1935 Chicle Set

[TanksAndSpartans]

I'm thinking of starting this set - I know it won't be easy, but I really like NFL history so the idea of collecting the first set is appealing.

Wanted to get opinions on the set composition:

Knute Rockne: seems really random to include a college coach

Red Grange: I get 1934 was his last year, but still, would have been nice

Mel Hein: This guy was a star and its not like they don't include linemen, this is the biggest omit to me. Anyone think of other glaring omissions?

Clarke Hinkle: posed as a kicker and seems to be wearing a number with a "2" rather than his 30, really disappointing on both accounts

Buildings: Some cards have buildings in the background. Does anyone know if those are real buildings? For example the Beattie Feathers has a cool looking building that reminds me of the Cathedral of Learning on the Pitt campus. Could it be? Or could it be a building in Chicago where Beattie played? Or something out of the artist's imagination?

[Myachelydra]

Truly a classic set. There are so many levels at which you can pursue it regarding condition, completion, etc.

Selling gum was the plan so the inclusion of the legend/football saint Rockne was a no-brainer.

Grange is included in the Chicle Premium (R311-2); but as you said a card of him would have been nice.

Hein is definitely a glaring omission, as is George Musso, George Christensen, and even a rookie Don Hutson.

I am not a fan of the Hinkle card either but others really like it. His 1933 Diamond Matchbook is my favorite piece of his.

My thought is that backgrounds are 100% fabricated but I could be wrong. I have looked but have yet to find some of the original photos used for the Chicles...that would answer the question. The building on the card does look like the Cathedral of Learning.

[jefferyepayne]

Gotta agree with you guys that the National Chicle set is an all-time classic! But we need more pictures in this thread.

Here's Beattie.

122471

Here's Grange.

122472

Definitely don't forget about the R311 premiums as it's a fun set to put together and a nice complement to the cards.

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

...
Knute Rockne: seems really random to include a college coach

...

Also note that the back of these cards say there was going to be 240 cards in the set. Given the size of the NFL rosters, there would not have been enough NFL players to print this many cards so it's likely they were planning to include college players as well.

No one knows for sure why National Chicle did not print the entire set but they were in financial troubles by this time and only a few years from being sold to Goudey. Perhaps they did not get enough of a response from the initial cards they printed to justify spending additional money on the set.

jeff

[tuckr1]

It has been an awesome set to collect and learn about, I am 6 away from completion, probably take me another 2 years LOL, but such great information about the early days of the NFL!!! I have a wrapper and a letter from the Eagles sent back to Chicle about photographs, but have never seen a display case or a Box that held the packs??? Any information would be appreceiated. Good Luck with your set and there are 3 older Grid Iron Greats Magazines with awesome articles about the set and subsets of the 1935 National Chicle set.

[andybecker]

Jeff and John are both very correct.

National Chicle clearly intended on producing more than 36, though 240 may have been a little over zealous.

Hinkle was a great player and a good kicker. kicking was such a huge part of the early game, not all that surprising that they pictured him kicking.

I have an original photograph of Ernie Smith's chicle. unfortunately it doesn't tell much of a story....

Rockne does make sense on some level. it's a tribute card, he's was tragically killed a few years earlier.

Tucker, that's a special letter. if you want to move it, lmk.

great set of truely historical importance.

[jefferyepayne]

It has been an awesome set to collect and learn about, I am 6 away from completion, probably take me another 2 years LOL, but such great information about the early days of the NFL!!! I have a wrapper and a letter from the Eagles sent back to Chicle about photographs, but have never seen a display case or a Box that held the packs??? Any information would be appreceiated. Good Luck with your set and there are 3 older Grid Iron Greats Magazines with awesome articles about the set and subsets of the 1935 National Chicle set.

I have two complete Chicle sets and am looking to sell one of them so let me know which 6 cards you need and perhaps we can make a deal.

Anyone else looking for Chicles should PM me as well.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Thanks so much for the great discussion. I honestly never heard of (George Musso or George Christensen) so I'm going to go back and do some more research. I think I can give them a pass on Don Hutson since I would guess he wasn't well known when the set was printed, but it would have been really interesting if he were in this set. Might his card have been worth more than Nagurski? Mel Hein jumped out at me because he is in the top 100 video from NFL films. I really have an interest in running backs particularly pre Jim Brown. The progression from Battles -> Hinkle -> Van Buren -> Perry - the fact two of them have their 1st cards in this set is awesome to me, Hinkle being shown as a kicker was a bit of a head scratcher - but it makes sense - the rosters were small, guys went both ways - there probably wasn't a specialized kicker carried on a roster till much later.

On a related note, 3 auctions.

I feel bad someone has already bid $1000+ on a "PSA 9 Nagurski": http://www.ebay.com/itm/261341348194?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

But how could you bid on this from a seller with 0 ebay history, etc. etc.

And these, an SGC Nagurski 2 and a PSA Nugurski 2. Which do you guys thing is better?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161162252036?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190978719597?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

[Scott6043]

Hello,


It's a tough call on these, but for me personally I would go with the PSA.

I say PSA because of the paper loss on the SGC, which I personally do not like.

The SGC has a better appearance so I guess it comes down to whether you could live with the paper loss.


Hope this helps

[jefferyepayne]

Thanks so much for the great discussion. I honestly never heard of (George Musso or George Christensen) so I'm going to go back and do some more research. I think I can give them a pass on Don Hutson since I would guess he wasn't well known when the set was printed, but it would have been really interesting if he were in this set. Might his card have been worth more than Nagurski? Mel Hein jumped out at me because he is in the top 100 video from NFL films. I really have an interest in running backs particularly pre Jim Brown. The progression from Battles -> Hinkle -> Van Buren -> Perry - the fact two of them have their 1st cards in this set is awesome to me, Hinkle being shown as a kicker was a bit of a head scratcher - but it makes sense - the rosters were small, guys went both ways - there probably wasn't a specialized kicker carried on a roster till much later.

On a related note, 3 auctions.

I feel bad someone has already bid $1000+ on a "PSA 9 Nagurski": http://www.ebay.com/itm/261341348194?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

But how could you bid on this from a seller with 0 ebay history, etc. etc.

And these, an SGC Nagurski 2 and a PSA Nugurski 2. Which do you guys thing is better?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/161162252036?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190978719597?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Been watching that PSA 9 Nags as well. Someone is going to be very unhappy when they figure out this is a scam.

I personally prefer the SGC Nags. I don't mind a little bit of paper loss on the back of a pre-war card if the front image is clean. From the front this card looks like the PSA 9!

jeff

[clamendo]

I was told that uncut sheets with players above #36 exist with an art decoo background, from someone at the time was a very reliable source... However, I have not personally seen them. Yet : )....maybe if someone asks me on the Gridiron Greats podcast this Weds, I'll tell the story.

[tuckr1]

I would love to see an uncut sheet, and information on a possible display box for the packs??

[jefferyepayne]

I was told that uncut sheets with players above #36 exist with an art decoo background, from someone at the time was a very reliable source... However, I have not personally seen them. Yet : )....maybe if someone asks me on the Gridiron Greats podcast this Weds, I'll tell the story.

+1 Can't wait to hear about it tomorrow night, Carl!

Every football card collector should consider two incredible resources that are out there:

1. The "Gridiron Greats: Football History and Its Memorabilia" podcast broadcasts every two weeks (on Wednesday's at 8pm) and is the only podcast I know of dedicated to football cards and memorabilia. Plus illustrious Net54 member Joe Squires (publius) is the co-host. You can listen live or download previous broadcasts from http://www.blogtalkradio.com/leatherheads

2. Read Gridiron Greats magazine. It's the only publication focused on the history and memorabilia of American football. The other co-host of the Gridiron Greats podcast is Bob Swick who is the editor of Gridiron Greats magazine and is a hard core football card collector as well. The web site for the magazine is www.gridirongreats.net

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

I got a PM from iowadoc77 about Chicle cards but when I try to respond, the Net54 software says you are not accepting PMs and the message cannot be sent. Please PM me your email address so I can respond to you.

jeff

[jefferyepayne]

My thought is that backgrounds are 100% fabricated but I could be wrong. I have looked but have yet to find some of the original photos used for the Chicles...that would answer the question. The building on the card does look like the Cathedral of Learning.

I think this is partially true.

Beattie's Chicle card appears to have been taken from the same vintage photo that the 1977 Touchdown card was:

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgallery/memberfoldersnr/jeffscards/jeffschicles/icons/Feathers77TD.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/ltsgallery/memberfoldersnr/jeffscards/jeffschicles/icons/feathers35chicle.jpg

Note the building image under his left arm. It looks like National Chicle move the building a bit and also made it larger.

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

Great Research! I can't believe you found the photo to answer the question in my original post. Thanks Jeff. Looks like the artist put a building in the background, but wasn't trying to portray the building that was in the background.

On a personal level, my set is off and running and I'm now dead last in the set registry - this should be fun although I'm a little scared about how much the high numbered commons sell for.

[powderfinger]

I've always thought the tall building in the background of Feathers' card was the spire of Rockefeller Chapel on the campus of the University of Chicago. It was built in the late 20s so would have been there when the set came out, and was intentionally designed to be the tallest building on campus.

[jefferyepayne]

Great Research! I can't believe you found the photo to answer the question in my original post. Thanks Jeff. Looks like the artist put a building in the background, but wasn't trying to portray the building that was in the background.

On a personal level, my set is off and running and I'm now dead last in the set registry - this should be fun although I'm a little scared about how much the high numbered commons sell for.

Thanks. I have a bunch of Chicle doubles if you are interested. Send me a PM if you're interested in any of the following:

Rockne PSA 3
Battles PSA 4
Hupke PSA 5 (MC)
Hinkle PSA 6
Burnett PSA 3
Isola PSA 2
Tosi PSA 4
Tosi PSA 3
Kostka PSA 3
MacMurdo PSA 4
Niccolai PSA 4
Smith PSA 4
Johnsos PSA 2

jeff

[TanksAndSpartans]

I googled Rockefeller Chapel on the campus of the University of Chicago and I can totally see it. Since he played for the Bears, it also makes a lot more sense than my guess of the Cathedral of Learning in Pittsburgh.

Jeff, thanks for the list. You'll be hearing from me.