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Harliduck
09-05-2013, 03:48 PM
I just stumbled across an internet article where the blogger mentioned in all the wax packs he opened in 1991, he never pulled a Vintage card. If you remember, in 1991 it was the 40th Anniversary and Topps placed one of each vintage card made in packs randomly. The blogger had only heard of two pulls, a 1971 and a 1975 common.

1991 was the last year I have ever opened a pack...and honestly I had been done for about a year. But I had found myself in a Costco and was suckered in to buying like 4 boxes. I remember at home that night I pulled a 1970 Topps Cito Gaston card. I actually put all the cards I opened, including the 70 card, back into the wax boxes and put them up in the attic. When I got back into collecting (vintage sets) I remembered that Cito and after digging for hours to find it, it is sitting in my binder with my complete 1970 set. I was born that year, so to me it is really cool I can say I pulled one of my 1970 cards out of a pack...myself.

Anyway...does anyone here have any good memories from 1991 pulling any Vintage cards, or knows someone who did? My local shop has about 8 boxes of 1991 wax..I was thinking it would be fun to rip into them. At 4.95 a box it sounds like cheap fun, although I wouldn't know what the heck to do with all those 91 Topps...haha...

Isn't the 91 Topps the first run of cards to insert random "lottery" type cards?

Wolfgang427
09-05-2013, 04:58 PM
I remember opening about 8 boxes and getting a 69 common card(manager)...I was so disappointed it wasn't a Mantle...:(

Zach Wheat
09-05-2013, 05:30 PM
I just stumbled across an internet article where the blogger mentioned in all the wax packs he opened in 1991, he never pulled a Vintage card. If you remember, in 1991 it was the 40th Anniversary and Topps placed one of each vintage card made in packs randomly. The blogger had only heard of two pulls, a 1971 and a 1975 common.

1991 was the last year I have ever opened a pack...and honestly I had been done for about a year. But I had found myself in a Costco and was suckered in to buying like 4 boxes. I remember at home that night I pulled a 1970 Topps Cito Gaston card. I actually put all the cards I opened, including the 70 card, back into the wax boxes and put them up in the attic. When I got back into collecting (vintage sets) I remembered that Cito and after digging for hours to find it, it is sitting in my binder with my complete 1970 set. I was born that year, so to me it is really cool I can say I pulled one of my 1970 cards out of a pack...myself.

Anyway...does anyone here have any good memories from 1991 pulling any Vintage cards, or knows someone who did? My local shop has about 8 boxes of 1991 wax..I was thinking it would be fun to rip into them. At 4.95 a box it sounds like cheap fun, although I wouldn't know what the heck to do with all those 91 Topps...haha...

Isn't the 91 Topps the first run of cards to insert random "lottery" type cards?

I just ran across another blog where they had tracked the redemptions from the 1991 Topps packs - identified in post #31 I think from this thread:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=165309&page=4

He listed a number of winners, but did not track all the vintage winners. I think it would be incredibly fun to pull a vintage from this set. I shudder to think of how many packs I would have to open to make a "hit".

Z Wheat

bnorth
09-05-2013, 08:32 PM
I opened a ton of 91 Topps wax and all I got was a 1988 common.

Harliduck
09-05-2013, 08:45 PM
I opened a ton of 91 Topps wax and all I got was a 1988 common.

Oh man, I would be so ticked...haha. An 88 common is probably worth LESS than a 91!

Great link Zack...thanks!

ALR-bishop
09-06-2013, 11:21 AM
I still have four unopened boxes which I kept because of this promotion. Topps supposedly had gone into the market and had procured at least 3 of each card it had issued prior to 1991 for it's 40th anniversary celebration. The 51 sets were not included in the promo. For 52 to 56, and for any card with a then market value over $ 50 ( not sure how they determined that) they did not insert the actual card due to size or value, but rather had redemption/contest cards as inserts. I was always curious as to whether all the pre 1957 cards and value cards were redeemed.

You could also enter a contest through an insert card to win a grand prize which was a full Topps set run, or one of the complete sets in the run. The game cards said your odds of getting a older card in a pack was 1 in 1000.

The inserts say all redemptions had to be claimed prior to 4-1-92 and that unclaimed cards would not be awarded

There were 2 types of insert cards...Match The Stats and Instant Win Game. The Match The Stats involved a scratch off game for prizes. The Instant Win card involved a chance to win a prize based on the card itself, or a chance to enter a drawing for the Topps set run.

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img613_zps59460abb.jpg?t=1378394302

The Instant Win Game cards were sequentially numbered If anyone has any of these laying around, I need the following to complete a "set" :o

12411
12478
12545

Also, I like to collect variations, errors and print defects with my sets. In my opinion there are more variant cards involved in the 1991 set than any other Topps set.

Also in 1991 Topps offered a lot of other baseball products

Traded Set
Desert Shield Set
Box Panel Set
All Star Glossy Rookie Set
Glossy Rookies Set
East Coast National Reprints
Gallery Of Champions Aluminum, Bronze and Silver Sets
Golden Spike Award Card
Babe Ruth Set---from movie
The Garagiola business card
Super Stand Ups
53 Archives
Major League Debut Set
B Robinson Bronze card

savedfrommyspokes
09-06-2013, 01:20 PM
I pulled a 75 Topps Brent Strom out of one of the 91Topps packs...I still have that card today....it was in about EX shape. Apparently Topps spared no expense in buying back the cards they inserted into these 1991 packs

Harliduck
09-06-2013, 01:30 PM
I pulled a 75 Topps Brent Strom out of one of the 91Topps packs...I still have that card today....it was in about EX shape. Apparently Topps spared no expense in buying back the cards they inserted into these 1991 packs

My 1970 Cito Gaston was severely miscut, but the corners were sharp.


Thanks Al for all the info...I do have that bunch of unopened 91s still sitting around, I can check my contest cards for you...haha. Any cool variations I should be looking for?

Zach Wheat
09-06-2013, 04:38 PM
I pulled a 75 Topps Brent Strom out of one of the 91Topps packs...I still have that card today....it was in about EX shape. Apparently Topps spared no expense in buying back the cards they inserted into these 1991 packs

If the true odds of winning were 1:1,000 per Al's card above (must read the fine print) and the production figures were close to the same as the 1992 Topps set (76 million packs) then that is 76,000 "winners".

Z Wheat

AustinMike
09-06-2013, 07:21 PM
If the true odds of winning were 1:1,000 per Al's card above (must read the fine print) and the production figures were close to the same as the 1992 Topps set (76 million packs) then that is 76,000 "winners".

Z Wheat

Coming at it from a different direction, from 1952 to 1990, there were 24,530 cards in the main Topps sets. Therefore, if the 1/1,000 is correct, there would have been 24.53 million packs produced. The fine print on the game card does say that at least one of every card produced in included. In order to get up to 76 million packs, they'd have to put in around 3 of every card. It's more likely they put in 1 of every card and filled it out with many extra cheapos, for instance lots of 1988, 1989, 1990 commons.

Zach Wheat
09-06-2013, 09:38 PM
The link provided in an earlier post - if correct - indicates they actually purchased 300,000 Topps cards for insertion. This presumably included counting cards for the full set winners for each year and a Grand Prize winner who won every set since 1952. And they indicate they spent less than $1MM in the promotion.

That's a lot of cards.

Z Wheat

AustinMike
09-06-2013, 11:52 PM
If they did buy 300,000 cards, they made a lot of packs. Take away 24,530 for the complete run and another 24,530 for each individual year, that leaves 250,940 cards to be put in packs. With the stated odds of 1/1,000, that's almost 251 million packs. That's quite a bit more than the 1992 production of 77 million packs you cite. Were these only available in wax packs? Assumining they were all in 15 card wax packs (neglecting cellos and rack packs), that's 4.75 million 792 card 1991 SETS just from wax packs. Throw in factory sets and vending boxes (and potentially cello and rack packs) and you're talking a mammoth production run.

ALR-bishop
09-07-2013, 08:59 AM
The statement about 52 to 56 cards and value cards being handled differently comes after the 1-1000, I wonder if they were included in the "calculations". You guys who are good with math always make me feel dumb

Zach Wheat
09-07-2013, 11:54 AM
Were these only available in wax packs? Assumining they were all in 15 card wax packs (neglecting cellos and rack packs), that's 4.75 million 792 card 1991 SETS just from wax packs. Throw in factory sets and vending boxes (and potentially cello and rack packs) and you're talking a mammoth production run.

I am not sure if this only includes wax packs. I know the Desert Shield packs also had the same promotion and used the exact same boxes & wrappers - therefore the difficulty in telling the two sets apart without opening packs. I do not know if rak paks, vending cases, cellos & sets were included in the promotion...and therefore included in the 1:1,000 ratio. Either way it is a lot of cards.

Originally, I thought I could determine the date cards/sets/sheets were printed from the codes at the bottom or side of each box. However, I now believe the code actually is related to the print run / product type (code#362 sheets of baseball) / type (code 70 is for a box) as in the example below.

Therefore most of the 1991 variations - and as Al has pointed out there are numerous variations - will be found in the sheets that start with an 01 or an 02 print code indicating the corresponding print run as they fixed the errors. Desert Shield cards were printed in the 3rd print run but used the 1st print run boxes.

Z Wheat

HasselhoffsCheeseburger
09-07-2013, 12:17 PM
Zach, unfortunately this doesn't assist in this thread's specific topic but I thought you might find this link helpful for future endeavors. It's nonsport-centric but does list Topps sportscard production codes as well.

http://www.wacky-packages.net/topps/topps-sets.htm

Zach Wheat
09-07-2013, 12:46 PM
The statement about 52 to 56 cards and value cards being handled differently comes after the 1-1000, I wonder if they were included in the "calculations". You guys who are good with math always make me feel dumb

:) Always the joker! I am still trying to determine if Larry was right that you can't watch TV and count at the same time.

Zach, unfortunately this doesn't assist in this thread's specific topic but I thought you might find this link helpful for future endeavors. It's nonsport-centric but does list Topps sportscard production codes as well.

http://www.wacky-packages.net/topps/topps-sets.htm

Arthur,

Thank you for the link.

Z Wheat

ALR-bishop
09-07-2013, 05:22 PM
Actually I said it. I doubt Larry would have an opinion on it, but Bob
( bobbsbbcards) would and did definitely agree. He knows me pretty well by now...and he is a numbers guy like you. He makes me feel dumb too