View Full Version : Historic 1935 National Chicle Bronco Nagurski Find
I am happy to help announce a find and subsequent auction of one of the holy grails of football card collecting. Wilson's Auctioneers and Appraisers are auctioning them on Oct. 16, 2013. Details are here...
http://luckeycards.com/wilson1b.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/wilson2.jpg
http://luckeycards.com/wilson3.jpg
Rickyy
10-11-2013, 06:01 PM
Wow!
Ricky Y
whitehse
10-11-2013, 06:52 PM
My jaw has dropped to the floor.
I have been around the hobby for over 40 years and I can say I have not seen more than 5 or 6 of the Bronko cards in my life time and usually they are in pretty sad shape. This is an incredible find that I have no doubt the hobby will absorb with no damage to the value of the Nagurski's.
oddball
10-11-2013, 10:20 PM
Wow! Thanks for posting!
Yep, great find and a cool story about the collector. Sounds like he was a great man, and a dedicated collector that didn't focus so much on value, but on the cards and players themselves.
It's funny how the phrase "Only 135 examples graded by PSA" can mean extreme rarity to some. I guess it's all a matter of perspective.
I'm assuming they'll have all the Nagurskis graded. It will be interesting to see how they all grade out, as well as the final selling prices.
tschock
10-12-2013, 01:18 PM
I'm assuming they'll have all the Nagurskis graded. It will be interesting to see how they all grade out, as well as the final selling prices.
Yeah, I saw this the other day as well. They are all graded now (not sure if they were by the original owner though). I don't think I'm "outing" anything by providing the link I found this on (since you can see as well from going to the their web site).
http://www.estatesales.net/estate-sales/PA/Chester-Heights/19017/515532
VintageBall
10-12-2013, 03:26 PM
It looks like 3 cards may be reprints in lot 45 of this auction:
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/20618880_vintage-off-grade-card-collection-with-cobb-and-speaker
The description lists one reprint (the Walter Johnson card), but don't the 1913 National Game Ty Cobb and 1904 Fan Craze McAleer look like reprints, as well?
Robert S
It looks like 3 cards may be reprints in lot 45 of this auction:
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/20618880_vintage-off-grade-card-collection-with-cobb-and-speaker
The description lists one reprint (the Walter Johnson card), but don't the 1913 National Game Ty Cobb and 1904 Fan Craze McAleer look like reprints, as well?
Robert S
I agree Robert. Looks like those three aren't good.
bigfish
10-12-2013, 03:58 PM
Look like someone is trying to capitalize. Great find and I am surprised the auctioneer has let a few extra lots mix in. It is clear they are fakes. If it is an original find....leave it that way....don't let scumbags try capitalize with the fake lots. They should be withdrawn from the sale. Only will hurt the overall sale. Cheers
z28jd
10-12-2013, 04:14 PM
Do other grading companies not grade these cards or is that just a mistake in the listing when it says 135 PSA cards = 135 graded cards? I would assume it's a mistake.
I looked it up, there are 38 SGC examples graded.
As someone said above, it is funny what people consider extreme rarity. I collect Old Judge cards, where plenty of cards number ten or less known, not just graded examples
ctownboy
10-12-2013, 05:50 PM
z28jd,
I also own some cards where there are less than five known. So I know what you are talking about.
In my opinion, when it comes to cards that are so rare, a lot of collectors hear the low numbers and think they would be so hard to find they consider them non-existent. So, for example, my Star Player Candy cards are so rare but their prices are not that high. Most likely because collectors don't want to go after them because they don't show up very often.
Another example were four common Curtis Ireland Candy cards that just sold in an auction a few days ago for $500 dollars. The breakdowns were as follows: "1 of 3 highest graded, only graded, 1 of 3, highest graded and 1 of 3, one better".
Can you imagine the prices on these if they were common T 206's, 1933 Goudey's or 1952 Topps? However because of their rarity, they didn't go for very much.
With the 1935 Chicle football set, I think they are just hard enough to find to put a set together that when it comes to the Nagurski, 135 graded cards gives people the feeling of rare enough but not impossible to find and thus the prices for these cards should be healthy.
David
z28jd
10-12-2013, 10:37 PM
Could it be possible that if you told someone there are 180 total graded Nagurski's now, it might drop the price a little because that number is actually pretty high? I'm willing to bet a lot of people didn't know there were that many graded already.
If I was looking for a specific card and you told me there were that many, I might wait for a better deal. I could be wrong, that just seems like a high number and obviously there are plenty out there that aren't graded yet.
The card could be more popular than I think. I don't know many vintage non-baseball collectors so that could skew my thinking.
RCMcKenzie
10-12-2013, 11:59 PM
When I first saw this auction, my first thought was that McKee must have emailed them to explain that they have J=k cards.
The auctioneer asked me to post a short addendum for them. I am happy to oblige.
"Lots 1-44 and 55-65 cards are part of the Heaney estate; additional cards were consigned by other sellers and are a bit more rough; we didn't expect any reprints. We appreciate the replies that brought this to our attention in the thread. We're sorry if there was any confusion--that press release was highlighting this Heaney Estate"
.
clamendo
10-14-2013, 06:55 PM
Leon - shouldn't this post be moved to the football forum?
Leon - shouldn't this post be moved to the football forum?
I will copy it over to that forum. The auction company is paying to advertise on this site and the front page gets the most views. So advertisements like this will always be posted on the main page...but can be copied to other forums too. Thanks for the heads up...
the 'stache
10-14-2013, 08:44 PM
Thank you for sharing this, Leon!
To me, these are the kinds of stories that make the hobby so great. We have no idea what untold treasures are still out there, waiting to be found. But more importantly, reading how this man cherished his cards should touch something in all of us as hobby enthusiasts.
Jim Heaney is a man I wish I could have known.
bigfish
10-16-2013, 02:26 PM
Was that JK Candy Carrigan real? The scan looked funky. Hope someone here won it if real.
Was that JK Candy Carrigan real? The scan looked funky. Hope someone here won it if real.
I think it and the Wags were both real. I had bids in but they would have been upgrades so didn't go "all in". Both brought decent prices as well as the other things I tracked.
Runscott
10-16-2013, 02:38 PM
The higher-grade Nagurski's went low, but the low-grade went high :confused:
I wasn't close on any of them; however, I did win something that's pretty huge for my collection, so THANK YOU LEON! FOR ADVERTISING THIS!!!
lot #1 PSA 5 - $6,000l + 18%
lot #2 PSA 2 - $2,300 +
lot#3 PSA 1 - $1,600 +
lot#20 PSA 3 - $3,300 +
lot#21 PSA 2 - $2,900 +
lot#22 PSA 1.5 - $2,800 +
lot#63 PSA 1 (MK) - $1,800 +
lot #64 PSA 2 - $3,000 +
lot #65 PSA 4.5 - $5,250 +
bigfish
10-16-2013, 02:38 PM
Thanks Leon. I was in on both as well. Those die cuts were cool to. Sisler was nice.
I did get one of the Bronco cards.
ScottFandango
10-16-2013, 03:01 PM
The higher-grade Nagurski's went low, but the low-grade went high :confused:
I wasn't close on any of them; however, I did win something that's pretty huge for my collection, so THANK YOU LEON! FOR ADVERTISING THIS!!!
lot #1 PSA 5 - $6,000l + 18%
lot #2 PSA 2 - $2,300 +
lot#3 PSA 1 - $1,600 +
lot#20 PSA 3 - $3,300 +
lot#21 PSA 2 - $2,900 +
lot#22 PSA 1.5 - $2,800 +
lot#63 PSA 1 (MK) - $1,800 +
lot #64 PSA 2 - $3,000 +
lot #65 PSA 4.5 - $5,250 +
THATS ALL THEY WENT FOR?
they way the auctioneers fawned over the "find" you would think they would sell for over $25,000...
maybe the fact that its not that rare a card after all is trumping all
Cobra Kai
10-16-2013, 05:38 PM
I just want to thank Leon for his post about this auction. I literally live 15 minutes away & knew nothing about this auction until I read your post yesterday.
Prices were strong in my opinion. I was underbidder on 2 of the Nagurskis, but I did score one of the PSA 5 Rocknes.
Thanks again Leon!
danmckee
10-16-2013, 05:40 PM
I think it and the Wags were both real. I had bids in but they would have been upgrades so didn't go "all in". Both brought decent prices as well as the other things I tracked.
OK who hammered me on the J=K Wagner? I was under bidder and live on site. I won the Carrigan, it feels real but something is bothering me with it, I need to look at my other 10 Type II J=K's for comparison. It is slightly different then the one I brought with me to compare to. Why on earth fake the Carrigan??? And a darn good fake if fake, only difference from the one I took with me was Carrigan was a little larger in size (actual picture frame size). And there is a dot pattern in the name field I do not like that the one I took with me doesn't have! Usually the kiss of death! At least with D304s!
I also won the Middys so I hope they are good too. Didn't have time to inspect them.
Who out gunned me on my matching Wagner????
I have the Type II die cut one already.
Dan
OK who hammered me on the J=K Wagner? I was under bidder and live on site. I won the Carrigan, it feels real but something is bothering me with it, I need to look at my other 10 Type II J=K's for comparison. It is slightly different then the one I brought with me to compare to. Why on earth fake the Carrigan??? And a darn good fake if fake, only difference from the one I took with me was Carrigan was a little larger in size (actual picture frame size). And there is a dot pattern in the name field I do not like that the one I took with me doesn't have! Usually the kiss of death! At least with D304s!
I also won the Middys so I hope they are good too. Didn't have time to inspect them.
Who out gunned me on my matching Wagner????
I have the Type II die cut one already.
Dan
Isn't that the one you were asking 75k for at the National? I thought you might have sold it....
g_vezina_c55
10-16-2013, 05:57 PM
amazing
danmckee
10-16-2013, 05:59 PM
Isn't that the one you were asking 75k for at the National? I thought you might have sold it....
Ha! That wasn't going anywhere, I didn't have it this year with me. It is still safe and sound! It fills in as my T206 Wagner since the image is the same.
bigfish
10-16-2013, 06:02 PM
I dropped out around 1800 on Wagner. Live auctioneer bidder was hammering it. Awesome snag on the Carrigan.
Ha! That wasn't going anywhere, I didn't have it this year with me. It is still safe and sound! It fills in as my T206 Wagner since the image is the same.
I like the E90-2 for that purpose. And maybe I saw your J=k Wags at a different show...Oaks or Philly? I went up to about 2k on this Wags today but just didn't have the funds to battle it out. Thanks to Trucker Boy for this one below..and to note, this one card was the start of my biggest score, by many many times, ever......
http://luckeycards.com/pe902wagner.jpg
danmckee
10-16-2013, 06:07 PM
I like the E90-2 for that purpose. And maybe I saw your J=k Wags at a different show...Oaks or Philly? I went up to about 2k on this Wags today but just didn't have the funds to battle it out. Thanks to Trucker Boy for this one below..and to note, this one card was the start of my biggest score, by many many times, ever......
http://luckeycards.com/pe902wagner.jpg
I love the E90-2! I do not have one. Your Western Playground and West Coast score was your biggest if I remember correctly. That was an amazing hit!
danmckee
10-16-2013, 06:21 PM
Update: Carrigan is absolutely good! I have others with the dot pattern into the name field and the paper stock is exact! Good news for whoever won the Wagner! Was it you Greg Schwartz???
WillowGrove
10-16-2013, 06:29 PM
Update: Carrigan is absolutely good! I have others with the dot pattern into the name field and the paper stock is exact! Good news for whoever won the Wagner! Was it you Greg Schwartz???
I'm glad it's real Dan. I've been watching this auction for about a month and was thinking what this Wagner would go for - and I was right. had my itchy trigger on the mouse but just couldn't pull the trigger.
So twasn't me.
Dan - if you can - can you post some scans of your other J-k's? BTW, any other orange border HOFers for sale?
I love my Wagner for the same reason Leon.
Interesting day. A little let down by not going for it but it sure broke up the work day.
peter
ullmandds
10-16-2013, 06:31 PM
what'd the wags sell for? I totally spaced on this auction?
WillowGrove
10-16-2013, 06:38 PM
+18%
danmckee
10-16-2013, 06:39 PM
what'd the wags sell for? I totally spaced on this auction?
I bailed at $3200 +15%
Just call me "Chicken Shit"
ullmandds
10-16-2013, 06:39 PM
thanks pete
ullmandds
10-16-2013, 06:40 PM
and dan
I bailed at $3200 +15%
Just call me "Chicken Shit"
You were probably the underbidder then. I remember thinking it ended around 3800-3900 after juice...
RCMcKenzie
10-17-2013, 04:42 AM
Dan, Congrats on the Carrigan.
I saw this auction a few days before it was advertised on here and the Wagner already had 4 absentee bids. I never signed up. I think we may see it again.
Runscott
10-17-2013, 10:04 AM
Apparently I won a lot online, then the auctioneer still sold it on the floor without re-opening. They later sent me an invoice and I arranged for shipping. But someone else has paid and picked up.
Needless to say, I will not again make the mistake of using 'Live Auctioneers.'
Hopefully no one else got screwed yesterday.
RCMcKenzie
10-19-2013, 06:13 AM
Scott,
I have been on the floor for a "Live Auctioneers" auction and the auctioneer does everything he can to sell it to someone in the room, including allowing floor bidders to 1 up internet bidders after the hammer. The internet bids are treated lower than phone bids. When the high bid is on the internet, the auctioneer says, "the high bid is on the internet" and the crowd laughs. To win a bid on Live Auctioneers from your home computer you have to be high bidder above the estimate and above everyone in the room. I really like the format though. The Saco River style auctions are really the best imo.