Autograph News Live - criminals or just cowards?

[Michael Frost]

I was able to produce the two cowards out of hiding this week by using myself as a pawn.
As you can see if you wish to visit the soon to be removed website both Stephen Koschal and Todd Mueller are involved with ANL. With nowhere left to hide both Koschal and Mueller have come out fighting. Using there known scare tactics of lies, deceit, twist and turns and misleading propaganda. Their signature embellished personal attacks and attacks on family member are all present and read to me as a fingerprint. The methods are not difficult to authenticate as we have seen it used many times before on Steve Cyrkin, Roger Epperson, JSA, R&R and anyone else that may question their business tactics.
We are dealing with one coward named Todd Mueller , who lives day by day in fear of being exposed and the fear of any attacks and or being reprimanded by Stephen Koschal. Then you have Stephen Koschal whom many call a coward but I know he has no fear and nothing to live for. Koschal will lie, cheat, manipulator, and a use a friend or associates all in an afford to hide his business, his money and his past. He is not a coward and I would consider him vicious and dangerous. He is now a lot older, and has lost almost everything he ones had except Todd Mueller and a older woman that he is using for his daily living. With the closing down of his brain child and his voice Autograph Alert, a website that I had insisted for years he close down he has been left a disparate man. He is now calling me a Rat yet asking that questions be answered.??
For those not familiar with Stephen Koschal her is just a piece of The Past.

Stephen Koschal, has been called "The Creepiest Man in the Memorabilia Industry," He's been accused in trade publications and watchdog websites of forging the signatures of Geronimo, Elvis Presley, the NASA Apollo 11 crew, Walt Disney, and Martin Luther King Jr.
Koschal's enemies in the industry have even published a 2003 New Jersey restraining order his mother filed against him. He acknowledges he was "harassing" Mom, trying to recover a collection of bone fragments from each of the Catholic Church's 365 saints--"worth more than $1 million,"
Stephen Koschal who claims to be an autograph expert –. In particular, the Court found that Koschal was “not qualified to render an opinion on anything having to do with autographs.”
Make your "donations" for Haiti out to Stephen Koschal! Sad but I did.
"We know from all the emails we have received from our readers over the last five years that they have a big heart. Now is the time to open your hearts and donate money to help those in desperate need in Haiti." (Another Koschal business opportunity.)

Koschal takes a piece of a Titanic life boat. He may not have known it then??, but couldn't miss the fact now, that the piece he removed was actually from the 1953 movie prop. The actual life boat from the Titanic is unknown.
It is estimated that Steven Koschal has sold hundreds of these Titanic "relics".
The grave dirt I will discuss later because I am a witness to that process by Koschal.

Autographalert.com- Taken down off the Internet;
The "anonymous" blog site, founded by Stephen Koschal and Todd Mueller in 2005, was reportedly established to counteract the successes of the leading third party authenticators, PSA/DNA and then JSA. But Koschal soon started using it to carry out personal vendettas against a hit list of autograph dealers, organizations and publications, including Autograph Magazine. Shut down as part of a lawsuit against Koschal.
Stephen Koschal's new threat of family attacks and revenge using autograph News Live (ANL), is now using a factious business card or mine that he begged me for 15 years ago. He is claiming I lost my home and my family is going behind my back ,it is important from me to share a small taste of what Koschal is up to know and what you the hobby is and has been dealing with.
Here is a Steve Koschal business card and pieces of the World Trade Center that he has in his possession and is now pedaling privately.

114128



Here is Koschal's 2nd side business, not only does he use these Disabled Persons Parking Permits, but being involved with a RN he has told me he has access and is also peddling these.
I have both these pieces of evidence in hand I am prepared to release them to authorizes.
114129

[slidekellyslide]

So this guy was once a dear friend of yours...enough so that he gave you the tasteless gift of a piece of the WTC...what happened? What's the whole story here?

[HRBAKER]

There sure is a lot of drama in the autograph business.

[bender07]

There sure is a lot of drama in the autograph business.

Centered around a handful guys that can't let. It. Go.

[Runscott]

Who is Michael Frost? :confused:

[RichardSimon]

Who is Michael Frost? :confused:

He is PAAS.

[HRBAKER]

He is PAAS.

He dyes Easter Eggs?

[dgo71]

Who is Michael Frost? :confused:

There sure is a lot of drama in the autograph business.

I'm glad it's not just me.

[mighty bombjack]

I'm glad it's not just me.

No, it is not just you.

I like this site because it has a great deal of knowledge and a constant flow of nice and would-be nice autographs being posted for discussion. These other sites that have been banded about here tend to be more about trashing people than about the hobby. There has certainly been some teenage drama queen-like bickering on these here boards, but it has almost always been back and forth. The few times I have been to these other garbage sites, they are filled with posts trashing other autograph people (who are not on those boards) with epithets and threatened lawsuits. I can't stand that crap and won't return to those sites.

Mr. Frost, I don't know you, but I would ask that you don't attempt to turn this board into your own place to trash people are are not present. I'm sorry if you're being trashed on other sites, but we don't need it here.

[Runscott]

He dyes Easter Eggs?

HAHAHA - I was thinking the same thing!

Billy Ripken's Easter egg basket:

[thecatspajamas]

HAHAHA - I was thinking the same thing!

Billy Ripken's Easter egg basket:

Oh man, I am SO glad I was not drinking anything when I saw that! :p

[Michael Frost]

You guys are correct, there is no room for trash talking unless it relates to autographs and forgeries which in this case it does. It also thought it would be important that it is known who is behind and in control of some of the autograph websites in the hobby.
Both Steve Koschal and Todd Mueller were behind the site Autographalert. After a lawsuit this site with all its false actuations and personal attacks was closed down and removed. The new pro forger and anti autograph authentication site is now called Autographnewslive. Todd Mueller is the owner of Todd Mueller autographs and auctions, one of the top sellers of autographs in the country. One only has to Google his name or look at his weekly inventory and many questions may come to mind. This two are now the experts on a new site that I believe many here are aware of named Autographplanet.
There is a lot of problems in this industry, the forgeries and negativity is destroying the hobby. More and more people are running from the hobby and everyday I hear of someone saying I am done collecting autographs. I thought it would be time to try and restore the autograph collecting hobby and make it not only safe but fun again.
I have been in this business for 35 + years and I have a lot of inside knowledge of what is going on and who the players are in this industry as well as the autograph underground. I am sorry and I understand that this looks to be a personal vendetta ,but many industry insider know it goes much further then that.

[Scott Garner]

HAHAHA - I was thinking the same thing!

Billy Ripken's Easter egg basket:

Scott,
That is one of the funniest posts EVER! HAHAHA!

[Runscott]

Can you imagine what your mother would have done to you if you had ever written something like that on one of your eggs?

I thought I was a smart-assed kid, but there was so much more unrealized potential.

[Sean1125]

I was able to produce the two cowards out of hiding this week by using myself as a pawn.
As you can see if you wish to visit the soon to be removed website both Stephen Koschal and Todd Mueller are involved with ANL. With nowhere left to hide both Koschal and Mueller have come out fighting. Using there known scare tactics of lies, deceit, twist and turns and misleading propaganda. Their signature embellished personal attacks and attacks on family member are all present and read to me as a fingerprint. The methods are not difficult to authenticate as we have seen it used many times before on Steve Cyrkin, Roger Epperson, JSA, R&R and anyone else that may question their business tactics.
We are dealing with one coward named Todd Mueller , who lives day by day in fear of being exposed and the fear of any attacks and or being reprimanded by Stephen Koschal. Then you have Stephen Koschal whom many call a coward but I know he has no fear and nothing to live for. Koschal will lie, cheat, manipulator, and a use a friend or associates all in an afford to hide his business, his money and his past. He is not a coward and I would consider him vicious and dangerous. He is now a lot older, and has lost almost everything he ones had except Todd Mueller and a older woman that he is using for his daily living. With the closing down of his brain child and his voice Autograph Alert, a website that I had insisted for years he close down he has been left a disparate man. He is now calling me a Rat yet asking that questions be answered.??
For those not familiar with Stephen Koschal her is just a piece of The Past.

Stephen Koschal, has been called "The Creepiest Man in the Memorabilia Industry," He's been accused in trade publications and watchdog websites of forging the signatures of Geronimo, Elvis Presley, the NASA Apollo 11 crew, Walt Disney, and Martin Luther King Jr.
Koschal's enemies in the industry have even published a 2003 New Jersey restraining order his mother filed against him. He acknowledges he was "harassing" Mom, trying to recover a collection of bone fragments from each of the Catholic Church's 365 saints--"worth more than $1 million,"
Stephen Koschal who claims to be an autograph expert –. In particular, the Court found that Koschal was “not qualified to render an opinion on anything having to do with autographs.”
Make your "donations" for Haiti out to Stephen Koschal! Sad but I did.
"We know from all the emails we have received from our readers over the last five years that they have a big heart. Now is the time to open your hearts and donate money to help those in desperate need in Haiti." (Another Koschal business opportunity.)

Koschal takes a piece of a Titanic life boat. He may not have known it then??, but couldn't miss the fact now, that the piece he removed was actually from the 1953 movie prop. The actual life boat from the Titanic is unknown.
It is estimated that Steven Koschal has sold hundreds of these Titanic "relics".
The grave dirt I will discuss later because I am a witness to that process by Koschal.

Autographalert.com- Taken down off the Internet;
The "anonymous" blog site, founded by Stephen Koschal and Todd Mueller in 2005, was reportedly established to counteract the successes of the leading third party authenticators, PSA/DNA and then JSA. But Koschal soon started using it to carry out personal vendettas against a hit list of autograph dealers, organizations and publications, including Autograph Magazine. Shut down as part of a lawsuit against Koschal.
Stephen Koschal's new threat of family attacks and revenge using autograph News Live (ANL), is now using a factious business card or mine that he begged me for 15 years ago. He is claiming I lost my home and my family is going behind my back ,it is important from me to share a small taste of what Koschal is up to know and what you the hobby is and has been dealing with.
Here is a Steve Koschal business card and pieces of the World Trade Center that he has in his possession and is now pedaling privately.

114128



Here is Koschal's 2nd side business, not only does he use these Disabled Persons Parking Permits, but being involved with a RN he has told me he has access and is also peddling these.
I have both these pieces of evidence in hand I am prepared to release them to authorizes.
114129.

[Leon]

You guys are correct, there is no room for trash talking unless it relates to autographs and forgeries which in this case it does. It also thought it would be important that it is known who is behind and in control of some of the autograph websites in the hobby.
Both Steve Koschal and Todd Mueller were behind the site Autographalert. After a lawsuit this site with all its false actuations and personal attacks was closed down and removed. The new pro forger and anti autograph authentication site is now called Autographnewslive. Todd Mueller is the owner of Todd Mueller autographs and auctions, one of the top sellers of autographs in the country. One only has to Google his name or look at his weekly inventory and many questions may come to mind. This two are now the experts on a new site that I believe many here are aware of named Autographplanet.
There is a lot of problems in this industry, the forgeries and negativity is destroying the hobby. More and more people are running from the hobby and everyday I hear of someone saying I am done collecting autographs. I thought it would be time to try and restore the autograph collecting hobby and make it not only safe but fun again.
I have been in this business for 35 + years and I have a lot of inside knowledge of what is going on and who the players are in this industry as well as the autograph underground. I am sorry and I understand that this looks to be a personal vendetta ,but many industry insider know it goes much further then that.

Hi Michael,
While I am not in the autograph business or hobby I understand your reasoning, It is somewhat like mine is on the card side. I want to let everyone know of issues in the hobby and will post about them. But more importantly I try to start threads that are positive, upbeat and promote positive things about the hobby. Maybe you could also post some threads about some of your positive experiences, or anything positive, about your hobby? That way you will truly be promoting for the enjoyment of collectors (not that these type threads aren't, but you know what I mean.) I am sure many of our members would like to hear some of the stories you have amassed in the 35 yrs you have been doing it. take care and carry on.....

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Just seeing that WTC piece, and people (supposdely him) selling them, absolutely disgusts me. I have a 'souvenir' of the Berlin Wall when I went to Germany, but that had significant historical importance. I'm not downplaying the impact of the WTC, but it's disturbing seeing people making a profit off of that for such a tragic event. Where is the plane shrapnel?

[HOF Auto Rookies]

.

Touche

[slidekellyslide]

Just seeing that WTC piece, and people (supposdely him) selling them, absolutely disgusts me. I have a 'souvenir' of the Berlin Wall when I went to Germany, but that had significant historical importance. I'm not downplaying the impact of the WTC, but it's disturbing seeing people making a profit off of that for such a tragic event. Where is the plane shrapnel?


Leland's sold parts from the airplane that Clemente died in.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2076635

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Leland's sold parts from the airplane that Clemente died in.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2076635

Wow, thanks for that link. My thoughts exactly were the same as the headling, disgusting.

[Fuddjcal]

You guys are correct, there is no room for trash talking unless it relates to autographs and forgeries which in this case it does. It also thought it would be important that it is known who is behind and in control of some of the autograph websites in the hobby.
Both Steve Koschal and Todd Mueller were behind the site Autographalert. After a lawsuit this site with all its false actuations and personal attacks was closed down and removed. The new pro forger and anti autograph authentication site is now called Autographnewslive. Todd Mueller is the owner of Todd Mueller autographs and auctions, one of the top sellers of autographs in the country. One only has to Google his name or look at his weekly inventory and many questions may come to mind. This two are now the experts on a new site that I believe many here are aware of named Autographplanet.
There is a lot of problems in this industry, the forgeries and negativity is destroying the hobby. More and more people are running from the hobby and everyday I hear of someone saying I am done collecting autographs. I thought it would be time to try and restore the autograph collecting hobby and make it not only safe but fun again.
I have been in this business for 35 + years and I have a lot of inside knowledge of what is going on and who the players are in this industry as well as the autograph underground. I am sorry and I understand that this looks to be a personal vendetta ,but many industry insider know it goes much further then that.

yes it does and I applaud you posting the truth of these matters here, one of the only legitimate autograph sites on the net. The pirates must be held accountable. You're right about one thing... collectors do leave because of this in breed fighting and jockeying for position. Between the aggravating jerk offs at AP and AML and E-bay not taking down obvious forgeries, please tell me why anyone with a sliver of a brain would continue to collect anything in this hobby? I wish you all the best Mike in your fight against these butt wads.

[Michael Frost]

Chuck
I thank you for the support, but it seems as the majority has been turned off or not interested in the infighting or as you have stated 'Jockeying for Position". I understand the feelings but before we can go to the positive part of the autograph collecting hobby, I felt an importance to go back and reveal the past and the major players that have been controlling the websites and trying to control the autograph industry.
These 2 frauds and cowards have been destroying the reputation of many creditable and important members of the autograph and autograph authentication industry. In the past many have not had the strength, inside knowledge, and power to expose the truth about the ongoing corruption, lies and misleading broadcastings to autograph collectors worldwide. This is especially important for new collectors who have no idea what to believe. I have a lot to share, a lot to expose and a lot to prove with facts, but it seems as if this will have to wait until a day in court.
I know sometimes this takes years and over those years we will be losing 1000;s of more collectors from the autograph hobby. There are people that are being burnt by the fraud and dark part of the industry daily.
Making matters even worse, a new website named Autographplanet as been started that I believed was going to be creditable and would share knowledge to the autograph collectors. It has been brought to my attention that both Stephen Koschal and Todd Mueller are on their list of trusted experts. Todd Mueller is also the key advertiser and banner promoted by this new site.

[Leon]

Hi Michael
I don't think we want to completely dissuade what you are doing. I don't. As one of the main moderators, I think you should post anything you want to. You have your name by your posts so fire away. However, I hope you will also post some positive experiences, if not soon, then eventually. As I have said, I don't collect autographs so I will let these guys voice their opinions. Happy collecting.... best regards

[ibuysportsephemera]

Hi Michael,

I think that if you continue to post the same thing over and over...or all of your posts relate to your negative experiences, many people will start to be turned off. IMO this is exactly what happened with Travis. At first people supported what he posted or agreed with him. But eventually he was like the boy who cried wolf...posting the same thing about the TPA over and over and people just got tired of him.

Just my 2¢.

Jeff

[RichardSimon]

hi michael,

i think that if you continue to post the same thing over and over...or all of your posts relate to your negative experiences, many people will start to be turned off. Imo this is exactly what happened with travis. At first people supported what he posted or agreed with him. But eventually he was like the boy who cried wolf...posting the same thing about the tpa over and over and people just got tired of him.

Just my 2¢.

Jeff

+100%

[Michael Frost]

+100%
I agree and understand but I have many positive experiences and knowledge that I do wish to share. I have also said before that in my 35+ years in this industry that I have found Richard Simon to be the most honorably and knowledgeable people I have ever dealt with. I am glad to find you here on Net 54 and I know you feel share a lot of my feeling about saving the industry. My point is still everyday we hear about the Florida forgeries of Joe Di Maggio, Mickey Mantle, Ted Williams and Muhammad Ali and after a few years I think a big dent has been made as far as public knowledge. We also hear about Couches Corner day in and day out, but not many had the courage or guts to come out directly against both Todd Mueller and Stephen Koschal.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I, too, have been a target of Mueller and that dirtbag in "Florida."

The problem with Mueller is that he hates anyone exposing crap that he's sold, or a forgery that comes with his COA.

Mueller will make up the wildest stories to defend a forgery that he's sold. And if anyone chooses to expose his garbage, he will attack them.

That's what Mueller does. And then he hides behind the "church."

That's Mueller.

A recent thread on Net54 showed a Sandy Koufax secretarial listed on Mueller's auction site. It's a commonly known Koufax secretarial. Mueller's been involved with autographs for 35 years and he still doesn't know a common Koufax secretarial!!! Seriously, Mueller? What's your "story" behind the Koufax, Mueller? I'll look for it on "The Planet" or "ANL."

114180

[Michael Frost]

I, too, have been a target of Mueller and that dirtbag in "Florida."

The problem with Mueller is that he hates anyone exposing crap that he's sold, or a forgery that comes with his COA.

Mueller will make up the wildest stories to defend a forgery that he's sold. And if anyone chooses to expose his garbage, he will attack them.

That's what Mueller does. And then he hides behind the "church."

That's Mueller.

A recent thread on Net54 showed a Sandy Koufax secretarial listed on Mueller's auction site. It's a commonly known Koufax secretarial. Mueller's been involved with autographs for 35 years and he still doesn't know a common Koufax secretarial!!! Seriously, Mueller? What's your "story" behind the Koufax, Mueller? I'll look for it on "The Planet" or "ANL."

114180

Chris,
If you only knew.. You are very knowledgeable when it comes to sports but if you and the others had any idea what he is doing with celebrities and Rock & Roll autographs you would thin Coaches Corner was in Rome.

[slidekellyslide]

I'm still trying to figure out what went wrong between this Koschal fellow and Michael Frost. It's obvious that at one time they were friends....Anyone want to give the Cliffs Notes version?

[joed25]

He is PAAS.

Michael- you work with PAAS authenticators ?

[Big Dave]

Mr. Koschal and Mr. Frost started PAAS and were the authenticators.

[Michael Frost]

I'm still trying to figure out what went wrong between this Koschal fellow and Michael Frost. It's obvious that at one time they were friends....Anyone want to give the Cliffs Notes version?

I was a partner with Stephen Koschal, I would have to share a score book to explain the issues that he has caused to me and his other partners over the past 20 years. Todd Mueller is someone I have never met nor to I personal know. I have done some autograph authentication work for is company Todd Mueller Autographs in the past and I have discovered several issues with his signed items.
Most of the problems with Mueller's material was brought to my attention years ago by Steve Koschal when he was involved in autograph authentication and the International Autograph Collectors Club.
Now it seems Stephen Koschal with no were left to be excepted has team up with Todd Mueller on websites and in business.
"Cliffs Notes Version"

[slidekellyslide]

I was a partner with Stephen Koschal, I would have to share a score book to explain the issues that he has caused to me and his other partners over the past 20 years. Todd Mueller is someone I have never met nor to I personal know. I have done some autograph authentication work for is company Todd Mueller Autographs in the past and I have discovered several issues with his signed items.
Most of the problems with Mueller's material was brought to my attention years ago by Steve Koschal when he was involved in autograph authentication and the International Autograph Collectors Club.
Now it seems Stephen Koschal with no were left to be excepted has team up with Todd Mueller on websites and in business.
"Cliffs Notes Version"

Thanks.

[Michael Frost]

Thanks.
OK

[Michael Frost]

Mr. Koschal and Mr. Frost started PAAS and were the authenticators.


That would be Richard Simon, Stephen Koschal and myself with Victor from American Memorabilia in Las Vegas.

[Leon]

T.... Victor from American Memorabilia in Las Vegas.

Now there's an interesting fella.

[Michael Frost]

Now there's an interesting fella.
'The most interesting man in the world" But he is a fine person and I could not say one thing negative in all the years I know him except he does not drive.

[Duluth Eskimo]

'The most interesting man in the world" But he is a fine person and I could not say one thing negative in all the years I know him except he does not drive.

I bet some of his consignors may disagree.

[Michael Frost]

I bet some of his consignors may disagree. I am speaking about Richard Simon.. I do not think he would have any consignors???

[Leon]

I am speaking about Richard Simon.. I do not think he would have any consignors???

Actually, you were speaking of Victor M., I believe.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Actually, you were speaking of Victor M., I believe.

Yes, Victor M.

[Michael Frost]

Actually, you were speaking of Victor M., I believe.
I am sorry for the misunderstanding I was talking about Mr. Simon.
Victor M. is another story and may be even more interesting then Richard (sorry R.S. ) but I do happen to like both Victor & Keita.

[Rich Klein]

I tell you this board is now far better than the card side board. I would love to hear the tales of Victor M.

Rich

[Runscott]

I tell you this board is now far better than the card side board. I would love to hear the tales of Victor M.

Rich

Agreed. Also good to see this thread wrapping up with a few complements of others in the hobby - always refreshing and kills any chance of Michael's posts being compared to Travis'.

[HRBAKER]

I tell you this board is now far better than the card side board. I would love to hear the tales of Victor M.

Rich

Well that's certainly a matter of opinion I think.

[thetruthisoutthere]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/zimmermann/8218791-452/at-memorabilia-auction-houses-its-seller-beware.html

[HRBAKER]

http://www.suntimes.com/news/zimmermann/8218791-452/at-memorabilia-auction-houses-its-seller-beware.html

The writer is a master of understatement:


In working on your problem, the Fixer found numerous tales in the memorabilia industry of forged signatures, questionable authentications and unpaid debts. This is an industry in need of watchdogs. There’s an old journalism saying that if your mother says she loves you, check it out. That goes double for anyone selling a Babe Ruth autograph.

[Big Dave]

Victor has been known for last 15 years as a pos crook. Any one that has been in this business for awhile knows that AMI was nothing but a ponzi scam. Victor and Kieta have lived very well on the money owed their consignors. They used money from new consigments sold to pay toward older consignors. Always wondered why people kept consigning to that place when it was well known over a decade ago how they operated. They should have been in jail a long time ago.

[Duluth Eskimo]

I always wondered the same thing. When I used to set up at shows, my booth at the Sun Times show was about 50 feet from the American Memorabilia booth. Every show I would see people wander in and make their way over to Victor's booth. I also used to see people I somewhat respected speaking to him. I would always think, what in the hell are they doing??? The guy is a crook. Why would people even speak to this guy? Then I would see some poor schlep showing him quality game worn (real no less) merchandise for consignment. It was mind boggling. Anyways, enough said.

One other thing. Am I the only one who think Mr Frost's post is a little patronizing? It seems like he thinks this is day one in the autograph community for some. I would consider this a pretty advanced crowd to come in to with this type of post. Maybe I am just blowing it out of proportion. Again, enough said.

[thetruthisoutthere]

One other thing. Am I the only one who think Mr Frost's post is a little patronizing?

Nope.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I don't want everyone thinking that Mr. Frost is a white knight looking to save the hobby.

[RichardSimon]

Victor Moreno is a piece of work, no doubt about it.
The negative stories about AMI are all over the internet. It certainly appears that they have left many consignors holding the bag.
When PAAS was formed Victor was a part of it but certainly not in an authenticating way, I wanted to make that very clear.
Three of us authenticated for the AMI catalog ,and constantly battled with Victor and Kieta, until we could establish our independence about authentication without them trying to influence us.
The idea eventually emerged that we should set up a TPA company and Victor was going to handle the advertising and the finances for the advertising.
That advertising effort was sorely lacking and was one of the factors causing PAAS and AMI to split up.
The authenticating company stayed together for a while and for a variety of reasons I decided to leave PAAS after a few months.
Mike Frost and Steve Koschal kept PAAS together for a period of time, I don't really remember how long, but eventually as you see they had a falling out.

[RichardSimon]

I am sorry for the misunderstanding I was talking about Mr. Simon.
Victor M. is another story and may be even more interesting then Richard (sorry R.S. ) but I do happen to like both Victor & Keita.

No apology necessary it was just a misunderstanding on your part Mike.
And Victor M is certainly another story as most here seem to already know.
Interesting is an unusual word to describe him. I don't think it is the word that I would use though.

[Michael Frost]

Victor Moreno is a piece of work, no doubt about it.
The negative stories about AMI are all over the internet. It certainly appears that they have left many consignors holding the bag.
When PAAS was formed Victor was a part of it but certainly not in an authenticating way, I wanted to make that very clear.
Three of us authenticated for the AMI catalog ,and constantly battled with Victor and Kieta, until we could establish our independence about authentication without them trying to influence us.
The idea eventually emerged that we should set up a TPA company and Victor was going to handle the advertising and the finances for the advertising.
That advertising effort was sorely lacking and was one of the factors causing PAAS and AMI to split up.
The authenticating company stayed together for a while and for a variety of reasons I decided to leave PAAS after a few months.
Mike Frost and Steve Koschal kept PAAS together for a period of time, I don't really remember how long, but eventually as you see they had a falling out.
I have not tried to make it sound as if Victor was an authenticator with P.A.A.S.
I have not done any authentication for them in years and I do not follow all the negative blogs about American Memorabilia Auctions. I am sure there are some truths as well as many misleading stories as this industry is well known for.. All I was saying was I like Victor and I think you would agree he always treated us fair when he brought us out to Vegas.

[RichardSimon]

I will agree he treated us fairly when we went to Vegas.
Aside from that Mike I think we disagree about him.

[shelly]

Mike, you might have a beef with your ex partner but I have one with you. You authenticated more bad autographs than I think ACE . I know that the other two are true pieces of work and are out to hurt anyone they dont like. I just cant feel sorry for what is happening to you.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Mike, you might have a beef with your ex partner but I have one with you. You authenticated more bad autographs than I think ACE . I know that the other two are true pieces of work and are out to hurt anyone they dont like. I just cant feel sorry for what is happening to you.

Like this one, Shelly:

114427

[Michael Frost]

Like this one, Shelly:

114427
Now that is a joke, a fake Mickey Mantle on a fake P.A.A.S. cert. I see who and what I am dealing with here.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Now that is a joke, a fake Mickey Mantle on a fake P.A.A.S. cert. I see who and what I am dealing with here.

So, Mike, you're saying that isn't yours?

Do you recognize this one:

114428

[David Atkatz]

Now that is a joke, a fake Mickey Mantle on a fake P.A.A.S. cert. I see who and what I am dealing with here.If someone were to fake a CoA, why would they forge a worthless PAAS cert? Wouldn't they be better off faking a PSA or JSA certificate?

[joed25]

Mike - I have no idea who you are and who all these people you are talking about are. And I don't really care much. But I always thought PAAS was a scam like GAI. Certifying more fakes than real. So if you have anything to do with PAAS you deserve whatever is coming to you and more. These "authenticators" and forensic examiners have done more damage to the hobby than anyone else IMO.

Jos..eph Dw.ek

[Big Dave]

Depends on what the purpose and/or reason is behind faking the COA.

This sounds like what people claim Mr. Mueller stated about some of his COAs. Perhaps Mr. Frost should not have started his finger pointing.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Please don't come on with your first post and now play the victim. If you want to explain some of what is out there, by all means go ahead. This is not a board where you can come on and gather support for your mission, but if you are honest and forthright I think people would be willing to listen.

[thetruthisoutthere]

This sounds like what people claim Mr. Mueller stated about some of his COAs. Perhaps Mr. Frost should not have started his finger pointing.

+1

[thetruthisoutthere]

Please don't come on with your first post and now play the victim. If you want to explain some of what is out there, by all means go ahead. This is not a board where you can come on and gather support for your mission, but if you are honest and forthright I think people would be willing to listen.

Absolutely!!!

You were side-by-side with Mueller and Koschal and now you have to live with that, Mr. Frost.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I see who and what I am dealing with here.

That's good, Mr. Frost. Understand that.

[Michael Frost]

Absolutely!!!

You were side-by-side with Mueller and Koschal and now you have to live with that, Mr. Frost.
You are correct and that hurt my credibility and caused me nothing but problems that are still being addressed. Mistakes yes I have made some and being involved with Mueller and Koschal were probably my biggest. Maybe it is time you look into a mirror and see who you are side by side with.
I did not come here to fight or discredit you and I am not a blogger, but I am also not the type to take my ball and run home. I was allowed to speak out on this website using my real name, phone number and I have nothing at all to hide from including any false accusations nor set up false certificates. I do not know many other autograph authenticators that could say the same.

[Big Dave]

Mr. Frost,

To your credit, you have come on here and have posted. But keep this in mind, if you are willing to accuse others, be prepared to defend accusations against you.

With that in mind, we welcome any discussions.

[Michael Frost]

Mr. Frost,

To your credit, you have come on here and have posted. But keep this in mind, if you are willing to accuse others, be prepared to defend accusations against you.

With that in mind, we welcome any discussions.
That is understood and thank you,

[Runscott]

That is understood and thank you,

Mike, 'Big Dave' is not a moderator.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Mike, 'Big Dave' is not a moderator.

No, but he did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...;)

[thetruthisoutthere]

If someone were to fake a CoA, why would they forge a worthless PAAS cert? Wouldn't they be better off faking a PSA or JSA certificate?

+1

[Big Dave]

Mr. Forrest

It was not implied, nor did Mr. Frost make any reference to someone being a moderator. Like you, I post what I feel may be helpful or just what I feel like saying.

Mr. Williams,

You are mistaken. I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

[thetruthisoutthere]

mr. Forrest

it was not implied, nor did mr. Frost make any reference to someone being a moderator. Like you, i post what i feel may be helpful or just what i feel like saying.

Mr. Williams,

you are mistaken. I did not sleep at a holiday inn last night.

lol.

[Big Dave]

Good to see you understand levity.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Good to see you understand levity.

Absolutely, Dave.

[Leon]

If we don't have a sense of humor this place/hobby could kill ya' :eek:

[frankbmd]

Mr. Forrest

It was not implied, nor did Mr. Frost make any reference to someone being a moderator. Like you, I post what I feel may be helpful or just what I feel like saying.

Mr. Williams,

You are mistaken. I did not sleep at a Holiday Inn last night.

So where did you sleep, Big Dave.:D

[HRBAKER]

So where did you sleep, Big Dave.:D

Obviously not with the fishes.

[r2678]

So, how does one tell the difference between a real and a fake PAAS certificate?

[Big Dave]

Well, I kind of did sleep with the fishes.....slept on a boat last night.

[Fuddjcal]

from my view, I think we are close to weeding out the whole story and Mike is a part of that.

I agree, the "fake cert trick" is a way to deflect. I find it hard to believe that the PAAS group didn't do very well with Mantle, even in the early stages. So, if you make a mistake, learn and move on. No one is very quick at admitting mistakes, hence the Stolen COA, The rock solid Providence story as long as Moby Dick & discredit the big guys, the little guys, everybody that can say "you're mistaken"....

I welcome the dialogue on the board with Mike trying to fill in some of the back story to this fractured group and see if there is a way to move on from all the negativity. I don't know if things will ever change for the better but I'm hopeful.

I get Mike's point in trying to plead his case on this legitimate forum especially since The Kumbaya Connection's one way slam on him (ANL). I would want a place to plead my case too. I say go for it Mike.

[Fuddjcal]

So, how does one tell the difference between a real and a fake PAAS certificate?

Great Question?

[Runscott]

Mr. Forrest

It was not implied, nor did Mr. Frost make any reference to someone being a moderator. Like you, I post what I feel may be helpful or just what I feel like saying.


Dave, you can call me 'Scott'. Yeah, you post whatever you feel like saying and I thought that since you generally feel like posting as if you are a moderator here, I'd let Mike know that that isn't the case.

[thetruthisoutthere]

from my view, I think we are close to weeding out the whole story and Mike is a part of that.

I agree, the "fake cert trick" is a way to deflect. I find it hard to believe that the PAAS group didn't do very well with Mantle, even in the early stages. So, if you make a mistake, learn and move on. No one is very quick at admitting mistakes, hence the Stolen COA, The rock solid Providence story as long as Moby Dick & discredit the big guys, the little guys, everybody that can say "you're mistaken"....

I welcome the dialogue on the board with Mike trying to fill in some of the back story to this fractured group and see if there is a way to move on from all the negativity. I don't know if things will ever change for the better but I'm hopeful.

I get Mike's point in trying to plead his case on this legitimate forum especially since The Kumbaya Connection's one way slam on him (ANL). I would want a place to plead my case too. I say go for it Mike.

Chuck, I agree with you for the most part.

I just didn't like Mike storming in here acting like an innocent victim.

He was a part of the ANL Group and part of that dark side.

I am all for him going after Mueller. I have as much disdain for Mueller as I do Chris Morales.

I've been a target of that group for a long time and any light Mike can shed on that group will be a positive for the hobby.

Only don't act like an innocent victim.

[Big Dave]

Mr. Forrest,

If I am not mistaken, you had blocked any posts that I make. Apparently you could not resist what I state or my style of writing, and thus felt the need to unblock me so that you may comment.

Would you be happier and my postings more acceptable to you if I were just to make snide, disparaging remarks such as you do?

[shelly]

Chuck, you can trust me on this. He authenticated more bad Mantles than anyone at that time. Morales beat him in the end.:mad:You can add Dimaggio and Williams as well.

[Lordstan]

So, how does one tell the difference between a real and a fake PAAS certificate?

A real PAAS has deep coloration all around the egg with even uptake. A fake one has splotches of color and is very uneven. Does that help?

[thenavarro]

How to tell a fake/valid COA 101

I'm just a rural, country Texan, but I think I can deduce the formula for this, and the same one seems to apply to a lot of authenticators, not just the Easter Egg place

1) if it's a cert that is subsequently found to have certed a "bad" item, it must be a fake cert, because of course they are better than that

2) if it's a cert that seems to be attached to a good item, then pride will be taken in the work, and it is a valid cert

Just what I've noticed over the years.

Mike

[thetruthisoutthere]

How to tell a fake/valid COA 101

I'm just a rural, country Texan, but I think I can deduce the formula for this, and the same one seems to apply to a lot of authenticators, not just the Easter Egg place

1) if it's a cert that is subsequently found to have certed a "bad" item, it must be a fake cert, because of course they are better than that

2) if it's a cert that seems to be attached to a good item, then pride will be taken in the work, and it is a valid cert

Just what I've noticed over the years.

Mike

Bingo!!!

[r2678]

A real PAAS has deep coloration all around the egg with even uptake. A fake one has splotches of color and is very uneven. Does that help?

Thanks. Just trying to learn because I come across them on occasion.

[shelly]

Why would you fake a cert if it does not add to the value of the item.:confused:

[Lordstan]

Why would you fake a cert if it does not add to the value of the item.:confused:

Because they are morons!

[Michael Frost]

So, how does one tell the difference between a real and a fake PAAS certificate?
The best thing is always to go to or website www.paasaa.com and use the P.A.A.S. database. I also except e-mails and phone calls. Unlike many autograph authenticators in this hobby, I am available to talk and discuss issues with my customers or members of the hobby. There are many telltale signs of the fake P.A.A.S. certificates, but by explaining them all on the internet will only be helping the culprits that have been producing this and other certificates.
The fraud and corrupt part of the autograph industry have been using my name, my certificates, my credentials for years to add some credibility to there scams.This and the fakes COA's have been reported and alerts have been sent out in the past. The phony Certificates have been discussed on other websites and also illustrated before.
I was most probably the closest person in the autograph industry to Mickey Mantle for over 10 years. I would work directly with Mickey Mantle and Greer Johnson with autograph appearances and setting up private autograph signings and marketing. I was lucky enough to be one of the few that were ever invited into the inner circle and this has always caused much jealousy and envy among certain members of the industry.
One person that I know that started much of the misleading rumors and accusations was the famous Tony P. I have heard most of this trash for years and Tony has even told me many of the lies including that Mickey Mantle told him that I had permission to sign for him. I now see that Shelly has joined the anti P.A.A.S. fan club, this is somebody I have never heard of or dealt with but I must say that "birds of a feather".
Enough with all the hate, if anybody needs to talk to me please pick up a phone or e-mail me. The truth is only a phone call away.

[David Atkatz]

I have been collecting vintage autographs and vintage NY Yankee material for almost fifty years. I think I know a little bit about "the hobby."
And one thing I do know is that a P.A.A.S. certificate is absolutely worthless. I don't believe anyone would bother to fake one.

[Michael Frost]

I have been collecting vintage autographs and vintage NY Yankee material for almost fifty years. I think I know a little bit about "the hobby."
And one thing I do know is that a P.A.A.S. certificate is absolutely worthless. I don't believe anyone would bother to fake one.
David, I am sorry but I think you are wrong, my COA's along with JSA, PSA, GA, Scoreboard, Stacks of Plaques, Mounted Memories have been faked for years. I have uncovered with some help 100's of fake certs attached to forgeries.

[thetruthisoutthere]

David, I am sorry but I think you are wrong, my COA's along with JSA, PSA, GA, Scoreboard, Stacks of Plaques, Mounted Memories have been faked for years. I have uncovered with some help 100's of fake certs attached to forgeries.

Geez, Mike, you roll in here like gangbusters and then you claim (sounding like Todd Mueller) that every forgery with your COA must be an altered or fake PAAS COA.

C'mon, Mike.

Then you play the "Anti-PAAS" game.

You're not an innocent victim here.



When I get home tonight, I will post another autograph with a PAAS COA and you can tell us if the COA has been altered or "faked."

[joed25]

This whole post is a joke.


Jos..eph Dw.ek

[sago]

http://www.stephenkoschal.com/testimonials.html

Are these quotes taken out of context, made up, very old, or something else?

"I, Michael Frost President and lead authenticator of P.A.A.S. Professional Autograph Authentication Services have known Stephen Koschal for over 20 years. I am proud to have worked with Stephen Koschal for many of those years on autograph studies and autograph authentication. I would consider him as the top autograph expert in the world today. Stephen Koschal's library of autograph exemplars is second to none and I have had the pleasure of using and viewing his autograph exemplar library. Stephen Koschal has written many books and 100's of articles on autograph collecting and autograph reviews and authentication. Stephen Koschal is one of my teachers and mentors when it comes to autograph studies and authentication. I have spent 100's of hours working with Stephen Koschal as well as reviewing his authentication work. I have always found him to be very professional and one of the most honest people I ever met within the autograph industry. In all the years I have known Stephen Koschal and worked with him I can not recall a single item ever being returned or questioned on the basis of authentication.".................................................. .................................................. ......Mike Frost, Florida


"your experience always brings a smile to my face...." Richard Simon, Sports Autograph Expert/Authenticator

[Big Dave]

Mr. Frost's bio if you are interested.

http://www.paasautographs.com/credentials.html

[RichardSimon]

http://www.stephenkoschal.com/testimonials.html

Are these quotes taken out of context, made up, very old, or something else?

"I, Michael Frost President and lead authenticator of P.A.A.S. Professional Autograph Authentication Services have known Stephen Koschal for over 20 years. I am proud to have worked with Stephen Koschal for many of those years on autograph studies and autograph authentication. I would consider him as the top autograph expert in the world today. Stephen Koschal's library of autograph exemplars is second to none and I have had the pleasure of using and viewing his autograph exemplar library. Stephen Koschal has written many books and 100's of articles on autograph collecting and autograph reviews and authentication. Stephen Koschal is one of my teachers and mentors when it comes to autograph studies and authentication. I have spent 100's of hours working with Stephen Koschal as well as reviewing his authentication work. I have always found him to be very professional and one of the most honest people I ever met within the autograph industry. In all the years I have known Stephen Koschal and worked with him I can not recall a single item ever being returned or questioned on the basis of authentication.".................................................. .................................................. ......Mike Frost, Florida


"your experience always brings a smile to my face...." Richard Simon, Sports Autograph Expert/Authenticator


Stephen has a vast knowledge in certain fields of autographs including presidents, which I do collect. It is possible that I was thanking him for examining a presidential autograph for me that I was considering as a purchase and made such a comment. I don't specifically recall the comment but it is something I might have said in a thank you to him.

[Michael Frost]

Geez, Mike, you roll in here like gangbusters and then you claim (sounding like Todd Mueller) that every forgery with your COA must be an altered or fake PAAS COA.

C'mon, Mike.

Then you play the "Anti-PAAS" game.

You're not an innocent victim here.



When I get home tonight, I will post another autograph with a PAAS COA and you can tell us if the COA has been altered or "faked."
I am not coming in like gangbusters and I am not going to steal any of your glory nor trying take your place as the Net54 Mantle expert. I am sure you probably can find a C.O.A. or two that will be up for debate or deputed. I am far from perfect but I do not believe that any other authentication company out there today does a better or more precise examination. Please remember we authenticate over 1000 pieces a month and 100's of On-line examinations per week. When you find one or 2 items the you may feel uncomfortable with or you may have a difference in opinion with that is a far cry from saying that almost everything P.A.A.S. authenticate is bad. This is just forgers propaganda or a competitor with an agenda. I see they say the same thing on many forger friendly websites said about you, JSA and PSA.

Here are what the rest of the industry says about P.A.A.S.
http://www.paasautographs.com/testimonials.html


Ebay Member id - pro-authentication (1301) 100%

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This member's positive Feedback percentage

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[shelly]

Mike, I depend on the knowledge of a few people when it come to autographs. You would never be one of them. If someone did forge your cert I am sure it was for the intention to insult you. There would be no monetary reason to do it. You went to bed with dogs and woke up with fleas. Now you want to get rid of them. No so easy to do.

[Big Dave]

Shelly....seriously?

You should be one of the last people on here casting stones against redemption, or trying to better one's public persona. Mr. Frost may or may not have authenticated some questionable items, but you personally sold a lot of forgeries that you knew for a fact were forgeries.

[Leon]

Mike, I depend on the knowledge of a few people when it come to autographs. You would never be one of them. If someone did forge your cert I am sure it was for the intention to insult you. There would be no monetary reason to do it. You went to bed with dogs and woke up with fleas. Now you want to get rid of them. No so easy to do.

So what is a guy that has made mistakes supposed to do (Not saying Mike did, I don't know)? Can they not ever come clean and get another chance by doing the right things? Or does it just take time?

[ibuysportsephemera]

Shelly....seriously?

You should be one of the last people on here casting stones against redemption, or trying to better one's public persona. Mr. Frost may or may not have authenticated some questionable items, but you personally sold a lot of forgeries that you knew for a fact were forgeries.

+100....Although I am somewhat skeptical of Mr. Frost's past...I do respect that he has maintained his composure in this thread and has not turned it into a circus.

Jeff

[slidekellyslide]

Good guys and bad guys are hard to discern in the autograph hobby...someone needs to keep a scorecard.

[joed25]

So what is a guy that has made mistakes supposed to do (Not saying Mike did, I don't know)? Can they not ever come clean and get another chance by doing the right things? Or does it just take time?

Isn't he still "authenticating" lol. Everyone knows PAAS is cr*p. Please stop this nonsense. It is EXTREMELY insulting.

[shelly]

Shelly....seriously?

You should be one of the last people on here casting stones against redemption, or trying to better one's public persona. Mr. Frost may or may not have authenticated some questionable items, but you personally sold a lot of forgeries that you knew for a fact were forgeries.

Dave it took me fourteen years to gain respect from most people .. It does not happen overnight. I dont have to be forgiving you dont seem to be. I stated what I thought Of Mike. That is how I feel. It gets a little bit discusting that after fourteen years the only thing that you can attack me with is something that I have admited to and tried my hardest to make up for. I have earned my right to be here and you can stick it if your not happy with it.Same goes for anyone else that feels like Jeff and Dave. Dave like I said I am intitled to my opinion you yours and you are not going to take that from me insults or not.

[shelly]

So what is a guy that has made mistakes supposed to do (Not saying Mike did, I don't know)? Can they not ever come clean and get another chance by doing the right things? Or does it just take time?
Yes Leon of course he does but not in a day. It takes time.:)

[Michael Frost]

Dave it took me fourteen years to gain respect from most people .. It does not happen overnight. I dont have to be forgiving you dont seem to be. I stated what I thought Of Mike. That is how I feel. It gets a little bit discusting that after fourteen years the only thing that you can attack me with is something that I have admited to and tried my hardest to make up for. I have earned my right to be here and you can stick it if your not happy with it.Same goes for anyone else that feels like Jeff and Dave. Dave like I said I am intitled to my opinion you yours and you are not going to take that from me insults or not.

I am not here to fight or debate with people who in reality are all on the same side. The insults and accusations can go on forever but as you already know the forgeries eat these things up. All we are doing is giving them ammunition to use against honest dealers and honest autograph authenticators.
I have seen it used and happen over and over again. As we fight among ourselves there are 1000's of Mickey Mantle's, Muhammad Ali's Joe DiMaggio's, Beatles, Madonna's etc. being sold . If you do not need any help here to try to help expose and rid the Internet and auction sites of this garbage that is fine. This infighting and the knocking of JSA, PSA, PAAS and even Global does nothing more then add fire power to the forgers fight. I am not looking for and attention, any promotion, any glory just thought I was coming here to help.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Dave it took me fourteen years to gain respect from most people .. It does not happen overnight. I dont have to be forgiving you dont seem to be. I stated what I thought Of Mike. That is how I feel. It gets a little bit discusting that after fourteen years the only thing that you can attack me with is something that I have admited to and tried my hardest to make up for. I have earned my right to be here and you can stick it if your not happy with it.Same goes for anyone else that feels like Jeff and Dave. Dave like I said I am intitled to my opinion you yours and you are not going to take that from me insults or not.

Really Shelly, I don't know how you can tell me to stick it. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. BUT, I am surprised that you find it disgusting when someone brings your past up yet it is in the context of you questioning Mr. Frost's (who I have never heard of before this thread) past without provocation. This doesn't make sense to me.

Jeff

[joed25]

I am not here to fight or debate with people who in reality are all on the same side. The insults and accusations can go on forever but as you already know the forgeries eat these things up. All we are doing is giving them ammunition to use against honest dealers and honest autograph authenticators.
I have seen it used and happen over and over again. As we fight among ourselves there are 1000's of Mickey Mantle's, Muhammad Ali's Joe DiMaggio's, Beatles, Madonna's etc. being sold . If you do not need any help here to try to help expose and rid the Internet and auction sites of this garbage that is fine. This infighting and the knocking of JSA, PSA, PAAS and even Global does nothing more then add fire power to the forgers fight. I am not looking for and attention, any promotion, any glory just thought I was coming here to help.
Are you equating PASS and Global to PSA and JSA???

[shelly]

[QUOTE=ibuysportsephemera;1185855]Really Shelly, I don't know how you can tell me to stick it. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. BUT, I am surprised that you find it disgusting when someone brings your past up yet it is in the context of you questioning Mr. Frost's (who I have never heard of before this thread) past without provocation. This doesn't make sense to me.

Jeff[/QUOTe
You might not of heard about him but I have for a lot of years. If you can only bring up my past then you dont know me either. I am talking about the present with Mr. Frost. Untill they turned on him he was there best friend . My past is mine and I have to live with it which I have done. Mr Frost has to live with what he has done.
I don't find it disguting that you bring up my past. I find it disgusting that you have to use it in an agruement. I said the truth the past has nothing to do with that.

[Runscott]

This infighting and the knocking of JSA, PSA, PAAS and even Global does nothing more then add fire power to the forgers fight.

That's a really nutty statement.


I am not looking for and attention, any promotion, any glory just thought I was coming here to help.

It sounded like you came here to air a bunch of dirty laundry because you felt like you had personally gotten a bad deal from these guys. That's fine, but I doubt it's helping anyone here.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Shelly....seriously?

You should be one of the last people on here casting stones against redemption, or trying to better one's public persona. Mr. Frost may or may not have authenticated some questionable items, but you personally sold a lot of forgeries that you knew for a fact were forgeries.

I have a ton of respect for Shelly, Dave.

He paid a heavy price for what he did. Not only that, but Shelly has never never stuck his head in the sand and hid from anyone. He withstood a ton of bashing and has gained the respect of a lot of people and he is still here.

Shelly also possesses a ton of wealth and knowledge of the hobby and he shares that knowledge with the hobby.

Shelly also gained a ton of respect from a few in the FBI.

You can bash Shelly all you want, but he's not going anywhere and I'm proud to call him my friend.

[perezfan]

With all of the bad grammar and dozens of spelling errors in this thread, I am surprised that any of these people can authenticate anything. Shouldn't the basic ability to spell be a prerequisite for becoming an authenticator of autographs?

This discussion is going nowhere, as long as these people continue with their mindless backbiting and blind defense of their own personal agendas. The Autograph Forum has become the virtual mosh pit of Net54. I cannot fathom why any new collectors would choose to enter into this arena.... Very bad for the hobby, IMHO.

[Runscott]

I have a ton of respect for Shelly, Dave.

He paid a heavy price for what he did. Not only that, but Shelly has never never stuck is head in the stand and hid from anyone. He withstood a ton of bashing and has gained the respect of a lot of people and he is still here.

Shelly also possesses a ton of wealth and knowledge of the hobby and he shares that knowledge with the hobby.

Shelly also gained a ton of respect from a few in the FBI.

You can bash Shelly all you want, but he's not going anywhere and I'm proud to call him my friend.

+1

[RichardSimon]

I have a ton of respect for Shelly, Dave.

He paid a heavy price for what he did. Not only that, but Shelly has never never stuck is head in the stand and hid from anyone. He withstood a ton of bashing and has gained the respect of a lot of people and he is still here.

Shelly also possesses a ton of wealth and knowledge of the hobby and he shares that knowledge with the hobby.

Shelly also gained a ton of respect from a few in the FBI.

You can bash Shelly all you want, but he's not going anywhere and I'm proud to call him my friend.

+++++
And, he made restitution for the bad items which he sold.

[Runscott]

The Autograph Forum has become the virtual mosh pit of Net54. I cannot fathom why any new collectors would choose to enter into this arena.... Very bad for the hobby, IMHO.

We need to work toward a better mosh pit.

http://www.treenosoftware.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/mosh-pit1.jpg

[perezfan]

We need to work toward a better mosh pit.

http://www.treenosoftware.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/mosh-pit1.jpg

Infinitely better! :rolleyes:

[shelly]

With all of the bad grammar and dozens of spelling errors in this thread, I am surprised that any of these people can authenticate anything. Shouldn't the basic ability to spell be a prerequisite for becoming an authenticator of autographs?

This discussion is going nowhere, as long as these people continue with their mindless backbiting and blind defense of their own personal agendas. The Autograph Forum has become the virtual mosh pit of Net54. I cannot fathom why any new collectors would choose to enter into this arena.... Very bad for the hobby, IMHO.
I take it yours is poor spelling.:D

[joed25]

i have a ton of respect for shelly, dave.

He paid a heavy price for what he did. Not only that, but shelly has never never stuck his head in the stand and hid from anyone. He withstood a ton of bashing and has gained the respect of a lot of people and he is still here.

Shelly also possesses a ton of wealth and knowledge of the hobby and he shares that knowledge with the hobby.

Shelly also gained a ton of respect from a few in the fbi.

You can bash shelly all you want, but he's not going anywhere and i'm proud to call him my friend.

+100

[ibuysportsephemera]

[quote=ibuysportsephemera;1185855]Really Shelly, I don't know how you can tell me to stick it. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. BUT, I am surprised that you find it disgusting when someone brings your past up yet it is in the context of you questioning Mr. Frost's (who I have never heard of before this thread) past without provocation. This doesn't make sense to me.

Jeff[/QUOTe
You might not of heard about him but I have for a lot of years. If you can only bring up my past then you dont know me either. I am talking about the present with Mr. Frost. Untill they turned on him he was there best friend . My past is mine and I have to live with it which I have done. Mr Frost has to live with what he has done.
I don't find it disguting that you bring up my past. I find it disgusting that you have to use it in an agruement. I said the truth the past has nothing to do with that.

Shelly, I have no beef with you, Dave or Mike (or anyone else on Net54). I certainly didn't bring up your past either. I do believe that "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" and will leave the discussion at that.

Jeff

[thetruthisoutthere]

Mike, below is a PAAS COA that I have in my files.

Is this a legitimate PAAS COA or not?

114599

[Mr. Zipper]

Over the past few months I have come to know Shelly and consider him a friend. Clearly he made some serious mistakes in the past, but he has paid his dues to society and is the first to admit past mistakes. In the more recent past he has done a lot of "behind the scenes" work to combat fraud in the hobby. In my opinion, it is unfair to throw his past in his face to impugn his credibility.

By all accounts Mike Frost has made some missteps as well, and it looks like he is trying to make amends. I give him the benefit of the doubt and wish him the best of luck. It may be a journey, but if he stays on a righteous path, he can do it.

At the end of the day we all want the same thing - fraud rooted out, forgers and their distributors put out of business and a healthy hobby for the next generation.

[thetruthisoutthere]

By all accounts Mike Frost has made some missteps as well, and it looks like he is trying to make amends. I give him the benefit of the doubt and wish him the best of luck. It may be a journey, but if he stays on a righteous path, he can do it.



He has a long way to go, but his actions will speak louder than words.

[Runscott]

[quote=shelly;1185982]

Shelly, I have no beef with you, Dave or Mike (or anyone else on Net54). I certainly didn't bring up your past either. I do believe that "people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones" and will leave the discussion at that.

Jeff

Jeff, Shelly isn't in a 'glass house'. His house is well-defined, and has been for many years. Throw out another metaphor and we'll see if it sticks.

[ibuysportsephemera]

[quote=ibuysportsephemera;1186101]

Jeff, Shelly isn't in a 'glass house'. His house is well-defined, and has been for many years. Throw out another metaphor and we'll see if it sticks.

Scott, I don't have to answer to you or anyone else. This is between Shelly and I and I have tried to end it. I call it like I see it. I try to act like a gentleman and hope others do as well. I voiced my opinion and I don't need Shelly to tell me to stick it because I happen to agree with another poster. I don't know most of you personally, but I can see where people defend their friends whether they are right or wrong. All I said was that Mr. Frost has handled himself better then most under extreme criticism even though I am skeptical of his motivations for being here.

Jeff

[Runscott]

Scott, I don't have to answer to you or anyone else. This is between Shelly and I and I have tried to end it. I call it like I see it. I try to act like a gentleman and hope others do as well. I voiced my opinion and I don't need Shelly to tell me to stick it because I happen to agree with another poster. I don't know most of you personally, but I can see where people defend their friends whether they are right or wrong. All I said was that Mr. Frost has handled himself better then most under extreme criticism even though I am skeptical of his motivations for being here.

Jeff

WTF - through wasting my time in this thread. Jeff - knock yourself out.

[ibuysportsephemera]

[quote=ibuysportsephemera;1186134]

WTF - through wasting my time in this thread. Jeff - knock yourself out.

Scott, I agree..since I don't have a horse in this race, I am also done.

Jeff

[gnaz01]

[quote=Runscott;1186138]

Scott, I agree..since I don't have a horse in this race, I am also done.

Jeff

Jeff,

No offense, but you have said a lot of interesting things, but according to the rules, shouldn't your whole name appear in your posts??

Leon, am I incorrect here??

Greg

[Runscott]

Scott, I agree..since I don't have a horse in this race, I am also done.

Jeff

Jeff, we all have horses in this race. I stay away from most of the stuff that is easy pickings for the guys mentioned in this thread, but it's still part of our hobby. For example, the Ruth sig posted by Chris, authenticated by PAAS. Simply horrid. The sad truth is that anyone can simply declare themselves an 'expert' and start producing COA's. Sometimes I just have to tell myself that all of that bullshit doesn't affect me personally - it's only fvcking over people who blindly follow the TPA's. But somehow that still isn't very consoling.

My apologies for jumping on you, but yeah, Shelly is a friend. It's probably true that we cut our friends a little more slack than people who we consider assholes.

[Runscott]

Mike, below is a PAAS COA that I have in my files.

Is this a legitimate PAAS COA or not?

114599

This one is as horrible as they come. I would very much like to hear Mike's explanation for it. My guess is gross incompetence rather than fraud.

[ibuysportsephemera]

[quote=ibuysportsephemera;1186140]

Jeff,

No offense, but you have said a lot of interesting things, but according to the rules, shouldn't your whole name appear in your posts??

Leon, am I incorrect here??

Greg


Sure...Jeff G@rf!nkel

[ibuysportsephemera]

[quote=ibuysportsephemera;1186140]

Jeff, we all have horses in this race. I stay away from most of the stuff that is easy pickings for the guys mentioned in this thread, but it's still part of our hobby. For example, the Ruth sig posted by Chris, authenticated by PAAS. Simply horrid. The sad truth is that anyone can simply declare themselves an 'expert' and start producing COA's. Sometimes I just have to tell myself that all of that bullshit doesn't affect me personally - it's only fvcking over people who blindly follow the TPA's. But somehow that still isn't very consoling.

My apologies for jumping on you, but yeah, Shelly is a friend. It's probably true that we cut our friends a little more slack than people who we consider assholes.

Thanks Scott...I really wasn't trying to cause trouble. I probably should have just minded my own business. I should just stick to posting about sports memorabilia.

Jeff

[Runscott]

It's impossible for me to stay out of threads like this, even though my only intersection with this stuff is pre-war autographs. And I haven't even yet said what I really think of the original post - as the thread has progressed, I have felt less and less need to.

Okay, hell, I'll do it anyway: There are way too many threads started in forums by brand-new members, simply spewing venom against former business partners. To borrow from Shelly's metaphor, to me it looks like a dog with fleas complaining about other dogs who have a few more fleas, the original dog not realizing that all the other dogs are thinking "get a friggin flea collar and shut up"

[slidekellyslide]

I find threads like these to be educational for those of us who have not been collecting autographs for 40 years. I had never heard of PAAS before and I also had no idea that Richard Simon once worked at/for American Memorabilia. It's amazing how much venom there is between people who all seem to have the same agenda. It's a train wreck that I can't seem to avert my eyes from.

[shelly]

Dan, after the UCLA game I can understand why you have nothing better to do.:eek: Go Buckeyes.:):):)
s:):)

[RichardSimon]

I find threads like these to be educational for those of us who have not been collecting autographs for 40 years. I had never heard of PAAS before and I also had no idea that Richard Simon once worked at/for American Memorabilia. It's amazing how much venom there is between people who all seem to have the same agenda. It's a train wreck that I can't seem to avert my eyes from.

Dan - I was an autograph authenticator for American Memorabilia. That meant every time they had material for a new catalog I would fly to Las Vegas and examine autograph material for them. That was how I worked at/for them. Now it is PSA's job. I am sure they are finding it as "amusing" as I did.

[Michael Frost]

Mike, below is a PAAS COA that I have in my files.

Is this a legitimate PAAS COA or not?

114599
Chris,
This is a legitimate PAAS cerificate. This is a big difference from the COA shown prior and now we can a honest discussion on the problems with this signature. I would like to hear your personally concerns with the signature and not just negative words being thrown around. I am hoping that your opinion would be based upon the signature and not the person that certed this item.
Thank you.

[slidekellyslide]

Dan, after the UCLA game I can understand why you have nothing better to do.:eek: Go Buckeyes.:):):)
s:):)

No doubt...Husker nation is in complete meltdown right now over Pelini.

[slidekellyslide]

Dan - I was an autograph authenticator for American Memorabilia. That meant every time they had material for a new catalog I would fly to Las Vegas and examine autograph material for them. That was how I worked at/for them. Now it is PSA's job. I am sure they are finding it as "amusing" as I did.

Well, at least they hire legit authenticators.

[Fuddjcal]

Over the past few months I have come to know Shelly and consider him a friend. Clearly he made some serious mistakes in the past, but he has paid his dues to society and is the first to admit past mistakes. In the more recent past he has done a lot of "behind the scenes" work to combat fraud in the hobby. In my opinion, it is unfair to throw his past in his face to impugn his credibility.

By all accounts Mike Frost has made some missteps as well, and it looks like he is trying to make amends. I give him the benefit of the doubt and wish him the best of luck. It may be a journey, but if he stays on a righteous path, he can do it.

At the end of the day we all want the same thing - fraud rooted out, forgers and their distributors put out of business and a healthy hobby for the next generation.

I agree wholeheartedly Zip...

[Runscott]

........


This is a thread that needs to experience a quick death

[Rich Klein]

The autograph guys are having all the fun :D

[Exhibitman]

The autograph guys are having all the fun :D

Hey, at least they aren't threatening to sue Archive.

[Rich Klein]

but would not you like to be the one to defend archive in court

[thetruthisoutthere]

Chris,
This is a legitimate PAAS cerificate. This is a big difference from the COA shown prior and now we can a honest discussion on the problems with this signature. I would like to hear your personally concerns with the signature and not just negative words being thrown around. I am hoping that your opinion would be based upon the signature and not the person that certed this item.
Thank you.

That Babe Ruth is an ugly forgery. Looks like it came from Coach's Corner.

Second, I would never base my opinion on an autograph on the person who certed it.

[Michael Frost]

That Babe Ruth is an ugly forgery. Looks like it came from Coach's Corner.

Second, I would never base my opinion on an autograph on the person who certed it.
I do appreciate that and I respect your opinion. This item did not come from coaches corner and I would be happy to listen to any points you can make about the signature. I am with you not against you, for some reason I feel you have the wrong impression of me and my agenda. Like I said I have been involved in this industry longer the most and I can do nothing but help the good guys in there quest to fix the hobby.
What would you say about this Ruth signature, I was asked about last week.
114675

[thetruthisoutthere]

I do appreciate that and I respect your opinion. This item did not come from coaches corner and I would be happy to listen to any points you can make about the signature. I am with you not against you, for some reason I feel you have the wrong impression of me and my agenda. Like I said I have been involved in this industry longer the most and I can do nothing but help the good guys in there quest to fix the hobby.
What would you say about this Ruth signature, I was asked about last week.
114675

Authentic.

[Runscott]

...and I would be happy to listen to any points you can make about the signature.
.....
Like I said I have been involved in this industry longer the most and I can do nothing but help the good guys in there quest to fix the hobby.

As Chris stated, it is a horrible forgery. What is alarming is that you "have been involved in this industry longer than most", but you do not recognize immediately that this is a forgery.

I have no ill-will toward you (I don't even know you), but I buy vintage autographs every now and then and hate to see this level of authentication expertise behind COA's. It's the same sort of stuff that has of ranting against PSA and JSA, only I don't think either of them would have passed this.

[thetruthisoutthere]

As Chris stated, it is a horrible forgery. What is alarming is that you "have been involved in this industry longer than most", but you do not recognize immediately that this is a forgery.

I have no ill-will toward you (I don't even know you), but I buy vintage autographs every now and then and hate to see this level of authentication expertise behind COA's. It's the same sort of stuff that has of ranting against PSA and JSA, only I don't think either of them would have passed this.

The irony is that I was asking about the COA, not the sig.

That Ruth was just a side note.

That being said, the Ruth is horrible.

[Runscott]

The irony is that I was asking about the COA, not the sig.

That Ruth was just a side note.

That being said, the Ruth is horrible.

That IS irony.

[dgo71]

Chris,
This is a legitimate PAAS cerificate.

So it's a legitimate COA on a bogus autograph? :confused:

[thetruthisoutthere]

That Babe Ruth was on Ebay and it was removed.

[Leon]

I am not an autograph guy whatsoever and can tell that Ruth is bad, above (with the cert)..The stroke in that signature is awful, It doesn't flow... as well as the R in Ruth is grotesque....and the rest of it isn't much better. It's all bad. And before I looked at any responses I thought the one on the bill was good too :)....

[Big Dave]

Mr. Frost,

Who are the Treasurer and Sec. of Treasury on that Ruth signed dollar bill you asked about?

[shelly]

Great question. If you took ten seconds out I think you will find it is on a 1935 or a little after bank note. :rolleyes: He might have no idea what is real but I would give him enough credit to know if the bill would be in that time period.
114683

[Michael Frost]

Mr. Frost,

Who are the Treasurer and Sec. of Treasury on that Ruth signed dollar bill you asked about?


Frederick Moore Vinson

[r2678]

Silver certificates of that design were printed well into the 1950s. Vinson was Secretary of the Treasury mid 1945 - mid 1946. They would have been in circulation during Ruth's lifetime.

[shelly]

Silver certificates of that design were printed well into the 1950s. Vinson was Secretary of the Treasury mid 1945 - mid 1946. They would have been in circulation during Ruth's lifetime.[/QUOTE]
Sorry only saw the one signtiure at the bottom. Still turned out right . Not to my credit. I looked at the signiture at the bottom left and saw series 1935 she was around for a long time.

[shelly]

They shut the site down. I think everyone owes Roger Epperson a debt of graditude:) It was his law suite that made it happen.

[Big Dave]

What site Shelly?

[shelly]

Gee Dave,what is the title of this thread?

[shelly]

It keeps going up down. Hopefully it stays down.

[Big Dave]

That site was still up, thus the question.

PS.....good job on the Jackson items.

[shelly]

That site was still up, thus the question.

PS.....good job on the Jackson items.

Thanks.:) It was closed early today so it might still happen.

[Fuddjcal]

nice to see Brooke Mueller & Steve Kocktail are through filling the Autograph hobby with Psychotic Ramblings...Nice Job Mike, Roger, whoever had a hand in it.

Now all they have is the Kumbaya Connection.:(:(:( Maybe they can stick to jerking each other off for a while and stop the nonsense hate they LOVE to perpetuate ....in the name of God of course.....

http://www.wouldyoubelieve.com/sounds/niceness.wav

[Michael Frost]

Thanks.:) It was closed early today so it might still happen..
ANL is still down for now but I know what we are dealing with here and it will be up again under a different name or with a new ((editor-in-chief)). It is down for now and that is thanks to Roger Epperson & a few other lawsuits.
Also I want to thank Shelly for the great work shutting down the JJ auction today... One day this shall all become fun again.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Let's see if "The Planet" welcomes the great news that ANL is now down.

[Deertick]

.
ANL is still down for now but I know what we are dealing with here and it will be up again under a different name or with a new ((editor-in-chief)). It is down for now and that is thanks to Roger Epperson & a few other lawsuits.
Also I want to thank Shelly for the great work shutting down the JJ auction today... One day this shall all become fun again.

I heard that it will be Becky Muellar. We'll have to shut that down because, as you know, we hate women and don't think it's right for them to own websites. Well, some websites...:D

[jeffects]

I, too, have been a target of Mueller and that dirtbag in "Florida."

The problem with Mueller is that he hates anyone exposing crap that he's sold, or a forgery that comes with his COA.

Mueller will make up the wildest stories to defend a forgery that he's sold. And if anyone chooses to expose his garbage, he will attack them.

That's what Mueller does. And then he hides behind the "church."

That's Mueller.

A recent thread on Net54 showed a Sandy Koufax secretarial listed on Mueller's auction site. It's a commonly known Koufax secretarial. Mueller's been involved with autographs for 35 years and he still doesn't know a common Koufax secretarial!!! Seriously, Mueller? What's your "story" behind the Koufax, Mueller? I'll look for it on "The Planet" or "ANL."

114180

Hi Chris and all, What do you think of these? They are from an auction catalog I have that is probably 15-20 years old. I'll give you a hint if you'd like. I am so sick of the pretentious, self righteous nonsense that self proclaimed experts espouse. I like your you-tube stuff. Keep up the good fight.

[jeffects]

I am sorry for the misunderstanding I was talking about Mr. Simon.
Victor M. is another story and may be even more interesting then Richard (sorry R.S. ) but I do happen to like both Victor & Keita.

Oh Please Mike!!!!!!! You just lost a ton of credibility!

From Chris Williams earlier link:

The amount you got back isn’t quite what you expected, but it comes very close — and in view of the heaps of complaints about American Memorabilia, the Fixer thinks you’re actually pretty lucky. We learned that Susan Kieta, whose real name is Kieta Kieta (yes, you read that right), filed for bankruptcy May 31 in Nevada, declaring almost $3.2 million in liabilities on assets of only $493,537. The list of creditors runs about 50 pages.

[Big Dave]

NM

[jeffects]

Shelly....seriously?

You should be one of the last people on here casting stones against redemption, or trying to better one's public persona. Mr. Frost may or may not have authenticated some questionable items, but you personally sold a lot of forgeries that you knew for a fact were forgeries.

Could not agree more. I couldn't help but laugh at his responses (shelly) considering he is one of the most dis-respected goons in the hobby. I guess crooks come on here to try and resuscitate their career so in the future they can rip off more people. Shelly, some of us remember your phoney "mea culpa" diatribe when you first came on here.

[jeffects]

Jeffects.....please place your name with your posts.

And who are you dave? (a moderator?) Leon has all my info, perhaps he will pass it along to you.

I don't mind giving my name, I just don't automatically acquiesce to goof-balls making demands.

Ask Leon, then you can even write to me if you want.

[jeffects]

Oh, Sorry. I meant to say "BIG" dave.

[Leon]

And who are you dave? (a moderator?) Leon has all my info, perhaps he will pass it along to you.

I don't mind giving my name, I just don't automatically acquiesce to goof-balls making demands.

Ask Leon, then you can even write to me if you want.

I am a goofball but you don't need to acquiesce. :) Per the the rules your name is under your id now. Same rules for everyone.

[jeffects]

I guess big dave chose to delete his post demanding to know who I am. Ha Ha, I didn't tell him, but I will tell you, I'm Jeff Clark. Perhaps you've heard of me... I didn't think so. Ha. Please don't tell big dave who I am...

[jeffects]

I am a goofball but you don't need to acquiesce. :) Per the the rules your name is under your id now. Same rules for everyone.

Hi Leon, That's fine, I haven't been on for a while and perhaps the rules have changed. I already divulged that secret information before I saw your post. Ha Ha, no problem.

[Big Dave]

Well Mr.Clark....

Bring as you have been on here since 09...figured you might like to actualy join all of us goofballs that place our names with our rants, but Leon corrected that for you.

Welcome aboard goofball.

[jeffects]

Well Mr.Clark....

Bring as you have been on here since 09...figured you might like to actualy join all of us goofballs that place our names with our rants, but Leon corrected that for you.

Welcome aboard goofball.

Which means I've been a member of this site longer than you big, but thank you for the warm welcome.

[Big Dave]

You are very welcome, and I'm fairly certain Shelly will welcome you too.

[jeffects]

I am a goofball but you don't need to acquiesce. :) Per the the rules your name is under your id now. Same rules for everyone.

Hi Leon, from the profile page:

"As much of your real name as you are comfortable being included in the directory and with your posts. e.g. "Joe" "Joe J." or "Joe Jackson."

Feel free to call me Jeff Clark or perhaps Joe Jackson, either works well for me. Ha Ha, I love you guys!

[jeffects]

You are very welcome, and I'm fairly certain Shelly will welcome you too.

Oh, I've shared my thoughts with Shelly many times. You may have missed it.

[Leon]

Hi Leon, from the profile page:

"As much of your real name as you are comfortable being included in the directory and with your posts. e.g. "Joe" "Joe J." or "Joe Jackson."

Feel free to call me Jeff Clark or perhaps Joe Jackson, either works well for me. Ha Ha, I love you guys!

Not sure where the above quote is from but there is an addendum to that, and it supersedes anything else. It is under the Forum Rules icon....regards