Pencil marks and grading redux

[the 'stache]

Hey guys,

I wanted to ask your opinion on this card back. It is something I am considering bidding on and having graded. As some of you know, I am working on a SGC 40 or better T206 collection, and this would nicely fill one of my needs. The front is beautiful. Near perfect centering, strong eye appeal, and no markings/creases on the picture itself. There is some corner and edge wear, but absent the pencil marks on the back, I feel strongly that this card would grade very good to very good +.

Here's the back:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/723/llct.png

The pencil marking appears to be very light. What are the odds if I use an art eraser/gum eraser that I can remove the pencil marks without negatively impacting the overall grade? I'm just looking for input from those that may have tried this before.

Thanks!!

[bobbyw8469]

I would think if you used an eraser to remove pencil marks, PSA would deem the card "altered" and not grade it. I believe SGC is more forgiving on that, but would not grade it highly.

[edhans]

It depends on whether the pencil mark has indented the card stock. If it hasn't, light marks can usually be erased without trace and can often pass the grading companies.

[4815162342]

There has been some controversy about removing pencil marks. Some have the opinion that it is no more harmful than blowing off dust; others believe it is altering the card.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?p=1174331&highlight=presented+without+comment#post1174331

[the 'stache]

I'm on the fence about that myself, Darryl. I honestly don't know where I fall on erasing light pencil marks. I'm against trimming, or restoring paper loss, etc. But those are pretty substantial alterations. I don't know if taking a gum eraser to a back to remove a very light pencil mark falls in the same category. The mark itself should be taken into consideration. If it's a light mark or two, it shouldn't be the same as somebody who has written words, or scribbled on the back.

I guess it falls in a gray area.

[egbeachley]

If you have to press so hard that it leaves an eraser mark then it's altering. But if the mark is light and you have a good eraser it's no different than vacuuming your carpet. The eraser "grabs" the graphite pieces within the paper fibers and takes them away. Creases left by the pencil mark, if any, will still be there.

[lharri3600]

It depends on whether the pencil mark has indented the card stock. If it hasn't, light marks can usually be erased without trace and can often pass the grading companies.

i agree Ed:D

[the 'stache]

What eraser would I want to use? A gum eraser was recommended, but I've been reading that it has a very low grade abrasive, and I do not want paper loss. What about a Prismacolor magic rub art eraser? These are non-abrasive, vinyl erasers for use on delicate surfaces. They absorb graphite.

Has anybody used this? I have a feeling that my beater T206 is going to be put to the test.

[conor912]

The front is beautiful. Near perfect centering, strong eye appeal, and no markings/creases on the picture itself.

'nuff said. Buy it. Who cares what SGC thinks?

[conor912]

What eraser would I want to use?

Creme de la creme. I've used them on countless pencil marks.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006IFAN/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[the 'stache]

Creme de la creme. I've used them on countless pencil marks.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00006IFAN/ref=oh_details_o01_s00_i01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I used these long ago when I was an advertising art major. Completely forgot about them. Thank you, Conor!

I think SGC does a pretty good job with their grading. I want to have my T206 set graded for insurance purposes, and might want to enter it into the registry.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Marks of graphite, (primarily a lubricant) Cannot be erased without a trace. Perhaps without a trace to the naked eye, but under magnification and the correct light it would be detectable. It is altered regardless if detectable or not. There are those that say it is ok. I think it is altering the card. There are also those that think soaking in H2O is ok to clean, this is wrong. When a card is soaked the ph of the paper is changed unless other chemicals are added, making it prone to rapid pyrolysis. Upon testing, soaking can be detected also, it is another kind of "altering" that some accept, I do not.

[Leon]

Marks of graphite, (primarily a lubricant) Cannot be erased without a trace. Perhaps without a trace to the naked eye, but under magnification and the correct light it would be detectable. It is altered regardless if detectable or not. There are those that say it is ok. I think it is altering the card. There are also those that think soaking in H2O is ok to clean, this is wrong. When a card is soaked the ph of the paper is changed unless other chemicals are added, making it prone to rapid pyrolysis. Upon testing, soaking can be detected also, it is another kind of "altering" that some accept, I do not.

I am in complete disagreement with almost everything you said. :) Besides that you are wrong in saying that a pencil mark can't be erased without leaving a trace. Very light ones can be removed with no trace. And quite easily I might add. I, and many other hobbyists, have no issue with removing a mark or soaking a card. It's ok to most hobbyists.

One more addition- Bill, I have several of those Staedler (sp)? art gum erasers on my desk, always. They work like a charm and are cheap.

[Republicaninmass]

Buy the card, not the holder.

[conor912]

I used these long ago when I was an advertising art major. Completely forgot about them. Thank you, Conor!

I think SGC does a pretty good job with their grading. I want to have my T206 set graded for insurance purposes, and might want to enter it into the registry.

My point was, grade it if you want, but you seem to like the card, so don't consider it unusable for your set if it comes back less than a 40. It's just a number. The fact that you like it is all that matters.

[Republicaninmass]

How many times do we see cards in OUR opinion are over or undergraded? As far as resale, most often times graded is the way to go, however when it comes to OUR collection, OUR opinion matter most!

[Cardboard Junkie]

"As far as I'm concerned: efforts to erase will always leave evidence behind, even if not visible to the naked eye, and therefore must needs be mentioned. Leave well enough alone." G. S. Professional paper conservator. (Smithsonian)
To me, this is good advice, "leave well enough alone."
Whether attemping to erase a pencil mark, or soaking a card to enhance it's appearance it is altering. Dave.

[T206Collector]

I, and many other hobbyists, have no issue with removing a mark or soaking a card. It's ok to most hobbyists..

+1 -- and if you collect hoping your prewar cards haven't been soaked or erased, good luck to you. Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess.

[freakhappy]

+1 -- and if you collect hoping your prewar cards haven't been soaked or erased, good luck to you. Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess.

I'm not saying soaking or erasing marks are wrong or right, but I'm not sure anyone really referred to believing or not believing their cards have or have not been soaked before. Dave seemed to make some really good points and opinions on the matter that seem valid. Whether one or several people in the hobby believe these actions are acceptable, doesn't make them ethical. To be clear on the matter, I'm not on either side per se, but just acknowledging Dave's points as well put.

This response wasn't meant to disrespect you in any way, Paul, but just give my opinion on the matter :D