CANO to Seattle

[RichardSimon]

10 yrs $240 mill

[GrayGhost]

Yankees off season gets even more interesting. Got to go for another bat now and someone w a halfway decent glove for 2B/. As a Yankees fan, I won't miss the lack of hustle of Cano, but he sure was talented

[JBird]

damn man. cano could have walked to first base and i wouldn't have cared. loved watching him play.

[Jim65]

How long before Cano says, "it wasn't about the money, I always wanted to play in Seattle"?

[pariah1107]

Christmas comes early for this M's fan. We needed help up the middle.... in the outfield.... and a closer wouldn't hurt either this year Santa.... there's still time.

[yanks12025]

Hope he enjoys losing for 10 years and never winning another world series ring.

[packs]

Seattle can be very strong if they ever get an outfield. Cano, Seager, and Nick Franklin will all be under contract until at least 2018. That's a heavy hitting infield.

Felix and Iwakuma are strong anchors in the rotation too.

[prewarsports]

How soon people forget that for a 5-6 year period Seattle was the winningest Franchise in all of Baseball and made it to the ALCS in back to back years. If not for a stacked Yankees team at their absolute peak, they could have won 2-3 World Series in that time. A far cry from not winning. They have built the best Minor League organization in all of Baseball with a young Pitching Corp that other teams would Mortgage the Farm for, and now with Cano should be able to start attractive some free agents. I am not saying they are going to win the World Series, but they are certainly not going to "lose for the next decade".

[btcarfagno]

Hey Seattle...

Enjoy that contract in about 5 or 6 years. What an albatross that thing will be.

News flash. There aren't many 41 year old second basemen out there.

Tom C

[RichardSimon]

Yeah, but there are 41 year old DH's.

[khkco4bls]

Hey rich ur gonna pay him that money AS A DH... JUST LOOK AT A RODS MESS.

[btcarfagno]

Yeah, but there are 41 year old DH's.

Cano will start the downslide in 2-3 years. By age 37 he will move to DH and the final 4 years of that contract he will hit and play like Jason Giambi at a similar age. Should be fun.

Tom C

[JasonD08]

Bad move. Cano is lazy and was given too much $$. What a waste of talent.

[pgellis]

Talk about another albatross of a contract....how about the Ellsbury contract?

It was funny that Yankee fans the other day thought that they could sign Ellsbury, McCann and still get Cano and a pitcher or 2.

[Runscott]

Wow, surprising how many of the northeastern board crowd are taking snipes at the Mariners fans here - can't you just let us be less-than-miserable for a few days? In return we will still all bow down to the Yankee money and acknowledge their individual player greatness.

Also, you kind of owe us for sending you Brendan Ryan - how could we have foreseen that he would boost his average from .190 to .220? I can't believe that only resulted in a $2 mill per year contract. What cheapskates you guys are.

[btcarfagno]

Wow, surprising how many of the northeastern board crowd are taking snipes at the Mariners fans here - can't you just let us be less-than-miserable for a few days? In return we will still all bow down to the Yankee money and acknowledge their individual player greatness.

Also, you kind of owe us for sending you Brendan Ryan - how could we have foreseen that he would boost his average from .190 to .220? I can't believe that only resulted in a $2 mill per year contract. What cheapskates you guys are.

I hate the Yankees with a passion. Just amused that the Mariners, even with this move, will most likely be a .500 team next year.

Tom C

[Runscott]

I hate the Yankees with a passion. Just amused that the Mariners, even with this move, will most likely be a .500 team next year.

Tom C

Hey, we can only hope for .500 :)

Last year preseason, the talk was about how great the Astros and Mariners will be in a few years, but with the Mariners brass chasing off Eric Wedge, I fear they are no longer on track. I do believe they needed a Cano-type to take them into this promised future period of greatness, so we'll see.

[D. Bergin]

Talk about another albatross of a contract....how about the Ellsbury contract?

It was funny that Yankee fans the other day thought that they could sign Ellsbury, McCann and still get Cano and a pitcher or 2.


This Yankee fan knew Cano was history as soon as Ellsbury signed.

Ellsbury, outside of 1 season, is half the player of Cano and is getting paid nearly as much per season.

Granted, Yankees would have been crazy giving Cano the same 10-year contract, even though he's missed less games in the last 7 years then Ellsbury misses in any given week.

I just don't understand the economics of baseball the last few years. All these long-term guaranteed contracts are insane.

[Shoeless Moe]

I think the GMs that hand these deals out figure they'll be long gone by the time the contract is up, so it most likely won't be their problem.

[Runscott]

I just don't understand the economics of baseball the last few years. All these long-term guaranteed contracts are insane.

Funny, when I read about Brendan Ryan's new contract, my eyes popped and I had a good discussion about these salaries with a friend.

There are probably good articles/books that explain it, but my guess is they blame it on corporate tickets. Ticket prices and concessions, along with marketing contracts and television, obviously have to go up in order to support these salaries, but it all comes down to what 'we' are willing to pay. Back in the early '80s when I lived in Houston, I could afford to go to as many games as I wanted. Now I scour stub hub for bargains, and still don't go to more than ten each year, and I never pay the beer and food prices.

That leaves all those empty corporate seats. So...large American companies use cheap foreign labor to keep stock prices up and 'their' country's middle class down, use some of that money to tell us on television how much they love us, some of it to buy baseball tickets to hand out some of that love to their upper management, and the seats remain mostly empty.

And we watch the game in a bar over $2.00 happy hour Raniers. Yeah, I'm mad - you corporate management types need to give away those tickets to your underlings if you'd rather go to Ruths Chris for dinner.

Filled seats = less uncomfortable vintage baseball chat forum questions.

[JasonD08]

Don't worry they will just pass it off to you season ticket holders.

[JoeyF1981]

Wow I didnt even know the mariners had that much money to spend on anything. I live in seattle and the mariners are horrible so hopefully cano coming here will get us at least 3 wins for the season..lol

[RichardSimon]

Hey rich ur gonna pay him that money AS A DH... JUST LOOK AT A RODS MESS.

Don't pick on me,,, I am a Yankee hater,,, :):)

[gashouse34]

[QUOTE=yanks12025;1214203]Hope he enjoys losing for 10 years and never winning another world series ring.[/QUOTE

Yes because surely the Yankees are going to win many more championships in the next 10 years:rolleyes:

[Shoeless Moe]

If Seattle can get David Price, that's a helluva a 1-2-3 for the playoffs......if they make it that is.

[yanks12025]

[QUOTE=yanks12025;1214203]Hope he enjoys losing for 10 years and never winning another world series ring.[/QUOTE

Yes because surely the Yankees are going to win many more championships in the next 10 years:rolleyes:

I bet in the next ten years the Yankees win more rings then the M's do.

[HRBAKER]

My guess is he figures that he has just as much a chance of winning in Seattle as he did in NY and the money was better.

[brookdodger55]

Good luck cano with a 215 average hitters in front of you. I guess it was about the money and not going to a winning team. He might have made a bad decision
Letting Jay z represent him, got his money but not getting a ring there. He will put fans in the seats to watch only him. Good luck with that.
Mike

[Shoeless Moe]

If he really is lazy as others have said here, I doubt he would care about a ring over money.

[Runscott]

I bet in the next ten years the Yankees win more rings then the M's do.

Yes, therefore every single baseball player in the world should do everything possible to become a member of the Yankees.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I've been a Yankees fan for 51 years.

As a fan, I've been fortunate enough to see them win eight World Series titles and countless trips to the playoffs. There is nothing to be upset about.

I was never enamored with Cano. He was offered a huge chunk of change by the Yankees and decided to accept the Mariners offer.

So be it.

I will not miss him.

The Yankees will be just fine this season, and the next and the next.

[Scott Garner]

yes, therefore every single baseball player in the world should do everything possible to become a member of the yankees.

;) lol

[prewarsports]

Yankees fans should not just assume World Series come their way by birthright. As a fan who grew up watching baseball in the 1980's they were BAD for a long time. Maybe they will be fine and maybe they wont, but assuming they will win World Series' over the next 10 years just because they have pinstripes and rich owners?????

[71buc]

I live in Wershington and as such I am a M's fan by proxy. I hate to say it but this feels like a desperate last ditch effort by Jack Z. to save his job by putting lipstick on a pig. They need to have at least one other big bat in that line up to play 500.

[khkco4bls]

Cano was lazy running and it won't change. Great talent. One man does not make up a team. Let him go. The salaries are out of control, and I am done going to the stadium to pay for them. Thank god for 55" HD TV..

[thetruthisoutthere]

Cano was lazy running and it won't change. Great talent. One man does not make up a team. Let him go. The salaries are out of control, and I am done going to the stadium to pay for them. Thank god for 55" HD TV..

Absolutely a great talent.

Like I wrote previously, "I was never enamored with Cano."

Cano was always about Cano.

Yankees will be just fine without him.

[hammer]

Hey I have been a suffering Met fan for the last 5yrs of painfull baseball. At least they picked up Granderson and are trying. This is a improvement and I hope its a start going in the right direction.

[Runscott]

I live in Wershington and as such I am a M's fan by proxy. I hate to say it but this feels like a desperate last ditch effort by Jack Z. to save his job by putting lipstick on a pig. They need to have at least one other big bat in that line up to play 500.

I agree that Jack Z should not have this job, as he has made plenty of mistakes, forcing out Wedge being one of them. I also agree that they need a big bat, and I think Cano is a much more serious effort than they put out last year with the two big veteran acquisitions. But this isn't putting lipstick on a pig, or adding a bat in order to play .500. The Mariners may not take advantage of it, but almost everyone recognizes that they have the young talent waiting in the wings to build a very good team in the near future, but you usually can't do that without a Cano or two. They've added the big bat. Now let's see if they can put the pitching staff together in the right way and properly get rid of a few lost causes such as Justin Smoak.

[Old Hoss]

I follow both the M's and the Yankees (grew up in NY, now live in WA).

The labeling of Cano as "lazy" has always been unfair and a misunderstood take on a truly natural talent. It just takes watching him for a few games to see a smooth, solid style of play. Just because it looks effortless in the field, doesn't mean he is lazy. Just because he isn't a "grinder" who makes routine 4-3 ground-outs ever-so-slightly-closer, does not make him lazy. He is a fantastic player. I think most fans in NY will miss him because he was fun to watch, and talent like that is special. I'm lucky that I got to follow him as a Yankee and will get to continue following him closely as a Mariner.

I don't feel like Yankee fans assume that World Series titles are their birthright. However, Yankee fans likely feel like they will be a better team over the next ten years than the Mariners. That seems pretty plausible and likely, no? Who has more postseason wins in the next ten years, the M's or the Yankees? Maybe it is debatable, but if I were a betting man, I'd say the Yankees.

In my experience watching Eric Wedge manage the M's and the Indians before that, he appears to be a sub-par manager in virtually every way. To me, the M's were smart to go in a new direction, especially if Wedge was asking for to be brought back for more than one year.

Here is one of the many articles you can find to support my point about Wedge's generally underwhelming managerial career [some of the better points about him are slightly embedded, which requires a closer read]: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/36413/time-for-mariners-to-fire-eric-wedge

[HRBAKER]

No worries for the Yanks they just signed Beltran.
The youth movement continues.

[Runscott]

However, Yankee fans likely feel like they will be a better team over the next ten years than the Mariners. That seems pretty plausible and likely, no? Who has more postseason wins in the next ten years, the M's or the Yankees? Maybe it is debatable, but if I were a betting man, I'd say the Yankees.

Yes, again - all baseball players on the planet should flock to the Yankees - it only makes sense.

And as huge as their payroll is, and as great as their individual players are (and their amazing fans...), shouldn't any Yankee manager who doesn't win the World Series every year be deemed a failure? And even some who DO win it, since it would be impossible to do otherwise based on their plethora of talent, payroll and incredibly knowledgeable and loyal fans?

It's no illogical jump of logic to state that ALL human beings who have any sense at all, should convert to Yankee fans?

[Old Hoss]

I don't think my post indicated that I feel like all players should flock to the Yankees. I indicated a fairly rational explanation for the likely outlook of many Yankee fans, and I am someone with ties and an interest in BOTH teams. I was responding to a post about the entitlement of Yankee fans--maybe some fans have a sense of entitlement (isn't being a fan of any team about entitlement in some way, shape, or form?). Yankee fans have high expectations, not because of pinstripes, but because of their market and their money. Should a post about Yankee fan expectations and the fact that they are likely to win more postseason games than the M's be taken to mean that "all baseball players should flock to the Yankees"? Or that all fans should be Yankee fans? No and no.

I'm sorry if my post was taken to be about Yankee fan superiority, or interpreting my advocacy for people being fair-weather fans. That was not my intention. I think anyone who is being objective would agree with the statement I made, and know that it was not about the actual superiority of teams or fans. I have a huge rooting interest in the M's and would like to see them have a successful run.

I also love baseball, in general, and have an interest in parity in the game.

Are you defending Eric Wedge with your rhetorical question about managers?

[71buc]

In order to compete now I think the Mariners could:


Trade Taijuan Walker for David Price
Trade Nick Franklin for Billy Butler and install him as the DH
Sign Corey Hart and make him the first baseman
Trade Danny Hultzen for Joc Pederson and put him if right field


Starting Lineup
1. Ackley LF
2. Kyle Seager 3b
3. Robinson Cano 2b
4. Billy Butler DH
5. Corey Hart 1b
6. Joc Pederson RF
7. Michael Saunders CF
8. Brad Miller SS
9. Mike Zunino C

Starting rotation
Hernandez
Iwakuma
Price
Paxton
Capps

[Runscott]

I indicated a fairly rational explanation for the likely outlook of many Yankee fans,

Twice.

I already stated my thoughts on Eric Wedge. I get it - you disagree.

[Deertick]

I believe it will take Walker AND Franklin plus for Price.

[Runscott]

I believe it will take Walker AND Franklin plus for Price.

Walker and Franklin aren't going anywhere. Paxton, maybe. He had a much better record last year than the Mariners had planned on. Could be the league will get used to him quickly and they might try to get rid of him before that happens.

[D. Bergin]

Hey, we'd be happy to trade Michael Pineda back to you.........for ANYBODY, who can make a big league roster. ;)

[pariah1107]

Only a couple changes to Mike's post... He's probably forgotten more about the game and evaluating players than I'll ever know....

..... but I don't think Capps will be in the rotation, he's a decent middle reliever. I don't remember him starting any games last season. Erasmo Ramirez or Maurer might be a fifth starter with Hernandez, Iwakuma, Walker, and Paxton. I wouldn't mind a trade Paxton & Franklin for Price, but it's a pipe-dream.

Bloomquist at short, rather than Miller. Always liked him, glad he'll be back in Mariners uniform again. Ibanez was a welcome surprise after his return last season, maybe lightning strikes twice.

[Deertick]

Walker and Franklin aren't going anywhere. Paxton, maybe. He had a much better record last year than the Mariners had planned on. Could be the league will get used to him quickly and they might try to get rid of him before that happens.

"No Price for YOU!!! NEXT!!!!"
-The Rays Nazi

[drmondobueno]

[QUOTE=gashousegang_1;1214314]

I bet in the next ten years the Yankees win more rings then the M's do.

Betcha it's a dead heat.

[perezfan]

If the Mariners next move isn't to "fix" the 1B situation, it will be disappointing. Was really hoping for Napoli to come here. Jack Z's tenure has been filled with complacency and some very poor decisions. The rebuilding phase would've continued to drag on forever, and attendance has declined each year since 2003. Soccer is now more popular here than baseball :mad:

This is Zduriencik's final chance to save credibility (and his job), IMHO.

[Runscott]

"No Price for YOU!!! NEXT!!!!"
-The Rays Nazi

Haha. I didn't mean Paxton for Price. Personally, I hope Paxton becomes a key figure in the Mariners' rotation, as I bought a ball he threw in his first Major League game.

[71buc]

Only a couple changes to Mike's post... He's probably forgotten more about the game and evaluating players than I'll ever know....

..... but I don't think Capps will be in the rotation, he's a decent middle reliever. I don't remember him starting any games last season. Erasmo Ramirez or Maurer might be a fifth starter with Hernandez, Iwakuma, Walker, and Paxton. I wouldn't mind a trade Paxton & Franklin for Price, but it's a pipe-dream.

Bloomquist at short, rather than Miller. Always liked him, glad he'll be back in Mariners uniform again. Ibanez was a welcome surprise after his return last season, maybe lightning strikes twice.

Signing a player like Cano was once a pipe dream as well. I like Capps' size and frame at 23 he will get thicker and throw harder. I think that with maturity, opportunity, and experience he could develop into a solid #3 starter. Obviously Walker is the jewel and I would prefer to keep him. However, Price is an established star who's addition to the team would serve put butts back in those vacant seats. I like Butler, and Hart coming off an injury would be affordable. Both could offer much needed protection for Cano without breaking the bank. I like Millers body and athleticism but ocassionally cringe when I see his foot work. Although I am not a huge fan of Miller I'll take his future over Bloomquist's. Bloomquist is a pro's pro but not a starter. I see his value in his ability to execute. He has a lot to teach Miller hopefully Milller recognizes that. Bloomquist also has the unique ability to play both short and center. I really would love to see them get Pederson from LA. I see him developing into something special and would love to see that career blossom in my own backyard.

[Runscott]

Signing a player like Cano was once a pipe dream as well. I like Capps' size and frame at 23 he will get thicker and throw harder. I think that with maturity, opportunity, and experience he could develop into a solid #3 starter.

If you are right, then the Mariners are certain to trade him first.

[71buc]

If you are right, then the Mariners are certain to trade him first.

That doesn't happen very often just ask my wife. However, I was right on Puig before he took Hollywood by storm and I feel just as strongly about Pederson.

[iwantitiwinit]

Not at all surprised that Cano went to the highest bidder given he's Jay-z's first high profile client but personally I think Cano was misled a bit that is assuming he wanted to stay with the yanks if the money was close. The way I see it Cano essentially left the comfort of the NY area, his teammates and friends, and a much better chance to win championships for less than a 3.5 million dollar difference per year. If you assume the yanks offer was 175 for seven years I would think he would still have some earnings power at the expiration of that contract for the next 3 yrs lets say 24 mil total which would get him to 199 total for 10 yrs in ny. Now assume his federal tax rate is a blended 36 pct plus ny tax of 6 pct so .42 total taxin ny (disregard FICA because its only on the first 100k). In Seattle he only pays state inc tax on away games in states with income tax so say its 1/4 of what he pays in ny or 1.5pct his fed is still 36 so 37.5 pct total rate in Seattle. So yearly take home in Seattle is 240/10=24. 24*(1-.375)=15 mill after tax. In ny 199/10 19.9* (1-.42)=11.54 mil in ny. To me that's not a large enough diff in take home especially when you are at such high numbers to force a move and the 24 for 3 yrs could be conservative. Seattle over NY for only a 29 pct diff in take home pay at best, doesn't do it for me.

[71buc]

Not at all surprised that Cano went to the highest bidder given he's Jay-z's first high profile client but personally I think Cano was misled a bit that is assuming he wanted to stay with the yanks if the money was close. The way I see it Cano essentially left the comfort of the NY area, his teammates and friends, and a much better chance to win championships for less than a 3.5 million dollar difference per year. If you assume the yanks offer was 175 for seven years I would think he would still have some earnings power at the expiration of that contract for the next 3 yrs lets say 24 mil total which would get him to 199 total for 10 yrs in ny. Now assume his federal tax rate is a blended 36 pct plus ny tax of 6 pct so .42 total taxin ny (disregard FICA because its only on the first 100k). In Seattle he only pays state inc tax on away games in states with income tax so say its 1/4 of what he pays in ny or 1.5pct his fed is still 36 so 37.5 pct total rate in Seattle. So yearly take home in Seattle is 240/10=24. 24*(1-.375)=15 mill after tax. In ny 199/10 19.9* (1-.42)=11.54 mil in ny. To me that's not a large enough diff in take home especially when you are at such high numbers to force a move and the 24 for 3 yrs could be conservative. Seattle over NY for only a 29 pct diff in take home pay at best, doesn't do it for me.

I got a cramp reading this:( How bout them M's!

[Runscott]

Could be some sour grapes, but this article still gives some insight into what Wedge, and any other Mariners manager, is having to deal with in Seattle.

I can't see Lloyd McLendon putting up with this crap any better than did Wedge.

Dysfunction in Seattle (http://seattletimes.com/html/mariners/2022420240_mariners08xml.html)

[71buc]

Could be some sour grapes, but this article still gives some insight into what Wedge, and any other Mariners manager, is having to deal with in Seattle.

I can't see Lloyd McLendon putting up with this crap any better than did Wedge.

Dysfunction in Seattle (http://seattletimes.com/html/mariners/2022420240_mariners08xml.html)

I read that article this morning. I wish they had waited until after the winter meetings to air that dirty laundry. It certainly doesn't make selling the organization to free agents an easy task.

[Old Hoss]

It seems that free agents, their agents, and everyone in baseball already knew the substance of this, although maybe not the specifics.

For any Seattle baseball fan, USS Mariner is a great site to add to your bookmarks, and here is one writer's (not mine) reaction (I have excerpted a paragraph from this link: http://www.ussmariner.com/2013/12/08/report-on-the-wreckage-from-a-bomb-long-exploded/)

"For all of us, this was a difficult article to read. It was powerful and worrying and it’s come at almost the worst possible time. It was difficult for me not because it’s going to change anything. The Mariners didn’t suddenly develop worse leadership. They’re not going to suddenly have a more negative perception around baseball. It was difficult for me because it supports the worst feelings I’ve had about the organization for what feels like a handful of years. The message is that the way things are is about as bad as people have feared. People around the Mariners already knew that. People elsewhere in baseball already knew that. Now the people in Seattle can know that. The team’s going to bring in a lot of new talent, but are these the people we trust to make that happen in a responsible, intelligent way? For a while, we’ve been cynical. Now it’s been laid out for us why we’re not wrong."

[Runscott]

Thanks for that post. I'm surprised the author felt that people in Seattle weren't aware of the problems with upper management. We have been aware, but we are also hopeful.

[71buc]

If you are right, then the Mariners are certain to trade him first.

Well looks like we may have both been right they did trade Capps. Morrison is not Billy Butler but who knows that may still happen. I am thrilled that I got the Corey Hart signing right maybe that means Jock Pederson is on his way as well?;) I am a bit frightened that Jack Z and I seem to see things the same way. Perhaps I am not as good at this GM stuff as I thought?

[Runscott]

I am thrilled that I got the Corey Hart signing right maybe that means Jock Pederson is on his way as well?;) I am a bit frightened that Jack Z and I seem to see things the same way. Perhaps I am not as good at this GM stuff as I thought?

Mike, I thought about your prediction when I read that we had gotten Corey Hart, and that he would probably split time at 1B - that was a great call on your part.

Jack Z may have someone telling him what to do - perhaps his bosses are paying someone with actual baseball knowledge and Jack Z is now just a puppet?

[Old Hoss]

I was surprised that the author of the blog post thought people in Seattle were unaware, too.

I like the Corey Hart move. However, I'm not sure if there is really a role for Logan Morrison. He seems a lot like Smoak...there was/is potential, but it is still potential and they aren't truly young anymore. Hopefully the Ms aren't considering putting Morrison in the outfield, since he can't really play there at this point.

[71buc]

Mike, I thought about your prediction when I read that we had gotten Corey Hart, and that he would probably split time at 1B - that was a great call on your part.

Jack Z may have someone telling him what to do - perhaps his bosses are paying someone with actual baseball knowledge and Jack Z is now just a puppet?

Scott would love to attend a game with you next season pick one and the tickets are on me. Hopefully they will put a product on the field that is entertaining. It sure has been awhile.

[Runscott]

Scott would love to attend a game with you next season pick one and the tickets are on me. Hopefully they will put a product on the field that is entertaining. It sure has been awhile.

Looking forward to it!

[Exhibitman]

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/dropins/websize/theyrestillshitty.jpg