contact information. And the members of this forum not only police the forum, but the hobby in general. If a member sees an auction on Ebay, or a card being sold by an auction house that raises any kind of red flag, they report it. In this hobby, reputation is everything, and you only have one chance to demonstrate you are trustworthy. If you are looking to buy a card from a seller on Ebay, Google their user name and Net54 at the same time. You'd be surprised how many vintage and pre-war sellers are also members here.

5. There have been discussions here as to back rarity, and lists that have been created and revised over time. I generally go by the one on t206resource.com:

List (http://t206resource.com/Back%20Rankings%20List.html)
Gallery (http://t206resource.com/Backs%20Gallery.html)

I don't know if you should expect to see any of the rarer backs with any regularity. If you're doing back runs for a player, or just looking for a particular player and back combination, patience is a virtue. The Monster is not easily beaten, so there may be times where you cannot get the card you want immediately. The BST is useful in helping you to fill your want list. The forum is a giant network of the best collectors in the hobby. A lot of times they can find things that you might think impossible. Or, there might just not be a particular card available at that time. For rarer front and back combinations, cards are locked away in private collections.

6. A card that's been assigned an "authentic" designation is a real card that has been altered in some way, which precludes it from receiving a numerical grade (1-10) or a conditional grade (poor, excellent, near-mint, etc).

The most famous T206 card of em all is the Honus Wagner card that was owned by Wayne Gretzky. I think it's owned by the Diamondbacks owner now (his name escapes me). It most recently went for $2.8 million. It was initially graded as an "8", near mint, but in the last few months, it's been confirmed that Bill Mastro trimmed the card.

Clicky (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/mastro-admits-cutting-honus-card-article-1.1482098)

Basically, this is an original T206 card printed in the period of 1909-1911, included in a Piedmont Cigarettes package. Trimming involves using a very sharp blade, like an x-acto knife, and cutting away a very small portion of a card's edge to give it a better appearance, and by extension, drive up the price. It's highly unethical, and there's been debate that the card should lose its grade, and be designated as an authentic card. The guide I linked on the forum includes information on determining cards that have been trimmed. Other kinds of alteration that would necessitate an "authentic" designation include bleaching to whiten the white borders, erasing pencil marks, or rebuilding a card that has had paper loss. Any kind of restorative work is generally considered altering the card, though soaking a card falls into a grey area. Some people take issue with it, but I would expect a majority do not. Soaking involves removing the soiling that accumulates on a card over a long period of time (smoke, body oils, dirt, etc).

Hope that helps. Let me know if you need any clarification. And if anybody spots an area where I've misspoken, please feel free to correct me.

[Tobacco206]

Hi Guy :)

There really aren't any dumb questions, in my opinion. It's better to ask when you're unsure about something, and not operate under an assumption that could ruin your day. So, fire away. I promise you I've asked more dumb questions than you could ask in a lifetime! :p

1. I haven't been to a card show in several years, so take this with a grain of salt. But I wouldn't expect to see anybody using a black light. In order for the black light to effectively show signs of recoloring, modern printing technology, chemical cleaning/bleaching, paper repair, or incorrect card stock, you need a place where sunlight and artificial lights are not an issue. But a loupe? I wouldn't think it uncommon for hobbyists to bring one of these along. A seller set up at a card show is looking to make sales, and if everything they're selling is on the level, I can't imagine they'd object to your looking over a card of theirs should you have any concerns. If it were me, I'd kindly ask the proprietor to take the card out of the display case so I could look at it up close. Understand that it's going to be in some kind of case or top loader. But I'd give it a once over with the naked eye, and only break out the loupe on the rare occasion I needed a closer look.

2. There are different kinds of loupes, some lighted, others without a light source, as well as hand held loupes, and ones you can put right up against your eye. And they come with different price points depending on the power of the loupe, and the materials used. I've been very happy with the one I've got. I've found the optics to be very good. I use a Bausch & Lomb 10 x like this:

Example (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Bausch-Lomb-Watchmakers-Eye-Loupe-81-41-70-10X-/231116802541?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35cfa289ed)

I just picked that seller at random. You might find a slightly better price, but I think I paid about $15 for mine.

I've seen a few different companies mentioned here that sell optics. Here's one:

http://www.peakoptics.com/

Another I've yet to find while searching deals with forensic document examination. If I stumble across it, I'll link it for you. David Cycleback also talks about portable microscopes, which can offer power up to 100 x. With those, you can actually examine the paper fiber and inks up close. He makes his book Judging the Authenticity of Early Baseball Cards available on his website for free. It's an outstanding resource that I highly recommend. I'm going to go back and read it a second time when I'm done with my Matty book. You can also get a hard copy, which is available on Amazon. I bought mine for under $20 shipped if I recall. It's always nice to have a copy you can take with you.

3. If you're examining a PSA graded card looking for tampering, the slab itself should be rigid.

First, look at the slab itself along the edges. Place it on a dark surface so you can see examine the plastic more clearly. PSA, SGC and I think Beckett graded slabs use sonic welding to "seal" the two pieces of plastic together along the seam. When this is done, a little bit of "frosting" will appear where the pins lock the card down. If you see a long uninterrupted line of frosting, then there's a good possibility somebody has tried to tamper with the case.

Here's a good example of what a frosted case looks like (from the PSA forums):

Clicky (http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=11&threadid=775804)

Long lines of frosting indicate that somebody has tried to separate the two pieces enough to remove the card, and replace it with another of lower grade, or an inauthentic card. The area appears as a bright white. People take things like a flat head screwdriver to try and separate the pieces. Novices will leave tell tale signs like the frosting, or cracking. But I have seen examples that are much less noticeable. Thus, you always need to examine the card. Never assume a card is authentic because it stuck inside plastic.

If you hold the PSA slab by the flip (the card with the information typed on it), and hold on the other side of the seam between the flip and the actual card, try gently to wiggle it very very gently, there should be no give. That means the slab's structural integrity is most likely intact along the seams. Now SGC's slab is constructed a little differently. You can still try to wiggle it, only instead of trying to wiggle it top to bottom, I try it gently side to side. Beckett's slabs are pretty much impossible to crack without leaving very clear indications of tampering.

4. I really don't know how much fake stuff is out there. The more expensive cards are more likely to be faked, but there are also less legitimate examples of those particular cards the market. People might try to fake a Honus Wagner, but there's only 50 or so known examples. So if you see one that is in near pristine condition on Ebay selling for $10,000--it's more than likely a fake. I suppose there's always a chance that somebody's grandpa liked him, and has stashed away a T206 Wagner for 100 years, but it's unlikely. With cards like that, there will be established provenance, and they're more often than not going to be sold by one of the major auction houses like Robert Edwards, or Heritage.

The Hall of Famers like Cobb, Johnson, Mathewson, Speaker etc might be a better bet for unscrupulous people to try and fake. Once you've handled some of the T206 cards, you'll start knowing what to look for, you'll be able to more quickly identify inauthentic cards.

The first thing to do if you spot a card you feel is inauthentic--flip it over, and look for the word "reprint" on the back. Or, look at the bottom of the back. If there's suspicious paper loss, or an eraser mark, it might be the word "reprint" being skillfully (or unskillfully) removed. Then, look at the lettering at the bottom of the card--the player's name and team. The first letter of the city should be slightly raised above the rest of the city name. Pay special attention to the typography. The letters should all look the same, though there might be some very slight kerning (or spacing) variance between the letters. Look at things like corner wear. If three corners are worn down and rounded, and one appears sharp, that's a likely indication of trimming. If a card's been handled for 100 years, and three of the corners are rounded, the likelihood of one card being sharp is pretty low. You'll get used to the printing used on these cards. As you learn about T206 cards, you'll understand better how the cards were printed, one color at a time. That explains why sometimes you'll see some registration issues, like one color slightly bleeding beyond the others, or color going slightly outside of the black border around the card. As far as things like trimming, or other card alterations, start with the guide provided by our forum:

http://www.net54baseball.com/forum/content/alterations.html

It's good to be skeptical. To quote the David Cycleback book I referenced earlier (Judging the Authentication..), "start by knowing there are reprints, counterfeits, fakes, and scams out there. If you start by knowing you should be doing your homework, having healthy skepticism sellers' grand claims and getting second opinions, you will be infinitely better off than the beginner who assumes everything's authentic, and all sellers are honest."

If you're buying from reputable dealers, or forum members with an established history, you're going to greatly reduce the possibility of buying an inauthentic card right off the bat. When I am buying from a member of the forum, I typically look through their post history quickly to see if they've sold cards before. And that's usually more than enough to satisfy the little voice inside my head. If they've been active members for several years, I don't even need to do that. Leon exercises great care. Anybody who registers on the forum, as you know, has to provide their name and full contact information. And the members of this forum not only police the forum, but the hobby in general. If a member sees an auction on Ebay, or a card being sold by an auction house that raises any kind of red flag, they report it. In this hobby, reputation is everything, and you only have one chance to demonstrate you are trustworthy. If you are looking to buy a card from a seller on Ebay, Google their user name and Net54 at the same time. You'd be surprised how many vintage and pre-war sellers are also members here.

5. There have been discussions here as to back rarity, and lists that have been created and revised over time. I generally go by the one on t206resource.com:

List (http://t206resource.com/Back%20Rankings%20List.html)
Gallery (http://t206resource.com/Backs%20Gallery.html)

I don't know if you should expect to see any of the rarer backs with any regularity. If you're doing back runs for a player, or just looking for a particular player and back combination, patience is a virtue. The Monster is not easily beaten, so there may be times where you cannot get the card you want immediately. The BST is useful in helping you to fill your want list. The forum is a giant network of the best collectors in the hobby. A lot of times they can find things that you might think impossible. Or, there might just not be a particular card available at that time. For rarer front and back combinations, cards are locked away in private collections.

6. A card that's been assigned an "authentic" designation is a real card that has been altered in some way, which precludes it from receiving a numerical grade (1-10) or a conditional grade (poor, excellent, near-mint, etc).

The most famous T206 card of em all is the Honus Wagner card that was owned by Wayne Gretzky. I think it's owned by the Diamondbacks owner now (his name escapes me). It most recently went for $2.8 million. It was initially graded as an "8", near mint, but in the last few months, it's been confirmed that Bill Mastro trimmed the card.

Clicky (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/i-team/mastro-admits-cutting-honus-card-article-1.1482098)

Basically, this is an original T206 card printed in the period of 1909-1911, included in a Piedmont Cigarettes package. Trimming involves using a very sharp blade, like an x-acto knife, and cutting away a very small portion of a card's edge to give it a better appearance, and by extension, drive up the price. It's highly unethical, and there's been debate that the card should lose its grade, and be designated as an authentic card. The guide I linked on the forum includes information on determining cards that have been trimmed. Other kinds of alteration that would necessitate an "authentic" designation include bleaching to whiten the white borders, erasing pencil marks, or rebuilding a card that has had paper loss. Any kind of restorative work is generally considered altering the card, though soaking a card falls into a grey area. Some people take issue with it, but I would expect a majority do not. Soaking involves removing the soiling that accumulates on a card over a long period of time (smoke, body oils, dirt, etc).

Hope that helps. Let me know if you need any clarification. And if anybody spots an area where I've misspoken, please feel free to correct me.


Again great info.. of useful stuff here. i'll keep reading and pm you with other questions, already itching to buy something< LOL