Compare the names

[Phillies*phan]

Look different to me.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/360781258641?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649


http://loveofthegameauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=1660&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=50&category=1&seo=Rare-1909-11-T206-Sherry-Magie-error---PSA-VG-3

[wolf441]

I'm missing it Doug,

What's the difference that you are seeing? Full disclosure, I haven't had my 1st cup of coffee yet :D

[slidekellyslide]

I'm not seeing it either, but it's hard for me to compare if they aren't side by side. So one of you photoshop experts get to work! :D

[Phillies*phan]

Might be nothing but on the Ebay one it looks like the "M" and "A" are low, far apart, and mis-shapen.

[frankbmd]

MAGIE and MAGEE are reversed in order on the flips. Do i win?:D

[Phillies*phan]

Not the flip. The actual card. Good try though.

[wolf441]

Might be nothing but on the Ebay one it looks like the "M" and "A" are low, far apart, and mis-shapen.

Wow, good catch. Looking at it again, they clearly are lower than the GIE. Makes you wonder....:confused:

[ullmandds]

wow...great catch...after looking at numerous other magie error cards on the internet...I think this Probstein one is altered...def looks different than all others I looked at.

Even the M looks a little odd...and the "smudge" to the left of the m doesn't inspire confidence?

The probstein thickens!

[Cardboard Junkie]

This is how I feel sometimes in regards to the shenanegans that take place in our hobby.

[AddieJoss]

They both look good to me. Not looking with a loop it may be tough but they both seem legit from the scans.

[steve B]

Can someone photoshop a line on there?

I looked at the scans I've saved of Magies, and none have the MA low.

But I thought the GAI copy did. Holding a card up to the monitor as a straightline showed it's just about the same height. But the same quick check on the one in question also comes out as nearly on the same line, with the G slightly high making MA appear lower. Of course, that's a quick check using a card and a flatscreen, so it could be wrong.

The GAI copy also has a few things about the caption that aren't like the one on Ebay. Neither is a match to any of the ones I have good scans for.

That the caption area looks like a different shade compared to the rest of the border makes it a bit more suspect to me.

Steve B

[pencil1974]

Top is Love of the Game
Bottom "other"

I tried to blown them up and sharpen them as they are different sizes and thus get pixelated as you enlarge them but I think you can clearly see there are different things going on with the fonts. I've been a graphic designer for over 20 years and see a big difference when I look at them. Just my 2 cents.

You can see the shape of the letters is different especially in the "P" as well as the spacing issues. Sorry for the poor quality.

[auggiedoggy]

They both look good to me. Not looking with a loop it may be tough but they both seem legit from the scans.

There's nothing to lose since the seller has stated that this item can be returned for a refund.

[thehoodedcoder]

the ink bleeds. its never going to be perfect and crisp and identical.

that doesn't mean its altered. you just opened the door for all of the skeptics and the bashers.

i hope you all welcome another probstien thread because that is what this will become.

kevin

[Cardboard Junkie]

The "P"s look like different fonts.

[ullmandds]

For the record...it doesn't look right to me...if I were looking for a magie error...I wouldn't touch it.

The ink bleeds? Really?

The N looks weird too?!!
Honestly...it looks like the whole caption was "erased" and re-added...Every single letter doesn't look right if u look at Brads comparison.

Wake up people!

And I mean this in the most positive...optimistic way!!!!

[thehoodedcoder]

yes, the ink bleeds. the lettering in a delicate name is very open to looking different because of tiny lines, the amount of ink laid on it as it flies through the printing press.

do you think that if the 'erased it' and added it back so well on all of the other letters, they would botch only 2 of the letters? why wouldn't they just make all of the letters perfect?

and then that it would be completely missed by the graders on top of that?

someone that is so good, that they made everything else perfect, totally messed up 2 of them so badly that there are tons of people saying how bad it is?

not everything that has a minor issue with it is a conspiracy.

kevin

[ullmandds]

Kevin...if you can't look at brads comparison and can't see that every single letter is different...you are blind! You show me any 2 t206 captions close up...and the print will look the same.

This isn't even close!

This is a BIG problem...you'll see!

[nolemmings]

The card looks good to me.
They all look the same? Really? How about this one?
http://photos.imageevent.com/imoverhere/miscellaneous/huge/ma.jpg

EDITED TO ADD LINK to card: http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=29645&searchby=3&searchvalue=magie&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1&seo=1909-1911-T206-Sherry-Magie-%28Magee%29-Rare-Variation-PSA-2-GOOD

[thehoodedcoder]

sure,

compare them now that they are the same size.

take into account the high rate the card would have been moving at as it flew through the press.

take into account moisture differerences that could have affected the cardboard on the surface etc as it sat around for 100 years, or if someone soaked it.

take into account scanners.

im not saying they are not identical. what im saying is that there are lots of plausible reasons why they are slightly different. all of those doesn't mean it is not real or untampered with.

kevin

[alanu]

The "A" in Phila looks a little small in the bottom one too

[ullmandds]

maybe I'm going crazy...I just don't know anymore?!

[thehoodedcoder]

The "A" in Phila looks a little small in the bottom one too

right. because it probably didn't get all of the ink applied in that exact spot. i have half a dozen cards that are missing part of the R, and even more where a very small part of the letter is not perfect when compared to another one, ones of which i own both a real copy and another copy of.

i have cards with the same back and front that are identical and one is bolded and the other one is not and they look vastly different from each other...but both are real.

kevin

[atx840]

I don't really like how it looks, compared it to twenty or so other Magie's and only the Probstein example and the PSA 2 shown have the same font. Both are completely different then all the others. It might be a plate issue similar to the Anderson with a few variations but the font looks fishy to me.

The back & front plates for the Magie should be quite limited to 3 or 4 identifiable plates..think of a vertical stack of 3-4 on a sheet..maybe 1/4 of the plates had this issue and there are fewer out there.

I'm quite suspicious of it.

** these are lined up 100% based on the outside black border, the P shifts as do many colours/layers through out the printing. Steve, could we prove that all Magie's have the Ps lined up vs Magee examples?

http://i.imgur.com/zfKGdoF.gif

[steve B]

The one Todd posted seems to have the identical caption. The shorter letters and a few other pointers. So right now I'm leaning towards it being real.

We could line up a few Magies in a similar animation, that would tell us a lot of stuff.
If the caption is brown and was laid out from a master that had the caption then the realtionship between the P and caption should stay the same for an entire press run. (Barring of course minor changes from humidity, shrinkage etc which should be very small.)
If the captions were done in brown apart from the artwork then it would vary, but should be consistent for each position on the sheet.
The other colors should move in your animation because of varying registration. If they didn't that would indicate cards produced at nearly the same time.

Now that Todd has posted one that's nearly identical, I think the card is more interesting than it first appears.
I've become convinced there were at least three printings with slightly changed artwork for at least some of the 150 series. Maybe more than that. I've been studying Magie because I believed it would have only been on one sheet since it's uncommon, maybe even rare.

This one along with the one Todd posted is making me totally rethink that.
There are a few little things that are exactly right between the two. Like the tiny frame break just left of the top center. But the remnant of an alignment mark in red at the top center is different. The Ebay card also appears to have less red overall, so maybe it's just underinked.
The caption seems more gray than brown on both. I've seen this on other T206s but haven't started tracking it other than a note that it happens. I'd thought it might simply be the use of a different brown, but it could also be the caption being on a different color plate. There are a few things I can think of that photoshop might tell us about color, but it won't be at all conclusive for a lot of reasons. (Unless we had the cards in hand, but Magie is on my "probably never" list:()

I have been able to link particular Magie fronts with particular backs. I was getting ready to start organizing the scans so I could get the info ready for posting. I can also say that more than one plate was reworked to make the corrected version, since I have a scan of a Magie and Magee with identical recognizable backs and some front differences aside from the caption.

I'll have to see if the back of the Ebay card matches any of the others. It's not one of the obvious ones, so it may take some time.

Steve B
PS- Of course there's always the possibility that the card Todd posted is also faked, meaning there's someone capable of replacing a caption well enough to get past grading- something I consider possible but very difficult.

[ullmandds]

Mind you Steve...the one Todd posted is NOT identical...look how wobbly the letters are in phil. am...that's kinda odd?!

[steve B]

Yep, one of the differences.

Looking at the animation, the shape of the P is different too, but looks consistent with the one Todd showed.

But the overall look of the caption is very similar.

Nearly every T206 I look at in any detail has 2-3 different versions. Most slight enough that they can't be counted as variations, but different enough to see from even average scans. I think these two are probably a different run than the usual ones. Hard to believe there'd be two different Magies, but it looks that way.
And most of the scans I have aren't clear enough to tell easily.

Steve B

[Cardboard Junkie]

I'd like to hear Ted Zs thoughts on this.

[obcmac]

Looks like the caption has been re-done. That's the impression that it gives anyways. It could be the scan I suppose, but I wouldn't go near it (even if I could afford it).

Mac

[glynparson]

Than pretend I am 100% sure one way or the other based on a scan.

[Leon]

The comparison Chris posted makes one of them look kind of messed up.

[wonkaticket]

It also happens to have toning and dirt right along the caption area. While not meaning anything per say anytime I see a Magie that has problem areas around the caption I tend to stay clear

I'd have to see it in person but having owned a few Magie's based on the shots it has something that doesn't seem right at first glance to me...FWIW.

Cheers,

John

[atx840]

Quick comparison of "odd" looking Magie example posted earlier and a Magee sale tracked back to painthistorian in 2012 (thanks to CardTarget!). Waiting for higher res scans of Magee.

Both the front and back are swapped, the reverse has almost identical markings, even the factory line is missing paper/ink


http://i.imgur.com/RWMakrN.gif

[ullmandds]

Wow, Chris...great work!!!!

[insccollectibles]

Wow, Chris...great work!!!!

+1

[Cardboard Junkie]

Ay Carumba! Chris.....you're brilliant. After Tuesday even the week says WTF?

[steve B]

Wow, that's impressive.

Looks like changing captions well enough to slide past TPG is confirmed as more than possible.

The odds of there being two cards with the same paper loss and the same diamond cut that also just happen to be the same pose with different captions ..............

Steve B

[ullmandds]

i'm guessing Kevin still is a nonbeliever!

[jhs5120]

I see it was pulled, good job everyone.

[ctownboy]

Quick, call Joe Orlando!!!!!!!!

David

[atx840]

Found the Probstein example, same buyer as the first a few months later. Joe Orlando is looking into it.

121066385371 1 Piedmont 150 SGC 50 joesvintagesportscards -***d $270.00 2013-02-15 00:49:11

221062501656 1 Piedmont 150 PSA 5 painthistorian -***d $511.99 11 2012-07-08 21:09:21

http://i.imgur.com/G6nFTu6.jpg

[MW1]

So both the milehigh example (PSA 2) that sold for a little over $16K and the probstein example (PSA 4) are forgeries that came from the "Magee" varieties. I wonder if the same person is behind both frankencards. It looks like the work is slightly different because on one of the cards there is a lateral movement of text while on the other, there is simply a horizontal movement or kerning. I wonder if the former example employed newly printed letters.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Thank goodness we can all relax, Joe's looking into it.

[MW1]

Looks like the probstein auction has been ended. I have a feeling someone is going to lose his card grading privileges. Both cards are pretty significant forgeries as far as hobby history is concerned.

[Cardboard Junkie]

I see the real problem as incompetent tpg's.

[probstein123]

hey guys,
I can't give all the details, but one of the net54 guys was kind enough to email me ...
we ended the auction based on the data presented..
thanks for letting us know


rick probstein

[ZachS]

You guys never cease to amaze me with this detective stuff.

http://blakesnow.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2013/10/url-1.gif

[Cardboard Junkie]

"The ink bleeds." ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha:D:D:D:D

[MW1]

I see the real problem as incompetent tpg's.David,

No one is perfect. As printing technologies improve so does the ability to create better and more precise reprints and forgeries. I could show you some that would make your head spin. That's why there is great value in the opinion of a TPG and a well-educated collector.

[Cardboard Junkie]

When it comes to forgeries and altered cards, opinions should have nothing to do with it. Condition Yes, that is opinion. Forgeries and alterations are science.

[h2oya311]

Awesome work!

So why did the exact card (barring the name change) get such different grades?? PSA 5 down to PSA 2. I'm not a conspiracy theory kinda guy, but maybe there's some collusion w/ PSA graders who wanted the card to not be traced back to a Magee PSA 5 and/or didn't want the card to get even more attention as a "mid grade" example vs a low grade example.

Just sayin'!!

[h2oya311]

I hope Joe looks into it real closely. That card, had it been legit, should not have gotten a grade of 2 unless there was some new undetectable paper loss.

[AddieJoss]

My thanks to the Net54 crew. I would have not thought it was fake without all the data here and expert opinion. Myself or someone else would have purchased it.
Thanks,
Cory

[atx840]

The buyer of the original Magee's also bought a Doyle.....not good.

110950722688 1 Piedmont 350 PSA 2 lharri3600 -***d $138.50 2012-09-12 14:13:46

http://www.cardtarget.com/cgi-bin/gm_price_history.cgi?cardID=2044265234&variation=&grader=&grade=&page=1

[ullmandds]

Great job, chris...you ARE...the man!!!

[wonkaticket]

Well there you go if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck it will most likely be slabbed a goose until somebody steps in duck poop.

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/websize/joeo.jpg

[sb1]

so.. wouldn't the simple solution be to ask the sellers(whom we all know) who they sold the cards to???

[wonkaticket]

So both the milehigh example (PSA 2) that sold for a little over $16K and the probstein example (PSA 4) are forgeries that came from the "Magee" varieties. I wonder if the same person is behind both frankencards. It looks like the work is slightly different because on one of the cards there is a lateral movement of text while on the other, there is simply a horizontal movement or kerning. I wonder if the former example employed newly printed letters.

Mike agree the PSA 2 is almost laughable, but the PSA 4 if one wasn't really looking could pass by lots of folks no questions asked.

As you know this is a card that has been being faked since the hobby began. To me this is one card that every collector should review and review and get somebody else also who knows a lot or they trust to review before spending money on this card. IMO.

Again what a surprise damage near the name....and what do you know a tweak job.

[nolemmings]

so.. wouldn't the simple solution be to ask the sellers(whom we all know) who they sold the cards to???

If not a solution, it sure would make a great start, along with the identity of the Mile High consignor.

[obcmac]

It didn't seem that hard to spot...but I guess it is worrisome. I think that if anybody cared about the actual integrity of the hobby, they would be forthcoming about the trail. If the same person bought it in the original auction, submitted it for grading, then consigned to Rick...there would be a cut and dry case. I hope Joe, Rick or the original seller of the unaltered card makes another appearance.

Mac

Looks like the caption has been re-done. That's the impression that it gives anyways. It could be the scan I suppose, but I wouldn't go near it (even if I could afford it).

Mac

[jp1216]

I'll be sending all of my cards to CBA - "Chris Browne Authenticators" of Calgary (rats, customs forms). Great work Chris. Keep them honest.

[ullmandds]

it may not have been hard to spot for some of us...but it obviously was for the bidders...and some board members as well. I say job well done...and hopefully this will lead to the removal of some thief(thieves) from the hobby and a safer marketplace for everyone.

My kudos go to Doug...for bringing it up...and Chris for providing the evidence!

Great work guys!

[atx840]

Kudos to everyone. Doug for spotting it, Todd for sharing the PSA 2 scan and Cardtarget for their awesome data collecting and scans. Was also nice to see Probstein jump on it quickly.

Hopefully the owner of the other example is contacted and PSA figured out who created these.

[npa589]

Really impressive everyone, but I'm still shocked that members think starting this thread was "doing anything". :rolleyes:


Honestly though, if it were not for many members on this board, the hobby would be in much dire straits than it's currently in. Net54: Sultans of Tobacco

Also, like any field, there are people devoid of any character who would sell their soul for a buck. Yes, TPG has an unacceptable amount of problems, but, law enforcement frequently needs to encounter the new way thieves are cheating the system before they can adjust.

[probstein123]

I'm still in shock that such a high profile card could get holdered.....
very upsetting , I've been an active collector since 1976...and this has always been a problem in our industry....I bought a collection of 1915 cracker jacks in 1982 and then someone told me they were bleached.....
anyways,
I'm shipping the card to psa today....

[the 'stache]

"You're sick over a baseball card. They're just baseball cards, give me a break!"

[npa589]

Rick:

I know you probably can't release any names, but, do you know if the person that consigned the card is the same person who bought the pre-fraudulent card from sellers that are on this board? Have you been in touch with them yet?

I'm curious if this buyer sold it for a bargain to someone who is now sitting with a fraudulent item. At the very least, he's probably going to say he got it from someone else...

[Cardboard Junkie]

A big issue is that a collector cannot trust TPGs, even with a big ticket items like this. They are incompetent. There will always be fakes and altered cards and thieves. What the hobby needs is trust worthy tpgs. As a side note, we have looked at so many Magee/Magies lately maybe Dan's will show up.:)Dave ps Bill (stache), nice one.:D

[the 'stache]

According to SMR, the Magie error in a PSA 4 is valued at $22,500.

One would think that a $20k + card would warrant a close inspection, especially the name portion of the caption, which alone makes the card infinitely more valuable than the corrected version.

I'm sure that more than one person at PSA examined the card. And they both whiffed. How the hell is this friggin' possible? Are they there to provide an expert opinion as to the authenticity and condition of the cards that are sent to them? Or are they there just to make money?

The quote I referenced earlier from Matt's conversation with Joe Orlando is indicative of a significant problem at PSA that starts at the very top.

"They're just baseball cards."

These baseball cards represent substantial investments by the people that own them, and you have a responsibility to examine them properly.

[Cardboard Junkie]

You hit the nail on the head Bill, "How is this Friggin possible?"
"Just baseball cards." Yeah, right, with many worth way more than their weight in gold.

[Miniduff]

Things we will never know:

Who submitted both cards to PSA?
Were they both subbed by the same source?
Were they both graded by the same person?

Has the submitter(s) been banned?
Has the grader been disciplined?

As the former CEO of a financial institution, I can tell you that there were consequences when someone missed a fraud. severe ones if they did not follow procedure.

Common sense, when someone sends a deposit through the mail of a credit card check, made out to them personally, drawn on someone else, for thousands of dollars, you look at it more closely than a payroll check coming in weekly...

[chaddurbin]

Things we will never know:

Who submitted both cards to PSA?
Were they both subbed by the same source?
Were they both graded by the same person?

Has the submitter(s) been banned?
Has the grader been disciplined?


as mentioned these things can be easily verified. a board member sold the unaltered magie, probstein knows who the consignor is, joe orlando knows who submitted the card. the grader(s) is probably just incompetent. submitter might try to sneak the card in a lower value sub so the more experienced grader might not see it.

have heard stories from way back where forgers would wait for big shows where the most experienced graders would be doing on-site grading and they'd mail an overnight order to psa in cali where the less-experienced graders are left. could be a hobby urban myth but seems plausible.

edit: kudos to chris, great detective work!

[steve B]

According to SMR, the Magie error in a PSA 4 is valued at $22,500.

One would think that a $20k + card would warrant a close inspection, especially the name portion of the caption, which alone makes the card infinitely more valuable than the corrected version.

I'm sure that more than one person at PSA examined the card. And they both whiffed. How the hell is this friggin' possible? Are they there to provide an expert opinion as to the authenticity and condition of the cards that are sent to them? Or are they there just to make money?

The quote I referenced earlier from Matt's conversation with Joe Orlando is indicative of a significant problem at PSA that starts at the very top.

"They're just baseball cards."

These baseball cards represent substantial investments by the people that own them, and you have a responsibility to examine them properly.

The problem isn't necessarily the "it's just baseball cards" attitude. In fact that can be a good thing, if you want someone truly objective.
I've noticed that some cards that are "special" - Wagner, Magie, etc always seem to get a grade slightly better than it seems. That's always been true, perhaps less so with TPG than before. The Wagner I saw in person went from f-g, creases, writing, wear...Through 3-4 public sales about 6 months apart, gaining a grade each time the last ad had it as VG?

The other part of the problem is the backwards system all TPGs use. In other hobbies the cheap stuff gets approved right away, the better stuff takes longer, and sometimes needs to be accompanied by copies of research to get anything other than "we decline to offer an opinion" . The experts can usually make the call in under a minute when giving an item a first look, but will take longer when doing the actual examining.
So instead of making the turnaround 30 days on something like an 81 Topps common and a day or less for a Magie. It should be the other way around.

That being said, even with the other stuff mistakes happen, and new information constantly comes to light. Like a dealer with boxes full of great stuff - Too much stuff that's too nice- finally being caught with the device that made the great examples of rare cancels on stamps. A lot of his stuff passed authentication, then some discoveries were made and questions asked and eventually he was caught. A big problem, but everyone learned from it. The fakes are saved for study rather than being destroyed.
And sometimes the "fakes" are proven legit as new information is found and new techniques are used.

Reversing the time for the price tiers would probably go a long way towards fixing some problems. Then expensive stuff like Magies could get a more serious examination. With a one day turnaround, there's just not enough time. Given more time and access to a database of images a comparison like Chris did could be done for all expensive cards. And that would lead to fewer mistakes.

I have a decent collection of images of Magies, and the second fake which I didn't have an image of fooled me into supporting the second. Terrible methodology on my part. I should have considered the other fake suspect as well barring better proof. Too much trust that the exact same thing wouldn't slide past twice. :( That's why image collections and a variety of comparisons are important.

Steve B

Steve B

[the 'stache]

Steve, if you will remember the conversation to which I am referring, Matt Miller had a very high end PSA graded 1960 Topps Hank Aaron which he sent in for review, along with several other valuable cards. He contacted PSA in advance of his submission, and Joe Orlando promised to personally oversee the entire process for him.

When he checked the grades online a week later, the PSA 8.5 (which had a population of 2) was now listed as a 7. PSA had damaged the card, and when Matt next spoke to Orlando, he told Matt that no reviewed card had ever been damaged by PSA previously. Obviously, Orlando was not being truthful.

Put yourself in Matt's place. PSA compensated him for the lost value of the card, and then Orlando became indignant when Matt expressed how upset he was. That's where the "you're sick over a baseball card. They're just baseball cards, give me a break" line came from.

Respectfully, I don't see any way this statement could be a good thing. When the President of PSA says a customer should not be upset when one of their valuable cards is damaged, it's a big problem.

[steve B]

Sorry for any confusion, sometimes I don't explain my ideas well.

I wasn't referring to Matts situation. Expressing "It's just cards" to a customer whose card you've damaged IS wrong, AND lousy PR and customer service.

My point is that for objectivity someone who doesn't know a lot about cards will usually be a more accurate grader overall. I've tried it with friends and it works. I give them the standards and a handful of cards - a few commons and a star rookie that's a bit worn. Not looking for a precise technical grade, just G,VG,EX, NM, they're nearly 100% accurate.
People who are baseball fans or know a little about cards are typically less accurate, giving the star a better grade than it deserves.
More experienced collectors are better at it- maybe being a bit jaded. But that breaks down at some point for most of us. (and those that are beyond that have a bit of admiration from me. )

The point about a need to take more time on more expensive items rather than less isn't an opinion I'll change easily.

Steve B

[ullmandds]

I think taking longer to grade more valuable cards makes perfect sense. I mean we have to pay significantly more to have these cards graded...shouldnt we receive a higher level of service? Like a better holder? High def recorded scans? Maybe even a comparison of other previously graded like cards?

It makes sense!

[Leon]

I think taking longer to grade more valuable cards makes perfect sense. I mean we have to pay significantly more to have these cards graded...shouldnt we receive a higher level of service? Like a better holder? High def recorded scans? Maybe even a comparison of other previously graded like cards?

It makes sense!

It does make sense. TPGs charge more, generally, to grade more valuable cards so why not spend a couple extra minutes on them?

[the 'stache]

I think taking longer to grade more valuable cards makes perfect sense. I mean we have to pay significantly more to have these cards graded...shouldnt we receive a higher level of service? Like a better holder? High def recorded scans? Maybe even a comparison of other previously graded like cards?

It makes sense!

It does make sense. TPGs charge more, generally, to grade more valuable cards so why not spend a couple extra minutes on them?

Agreed 100%. With modern cards, which until recently has made up the majority of my collection, where a card's value will go is an unknown. That Bowman Chrome prospect refractor auto could be the next Mike Trout, or Greg Jefferies. So it is important to grade those cards accurately without spending an inordinate amount of time on them.

However, if I sent in a Eddie Plank T206 to grade (I can dream!), they better spend a little longer examining it than they do a 2013 Stephen Strasburg Topps common.

[Dario7707]

I

[irishdenny]

Honestly... I Most Always watch these threads from afar!

Cause in the End the Truth iS Unveiled... & I Glean from The Knowledge!

When it Comes to T206's It is So True... That if it Doesn't Look Right,
"iT's NoT RiGHT!!!"

However... Sometimes it takes some hashing out... RiGHT!?

I Am Curious though... aS to HoW Much Cash this Cracken' Sharp Board
HaS Saved the World of Collector's!

I do believe that it would be of some interest... To Start a NeW Topic Area in Order to "Save" the Cost of What was "Saved" by MakiN' Sure the Public didn't get Fleeced ... So to Speak.

According to CardTarget: A PSA 2 Sold fir $15,000 Last December...

So... A Good Start to the Thread would be a Hefty $15,000 fir the Good Guyz!

Thread Name: Net54 ~ What MiGHT a BeeN Lost ~ BuT WaS SaveD!" (oR?)

DATE
28 October 2014

CARD
1910 PSA 2 MAGEE (Magie) ERROR Card

AMOUNT ($)
+ $15,000.00

Member(s)
!?!?!?!, !?!?!?!? & !?!?!?!

I do think that it would be Appropriate for a Forth Column for the Net54 Members to be Acknowledged for Their Work!

So... The "Net54 Members" would come after the Cash Saved Column!

Just a Thought from One who has been Helped Numerous Times in the Past 15oR So Years by Many who are here... And Some Who I have Very Good Memories of... and are not : -)

Any thoughts!?

As Always My Friends...

[A&G CR]

who was the creator of the fake magie? Anyone ever press charges with all this evidence?