Another Probstein LOL

[bnorth]

Check out the winning bidder on this auction http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Bowman-101-Mickey-Mantle-New-York-Yankees-HOF-BVG-4-5-VG-EX-/370917278271?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2F i.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_udlo%3D%26_ud hi%3D%26_ftrt%3D901%26_ftrv%3D1%26_sabdlo%3D%26_sa bdhi%3D%26_samilow%3D%26_samihi%3D%26_sadis%3D200% 26_fpos%3D%26_fsct%3D%26LH_SALE_CURRENCY%3D0%26_so p%3D10%26_dmd%3D1%26_ipg%3D50%26_nkw%3D37091727827 1%26_rdc%3D1&nma=true&si=4wm1N%252FxcqdD6AksGGLTO85ldw6U%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Now the same exact card is for sale also through Probstein123 and check out the high bidder. LOL yes the same person that won it last time around. http://www.ebay.com/itm/370940311656?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2F i.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_udlo%3D%26_udhi%3D%26_ftrt% 3D901%26_ftrv%3D1%26_sabdlo%3D%26_sabdhi%3D%26_sam ilow%3D%26_samihi%3D%26_sadis%3D200%26_fpos%3D%26_ fsct%3D%26LH_SALE_CURRENCY%3D0%26_sop%3D12%26_dmd% 3D1%26_ipg%3D50%26_nkw%3D370940311656%26_rdc%3D1
That Rick must be a great seller to sell the same card to the same person twice in a few weeks.LOL

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bid History: Details


Bidding Details

Bidder Information
Bidder: 1***a ( 499Feedback score is 100 to 499)
Feedback: 100% Positive
Item description: Item Title: 1952 Bowman #101 Mickey Mantle New York Yankees HOF BVG 4.5 VG-EX+
Bids on this item: 4
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 671
Items bid on: 274
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 84% Help
Bid retractions: 1
Bid retractions (6 months): 4

[Section103]

...and for $160 more!!!

[CMIZ5290]

Oh my God, here we go again. Forget the belly aching, what can be done about it? Has anyone notified Ebay from the past 50- 60 threads that have been started here over the past 2 years?? I highly doubt it... Why does this always happen every 2-3 weeks, but not a freaking thing gets done? What's the point? It's almost like being in the Twilight zone......Oh, and here comes something about Brent and PWCC.....Rick is laughing his ass off all the way to the bank....People are always responding to these threads, "well, it's good for every one to be warned, and know who the bad guys are in the hobby..." But yet, it evidently keeps on happening.... At the end of the day, not a damn thing gets done, so why the wasted energy?

[nsaddict]

And the underbidder with 248 feedbacks, also has 84% bid history with Rick.

[CMIZ5290]

And the underbidder with 248 feedbacks, also has 84% bid history with Rick.

Just to clarify, is this yet another indictment on Rick, or a comfirmation on how stupid people can be, including Ebay?

[nsaddict]

My personal opinion, I don't think Rick spends any time trying to figure any of this stuff out. I think he could and should put more effort into keeping the auctions clean. In this particular auction it's a no brainer. The previous winner is bidding on this exact card again that he had won from Rick less than a month ago. You will get no complaint from Ebay either. I don't like it, but the best thing to combat this is to NOT bid in his auctions. Many will bitch about it but still bid with him??? :mad:

[CMIZ5290]

My personal opinion, I don't think Rick spends any time trying to figure any of this stuff out. I think he could and should put more effort into keeping the auctions clean. In this particular auction it's a no brainer. The previous winner is bidding on this exact card again that he had won from Rick less than a month ago. You will get no complaint from Ebay either. I don't like it, but the best thing to combat this is to NOT bid in his auctions. Many will bitch about it but still bid with him??? :mad:

Richard- I agree, but yet they keep bidding, and bidding, and bidding...How in the hell can Ebay allow this if there is in fact "misconduct" or wrong doing? There have been several threads on this forum pertaining bid shilling and other acts by the Seller that are not allowable, by both Ebay rules and the law in general. But yet, here we are......

[CW]

Oh my God, here we go again. Forget the belly aching, what can be done about it? Has anyone notified Ebay from the past 50- 60 threads that have been started here over the past 2 years?? I highly doubt it... Why does this always happen every 2-3 weeks, but not a freaking thing gets done? What's the point? It's almost like being in the Twilight zone......Oh, and here comes something about Brent and PWCC.....Rick is laughing his ass off all the way to the bank....People are always responding to these threads, "well, it's good for every one to be warned, and know who the bad guys are in the hobby..." But yet, it evidently keeps on happening.... At the end of the day, not a damn thing gets done, so why the wasted energy?

On one hand I can see what you're saying, in that nothing will ultimately be done by Ebay or Rick to put a stop to this.

However, one way that these types of posts could possibly help is by educating the consumer so he or she can make the choice on their own to put an end to it by not bidding on Rick's auctions, or on a broader scale, not bidding on Ebay auctions in general.

Avoiding Ebay altogether is the better solution, imo, since I put the majority of the blame for shill bidding on the shill bidders themselves and Ebay for creating an environment where it can run rampant. I don't put much of the blame, if any, for shill bidding on Probstein or PWCC, as I trust that they do not shill their own auctions.

So while the seller may not have the tools to monitor 1000s of auctions, and while Ebay could give a shit since more bids means more money to their bottom line, these threads can educate consumers to avoid blatant shill bidding.

For the record, I will still occasionally bid on an Ebay auction, as I am addicted to the hobby and it's a necessary evil at times. Still, they've lost A LOT of my business over the years.

[CMIZ5290]

On one hand I can see what you're saying, in that nothing will ultimately be done by Ebay or Rick to put a stop to this.

However, one way that these types of posts could possibly help is by educating the consumer so he or she can make the choice on their own to put an end to it by not bidding on Rick's auctions, or on a broader scale, not bidding on Ebay auctions in general.

Avoiding Ebay altogether is the better solution, imo, since I put the majority of the blame for shill bidding on the shill bidders themselves and Ebay for creating an environment where it can run rampant. I don't put much of the blame, if any, for shill bidding on Probstein or PWCC, as I trust that they do not shill their own auctions.

So while the seller may not have the tools to monitor 1000s of auctions, and while Ebay could give a shit since more bids means more money to their bottom line, these threads can educate consumers to avoid blatant shill bidding.

For the record, I will still occasionally bid on an Ebay auction, as I am addicted to the hobby and it's a necessary evil at times. Still, they've lost A LOT of my business over the years.
Chuck- I hear you. But again going back to my earlier post, avoiding these auctions where there is particular concern has not worked, definitely not worked. People keep coming to the trough to drink as far as these auctions go. My biggest frustration is that if nothing can in fact be done, why in the hell keep harping on it?? Why do we insist on coming back for more and more punishment??

[slidekellyslide]

Chuck- I hear you. But again going back to my earlier post, avoiding these auctions where there is particular concern has not worked, definitely not worked. People keep coming to the trough to drink as far as these auctions go. My biggest frustration is that if nothing can in fact be done, why in the hell keep harping on it?? Why do we insist on coming back for more and more punishment??

Every time one of these posts about Probstein pop up you post more than most, and it's almost always complaining that people are wasting their time. This seems ironic to me.

[autograf]

Hmm....maybe it'll be sold to the underbidder on a second chance.....fishy stuff at best.....

[hangman62]

I agree..it is a waste of time...nothing gets resolved..sour grapes..all that...but if you add this simple phrase at the end of any complaint or bitch

- " IM JUST SAYIN "

....it makes it all acceptable and right

[Pythonfactory]

Aren't new people joining this forum every day? Aren't there members who visit infrequently? Is it a bad decision to educate them on what to look out for when bidding on Ebay?

I've, *gasp*, bid with Brent and watched some items from Probstein since these revelations but you can be damn sure that I've watched the bidder's history on them all, tried to find any previous sales history, and backed away at the first sign of anything fishy. If it weren't for these threads, I would have never known to look and wouldn't have walked away from some items.

To summarize, I completely disagree with you Kevin. Sure, as an individual buyer, I cannot completely change the system but pointing these things out does make a difference, even if its only a small one.

[Sean1125]

Do any single one of you people bashing Rick actually try and send him an E-mail?

He was pretty quick to act when I did.

[bnorth]

Do any single one of you people bashing Rick actually try and send him an E-mail?

He was pretty quick to act when I did.

Yes he probably did act pretty quick for you, you consign a ton of cards through him. Yes members on here have emailed Rick. He was told about a Bill Russell auto he was selling as basketball HOFer Bill Russell when it was really Bill Russell the baseball player who has little to no value. He said thank you for the info but left the auction listing the same.

[Sean1125]

Two very different issues. One can be handled by a return and some hassle, the other is illegal.

[nsaddict]

Just noticed the bidder in question has had his bid canceled less than an hour ago. No doubt in my mind this post had something to do with it!

[deucetwins]

Thanks to this forum, I no longer bid on anything from Probstein123. PWCC is getting close to me drawing the curtain on them as well. The message is getting out.


je.ff Carp.enter

[markf31]

Oh my God, here we go again. Forget the belly aching, what can be done about it? Has anyone notified Ebay from the past 50- 60 threads that have been started here over the past 2 years?? I highly doubt it... Why does this always happen every 2-3 weeks, but not a freaking thing gets done? What's the point? It's almost like being in the Twilight zone......Oh, and here comes something about Brent and PWCC.....Rick is laughing his ass off all the way to the bank....People are always responding to these threads, "well, it's good for every one to be warned, and know who the bad guys are in the hobby..." But yet, it evidently keeps on happening.... At the end of the day, not a damn thing gets done, so why the wasted energy?

I disagree that nothing gets done or accomplished by bringing these items and auctions up for discussion on the board.

I've, *gasp*, bid with Brent and watched some items from Probstein since these revelations but you can be damn sure that I've watched the bidder's history on them all, tried to find any previous sales history, and backed away at the first sign of anything fishy. If it weren't for these threads, I would have never known to look and wouldn't have walked away from some items.

Thanks to this forum, I no longer bid on anything from Probstein123. PWCC is getting close to me drawing the curtain on them as well. The message is getting out.

That's two people who are more aware now of situations like this and have modified their behavior as a direct result of threads like this, and I'll add myself into that group as well and I'm pretty certain the 3 of us are not the only ones.

So while threads like this might not impact the consignors or Ebay significantly and I'll even agree they don't seem to impact consignors or Ebay at all, threads like this do help foster a slightly more informed and protected group of buyers/collectors and I think that's a positive point worthy of the threads being posted.

Think of it this way. Not everyone checks in with the Better Business Bureau before doing business with a company, to research how that particular company ranks with the BBB, or to inquire about that companies complaint and customer satisfaction history. In fact, in just about every instance, I would argue a consumer doesn't know that a particular company rates poorly with the BBB until they have an unsatisfactory experience with that company and choose to file a complaint with the BBB.

So would you argue that filing complaints with the BBB is useless because you never see direct results from your complaint? Your complaint, or a million complaints, to the BBB won't shut a company down, and in many cases a company with a poor BBB history won't change its business practices because the complaints themselves don't change their bottom dollar, so whats the point? The point is the BBB allows consumers an avenue to be a little better informed IF they chose to utilize the information at their disposal and do a little research.

Its my opinion that if each of these threads posted about consignors and items effects just one buyer/collector per thread, creates just one buyer/collector who is just slightly more aware and informed, well I think that's a great thing! I'm sure if you ask that one buyers/collector if they thought the thread accomplished something they would emphatically say yes!

[calvindog]

Mark, of course, is correct. Bringing the fraud to light that repeatedly occurs in Probstein and PWCC auctions can only be a good thing -- unless you are a consigner to these auctions and you're worried about less bidding on your items. That we would have posters on this board complaining about discussions of this fraud is really mind-numbing; however, again, the motives of such naysayers are obvious.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Thanks to this forum, I no longer bid on anything from Probstein123. PWCC is getting close to me drawing the curtain on them as well. The message is getting out.

+1 I am proud to say I that have not bid on any Probstein items since it was confirmed that he condones consignors shilling their own items.

That we would have posters on this board complaining about discussions of this fraud is really mind-numbing...

+1 to this as well.

[ullmandds]

I also have not bid on any Probstein...or PWCC auctions since things have come to light...and if I were to I would scrutinize bidding history with a fine tooth comb.

To say bringing these issues up is not doing anything...is a waste of time...is just plain ignorant.

Seems to me the ones who keep standing up for the accused...are most likely those who have been benefitting from such activities?

[markf31]

Chuck- I hear you. But again going back to my earlier post, avoiding these auctions where there is particular concern has not worked, definitely not worked. People keep coming to the trough to drink as far as these auctions go. My biggest frustration is that if nothing can in fact be done, why in the hell keep harping on it?? Why do we insist on coming back for more and more punishment??

No one is forcing you to read or reply to these threads. If you don't care for them and think they are a waste of time, then don't waste your own time in reading or replying to the threads, let those of us who believe they are worthwhile, devote our time to them.

[Sean1125]

People can assume anything they want, it doesn't mean it is true.

The consigners who don't mess with auctions far exceed those who do.

Why individuals let one, two, even ten auctions out of twenty to thirty thousand in a month affect what they think of Rick is beyond me. The bids are likely from the same few toxic individuals and I would think if pointed out they will either be spoken to and given a warning or banned all together. It didn't seem anyone actually pointed this one out until I had e-mailed Rick.

I would challenge any member here to find a card of mine that they think has an unnatural bidding history, you won't - every card I've ever auctioned I am comfortable with the risk of auction. I've had major "scores" where cards shatter VCP by 60%, 100% - I've had major losses where I've paid $1800 for something and net $1000... Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

[Gradedcardman]

I read about the complaints and agree. I don't see how one person states that others should call eBay but yet they won't. Strange but that's the way it goes.

I consigned to PWCC and did not have any "help" and lost money in the long run. I simply wouldn't shill them up hoping one day maybe I would be able to buy something at a favorable price as well. My mistake.

[nolemmings]

Why individuals let one, two, even ten auctions out of twenty to thirty thousand in a month affect what they think of Rick is beyond me.

So be it.

[Leon]

I read about the complaints and agree. I don't see how one person states that others should call eBay but yet they won't. Strange but that's the way it goes.

I consigned to PWCC and did not have any "help" and lost money in the long run. I simply wouldn't shill them up hoping one day maybe I would be able to buy something at a favorable price as well. My mistake.

You did the right thing. Karma is a killer. Those consignors that are shilling their own stuff will get their just dues. And I also agree with Sean somewhat. I will still bid on Probstein stuff and PWCC stuff but know that I will be very careful in doing so. My only concern with those 2 sellers is that they could maybe do a little more in banning ebayers that have crappy tendencies, which we have all seen. I firmly don't believe Rick or Brent conspire in the shilling. A little more diligence, when called attention to, is all I would ask for.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I firmly don't believe Rick or Brent conspire in the shilling.

It was pointed out to Rick over a year ago that Joe Panky was shilling his own auctions. Rick did absolutely nothing about it. He may not be conspiring in it, but he is certainly condoning it by doing nothing about it and still allowing it to happen. To me, that speaks volumes about Rick's character.

[calvindog]

Yeah, Probstein is clean as a whistle. Here's a Christy Mathewson signed ball which ended on ebay just a couple days ago: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=370937104344

The ball sold for $8990, solely because the underbidder put in a bid at about $1600 above the third bidder for the ball, three days before the ebay auction ended -- and the underbidder just happens to bid in Probstein's auctions 94% of the time. Curiously, the underbidder's bid of $8890 is almost identical to what the ball sold for in the 2013 REA auction ($8887): http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2013/885.html#photos

My guess is that either the underbidder/shill bidder won the ball in the REA auction and didn't want to lose any money on the ebay sale which is why his placeholder bid was identical to the REA price -- or that Rick Probstein himself won the ball in REA and sold it in his own auction above, shilling his own ball.

I'll email Rick now and ask him if this ball was indeed his.

[Leon]

It was pointed out to Rick over a year ago that Joe Panky was shilling his own auctions. Rick did absolutely nothing about it. He may not be conspiring in it, but he is certainly condoning it by doing nothing about it and still allowing it to happen. To me, that speaks volumes about Rick's character.

I am in agreement David. As I said, I think the large ebay sellers need to do more to prevent fraud. By any of them not taking action, when pointed out, I can see your point.


And to Jeff- I would be surprised if Rick won the ball and shills, or has someone else shill, his own auctions. I am not saying that more doesn't need to be done. It does. And I also think these threads help expose issues. Anyone that doesn't see that should stick their head back in the sand.

[smtjoy]

"+1 I am proud to say I that have not bid on any Probstein items since it was confirmed that he condones consignors shilling their own items. "

+2 I have not bid on any of his auctions in over a year, I just cant support this bs. It's been tough as I have had to pass on a ton of cards I would have bid up for sure.

Keep on posting these threads as they do any new members a real service and reinforce those not bidding. Also funny how the same few always come and defend his auctions.

[brewing]

I have stopped bidding on 123 and PWCC auctions because of info from this board.
Brent 1ngr@m


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[Harliduck]

Count me in as well...and I was a regular buyer from Probstein. I don't need that crap, and I am sure I am one of MANY. So yes, this board has taught me many things (hell, I didn't even consider shilling, how naïve is that)...and one is who not to do business with. Thanks.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Ok, so what I don't get it is that if you shill bid and become the winning high bidder, eBay is charging you 10% fvf. That is an expensive game to play IMO. Am I missing something in this discussion?

Jeff

[t206fix]

Ok, so what I don't get it is that if you shill bid and become the winning high bidder, eBay is charging you 10% fvf. That is an expensive game to play IMO. Am I missing something in this discussion?

Jeff

I think that you are allowed to cancel a transaction. The cancelation doesn't show up in any VCP/Cardtarget data, but the buyer/seller discreetly say that the transaction is null and everyone gets back their fees. Wait a few months, and try and sell it again. That's what so concerning about these cards popping up over and over again by the same seller. If I am a consigner, and I sell a card for someone, then I should know it is gone. If the consigner then brings the card back to me to sell again, then I know a. that something is up with the consigner and he's shilling his auctions or b. I'm canceling the transaction and listing at a future date.

That's the great thing about this board and how every little discrepancy is pointed out. Keep these threads coming! Like others have said here, I had no clue that these things were happening until I read it on here. I've purchased items from these guys in the past, and I wonder how many times I've been shilled!!! No more...

[ctownboy]

As a person who has had a recent health scare (and who might not be out of the woods yet), I have a REAL problem with people who shill their own auctions, people who allow it to happen and people who condone such actions.

For those who are defending the people who do these actions, you might not care NOW. However, if you have overpaid for items you have won in auctions (because of shenanigans) and at a later date have to sell them and find that the prices you are selling for are less (maybe even considerably less) then I think you WILL care that you were shilled on those items when you bought them.

If you don't, then your family members or heirs (or whomever is selling the items) certainly will especially if they know how much the items were purchased for and how much they are expecting (hoping) to receive when selling them.....

David

[lharri3600]

Check out the winning bidder on this auction http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Bowman-101-Mickey-Mantle-New-York-Yankees-HOF-BVG-4-5-VG-EX-/370917278271?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2F i.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sacat%3D0%26_udlo%3D%26_ud hi%3D%26_ftrt%3D901%26_ftrv%3D1%26_sabdlo%3D%26_sa bdhi%3D%26_samilow%3D%26_samihi%3D%26_sadis%3D200% 26_fpos%3D%26_fsct%3D%26LH_SALE_CURRENCY%3D0%26_so p%3D10%26_dmd%3D1%26_ipg%3D50%26_nkw%3D37091727827 1%26_rdc%3D1&nma=true&si=4wm1N%252FxcqdD6AksGGLTO85ldw6U%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Now the same exact card is for sale also through Probstein123 and check out the high bidder. LOL yes the same person that won it last time around. http://www.ebay.com/itm/370940311656?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2F i.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_udlo%3D%26_udhi%3D%26_ftrt% 3D901%26_ftrv%3D1%26_sabdlo%3D%26_sabdhi%3D%26_sam ilow%3D%26_samihi%3D%26_sadis%3D200%26_fpos%3D%26_ fsct%3D%26LH_SALE_CURRENCY%3D0%26_sop%3D12%26_dmd% 3D1%26_ipg%3D50%26_nkw%3D370940311656%26_rdc%3D1
That Rick must be a great seller to sell the same card to the same person twice in a few weeks.LOL

Hold on,
Yes it's the same card, but it looks like 2 different winners. What am I missing?? Is it possible 1***a won it in October then Member Id: l***x (1761) won it in November?

[nsaddict]

Larry,

1***a bid high on it the second time around but bid was cancelled. Scroll all the way to the bottom of the bid history. Don't know who he is but I feel comfortable labeling him a slim ball!

[Exhibitman]

I agree that exposing these shills over and over is helpful to the people who might not have read the past exposes. At least no one on N54 who reads one of these threads can get ripped off by Probstein or PWCC but claim that they did not know. It may be dull to hear what is effectively the same story again, but the solution is not to read it. The titles are clear enough.

As for eBay, don't hold your breath: its management actively encourages shilling. Used to be a piece of cake to figure out who was shilling; just cross-reference the shilling account with the seller's account. That is how Broadway Rick got nailed:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3078735/

eBay tackled the challenge posed by shill bidders by hiding the identities of the underbidders. It greatly reduced the number of complaints about shilling not because the activity ceased but because no one could prove it any longer.

[lharri3600]

Larry,

1***a bid high on it the second time around but bid was cancelled. Scroll all the way to the bottom of the bid history. Don't know who he is but I feel comfortable labeling him a slim ball!

Thanks Richard:D

[CMIZ5290]

Every time one of these posts about Probstein pop up you post more than most, and it's almost always complaining that people are wasting their time. This seems ironic to me.

Delete....not worth it..

[ullmandds]

convincing retort, Kevin?!

[jlehma13]

Almost pulled the trigger on a lot of t206's but the high bidder and eventual winner had near 20 bid retractions in 6 months. Still went for a reasonable price but I have to say, after all the chatter here, I was turned off. Perhaps I will see them again...

[drcy]

Those who don't mind being shilled haven't yet sold their collection. I have yet to hear of a collector who was pleased to learn his item sells for 40% less than what he paid.

[Runscott]

I agree that exposing these shills over and over is helpful to the people who might not have read the past exposes. At least no one on N54 who reads one of these threads can get ripped off by Probstein or PWCC but claim that they did not know. It may be dull to hear what is effectively the same story again, but the solution is not to read it. The titles are clear enough.

As for eBay, don't hold your breath: its management actively encourages shilling. Used to be a piece of cake to figure out who was shilling; just cross-reference the shilling account with the seller's account. That is how Broadway Rick got nailed:

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/3078735/

eBay tackled the challenge posed by shill bidders by hiding the identities of the underbidders. It greatly reduced the number of complaints about shilling not because the activity ceased but because no one could prove it any longer.

Great post, Adam. I can't help but believe ebay will eventually face legal repercussions for encouraging illegal activity.

[drcy]

In a defense of eBay, I'm sure one reason they block bidder ids was to prevent off eBay sales. I think trying to prevent this was legitimate on their part, as many buyers and sellers abused the system that way.

Having said that, one essential eBay newbie tip I used to give was never to bid in an auction that hid bidder ids, as the practice was mostly used to prevent nefarious activity including shilling and to prevent others from tipping off bidders that an item was a fake or a scam. Then eBay turned and made all bidder ids private.

If it were up to me, bidder ids would be shown, but, as is often the case, eBay users who tried to game the system (breaking the user agreement by using eBay as a cheap advertising for off site sales) are part of the reason eBay hides the ids.

In short, every one's going to Hell. Oh sorry, Leon, I meant to say Heck.

[hangman62]

I have and will continue to bid and buy from Probstein .
Never had a single problem or issue
He gets his hands on loads of good stuff
prices are prices...bidding get carried away sometimes...if you dont like it then dont bid
Why must cry babys keep bringing up the same old sour grapes
You dont think the big auction houses " protect" their rare items in one way or another ?..good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?
The guys sells tons of stuff... he must be doing something right

Ralph G

[Rob D.]

I wonder if eBay had never shown bidders identities in the first place (email addresses in the early days, followed by user IDs), would people object now to not being able to see them? The reason I wonder is because I don't know of a single auction house in our hobby that shows bidder ids of any kind in its online auctions. Yet that doesn't seem to be an issue for most people, but the inability to see identities on eBay is.

[bobbyw8469]

I have yet to hear of a collector who was pleased to learn his item sells for 40% less than what he paid.

Happens all the time. Welcome to Ebay. I have actually lost more than 40% on items before. Nature of the beast when you run 99 cent auctions.

[drcy]

I should clarify. When I said everyone's going to Hell, I didn't mean me. I'm clean. Or at least I apologized profusely.

[calvindog]

I have and will continue to bid and buy from Probstein .
Never had a single problem or issue
He gets his hands on loads of good stuff
prices are prices...bidding get carried away sometimes...if you dont like it then dont bid
Why must cry babys keep bringing up the same old sour grapes
You dont think the big auction houses " protect" their rare items in one way or another ?..good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?
The guys sells tons of stuff... he must be doing something right

Ralph G

I've seen some idiotic posts on Net 54 but this one might take the cake, right up there with San Quentin.

[Cardboard Junkie]

I should clarify. When I said everyone's going to Hell, I didn't mean me. I'm clean. Or at least I apologized profusely.

Well, it's easier to ask for forgiveness, than to beg for permission.:D

[Runscott]

I have and will continue to bid and buy from Probstein .
Never had a single problem or issue
He gets his hands on loads of good stuff
prices are prices...bidding get carried away sometimes...if you dont like it then dont bid
Why must cry babys keep bringing up the same old sour grapes
You dont think the big auction houses " protect" their rare items in one way or another ?..good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?
The guys sells tons of stuff... he must be doing something right

Ralph G

Ralph gets it. Thanks for posting this, Ralph.

When my Mom would catch me with my hand in the cookie jar, I always argued that after she punished my sister, I was more than willing to submit to a similar punishment. Funny, I got my ass beat anyway. :confused:

Perhaps I should have used the argument that my Sister was fat and happy from all the stolen cookie calories, so she must be doing something right.

[Leon]

I have and will continue to bid and buy from Probstein .
Never had a single problem or issue
He gets his hands on loads of good stuff
prices are prices...bidding get carried away sometimes...if you dont like it then dont bid
Why must cry babys keep bringing up the same old sour grapes
You dont think the big auction houses " protect" their rare items in one way or another ?..good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?
The guys sells tons of stuff... he must be doing something right

Ralph G

Is this post a joke? Is it April fools day again?

1. He gets his hands on loads of stuff.- Well good for him. But it has nothing to do with what is being talked about.
2. Prices are prices- Most idiotic statement, in the context of this thread, that I have seen in a while. The problem is, prices we see aren't real prices, they are shilled. So, no, prices aren't prices.
3. Cry babys (sic) keep bringing up sour grapes. Yes, and each time a bank robber robs a bank, darn it, it makes the news again.
4. Big auctions protecting their rare items? Of course, it's called a reserve or a higher opening bid. Just like a consignor could tell Rick if he wanted to. That would be the moral and legal way to do it. And yes, there are a few hobbyists in a lot of hot water for doing it the wrong way.
5. The guy sells a ton of stuff, he must be doing something right. I think Rick is probably a very hard worker and is smart. A little more due diligence, when issues are brought to his attention, is all some of us are asking ie...ban bidders with a gazillion retractions and other issues. And maybe part of the reason he gets stuff is that the consignors know they can protect their consignments by shilling.


And I just want to make sure you are serious in believing what you wrote? It's hard for me to imagine anyone could really believe what you wrote. It's freaking crazy.


.

[CW]

I have and will continue to bid and buy from Probstein .
Never had a single problem or issue
He gets his hands on loads of good stuff
prices are prices...bidding get carried away sometimes...if you dont like it then dont bid
Why must cry babys keep bringing up the same old sour grapes
You dont think the big auction houses " protect" their rare items in one way or another ?..good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?
The guys sells tons of stuff... he must be doing something right

Ralph G

wow, this post has so much fail I don't even know where to begin!

[Sean1125]

Does anyone have suggestions to help?

Since some of you seem to think consigners are the only ones Rick listens to I will be happy to voice quality suggestions to him.

[CMIZ5290]

Is this post a joke? Is it April fools day again?

1. He gets his hands on loads of stuff.- Well good for him. But it has nothing to do with what is being talked about.
2. Prices are prices- Most idiotic statement, in the context of this thread, that I have seen in a while. The problem is, prices we see aren't real prices, they are shilled. So, no, prices aren't prices.
3. Cry babys (sic) keep bringing up sour grapes. Yes, and each time a bank robber robs a bank, darn it, it makes the news again.
4. Big auctions protecting their rare items? Of course, it's called a reserve or a higher opening bid. Just like a consignor could tell Rick if he wanted to. That would be the moral and legal way to do it. And yes, there are a few hobbyists in a lot of hot water for doing it the wrong way.
5. The guy sells a ton of stuff, he must be doing something right. I think Rick is probably a very hard worker and is smart. A little more due diligence, when issues are brought to his attention, is all some of us are asking ie...ban bidders with a gazillion retractions and other issues. And maybe part of the reason he gets stuff is that the consignors know they can protect their consignments by shilling.


And I just want to make sure you are serious in believing what you wrote? It's hard for me to imagine anyone could really believe what you wrote. It's freaking crazy.


.
Leon- I want to ask a stupid question, nothing to do with the majority of your post....How many people on this board, being 100% completely honest, have either engaged in shilling or had it done or their behalf? I'm just curious, be honest....I personally know of 2 fellow collectors (nameless) who told me they did in the hopes of getting higher prices for their cards....Would it be fair to say that this is a plague to our hobby?

[Leon]

Does anyone have suggestions to help?

Since some of you seem to think consigners are the only ones Rick listens to I will be happy to voice quality suggestions to him.

Sean- Lets start with an easy one. Anyone with more than 7 bid retractions in the last year can't bid with him. Keep it simple, that is all I am asking.

Most good ebayers, of which I hope to include myself, haven't had that many in 10+ yrs. I think I might have had 1, in over 14 yrs, but honestly can't even remember that, specifically.

[CMIZ5290]

Sean- Lets start with an easy one. Anyone with more than 7 bid retractions in the last year can't bid with him. Keep it simple, that is all I am asking.

Most good ebayers, of which I hope to include myself, haven't had that many in 10+ yrs. I think I might have had 1, in over 14 yrs, but honestly can't even remember that, specifically.

+1, agree completely....

[Eric72]

...good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?


Just the good ol' boys
Never meanin' no harm
Beats all you never saw
Been in trouble with the law
Since they took it online

Screwin' with bids
Paddin' the sales
Someday the bidders
Might get 'em
But the law never will

Makin' their way
The only way they know how
That's just a little bit more
Than the law should allow

Just the good ol' boys
Wouldn't change if they could
Fixin' the system
Like a true Internet Auction Hood

[Leon]

Leon- I want to ask a stupid question, nothing to do with the majority of your post....How many people on this board, being 100% completely honest, have either engaged in shilling or had it done or their behalf? I'm just curious, be honest....I personally know of 2 fellow collectors (nameless) who told me they did in the hopes of getting higher prices for their cards....Would it be fair to say that this is a plague to our hobby?

Shilling? I don't do it. I haven't asked anyone to bid on my stuff before either. Maybe that is the reason I lose money often when I sell? :( But to answer your question, yes I think it's prevalent and I think it's a big problem. I don't know if I would call it a plague?

[CMIZ5290]

Shilling? I don't do it. I haven't asked anyone to bid on my stuff before either. Maybe that is the reason I lose money often when I sell? :( But to answer your question, yes I think it's prevalent and I think it's a big problem. I don't know if I would call it a plague?
Me neither Leon, but trust me when I say, we are the minority, period......

[CMIZ5290]

Just the good ol' boys
Never meanin' no harm
Beats all you never saw
Been in trouble with the law
Since they took it online

Screwin' with bids
Paddin' the sales
Someday the bidders
Might get 'em
But the law never will

Makin' their way
The only way they know how
That's just a little bit more
Than the law should allow

Just the good ol' boys
Wouldn't change if they could
Fixin' the system
Like a true Internet Auction Hood
Damn Eric, I've got to ask, how long did it take you to write that??

[vintagetoppsguy]

Does anyone have suggestions to help?

Since some of you seem to think consigners are the only ones Rick listens to I will be happy to voice quality suggestions to him.

Sean- Lets start with an easy one. Anyone with more than 7 bid retractions in the last year can't bid with him. Keep it simple, that is all I am asking.

+1

Here's another easy one. If it's pointed out to Rick (which it has been) that certain consigners are shilling, then ban that individual from consigning or bidding with him in the future. How hard is that?

Sean, the next time you talk to Rick, ask him a simple question: "Why didn't you ban Joe P from future auctions when he was caught shill bidding over a year ago, and why haven't you banned him since as he's been caught doing it again?" I would love to hear his answer.

[bnorth]

Leon- I want to ask a stupid question, nothing to do with the majority of your post....How many people on this board, being 100% completely honest, have either engaged in shilling or had it done or their behalf? I'm just curious, be honest....I personally know of 2 fellow collectors (nameless) who told me they did in the hopes of getting higher prices for their cards....Would it be fair to say that this is a plague to our hobby?

I have been buying/selling on ebay since 96 or 97 and I have never shilled any auction for myself or anyone else. I also have never retracted a single bid in that time.

As far as what Rick could do, I think he should have a 1 strike and you are out policy for anyone that shills there items he is selling.

[Eric72]

Damn Eric, I've got to ask, how long did it take you to write that??

Kevin,

It took me just a moment. Please know that I do not have a horse in this race. I have never placed a bid with the auctioneers mentioned in this thread.

Best,

Eric

[hangman62]

Wow,
I got myself smack dab in the middle of a good ole hootin and hollerin contest with dem thar Good Ole Boys !

Leon,

You ripped into my points pretty good ! LOL

Oh you forgot to comment on my first point -
Ive been bidding and will continue to bid on Probstein stuff ( and lets be honest..look at all the action/bidders on his stuff he gets thousands of bids...Im sure half the members of Net54 bid on his items..and they must be OK with it ?? ) .

I see you guys point ..all this talk of shills and questionable items...but for a long time fun loving lower grade cheapskate collector like me..... Who Cares !

Dont bid ... then maybe I can get that beat up T205 Cobb a bit cheaper

And that question that was raised by someone about shill bidding....come on guys..lets be honest.... Of the Thousands of members of net54.... I would say 50% have done some "type" of shill bidding at least once...

[Eric72]

Of the Thousands of members of net54.... I would say 50% have done some "type" of shill bidding at least once...

Ralph,

No, I have not engaged in shilling. Sorry to contribute to proving you wrong.

Best,

Eric

[drcy]

...

[hangman62]

Yea, OK Eric,...now were just waiting on truthful responses from the other 11,999 members

[t206fix]

Yea, OK Eric,...now were just waiting on truthful responses from the other 11,999 members

Ok, I'll come clean. In 1983, I shoplifted a pack of Topps cards from the Ben Franklin in Lander, Wyoming. I swear there was not any thing good in there...

Well, to be truthful, I was looking for Pete Rose, but their might have been a Gwynn, Boggs or Sandberg...

All my friends were doing it...

At least it wasn't Donruss pack...

[Cardboard Junkie]

Yea, OK Eric,...now were just waiting on truthful responses from the other 11,999 members

I did not have sex with that woman.

[drmondobueno]

I don't shill because I have not sold thru an auction house or eBay. Have had it done to me on items I've purchased, and I resent it. I watch it these days. But I am so dang dumb on this stuff it could be happening as I speak!

BTW, there is a thread going now talking about a backstamped t206 card, I believe a Probstein auction. The current bidder has something like 28 retractions. And yes, I have purchased cards from Rick in the past. I would not touch this one.

Keith Temple

[frankbmd]

Shall I Shill my Shell today?
Is the question of the day.

What would somebody pay?
With the corners cropped away.

Yeah, I’d like to make a buck
But with my incredible luck

I wouldn’t get a 10
And have to submit again.

With whom should I consign?
Perhaps a friend of mine.

What chance of being caught?
I figure close to naught

Is there a jail for shillers?
Does it have bars or pillars?

What games do shillers play?
To pass the time away.

Do they shill each other?
or do they shill their mother?

And what’s a shiller’s savior?
Release for good behavior.

Shall I shill my Shell today?
It’s my will - I’ll find a way

What would somebody pay?
One or two or perhaps 3K.

[t206fix]

Frank Burkett, Poet, Wine Connoiseur, Lover*!

*Lover of rare baseball cards.

[Acollector]

He may not be conspiring in it, but he is certainly condoning it by doing nothing about it and still allowing it to happen. To me, that speaks volumes about Rick's character.

What character? I am unfortunately a victim of his thanks to only seeing a very old post here talking mostly positively about him. I'm going to start a thread about my terrible experience with him. I've been to his "office" in Passaic where he lists his stuff. Once I get the whole thing together, I will post it. This guy belongs in prison for a number of reasons which I will bring up in that thread.

By the way, in the eyes of ethical people, if you witness a crime and do nothing to stop it, then you aren't that much better than the criminal.

There is a way to stop him. The shill bidding is most likely interstate fraud, which would involve the FBI. No one thought that crook Bill Mastro could be brought down. What happened to him? Everyone needs to file repeated complaints to the FBI, to the IRS, to their state's Attorney General. I would say local police, but they wouldn't do anything. Contact media outlets from the internet and other venues. He can be brought down very easily, but with time and with some effort. What happened to good old American know how? Was that outsourced as well? I am going to do my best to bring this trash down. The only way our government and law enforcement ever does anything is to shut up the people that constantly complain to them. If you keep complaining to the FBI, they will eventually begin watching him. It will be worth the effort in the end.

By the way, why would he stop allowing shilling if people keep bidding? It only makes him more money, and it's clear his world revolves around taking every penny he can from everyone. I for one will never do business with this trash again. I wish I had seen these threads about him instead of the ones praising him. I would have never consigned with him.


+1

[/B] I would love to hear his answer.

He ignores answering questions that expose him or put him in a negative light, so unless you ask him 15 times, he most likely will ignore it. That is obvious guilt.

[Acollector]

I have and will continue to bid and buy from Probstein .
Never had a single problem or issue
He gets his hands on loads of good stuff
prices are prices...bidding get carried away sometimes...if you dont like it then dont bid
Why must cry babys keep bringing up the same old sour grapes
You dont think the big auction houses " protect" their rare items in one way or another ?..good ole boys secretly bidding on their own stuff ?
The guys sells tons of stuff... he must be doing something right

Ralph G

I'm sure a lot of people liked (insert any evil dictator through history) because none of their relatives were killed by him and they were able to get a job during his reign while disregarding some of that other stuff he was doing to others because it did not affect them. I guess with your logic, (Insert any evil dictator through history) was great and must have been doing something right since he was in power and plenty of people were cheering at his speeches, therefore what could go wrong? People like you enable criminals and help make them more successful while everyone else gets screwed over thanks to you.

Fraud is illegal regardless of whether it gets you a good price on what you want. Using your logic you would be ok with it if a car you were buying came to you at a good price because it was stolen from someone else as long as the price was a steal.

You most likely think we have an honest government running as well since they got elected, they must be doing something right. Keep being blind, it will bite you pretty hard one day.

It was reading posts like yours a few months ago that got me screwed over dealing with him.

[Seattle799]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

[Runscott]

Yea, OK Eric,...now were just waiting on truthful responses from the other 11,999 members

Perhaps you simply hold yourself to a lower standard than the rest of us, and pretending that we're all behaving like you makes you feel like a better person?

[drcy]

...

[hangman62]

Come on Acollector... being a little dramatic arent you ?

Going on about Hitler, stolen cars, criminals, honest government !

Im just saying that lots of collectors at one time of another have done some type of shill bidding

How did a post of mine once cause you to get screwed over by Probstein ?

Come on RunScott..Im just giving my opinion ..no need to start the personal insults.....but really..I dont care...like I said many times...I love posts like this that get hotly contested/ long winded/ nasty/etc.. I find it entertaining

[Stonepony]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Well done!

[markf31]

Does anyone have suggestions to help?

Since some of you seem to think consigners are the only ones Rick listens to I will be happy to voice quality suggestions to him.

Sean- Lets start with an easy one. Anyone with more than 7 bid retractions in the last year can't bid with him. Keep it simple, that is all I am asking.

Most good ebayers, of which I hope to include myself, haven't had that many in 10+ yrs. I think I might have had 1, in over 14 yrs, but honestly can't even remember that, specifically.

+1

Here's another easy one. If it's pointed out to Rick (which it has been) that certain consigners are shilling, then ban that individual from consigning or bidding with him in the future. How hard is that?

Sean, the next time you talk to Rick, ask him a simple question: "Why didn't you ban Joe P from future auctions when he was caught shill bidding over a year ago, and why haven't you banned him since as he's been caught doing it again?" I would love to hear his answer.

I would propose that Rick institute a rule in every one of his listings, that every bidder would agree to when they place a bid, something along the lines of:

No bidder with more than 2 bid retractions in the past 6 months is eligible to bid on this auction. Any bidder who wins an auction and has more than 2 bid retractions in the past 6 months will forfeit the auction. (this is to eliminate last second snipe bids that Rick would be unable to monitor and cancel prior to the end of the auction)

The item could then be re-listed.

Now if Rick is able to determine that the bidder(s) in these situations are shilling for the seller, he should return the card to the consignor and ban the bidder and consignor and refuse to do business with the consignor. Period.

I do not sell on Ebay, so what I propose may not even be possible. I'm pretty sure that sellers are allowed to insert their own binding bidding rules as long as they do not violate current Ebay policies. And I'm not sure how consignment sellers could handle the Ebay fees charged to them after the conclusion of an auction in such a situation. Would Ebay dismiss the fees under this situation since the "winner" violated one of the seller stpulated rules? or not? Since I don't sell I'm not sure of all of this, but its an idea that popped into my head.

[jhs5120]

I've hired an armed guard to make sure I don't over bid on auctions, I suggest posters here do the same. I can't help myself otherwise.

[4815162342]

I've hired an armed guard to make sure I don't over bid on auctions, I suggest posters here do the same. I can't help myself otherwise.

Get married and you won't need an armed guard to make sure you don't overbid on auctions.

[calvindog]

Regarding the Probstein Mathewson signed ball auction which ended a couple days ago: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=370937104344

The ball sold for $8990, solely because the underbidder put in a bid at about $1600 above the third bidder for the ball, three days before the ebay auction ended -- and the underbidder just happens to bid in Probstein's auctions 94% of the time. Curiously, the underbidder's bid of $8890 is almost identical to what the ball sold for in the 2013 REA auction ($8887): http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2013/885.html#photos This bid of $8990 was placed a few days before the auction ended, solely to provide a floor/shill bid, presumably to ensure that the owner of the ball didn't lose any money following his purchase of the ball in REA.

I emailed Rick from the Mathewson auction listing and the following dialogue occurred:

1) Rick -- were you the owner of this ball which just sold in your auction?

Response: which ball ?


2) The Mathewson ball.

Response: consignor .....I owned the ruth ball though


3) Would you permit Rob Lifson to answer my question if you are not, in fact, the winner of that Mathewson ball from his auction?

No response


4) So are you saying that you consigned the Mathewson ball but didn't own it? How can you consign something you don't own?

Response: I'm not gonna be online, if something is pressing try me at 973 747 6304 , all our transactions are confidential...both buyers and consignors....


5) Rick,

I'm not asking for you to betray the confidence of a buyer or consignor. I'm simply asking if you bought the Mathewson ball in the REA auction. You denied that you were the owner of the ball but said you were the consignor. To me, if you consigned the ball that means you own it. Again, I don't wish to know who purchased the Mathewson ball in the REA auction unless it's you.

Jeff Lichtman

Response: jeff, your not understanding my emails....we're having email confusion..lets try again....

I bought the matty from REA , sold it privately , and the guy didn't like so it was consigned to us...
I bought the ruth ball from either REA or legendary or huggins, don't recall, and I was the owner who sold it....

the names of all my consignors are private as are the winning bidders....


6) Rick,

Are you aware that the underbidder of your Matty ball auction bids on your auctions 94% of the time? And that the bid he/she put in was almost to the dollar the amount that YOU paid for in the REA auction for that ball? Presuming you didn't sell the ball to him for exactly what you paid for it from REA, don't you find it interesting that the underbidder put in a placeholder bid 3 days before your ebay auction ended which matches what YOU paid for it on REA?

Jeff

Response: I wasn't aware of this...were u the winner of the ball ?


7) You don't know the winner of an auction of yours which ended a couple days ago?

Response: typicallyno
we currently run 20,000 auctions a month...I had 20 staff people here today...I spend the lionshare of my time keeping them busy..

when people email me or call when they see a problem I do act..
the mantle bvg card auction was emailed to me and I cancelled the bids on it....


8) That's wonderful -- but you didn't address what I asked, namely, that fraud obviously occurred in this auction and considering it was a ball which you bought in an REA auction shouldn't something be done about it?

No response


9) So do you think you should void the auction result and let the winner know that he was defrauded the difference between the bids of the second and third bids on the ball? It's fairly obvious that fraud occurred, no?

Response: I'm gonna first contact the consignor and get more info....


**This conversation was two days ago, that's the last I've heard from Rick about this auction.

[Ease]

Those responses from Rick P. are very disconcerting. Feign ignorance, change the subject, indirect answers. It's a big money train and a lot of folks are banking, some are members here. So simple, consign/shill/count profit. I want to be angry, but instead I'm just disappointed.

[Acollector]

Regarding the Probstein Mathewson signed ball auction which ended a couple days ago: http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=370937104344

I emailed Rick from the Mathewson auction listing and the following dialogue occurred:

1) Rick -- were you the owner of this ball which just sold in your auction?

Response: which ball ?


2) The Mathewson ball.

Response: consignor .....I owned the ruth ball though


3) Would you permit Rob Lifson to answer my question if you are not, in fact, the winner of that Mathewson ball from his auction?

No response


4) So are you saying that you consigned the Mathewson ball but didn't own it? How can you consign something you don't own?

Response: I'm not gonna be online, if something is pressing try me at 973 747 6304 , all our transactions are confidential...both buyers and consignors....


5) Rick,

I'm not asking for you to betray the confidence of a buyer or consignor. I'm simply asking if you bought the Mathewson ball in the REA auction. You denied that you were the owner of the ball but said you were the consignor. To me, if you consigned the ball that means you own it. Again, I don't wish to know who purchased the Mathewson ball in the REA auction unless it's you.

Jeff Lichtman

Response: jeff, your not understanding my emails....we're having email confusion..lets try again....

I bought the matty from REA , sold it privately , and the guy didn't like so it was consigned to us...
I bought the ruth ball from either REA or legendary or huggins, don't recall, and I was the owner who sold it....

the names of all my consignors are private as are the winning bidders....


6) Rick,

Are you aware that the underbidder of your Matty ball auction bids on your auctions 94% of the time? And that the bid he/she put in was almost to the dollar the amount that YOU paid for in the REA auction for that ball? Presuming you didn't sell the ball to him for exactly what you paid for it from REA, don't you find it interesting that the underbidder put in a placeholder bid 3 days before your ebay auction ended which matches what YOU paid for it on REA?

Jeff

Response: I wasn't aware of this...were u the winner of the ball ?


7) You don't know the winner of an auction of yours which ended a couple days ago?

Response: typicallyno
we currently run 20,000 auctions a month...I had 20 staff people here today...I spend the lionshare of my time keeping them busy..

when people email me or call when they see a problem I do act..
the mantle bvg card auction was emailed to me and I cancelled the bids on it....


8) That's wonderful -- but you didn't address what I asked, namely, that fraud obviously occurred in this auction and considering it was a ball which you bought in an REA auction shouldn't something be done about it?

No response


9) So do you think you should void the auction result and let the winner know that he was defrauded the difference between the bids of the second and third bids on the ball? It's fairly obvious that fraud occurred, no?

Response: I'm gonna first contact the consignor and get more info....


**This conversation was two days ago, that's the last I've heard from Rick about this auction.


He will keep ignoring the stuff that shows he may be guilty or makes it clearer that he might not be a good guy. The no response is typical of him because the honest answer might expose him so he won't incriminate himself. The 20 staff comment is trying to make himself look like a big shot and make him sound oh so important and busy. I have seen his "staff" and will elaborate in a few days. That call me you aren't understanding me BS is most likely to buy him some time to come up with a "legitimate" sounding answer or he figures you won't call him. Offering to talk on the phone gives an illusion of "I have nothing to hide". He figures that you most likely won't call him. I wouldn't be surprised if you do call him, that he claims he's too busy to talk or he is driving to get rid of you.

The we run 20,000 a month is for two reasons. The "we" is "I". It's his ID, he is not a company. He is one guy, but saying we makes it sound like a company and people are harder on an individual than a company. The 20,000 auctions is an excuse for "we are just so busy we don't have the time to look at every detail." When you don't have the time to do things right, DON'T DO THEM or hire enough people that can do things right.

"I bought the matty from REA , sold it privately , and the guy didn't like so it was consigned to us" That makes absolutely no sense. If I buy something from someone and don't like it, I ask for a refund. I don't have him consign it to risk it selling for less than what I paid.

I ask, why would a money hungry type that wants every penny he can get (as he appears to be in my opinion) stop shill bidding on his items (assuming he isn't doing it himself in some of them) from others if it has not affected his sales? Obviously an honest person or someone with ethics that isn't a thief or isn't a greedy trash bag would put a stop to it. One bid retraction ban would be what a person with integrity does, but from my experience with Problemstein is that he has no integrity in my opinion.

[ullmandds]

I'm not at all surprised by this lack of response...we've seen it before...we'll see it again. I certainly appreciate you, Jeff L, for making this effort to help clean up the hobby!

[Acollector]

Come on Acollector... being a little dramatic arent you ?



It's a legitimate analogy because you are saying you don't care whom he screws over as long as you don't get screwed over and can benefit from him. I never said it was your post. I said it was posts like yours.


I would propose that Rick institute a rule in every one of his listings, that every bidder would agree to when they place a bid, something along the lines of:

No bidder with more than 2 bid retractions in the past 6 months is eligible to bid on this auction. Any bidder who wins an auction and has more than 2 bid retractions in the past 6 months will forfeit the auction. (this is to eliminate last second snipe bids that Rick would be unable to monitor and cancel prior to the end of the auction)

The item could then be re-listed.

Now if Rick is able to determine that the bidder(s) in these situations are shilling for the seller, he should return the card to the consignor and ban the bidder and consignor and refuse to do business with the consignor. Period.



He will never do this because it won't make him money, at least not in the short run.



Get married and you won't need an armed guard to make sure you don't overbid on auctions.


I'd have a better chance at surviving a gun shot than be nagged to death.

[Pythonfactory]

Thanks for posting that conversation Jeff. When this thread was first made, I was in the "I'd maybe bid on a Probstein item after doing some investigation and if it isn't an easy item to acquire elsewhere" camp. Now I'm clearly in the "No way in hell would I ever bid on a Probstein item" camp. There are so many people/auction houses selling pre-war cards so why would I support one that is obviously lacking in the ethics department? Hopefully this thread encourages others to take their money elsewhere because that is the most impactful thing we can do in this situation.

[dog*dirt]

It would be interesting to see an anonymous poll as to whether or not these shilling allegations have had an impact in regards to collectors choosing to bid or not to bid in his auctions.

[Cardboard Junkie]

But what if he has stuff I NEED? Doesn't STUFF trump everything?:confused:(jk)

[Acollector]

But what if he has stuff I NEED? Doesn't STUFF trump everything?:confused:(jk)

Sadly, that's how many see it until they get screwed over, and then come back to say Jebus help me!


It would be interesting to see an anonymous poll as to whether or not these shilling allegations have had an impact in regards to collectors choosing to bid or not to bid in his auctions.

I don't need anonymity. I will never do business with him again. From my experience with him, all I see is a weasel with no spine that will lie and cheat as much as he can to take what he can. It's safe to say I won't be joining his fan club any time soon.

[Exhibitman]

Yes, David, it does. Except when it doesn't. I will not even consider a Probstein auction now. Unless he has something I really want. Then I will hold my nose and bid. If I refused to do business with every convicted felon, indicted alleged felon, or overall skeevy creep out there I'd never get any new cards. And that won't do. How do I die with the most toys if I don't play the game?

Interesting suggestion about seller-implemented rules. However, I am not sure eBay will allow you to enforce rules that go beyond its own rules.

[Bocabirdman]

Sadly, that's how many see it until they get screwed over, and then come back to say Jebus help me!




I don't need anonymity. I will never do business with him again. From my experience with him, all I see is a weasel with no spine that will lie and cheat as much as he can to take what he can. It's safe to say I won't be joining his fan club any time soon.

"Jebus"? Is that the shuttle to Sunday Service?:D

[Acollector]

"Jebus"? Is that the shuttle to Sunday Service?:D

You knows it stranga. Straight form Bug Tussle Tennessee I reckon. Sometimes these sellers make me angrier than a cockroach when the lights are turned on. :D

[vintagetoppsguy]

Straight form Bug Tussle Tennessee

That's where the Beverly Hillbillies were from :D

[wonkaticket]

get married and you won't need an armed guard to make sure you don't overbid on auctions.

lol :d

[D. Bergin]

I don't do bad stuff not so much because I chose not to, but because I don't even think of it.

Also, I'm lazy and shilling sounds like too much work.


Similar here LOL! Been running auctions on Ebay since '99 or so. Never even thought of it, and don't really understand the point, though I see the accusation getting thrown around constantly, whether deserved or not.

I'd like to think, the vast majority of sellers out there think the same way and I'm not an anomaly or anything special.

[GoldenAge50s]

I have not posted in this thread previously, but for the record I would NOT ever bid in one of Rick's auctions after reading this thread.

I'm sure I may not be the only one who has not commented but made this decision. Perhaps it's because I've become more scrupulous as I've gotten older.

[hangman62]

wow, this thread is getting hot...Im starting to get enjoy it.

Look guys, like someone just said..its all about " stuff you need" ..if its "stuff you need" ..all bets are off !..hell some guys will bid on stuff they dont need just to drive up the price, or keep arch enemys from having it...I know a guy who will bid on stuff wildly just for the power rush..and some guys get caught up in that..and then have to reach for that cancelation button !..have they no shame..dont they understand that there are big time nerds out there that cant live without a special item.

Im so upset..I intend to bid on EVERY lot that Probstein has currently running on ebay...just to prove a point.... I will then report back on the % of lots that were mis-represented, or fake, or questionable. Then I will prove once and for all that ....that...that... and then that will be it

[ALR-bishop]

If I see something I want or need, and the seller's feedback looks like he probably has the item and would deliver it, I determine how much I would be willing to pay and place a snipe. Thereafter I do not give it a thought until I get a notice from my snipe service that I won or lost. If I won, I pay by paypal and am done. Win or lose I do not bother to check out the bidding history on the item. If I got it for the price I was willing to pay, I am good.

I think the only thing I have bought from Probstein in the last year was a 1963 Topps Rookie Banquet program. I needed it to complete a run of those programs. I ended up getting it for a lot less than I expected

[the-illini]

It's a hobby - I don't need any of this. I would rather miss out on a baseball card than knowingly support someone who runs their business in a manner I find unethical. Just my opinion though.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Chiming in late, but thanks for that nugget of information. Very true.

[Acollector]

I intend to bid on EVERY lot that Probstein has currently running on ebay...just to prove a point.... I will then report back on the % of lots that were mis-represented, or fake, or questionable. Then I will prove once and for all that ....that...that... and then that will be it

The police department says thank you for the evidence they needed.


I have not posted in this thread previously, but for the record I would NOT ever bid in one of Rick's auctions after reading this thread.

I'm sure I may not be the only one who has not commented but made this decision. Perhaps it's because I've become more scrupulous as I've gotten older.

I wish this thread had been up in July before I dealt with this crack bag. I certainly would have been at least hesitant to deal with him, if not completely avoid him. His feedback is extremely misleading. He has a ton of negatives, but he has so many positives that it shows up as 100%.



It's a hobby - I don't need any of this. I would rather miss out on a baseball card than knowingly support someone who runs their business in a manner I find unethical. Just my opinion though.

My opinion is that your opinion is the correct opinion. ;)



That's where the Beverly Hillbillies were from :D

Well I be the son of a polecat. You've been lookin the same tv that's been lookin at me. None of that fancy book Lernin' for me. I already know enough guzintas to get by so I enjoy havin that Texas tea..

[Cardboard Junkie]

Perhaps he is just a misguided yoot.:)

[CMIZ5290]

Perhaps he is just a misguided yoot.:)

Mr. Gambini, did you say yoots??

[Eric72]

Me neither Leon, but trust me when I say, we are the minority, period......

Kevin,

Please allow me to join the vocal minority, then.

I have not (and have never) shilled an auction. It's just plain wrong.

Best regards,

Eric

[4815162342]

I've never shilled, and never will. Have I been shilled? Probably.

[Acollector]

I've never shilled, and never will. Have I been shilled? Probably.

I once shilled myself because of that stupid ebay hiding the ID and didn't realize it was my ID. I got me good. Pushed me up $500 to just under my max bid. That will show me to bid early and bid often.

Of course I am joking. Save your sarcastic replies please.

[Runscott]

Come on RunScott..Im just giving my opinion ..no need to start the personal insults.....but really..I dont care...like I said many times...I love posts like this that get hotly contested/ long winded/ nasty/etc.. I find it entertaining

Fortunately you are not representative of this board, on any level.

[calvindog]

Would any of the Probstein apologists, the manners police, the blah blah blahzy blah imbeciles care to comment on Rick's explanation of the auction of his Mathewson ball?

[jhs5120]

Would any of the Probstein apologists, the manners police, the blah blah blahzy blah imbeciles care to comment on Rick's explanation of the auction of his Mathewson ball?

I saw that he gave you his phone number pretty early in the conversation, did you call him? To me that's the logical thing to do since there was some disconnect between you two.

If you're still concerned with this maybe you should give him a quick call?

Or am I being unreasonable..

[ullmandds]

maybe we can get Rick on the chat line?

[thehoodedcoder]

Would any of the Probstein apologists, the manners police, the blah blah blahzy blah imbeciles care to comment on Rick's explanation of the auction of his Mathewson ball?

Sure.

While it certainly doesn't look or sound good and there probably is something wrong here....

Let's face it, you still have nothing which concretely proves something wrong was done. Period.

Add the definitive proof. Let me know when you do that. Until then this thread is just like the rest... Circumstantial and inconclusive.

Kevin

[hangman62]

RunScott..I think you enjoy the cat fighting as much as many, never willing to just " let it go"...always have to come back with a comment that borders on disrespectful /mean/ stinging...I think you enjoy it..., I know I do ! LOL

an old broken down lonely man..all he has is his card collection..he used to be a runner..but now time has taken that away from him..there he sit...with computer keyboard courage... giving his angry thoughts..cruel comments, ... ever now and again he will put on his little silky shorts,showing awful weathered legs, ugly veins and all,and he will drive down to the supermarket..pretending he is still who he never was..looking at his ironman wristwatch every two minutes..just waiting for someone to say...Wow do you run ?.... goes home..sits in a darkened room..some meaningless sport game on the TV.... thinking about his baseball cards, how much money they are worth...so sad...Oh so very sad

[calvindog]

I spoke to Rick last night. He informed me that he canceled the Mathewson auction -- presumably the winning bidder had no problem with this. He did not offer the winner of the auction the actual price of the ball if the purported shill bid was invalidated. He also banned the underbidder although he had no reason to believe anything untoward had occurred in the auction and did not check to see if there was any connection between the underbidder and consignor. Instead, the banning occurred because the underbidder had bids of 94% in his auction.

[ullmandds]

Do all kevins live in the land of de nile???

Wow hangman...way to live up to your name!!!

[markf31]

Sure.

While it certainly doesn't look or sound good and there probably is something wrong here....

Let's face it, you still have nothing which concretely proves something wrong was done. Period.

Add the definitive proof. Let me know when you do that. Until then this thread is just like the rest... Circumstantial and inconclusive.

Kevin

As its been mentioned before, multiple times, one of the benefits of these threads is to point out suspicious activities by consignors/sellers/bidders/etc. and to educate and notify other board members of potentially damaging actions by the parties involved. What the other board members choose to do with this information is their own choice in the end I suppose.

Personally, when it comes to my money and who I choose to do business with, I am the jury, judge and executioner. End of story. I don't operate under the idea that someone is innocent until proven guilty in my personal dealings with others. I operate under the idea that if something seems suspicious to me, then I must be provided with definitive proof that something nefarious did NOT happen before I will reinstate my trust in a company/business/individual.

[calvindog]

Sure.

While it certainly doesn't look or sound good and there probably is something wrong here....

Let's face it, you still have nothing which concretely proves something wrong was done. Period.

Add the definitive proof. Let me know when you do that. Until then this thread is just like the rest... Circumstantial and inconclusive.

Kevin

I understand that you only do class action law and not traditional civil or criminal cases but you do understand this isn't a court of law, correct? That we're not a sitting grand jury examining evidence and sending out subpoenas, right? That all we could have at this point is circumstantial evidence and that all we are trying to establish is that "there probably is something wrong here"? No 'definitive proof' can be established short of a confession or Rick allowing me to see his bidding and consignment records, neither of which will happen. I suspected Rick owned the Mathewson ball which was obviously shilled and Rick claimed he did own it -- before it was sold privately to some unknown buyer who later rejected the ball and supposedly put it back in a Probstein auction. And yet the ball was shilled in this Probstein auction at the price Rick paid for it in REA and not the higher price the unknown buyer got it for from Rick. That's circumstantial evidence enough for me to believe that the auction stinks. Maybe you pretend lawyer types need more definitive proof; I don't.

[thehoodedcoder]

Not living in denial.

I'm smart enough to know the difference between fact and proof and conclusions and cicumstances.

While your conclusion may be accurate... You do not have any proof to back it up with.

Get something to use to do something about it instead of starting another circumstantial thread that just gets dismissed after "he spoke to Rick"

He spoke to Rick and Rick made it all better.

Lol.

[calvindog]

As its been mentioned before, multiple times, one of the benefits of these threads is to point out suspicious activities by consignors/sellers/bidders/etc. and to educate and notify other board members of potentially damaging actions by the parties involved. What the other board members choose to do with this information is their own choice in the end I suppose.

Personally, when it comes to my money and who I choose to do business with, I am the jury, judge and executioner. End of story. I don't operate under the idea that someone is innocent until proven guilty in my personal dealings with others. I operate under the idea that if something seems suspicious to me, then I must be provided with definitive proof that something nefarious did NOT happen before I will reinstate my trust in a company/business/individual.

Mark, eloquently put. I think the moral of this and other similar threads is that you can bring the idiot to water but you can't make him drink.

[thehoodedcoder]

I understand that you only do class action law and not traditional civil or criminal cases but you do understand this isn't a court of law, correct? That we're not a sitting grand jury examining evidence and sending out subpoenas, right? That all we could have at this point is circumstantial evidence and that all we are trying to establish is that "there probably is something wrong here"? No 'definitive proof' can be established short of a confession or Rick allowing me to see his bidding and consignment records, neither of which will happen. I suspected Rick owned the Mathewson ball which was obviously shilled and Rick claimed he did own it -- before it was sold privately to some unknown buyer who later rejected the ball and supposedly put it back in a Probstein auction. And yet the ball was shilled in this Probstein auction at the price Rick paid for it in REA and not the higher price the unknown buyer got it for from Rick. That's circumstantial evidence enough for me to believe that the auction stinks. Maybe you pretend lawyer types need more definitive proof; I don't.



Ok good. You won your case. How many years in monopoly jail are you going to sentence him to?

Kevin

[jhs5120]

I spoke to Rick last night. He informed me that he canceled the Mathewson auction -- presumably the winning bidder had no problem with this. He did not offer the winner of the auction the actual price of the ball if the purported shill bid was invalidated. He also banned the underbidder although he had no reason to believe anything untoward had occurred in the auction and did not check to see if there was any connection between the underbidder and consignor. Instead, the banning occurred because the underbidder had bids of 94% in his auction.

Good job Jeff and Kudos to Rick. I do not believe it would have been appropriate to sell the ball for less than the original hammer price (even with the shill bid). Technically speaking, the shill bidder may have drove away/outbid a legitimate bidder, so we could never know the "true" hammer price.

[calvindog]

Ok good. You won your case. How many years in monopoly jail are you going to sentence him to?

Kevin

If Rick wasn't concerned at all about what is occurring on this and similar threads, why do you think he called my office last night and emailed me out of the blue about this auction? Can you possibly be as dumb as you appear?

[thehoodedcoder]

If Rick wasn't concerned at all about what is occurring on this and similar threads, why do you think he called my office last night and emailed me out of the blue about this auction? Can you possibly be as dumb as you appear?

I'm dumb huh?

Maybe to pacify you? Is it working for you?

If he was why wouldn't he take all of the suggestions being handed out to him?

Maybe do one or two of them with the little click of a check box and 15 seconds it could be done. Surely he has 15 seconds to spare and implement our suggestions.

I suspect you have absolutely nothing to say to that. Right?

Kevin

[jhs5120]

If Rick wasn't concerned at all about what is occurring on this and similar threads, why do you think he called my office last night and emailed me out of the blue about this auction? Can you possibly be as dumb as you appear?

Well, I don't know if it is completely "out of the blue" if you go on a public forum and very openly accuse him of fraud and complain that he is not getting back to you.

Good to see he followed up.

[Runscott]

RunScott..I think you enjoy the cat fighting as much as many, never willing to just " let it go"...always have to come back with a comment that borders on disrespectful /mean/ stinging...I think you enjoy it..., I know I do ! LOL

an old broken down lonely man..all he has is his card collection..he used to be a runner..but now time has taken that away from him..there he sit...with computer keyboard courage... giving his angry thoughts..cruel comments, ... ever now and again he will put on his little silky shorts,showing awful weathered legs, ugly veins and all,and he will drive down to the supermarket..pretending he is still who he never was..looking at his ironman wristwatch every two minutes..just waiting for someone to say...Wow do you run ?.... goes home..sits in a darkened room..some meaningless sport game on the TV.... thinking about his baseball cards, how much money they are worth...so sad...Oh so very sad

Perhaps, but none of that makes you any less of an idiot.

[thehoodedcoder]

Well, I don't know if it is completely "out of the blue" if you go on a public forum and very openly accuse him of fraud and complain that he is not getting back to you.

Good to see he followed up.

Right. He put a bandaid on it for Jeff. Stuck that pacifier right in his mouth. Handled the one issue with eyes on it and said what was needed.

And I'm the dumb one. Lol.

You will keep getting the pacifier until you have something concrete...guy.


Kevin

[atx840]

Kevin, what exactly have you done to help clean up the hobby?

[thehoodedcoder]

I can't discuss it right now. I have two initiatives.

Once I am done I will post about it.

Kevin

[atx840]

I can't discuss it right now.

Pacifier getting in the way?

[thehoodedcoder]

No...discussing it may jeopardize what I'm doing.

I figured that was obvious.

Kevin

[markf31]

No...discussing it may jeopardize what I'm doing.

I figured that was obvious.

Kevin

Be vewy quiet...

http://www.thestand.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/elmer-fudd-shh.jpg

[Cardboard Junkie]

"Bond, James Bond."

[thehoodedcoder]

These threads turn into a huge waste of time.

There was a thread on how to block viewing of all posts by a particular person.

Can someone please provide the link?

Kevin

[calvindog]

Right. He put a bandaid on it for Jeff. Stuck that pacifier right in his mouth. Handled the one issue with eyes on it and said what was needed.

And I'm the dumb one. Lol.

You will keep getting the pacifier until you have something concrete...guy.


Kevin

Of course you're the dumb one -- is it not clear to you that I don't believe a single word that Rick says? LOL. Christ, you're even dumber than I thought. And considering that I have a track record in this hobby of dealing with fraudsters somehow you can assume that I'm not leaving the situation alone.

Good luck with your "initiatives." LOL. Good God.

[calvindog]

These threads turn into a huge waste of time.

There was a thread on how to block viewing of all posts by a particular person.

Can someone please provide the link?

Kevin

maybe one of your initiatives can be how to figure it out.

[frankbmd]

but Tag Team Tussles are terrific!:eek:

[thehoodedcoder]

maybe one of your initiatives can be how to figure it out.

The third one is to actually block everything you type.

Don't sweat it. I will get it. Later chump.

Kevin

[calvindog]

The third one is to actually block everything you type.

Don't sweat it. I will get it. Later chump.

Kevin

don't waste too much time on it. I'd hate to see your initiatives get slowed down. PS let me know when you can afford the simple auction site software. Putz.

[wonkaticket]

No...discussing it may jeopardize what I'm doing.

I figured that was obvious.

Kevin

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/net54shared/small/secret-squirrel.jpg

[wonkaticket]

maybe one of your initiatives can be how to figure it out.

lmao :d

[Robextend]

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/net54shared/small/secret-squirrel.jpg

Yea I'm a cop, I'm a damn good cop!

[Ease]

but Tag Team Tussles are terrific!:eek:

Nice alliteration!

[Acollector]

I spoke to Rick last night. He informed me that he canceled the Mathewson auction -- presumably the winning bidder had no problem with this. He did not offer the winner of the auction the actual price of the ball if the purported shill bid was invalidated. He also banned the underbidder although he had no reason to believe anything untoward had occurred in the auction and did not check to see if there was any connection between the underbidder and consignor. Instead, the banning occurred because the underbidder had bids of 94% in his auction.

What he said he did and what he actually did may be complete opposites. With the private ebay IDs now, it's virtuously impossible to know what was actually done. For ebay to not want any wrongdoing on their site, they sure do make it easy to be done.

[Acollector]

Not living in denial.

I'm smart enough to know the difference between fact and proof and conclusions and cicumstances.

While your conclusion may be accurate... You do not have any proof to back it up with.

Get something to use to do something about it instead of starting another circumstantial thread that just gets dismissed after "he spoke to Rick"

He spoke to Rick and Rick made it all better.

Lol.


If it smells like crap, I certainly am not going to eat it to find out if it tastes like crap. That circumstantial evidence of the crap may not be good enough for US courts, but it is good enough for my taste buds to avoid it. My (enter any potential buyer's name) court is the only one that matters when a purchase might be made.

when it comes to my money and who I choose to do business with, I am the jury, judge and executioner. End of story.



Very good point. People seem to forget that this is the court of your own wallet, we are not in a court of the United States, so when there is any doubt of a seller, the monetary risk makes it magnified.


These threads turn into a huge waste of time.

There was a thread on how to block viewing of all posts by a particular person.

Can someone please provide the link?

Kevin

I would like to know how to use it so I can block your posts.

[thehoodedcoder]

21 posts. Awesome.

You should look it up then or try to figure it out.

It's pretty easy to figure out if you just look.

Kevin

[Acollector]

21 posts. Awesome.

You should look it up then or try to figure it out.

It's pretty easy to figure out if you just look.

Kevin

Unlike you I already know how to do it. It was more of a zinger against you. In fact I will do it now. Have a nice life of denial hoodface.

[thehoodedcoder]

Ok. Keep on posting on these threads guy.

It fits you well.

Kevin

[calvindog]

Ok. Keep on posting on these threads guy.

It fits you well.

Kevin

The more you post on Net 54 the less time is spent on your initiatives to ferret out fraud, you moron.

[tschock]

For some reason these threads keep reminding me of the quote.

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to post your opinions online and remove all doubt."

- @be L!nc0ln

Always looking to buy: President cards (to complete my set of 16)
NOT looking to buy: Mid-19th century N-type stage actors cards.

[wonkaticket]

"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to post your opinions online and remove all doubt."

- @be L!nc0ln

.

Never knew Lincoln was such an avid online poster…learn something new every day. :D

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bidder in a current Rick auction with 33 retractions.

Bid History: Details


Bidding Details

Bidder Information
Bidder: u***l ( 8171Feedback score is 5,000 to 9,999)
Feedback: 100% Positive
Item description: Item Title: 1954 Red Heart Mickey Mantle HOF New York Yankees PSA 8 NM-MT " HIGH END"
Bids on this item: 10
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1547
Items bid on: 450
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 26% Help
Bid retractions: 1
Bid retractions (6 months): 33

[nsaddict]

Peter, not to outdo you but check out the bidder that retracted? (The infamous Pank was the winner).

http://tinyurl.com/m3a753z

[Peter_Spaeth]

Peter, not to outdo you but check out the bidder that retracted? (The infamous Pank was the winner).

http://tinyurl.com/m3a753z

15 current, 122 total. Obviously a bidder who has not learned how to type. :D

[calvindog]

Rick says this happens in everyone's auctions.

[Iron Horse]

It happens in everyone's auctions that aren't real, or honest.
I don't bother bidding on any item/s anymore on ebay if there are bidder/s with bid retractions.

[Acollector]

what exactly have you done to help clean up the hobby?

I know this was not directed at me, but I am working on at least getting Rick suspended from ebay if not also arrested. He ripped off the wrong person. All routes I will use to get him banned and/or arrested are legal means of doing it. He will end up the Bill Mastro of ebay if I have anything to do with it.


Rick says this happens in everyone's auctions.

I wonder if Problemstein actually has a sinister cartoon laugh when he types something like that. I can see it. "This happens in everyone's auctions. Everyone's indeed. HA HA HA HA HA HA,"

[atx840]

If it's not shilling then what's wrong with these people?

Total bids:378
Bid retractions (6 months): 87

[ctownboy]

I have been a seller on eBay, off and on, since 1999. I have over 2500 feed back and during all of this time, I have probably had 10 (or fewer) bid retractions in my auctions.

If someone bids and then retracts their bid in my auction more than twice, I am going to ban them. I don't need the headache.

Also, I have NEVER shilled ANY of my auctions. Not only is that greedy but also illegal and against eBay rules. I price items where I am comfortable with selling them. If they don't sell, too bad for me. I am NOT going to play the game of "start something with a low opening bid and then shill some sucker to the price I actually want to achieve.".

David

[wonkaticket]

Agree.

I have retracted a bid twice in all my years on eBay both were mistake bids i.e. entering 1000 instead of 100 etc. of those retractions I immediately reentered the correct bid.

Can’t see why anyone would have dozens upon dozens of retracted bids unless up to no good. :confused:

[npa589]

If it's not shilling then what's wrong with these people?

Total bids:378
Bid retractions (6 months): 87

The only logical explanation, Chris, is fat fingers.


:rolleyes:

[slidekellyslide]

I sell hundreds of items per week on ebay...I don't get as many retractions as Probstein...probably only about 1/100th the amount he gets, but I believe some of these people with huge numbers of retractions are trying to see the high bid of the current high bidder...they bid up to it and then retract hoping to snipe it at the end. I don't watch my auctions 24/7 so sometimes I will see after an item has ended that someone has retracted a bid, and that same person won the auction.

[drcy]

There can be honest reasons for placing a majority of bids with one seller and for retracting bids. As Adrian showed us, some people are more OCD than others.

When I was an active bidder, there were always a few sellers who I regularly checked on to see what the had-- because they always had good stuff and I trusted them. I'm sure a large percentage of my bids were with them.

I don't recall ever retracting a bid once. In fact, I don't know that I even knew I could retract. I may have assumed you couldn't do that.

My one good story is years back when Mastro had weekly auctions and you typed in your bids, I accidentally typed in $15,000 instead of $1,1500 with about ten minutes left. I didn't know what to do-- I wasn't planning on paying $15,000, but my bid wasn't raised so there was no issue.

I've never shilled, I've never ended an auction when there was one or more bids, but have ended early auctions where there were no bids. I felt it was always my right to end an auction where no one had placed the minimum bid.

[Runscott]

There can be honest reasons for placing a majority of bids with one seller and for retracting bids. As Adrian showed us, some people are more OCD than others.

OCD is a legitimate reason, but no honest reason I can think of for a seller not blocking such bidders from their auctions. I too have accidentally added an extra '0' to a bid, but I don't recall ever retracting one, even for a legitimate mistake.

Some hobbyists can live in their own skin with what others would consider to be huge integrity problems. Those same people are amazed when the rest of us consider them to be lacking in integrity. Tough luck - they can't blame us for trying to help maintain a higher level of integrity in our hobby through threads like this. The idea that we basically have to keep our mouth shut unless we can prove guilt in a court of law, is absurd.

Ebay has found a loophole where they think they can legally allow cheating by manipulating their rules, thus increasing their profits. For now it's working, but it's wrong, and our best recourse is this forum...public exposure.

[ullmandds]

It's not everyday that I agree w/Scott F...but I totally...agree with his last post!!!!

[thehoodedcoder]

and our best recourse is this forum...public exposure.

You just summed it all up for me in one sentence.

It is not yours, mine or our only recourse.

The problem is that everyone on these threads whole heartedly believes it is.

Kevin

[Runscott]

It's not everyday that I agree w/Scott F...but I totally...agree with his last post!!!!

Thanks for admitting that - I have quoted you, just in case I need to use it in my internet discussion forum resume.

[drcy]

When I see news stories about unethical Enron-types who will do anything to further pad their 8 figure bank accounts, I say "There are worse things than being poor."

I believe most people are honest and fair and have no desire to cheat or trick others out of money. I believe that for most people who find on the sidewalk a wallet with fifty bucks in it, they will try and return it whole to the owner.

I also find most teenagers these days to be polite.

[D. Bergin]

I sell hundreds of items per week on ebay...I don't get as many retractions as Probstein...probably only about 1/100th the amount he gets, but I believe some of these people with huge numbers of retractions are trying to see the high bid of the current high bidder...they bid up to it and then retract hoping to snipe it at the end. I don't watch my auctions 24/7 so sometimes I will see after an item has ended that someone has retracted a bid, and that same person won the auction.


I don't sell hundreds of items per week, but yes, I've said it before. Many are now using retractions as a bid strategy to scare off other bidders.

Last guy who retracted a bid from one of my auctions, had a lot of retractions, so I blocked him. Got a message from him a day later, "I don't understand, I tried to bid and it said I'm blocked".

I told him it made me look like I was shilling the auction when he did that. He responded with apologies and told me he had no idea that's how it looked to others. I have a feeling he knew exactly how it looked.

I can't control how others behave on the rest of Ebay, and I'm not going to weed out everybody who is putting in retracting bids in other places, but I can somewhat control how bidders are behaving in MY auctions.

[calvindog]

You just summed it all up for me in one sentence.

It is not yours, mine or our only recourse.

The problem is that everyone on these threads whole heartedly believes it is.

Kevin

This is clearly the dumbest guy on Net 54 -- and that says a lot. He shows up a month ago and has convinced himself that the only things being done to stop fraud in the hobby are what exists on this board. He reads nothing, knows nothing, makes no effort to learn about anything -- and does all that he can to stop any discourse about fraud here -- so that he can work in private on some insane 'initiatives' that we all know are the figments of his imagination.

[HRBAKER]

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s172/hrbaker/Decorated%20images/3148215691_45efac6afb_zpsa84abb83.jpg

[wonkaticket]

This is clearly the dumbest guy on Net 54 -- and that says a lot. He shows up a month ago and has convinced himself that the only things being done to stop fraud in the hobby are what exists on this board. He reads nothing, knows nothing, makes no effort to learn about anything -- and does all that he can to stop any discourse about fraud here -- so that he can work in private on some insane 'initiatives' that we all know are the figments of his imagination.

Damn Jeff does this mean I lost my title? I thought I was the dumbest…guess I’m going to have to up my game these are tough times some serious competition. :)

[calvindog]

122506

[wonkaticket]

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/net54shared/on-the-internet-you-can-choose-to-be-anything.jpg

[Acollector]

I don't sell hundreds of items per week, but yes, I've said it before. Many are now using retractions as a bid strategy to scare off other bidders.

Last guy who retracted a bid from one of my auctions, had a lot of retractions, so I blocked him. Got a message from him a day later, "I don't understand, I tried to bid and it said I'm blocked".

I told him it made me look like I was shilling the auction when he did that. He responded with apologies and told me he had no idea that's how it looked to others. I have a feeling he knew exactly how it looked.

I can't control how others behave on the rest of Ebay, and I'm not going to weed out everybody who is putting in retracting bids in other places, but I can somewhat control how bidders are behaving in MY auctions.



I was bidding on a Dewalt rotary hammer for some work I needed to do on my house, so I started bidding on one. Suddenly this zero feedback, less than a month old account outbids me. I outbid before I looked at the bidding history. Both times the outbidding was almost immediately after mine i.e. less than a minute. I went and bid a third time and it happened to be the limit. I was testing to see if it was a shill, and at the same time that was the most I was going to pay, which was under what they were normally selling, so I said what the hell, let's see what happens. If I win, I get it at the level I was going to go anyway and will buy it. I get outbid a 3rd time by that same account. I left it at that. About 30 minutes after the auction ended, surprise, surprise, the seller emails me saying the buyer changed his mind and left me a second chance offer at my highest bid. The winner was that zero feedback bidder. Normally I say to someone that sends me a second chance offer, "why should I have to pay my highest bid, when if that guy who didn't pay hadn't bid, I would have won at a lower price?" I looked at this zero bidder and he had about 50 bids and 100% of them with this seller. I told the seller to run that shill scam with someone stupid enough to fall for it. He never responded. Does his not responding to an incriminating accusation sound familiar? Hint, we have been talking about someone similar that ignores incriminating questions. Shill bidding and lowlife sellers don't only exist in sports collectible auctions unfortunately. They are everywhere.

[Peter_Spaeth]

There was probably shill bidding in the Agora.

[Acollector]

There was probably shill bidding in the Agora.

I could see someone from Crete shill bidding someone from Athens because the Athenian kept winning everything.

[judsonhamlin]

Carthage shillenda est!

[vintagechris]

Is there a way for sellers to see how many times bidders have retracted bids in their auctions?

Also, do get an email from ebay when someone retracts a bid?

[HRBAKER]

Veni, vidi, schillichi!

[Acollector]

Is there a way for sellers to see how many times bidders have retracted bids in their auctions?

Also, do get an email from ebay when someone retracts a bid?

The retracting bidder, the other bidders and the seller all get an email from ebay that a bid was retracted.

The sellers would get an email for each retraction that bidder had, and it would show the retractions in the bid history.

[HRBAKER]

Of course some sellers are far too busy to have time to pay much attention to such e-mails.

[ullmandds]

maybe some sellers could train someone in their migrant worker army to take note of such activity?

[Acollector]

maybe some sellers could train someone in their migrant worker army to take note of such activity?

That would require them hiring Americans that speak English. That would also require them paying them a decent wage, so no.

[RGold]

Mundus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur :D:D:D

[HRBAKER]

Not the entire world. :D

[Peter_Spaeth]

Petronius was probably shilled in the Forum.

[ullmandds]

Maybe at a david blaine special!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Not the entire world. :D

Certainly the registry dudes.

[Acollector]

Petronius was probably shilled in the Forum.

Julius probably shilled Brutus for the Coliseum naming rights. Zues (woops, I mean Jupiter, Zeus was the Greek parallel set of Gods) won the auction though I think.

[CMIZ5290]

julius probably shilled brutus for the coliseum naming rights. Zues won the auction though i think.

delete

[ullmandds]

what r u trying to say Kevin? WTF? 1?

[Republicaninmass]

He's shilling the thread

[thehoodedcoder]

now that rick commented and those comments were appended, everyone got their resolve.

...the thread goes quiet. issue is over with.

just like the rest of them.

kevin

[calvindog]

now that rick commented and those comments were appended, everyone got their resolve.

...the thread goes quiet. issue is over with.

just like the rest of them.

kevin

Every month more auction house principals are being indicted, convicted, sentenced to jail or receiving grand jury subpoenas in fraud investigations -- and yet one sole idiot seemingly misses all of this as he is busy, hunkered down, working hard on his double secret initiatives.

[wonkaticket]

Every month more auction house principals are being indicted, convicted, sentenced to jail or receiving grand jury subpoenas in fraud investigations -- and yet one sole idiot seemingly misses all of this as he is busy, hunkered down, working hard on his double secret initiatives.


Shhh Jeff you're going to blow his cover...besides he only has so much "dick" to go around to offer everyone this evening. :)

[Runscott]

Happy Thanksgiving

[markf31]

now that rick commented and those comments were appended, everyone got their resolve.

...the thread goes quiet. issue is over with.

just like the rest of them.

kevin

How ironic! The thread goes quiet for 4 days and drifts towards the bottom of page one, perhaps to disappear from page 1 list of threads, then you decide to come back and post a reply trumpeting what exactly? Your own ego-maniacal Pyrrhic victory?

In the end you've done nothing more than refresh the thread to to top of page 1 and allow additional forum users the opportunity to read the thread, become a little better educated about looking out for, dealing with, and staying away from these unethical bidding/consigning/consignment practices on Ebay.

[calvindog]

How ironic! The thread goes quiet for 4 days and drifts towards the bottom of page one, perhaps to disappear from page 1 list of threads, then you decide to come back and post a reply trumpeting what exactly? Your own ego-maniacal Pyrrhic victory?



Mark, if this moron had a Pyrrhic victory it would be his first. He has no idea what if anything is going on behind the scenes regarding the fraud in these auctions -- but of course, that doesn't stop him from opening his hole and allowing more stupidity to come out. At least he didn't make any racist or homophobic remarks in that post so I suppose for him that's a big victory.

[the-illini]

76 bids on a T3 Rube Waddell with 6 days to go? Seems reasonable to me...


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-T3-Turkey-Red-Cabinets-Rube-Waddell-HOF-Checklist-Back-PSA-4-5-VG-EX-/360802499134?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item5401813a3e

[frankbmd]

76 bids on a T3 Rube Waddell with 6 days to go? Seems reasonable to me...


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1911-T3-Turkey-Red-Cabinets-Rube-Waddell-HOF-Checklist-Back-PSA-4-5-VG-EX-/360802499134?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item5401813a3e

But only 72 of those are from the same bidder.:eek::rolleyes:

[Batter67up]

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.

[egbeachley]

But only 72 of those are from the same bidder.:eek::rolleyes:

It's OK. He stopped when he realized his next bid was going to be the high bid. Must have reached his limit.

[ullmandds]

I totally agree with you Steve...this board is changing. IT's not the safe haven it once was...definitely turning into the wild west...along with the hobby!

[calvindog]

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.

Problem is, that when a Ruth goes off in a PWCC or Probstein auction, the price is inflated -- which influences the value that you would place on the card when you make a best offer.

[bobbyw8469]

I think it all boils down to unrealistic expectations. Just because a card sold for $1,000 last week from a seller other than PWCC or Probstein DOES NOT make that exact same card worth $1,500 or more one week later with PWCC or Probstein as the seller!!!! Or does it??!?!??!?!?!??!!

[Leon]

I totally agree with you Steve...this board is changing. IT's not the safe haven it once was...definitely turning into the wild west...along with the hobby!

There are a lot more people on the board, no doubt. Wild Wild west? Far from it in my opinion. That doesn't mean you can just do things blindly. But I personally think that if you do your homework it's as close to perfectly safe as I know of, on such a venue. I am biased of course. :)

[PM770]

It's OK. He stopped when he realized his next bid was going to be the high bid. Must have reached his limit.

This is what happened to me the one time I bid in a "123" auction, back sometime around '05-'07 or so. I was of course suspicious and decided I would never bid on an auction of his again Anyway, the threads regarding these actions are great to shine the light on this. Per some of the posts it has prevented others from dealing with the guy.

[Exhibitman]

This Thread is evidence of the deception that this hobby has in it. Shilling is much more than Probstein and PWCC. The majority of Ruth cards over $1,000 have it going on now. There are 2 ending tonight that have it taking place. The auction option is something that I will no longer do. Give me a buy it now or I will not buy it. Human nature (greed) seems to always take advantage of whatever it can. If you looked at this board in 2009 versus 2013, you could see that the collectors are leaving and more flippers joining. Dont get me wrong there are some quality people on this board but many more trying to make a quick buck. This hobby would be much more fun if it had more collectors and less flippers but this seems to have the opposite taking place now.

I'm going to have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you on that. Yeah. Sure, there are a few trolls here and there on N54. That said, there are lots of solid, committed, friendly collectors here who've got many years into the Hobby and are as passionate about their collections as can be. Everyone who shows up at our shows is evidence of that. If you're around SoCal in May when we do our next show, come on out and meet the gang. Or attend the National if you haven't and meet up with everyone there. Lots of good people...

I don't think flipping is bad. I think we're all flippers to some extent--I know I try to finance my collection that way--but the prevalence of auction houses as the means of selling cards with mass lotting that lumps dozens or even hundreds of cards into 'dealer friendly' lots increasingly dictates that we all end up flipping stuff.

The answer to shilling on eBay is not simple but there are mitigating measures that can be taken, which we've kicked around ad nauseum here already. First and foremost is exposure, which N54 does very well indeed.

[Batter67up]

I agree their are a lot of really good people on this board but as it grows like everything else in this world the scammers and let's make a quick buck people have grown in multiples and are just a turn-off in the hobby. They will come and go on this board and hopefully the quality collectors will stick it out. This hobby was built on collectors trading and purchasing cards they really want and exploited by people trying to make a quick buck or selling fake/counterfeit items. The TPG's have included themselves in the deception in the hobby by grading cards that are known to be trimmed and giving them a grade of 8. The accountability is just not there. Dealers using one price guide to buy from and a second to sell from? We are not going to grow the hobby with these actions. I have enjoyed this hobby and this forum but I made my original post because I really don't like what I have been seeing over the last year or so. I hate negativity and look forward to discussing the excitement of someone getting a card they really wanted.

Steve

[HRBAKER]

Follow the money.
When the dollars get big (and they have) along come the folks allergic to a honest day's work.

There are PLENTY of fine folks on this board but it is different than it used to be. And that's not all bad either.

We will all be flippers at some point.

[glynparson]

Are not new to this business and there are far less of both than in the late 1980s-mid 1990s when there were far more people attempting to make a buck selling cards. I also do not think there is more but actually less fraud than back then, in terms of counterfeits and alterations. Do these things still exist absolutely and they always will. That does not mean we should not expose fraud when we see it. There is more fraud in terms of shilling mainly because far more cards are now sold via auction then at any other time. Ps there are a ton of good people on this board and a few p.i.t.as.

[danmckee]

You guys are wasting your time, shill bidding is allowed if you are bringing in the big money, aka BRSZ!

[Acollector]

You guys are wasting your time, shill bidding is allowed if you are bringing in the big money!


Unfortunately you are 100% right.

[iwantitiwinit]

Guess what I bid on a probstein auction (yes my mistake) and long and behold I was subsequently outbid. Now today with about a day and a half left I become the top bidder as the person bidding more than me has retracted or cancelled their bid. Since I don't want to cast dispersions on anyone you can draw your own conclusions. The ebay email is copied below. What do you think?



Dear eBay Community Member,
The following item, on which you placed a bid has had a bid retraction or cancellation, and you are now the high bidder. Congratulations! You can view the retraction/cancellation and the reason provided by selecting the (bid history) link from the individual item page. As a result of this retraction/cancellation, there is a possibility that the high bid amount and the current high bidder have changed. You can always view the current status of any item by going to the individual item page. (Be sure to refresh or reload the page to view the most up-to-date information.)

Regards,
eBay

It's a t206 chesboro sgc 50 with sovereign back if u care to look at bid history.

[HRBAKER]

Congratulations!

[iwantitiwinit]

Thank you

[tiger8mush]

Auction - http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Jack-Chesbro-New-York-HOF-SOVEREIGN-150-Back-SGC-50-VG-EX-4-/360803119481?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item54018ab179

details of bidder who retracted $150 bid ...

Bid History: Details
Bidding Details

Bidder Information
Bidder: 0***a ( 53Feedback score is 50 to 99)
Feedback: 100% Positive
Item description: Item Title: T206 Jack Chesbro New York HOF SOVEREIGN 150 Back SGC 50 VG-EX 4
Bids on this item: 0

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 2
Items bid on: 2
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 0% Help
Bid retractions: 2
Bid retractions (6 months): 4
30-Day Bid History
Category No. of Bids Seller Help Last Bid Help
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball 1 Seller 1 <1h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Hockey-NHL 1 Seller 2 3d

So couldn't the seller, every time he gets a bid retraction email, ban the bidder from his auctions?

[HRBAKER]

So he's bid on 2 items in 30 days and retracted both bids.
This one could just be a squirrel.

[Rob D.]

Just sent out a double-secret, triple-coded transmission. Some of my operatives are on the case.

The rabbit howls at midnight.

Over and out.

[HRBAKER]

Just sent out a double-secret, triple-coded transmission. Some of my operatives are on the case.

The rabbit howls at midnight.

Over and out.

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s172/hrbaker/Decorated%20images/3148215691_45efac6afb_zpsa84abb83.jpg

[Mikehealer]

Just sent out a double-secret, triple-coded transmission. Some of my operatives are on the case.

The rabbit howls at midnight.

Over and out.

I feel better already.

[iwantitiwinit]

So he's bid on 2 items in 30 days and retracted both bids.
This one could just be a squirrel.

I suspect not.

[atx840]

What's in the pocket? I'm genuinely freaked out.

[HRBAKER]

What's in the pocket? I'm genuinely freaked out.

Triple-Coding Transmittor

[Rob D.]

Was going to post this in the monthly pickups thread, but it's more appropriate here. Got a half-dozen of them, to be issued ASAP to agents in the field. Confident this is the final piece to end the war on fraud.

The green grass on the leaky bucket speaks no ill will to the man from Nantucket.

Signing off.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2Ict6QkDzQ9EidXYNSW3BdEsq3m-m1ratcSfi5djvddG3ZfkIXw

[bnorth]

Auction - http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Jack-Chesbro-New-York-HOF-SOVEREIGN-150-Back-SGC-50-VG-EX-4-/360803119481?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item54018ab179

details of bidder who retracted $150 bid ...

Bid History: Details
Bidding Details

Bidder Information
Bidder: 0***a ( 53Feedback score is 50 to 99)
Feedback: 100% Positive
Item description: Item Title: T206 Jack Chesbro New York HOF SOVEREIGN 150 Back SGC 50 VG-EX 4
Bids on this item: 0

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 2
Items bid on: 2
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 0% Help
Bid retractions: 2
Bid retractions (6 months): 4
30-Day Bid History
Category No. of Bids Seller Help Last Bid Help
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Baseball 1 Seller 1 <1h
Sports Mem, Cards & Fan Shop > Hockey-NHL 1 Seller 2 3d

So couldn't the seller, every time he gets a bid retraction email, ban the bidder from his auctions?

Every bidder in that auction has a high % of bids on Ricks items, 1 of them must have some really fat fingers with 27 bid retractions.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Ten feet tall and bulletproof

[ctownboy]

IwantitIwinit,

I would call eBay and complain. Tell them you now know about the questionable things that go on with this sellers' auctions and that you do not appreciate the fact that you might be shilled.

If they don't do anything then I would wait and retract your bid and leave somebody else holding the bag.

David

[iwantitiwinit]

Every bidder in that auction has a high % of bids on Ricks items, 1 of them must have some really fat fingers with 27 bid retractions.

I guess I am the only sucker then since this is one of the few cards he autions that I have bid on. This will be the last time. If I win it so be it, but I doubt it.

[calvindog]

Was going to post this in the monthly pickups thread, but it's more appropriate here. Got a half-dozen of them, to be issued ASAP to agents in the field. Confident this is the final piece to end the war on fraud.

The green grass on the leaky bucket speaks no ill will to the man from Nantucket.

Signing off.

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ2Ict6QkDzQ9EidXYNSW3BdEsq3m-m1ratcSfi5djvddG3ZfkIXw

Very initiatives of you.

[Leon]

IwantitIwinit,

I would call eBay and complain. Tell them you now know about the questionable things that go on with this sellers' auctions and that you do not appreciate the fact that you might be shilled.

If they don't do anything then I would wait and retract your bid and leave somebody else holding the bag.

David

Last night and in the last few minutes I have been emailing with Rick P about this auction of his. That bid retracting person hasn't won anything from him in over 90 days, he says, and ebay allows bid retractions, so he doesn't see an issue. I kindly told him that there is an issue and just because ebay allows it doesn't make it right. He did share literally hundreds of biddrers id's he has blocked. He says he does take action many times and many times it's because of what is said on the forum....and I would imagine other forums too. I told him that I know there are issues with someone retracting multilple times, he knows and the whole world knows it. Just because he denies culpability and no ebay rules are being broken doesn't make it right...

[Peter_Spaeth]

So he doesn't have time to monitor his auctions, yet he has found reason to block hundreds of bidders? :confused:

[Leon]

So he doesn't have time to monitor his auctions, yet he has found reason to block hundreds of bidders? :confused:

He says he does 20000 auctions a month and doesn't monitor them unless it's brought to his attention.

[vintagetoppsguy]

He says he does 20000 auctions a month and doesn't monitor them unless it's brought to his attention.

It was brought to his attention over a year ago that Joe Panky was shilling his own consgnments and yet some how he didn't get blocked (as a bidder or consignor). Leon, if you speak to him again, please ask Rick why he took no action with Panky.

[markf31]

He says he does 20000 auctions a month and doesn't monitor them unless it's brought to his attention.

I wonder how the Probstein apologists will try to spin that little anecdote.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I wonder how the Probstein apologists will try to spin that little anecdote.

No need to spin it, they will accept it at face value, and maybe we can get some more misleading calculations to support it.

[Leon]

It was brought to his attention over a year ago that Joe Panky was shilling his own consgnments and yet some how he didn't get blocked (as a bidder or consignor). Leon, if you speak to him again, please ask Rick why he took no action with Panky.

I will.....but I want to go on record as someone who thinks it's crazy to let bidders retract bids almost at will, regardless of ebay policies or not. Do I think Rick is complicit otherwise, no. Do I think he turns the other cheek, so to speak, yes. Do I think he does act on some of the more egregious issues, yes. But I will ask about the Panky issue.....

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Sorry to be late and so uninformed but reading all the banter but is Rick safe to buy from? I have picked up a few guides and programs over the past couple of years and it seems like everything went ok. Of course very low dollar and grading is not involved?

[the-illini]

Sorry to be late and so uninformed but reading all the banter but is Rick safe to buy from? I have picked up a few guides and programs over the past couple of years and it seems like everything went ok. Of course very low dollar and grading is not involved?

There has never been any issue that I am aware of with the items he sells not being real. The auctions they are sold in are full of shill bids in many instances.

[Acollector]

Sorry to be late and so uninformed but reading all the banter but is Rick safe to buy from? I have picked up a few guides and programs over the past couple of years and it seems like everything went ok. Of course very low dollar and grading is not involved?

No buying from him is not safe and I will explain in detail in a later thread.

[Acollector]

That bid retracting person hasn't won anything from him in over 90 days, he says, and ebay allows bid retractions, so he doesn't see an issue.

That just says criminal behavior in my opinion.

[HRBAKER]

It may be the case that that the "bid retractor" never had any intention of "winning" anything. So I am not sure what that is supposed to mean.

[frankbmd]

Ebay could install a "RETRACT NOW" button to facilitate bid retractions, but I would suggest that in addition to providing the Bid Count in parentheses to scrollers that they provide a Retraction Count as well on each auction page. These could be color coded as demonstrated here.

So if you went to any auction page the line with the current bid would read

$65.00 [35 bids] [4 retractions]

Just an idea to make things easier for all.;););)

[Cardboard Junkie]

Good idea Frank! BTW nasty thread about problemstein on the post war side.

[Runscott]

Ebay could install a "RETRACT NOW" button to facilitate bid retractions, but I would suggest that in addition to providing the Bid Count in parentheses to scrollers that they provide a Retraction Count as well on each auction page. These could be color coded as demonstrated here.

So if you went to any auction page the line with the current bid would read

$65.00 [35 bids] [4 retractions]

Just an idea to make things easier for all.;););)

I suspect that at some point ebay will get rid of the 'bid retractions' information, as it hinders shilling by their larger accounts.