1913 D&M Joe Jackson Sign

[ruth-gehrig]

Anyone here get the Joe Jackson sign last night off ebay? It had been restored but I thought it was still a good buy. I placed a bid but didn't get it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:B:WNA:US:3160

[khkco4bls]

Why does it show it was removed.

[MGHPro]

I bid but I had a lot of concerns about the sign beyond the restoration . If it turns out to truly be authentic it was a great buy .
Matt

[perezfan]

Why does it show it was removed.

eBay would only show that message if there was a problem/questions surrounding the authenticity. This is the same disclaimer you see when they remove a bad autograph.

[Shoeless Moe]

after it sold?

[thecatspajamas]

after it sold?

On occasion, yes. If it's after the item sold, when they pull the listing they also send the buyer a boilerplate notice basically telling them not to complete the transaction but not really giving any specific details.

In this case, I only get the "broken link" message when I click on the original posted link. I don't know if it's because the item was pulled, or whatever it is that often causes problems with links posted here on the board to eBay items.

[khkco4bls]

I googled it and it came up. Is that the one for 535.00 dollars. If it is it doesn't look good to me. Why is the clarity of it so bad? Someone can post it from google.
.

[ruth-gehrig]

Would love to know if someone on the board got it!

[perezfan]

I believe the eBay sale did indeed go through...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Baseball-Item-1913-Shoeless-Joe-Jackson-Diecut-Cardboard-Sign-D-M-/310783245724?ViewItem=&ssPageName=ADME%3AB%3AWNA%3AUS%3A3160&item=310783245724&nma=true&si=fY9OLpDsJdfc7LDd1qSgId7nCM4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557#ht_254wt_1141

Below is a prior example from REA, for comparison... IMO the REA example is much crisper/clearer than the one on ebay. Perhaps the seller's camera lens was just really dirty!

http://bid.robertedwardauctions.com/bidplace.aspx?itemid=14570

[perezfan]

Just to play "Devil's Advocate", the clarity on the ebay example could be lots worse, as a result of the heavy resotoration. ;)

[CarltonHendricks]

I remember that piece from within the last couple weeks.....I put the brakes on long enough to give it a once over...Based on the photos the front looked like it could be real...but then I recall when I looked at the back I started laughing...the front was all fatigued...but the back looked new...I gave it a look over and was out of there as fast as I came in...

[Shoeless Moe]

I remember that piece from within the last couple weeks.....I put the brakes on long enough to give it a once over...Based on the photos the front looked like it could be real...but then I recall when I looked at the back I started laughing...the front was all fatigued...but the back looked new...I gave it a look over and was out of there as fast as I came in...

U remember the piece from a couple of weeks ago? in person or from ebay?...

U say based on the photos it looked like it could be real so u were looking at photos of it, or the actual piece in your hands? then u say u were out of there as fast as you came in? in where?

[ruth-gehrig]

Carlton - Was it at one time being represented and offered without mention of the restoration because he fully disclosed the restoration and rebacking on ebay.

[TUM301]

Carlton - Was it at one time being represented and offered without mention of the restoration because he fully disclosed the restoration and rebacking on ebay.

Exactly, this is the area that thru me off. Would rather have seem it offered pre restoration . very interesting piece to say the least.

[murphusa]

I am guessing the restoration cost more than what he got on ebay

[perezfan]

I was thinking the same... not much room for profit there.

[CarltonHendricks]

Carlton - Was it at one time being represented and offered without mention of the restoration because he fully disclosed the restoration and rebacking on ebay.

Michael, My bad...I never made it to the description...I looked at the front...then when I saw the back immediately dismissed it as a new repro that was so bad they didn't take the time to fatigue the back to match the front...I took it for just another fake that was remarkably sloppy and left the page without even reading what it had to say...but now that I read here restoration and a new backing was disclosed I get it...I understand all the interest....

[Shoeless Moe]

Anyone here get the Joe Jackson sign last night off ebay? It had been restored but I thought it was still a good buy. I placed a bid but didn't get it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...:B:WNA:US:3160

Me

[Shoeless Moe]

I do not know whether it is real or a reproduction. Like J Gallo said on the other side, I too have never seen these come up b4, so if they were faked usually you would see a couple, however that being said this very well could have been a 1 and done repro by someone.

The seller is 100% genuine and a good guy. He offered me a full refund if it turns out to not be real. So that led me to take a chance, not to mention the extensive research he did.

First he like us Googled it and found the only other one at REA a few years ago, so he contacted them. They could not make a determination over the emailed pix and said they would need to see it in person or he should take it to a professional art restoration service and see if they could determine.

Well he did that, and the restoration company told him it matched printing methods and die cuts of the era.

REA recommended to him to get it restored, which he did.

So.......unless the restoration company, which is Phoenix Art Restoration in Seattle Washington, which is Better Business Bureau accredited is wrong, which I guess is always possible, I think it could be real, and was definitely worth the gamble.

I should get it Tues or Weds and will attempt to determine on my own, but if I can't there is the Chicago Sports Show in town, the following week, and I know Heritage and a few others will be there, I will show it to them.

He is including all the Phoenix Art Restoration paperwork, and b4 and after pix......so....we'll see.

[Shoeless Moe]

"It's real and its spectacular!"

To quote Jerry Seinfeld.

I'm still not 100% sure, so I will take it to the sports show next week. REA also mentioned putting it under a black light, unfortunately I do not have one. I'll ask around, or anyone know where to find a blacklight? And would the restoration affect the black light test?

The report from the Restoration Company sure sounds like the piece is real. It looks old & feels old. They state its old. They also mention in their report, "the paper was flaky and fragile due to its age". They also mention it had mildew on his leg, poor Joe.

It is dark though, so while it may be from 1913, the darkness makes it look more like its from his Black Sox days. Like Leon said it might benefit some more from some more restoration. I'll post some more pix over the next few days but you've pretty much seen it so not sure what it would add.

[BigJJ]

anyone know where to find a blacklight?

If you're in New York, you're welcome to bring it here, I have one.
Anyone who deals in art on the secondary market should have one - art dealer or local auction house.
If you want to purchase one, this is the supplier I used http://www.gainsboroughproducts.com/uvl_inspection.html

[Shoeless Moe]

Thanks, good info.....learn something new everyday here. Maybe I can find a local art dealer who has one.

And no, I'm near Chicago, but thanks for the offer, appreciate it.

[Shoeless Moe]

I am more convinced of its authenticity.

The original seller was told by REA to take the piece and put a blacklight to it, if it fluoresces then its modern, if it does not, vintage.

Well I just now did that and the only parts that fluoresced where the touchups by the restoration company.

Like Bugsy said cheap restoration can hurt a piece, and I'm afraid they have done that here a little. But I can't blame the original seller of this, not sure who would fork out 4 digits to restore, when its worth 4 digits. Except for an advanced collector of course.

But as Leon said perhaps more restoration can fix and lighten it a bit.

Here's a pix under the blacklight next to the SCP catalog that just arrived, you can see how that fluoresces.

[Shoeless Moe]

Here are some additional pix not under the blacklight.

[Shoeless Moe]

dog

[ruth-gehrig]

I'm glad you got it Paul! :) I had been hoping a member picked it up and it turn out to be good!

[Runscott]

Beautiful piece, Paul.

[baseballart]

Like Bugsy said cheap restoration can hurt a piece, and I'm afraid they have done that here a little.

Paul

A good restorer should be able to properly restore the piece, hopefully including the restoration work just done. I think a piece like yours is worth it. Very nice piece.