How many COA's make an autograph real?

[travrosty]

I have a question, how many COA's/opinions on an autograph before it becomes real? I have thought on it but want to know others because it interests me to know what a COA really means out there in the hobby? What is a COA? What does it accomplish? Is a COA worth anything? Does it give a false sense of security to those who don't know a particular autograph, for them to see a COA gives them what?

[Runscott]

edited...

pulling out of this one.

[7nohitter]

oh boy...

[shelly]

etc etc etc:eek:

[Mr. Zipper]

It's the gift that keeps on giving.

http://boards.collectors-society.com/images/graemlins/default/popcorn.gif

[sago]

Can you post the results of this same discussion from autograph planet, or are you only interested in the opinions on this issue from people that are not members of your site? For the record, the answer is zero.

[D.P.Johnson]

I lost all interest in collecting autographs as soon as I found out you could become a Forensic Document Examiner by taking an on-line course...

[mighty bombjack]

exactly four and a half, no more and no less

[otismalibu]

I don't think there are any items out there with multiple COA's.

[mighty bombjack]

I don't think there are any items out there with multiple COA's.

I have seen several with both PSA/DNA and JSA.

Now, STAT, ACE, Morales, etc, those certs always stand on their own.

[otismalibu]

Are we talking COAs or COA's?

[frankh8147]

exactly four and a half, no more and no less

Almost dead on but I don't trust the 'and a half' part- why was that last guy only 50% sure?...to be honest, I think I would prefer 4 rather than 4 1/2 so from my perspective, 4 is my magic number..or you can just use PSA, get one, and know 100% it's real! (I dont usually read the autograph forum but I assume this thread was posted as a pro PSA ad so I figured I would just lead us all right to it!)

[D.P.Johnson]

80% of all autographs are fake, and the other 20% might be fake...

[mighty bombjack]

(I dont usually read the autograph forum but I assume this thread was posted as a pro PSA ad so I figured I would just lead us all right to it!)

You clearly do NOT read the forum if you think that was the purpose of this thread.

Welcome!

[mighty bombjack]

80% of all autographs are fake, and the other 20% might be fake...

Right on!

[shelly]

Why would anyone answere such a stupid question?:confused:

[RichardSimon]

I lost all interest in collecting autographs as soon as I found out you could become a Forensic Document Examiner by taking an on-line course...

That is not correct.
You can take a correspondence course for the educational value of it but that does not make you an FDE.
An FDE needs to work in a lab and get formal training for 2 years before he can qualify.
There is a self titled forensic handwriting examiner in our business named Frank Garo. He has admitted to me that he gave himself that title. The title has no meaning in the forensic business.

[Deertick]

I have a question, how many COA's/opinions on an autograph before it becomes real? I have thought on it but want to know others because it interests me to know what a COA really means out there in the hobby? What is a COA? What does it accomplish? Is a COA worth anything? Does it give a false sense of security to those who don't know a particular autograph, for them to see a COA gives them what?

I don't have an answer for this.
I do have another answer. One Thousand Nine Hundred and Sixty-Three.
The question is: How many worthless posts does Travis have out of 2011?

[D.P.Johnson]

That is not correct.
You can take a correspondence course for the educational value of it but that does not make you an FDE.
An FDE needs to work in a lab and get formal training for 2 years before he can qualify.
There is a self titled forensic handwriting examiner in our business named Frank Garo. He has admitted to me that he gave himself that title. The title has no meaning in the forensic business.

That's correct, except the definititon of a "lab" and "formal training" are loosely translated, and the hours logged are at the discretion of the person doing the training which can be easily manipulated. Regardless, there are scores of people with FDE certificates who regularly certify autographs as being authentic only to be proven incorrect at a later date...

[thetruthisoutthere]

I have a question, how many COA's/opinions on an autograph before it becomes real? I have thought on it but want to know others because it interests me to know what a COA really means out there in the hobby? What is a COA? What does it accomplish? Is a COA worth anything? Does it give a false sense of security to those who don't know a particular autograph, for them to see a COA gives them what?

Well, Travis, if the first COA is from Mueller......that's all folks!!!!

[thetruthisoutthere]

You clearly do NOT read the forum if you think that was the purpose of this thread.

Welcome!

Well done, Wayne.

It's called deflection.

[Fuddjcal]

I lost all interest in collecting autographs as soon as I found out you could become a Forensic Document Examiner by taking an on-line course...

I lost all interest when I found out Travis was involved....very involved

[Fuddjcal]

i don't have an answer for this.
I do have another answer. One thousand nine hundred and sixty-three.
The question is: How many worthless posts does travis have out of 2011?

2011

[RichardSimon]

there are scores of people with FDE certificates who regularly certify autographs as being authentic only to be proven incorrect at a later date...
+1

(and it seems there are more now than ever, they crawl out from under rocks seemingly every other day, plucking dollars out of people's pockets)

[Exhibitman]

None. They are all real. Some might not be genuine, though...

[D.P.Johnson]

+1

(and it seems there are more now than ever, they crawl out from under rocks seemingly every other day, plucking dollars out of people's pockets)

Yep.
And, quite honestly, if I were ever going to "trust" someone to authenticate items, it would be someone who had a past history of working for a L.E. agency. I think someone with this type of history understands the consequences of falsifying documents, testifying under oath, the importance of being honest and truthful, etc...

[shelly]

Yep.
And, quite honestly, if I were ever going to "trust" someone to authenticate items, it would be someone who had a past history of working for a L.E. agency. I think someone with this type of history understands the consequences of falsifying documents, testifying under oath, the importance of being honest and truthful, etc...

You mean like Morales or the guys Steve Rocchi has working for him?:eek:

[D.P.Johnson]

You mean like Morales or the guys Steve Rocchi has working for him?:eek:

The key word in my statement was "if" Shelly...

[shelly]

I was just trying to take the if out of the equation.:)

[RichardSimon]

the importance of being honest and truthful, etc...

Now that would be a find,, a hobby FDE with those qualities.

[Runscott]

Here's my view: Travis is one of the good guys. He just doesn't know how to communicate his viewpoint in a way that anyone wants to listen. That's not such a bad thing, as anyone can learn how to listen better.

For what it's worth, I have asked Travis' opinion on boxing autographs and he's always been very cordial.

[D.P.Johnson]

Now that would be a find,, a hobby FDE with those qualities.

I've heard rumors that there's one guy out there that's pretty honest; it's just a rumor though...:)....

[RichardSimon]

For what it's worth, I have asked Travis' opinion on boxing autographs and he's always been very cordial.

I have the same experience with him.

[mighty bombjack]

Here's my view: Travis is one of the good guys. He just doesn't know how to communicate his viewpoint in a way that anyone wants to listen. That's not such a bad thing, as anyone can learn how to listen better.

For what it's worth, I have asked Travis' opinion on boxing autographs and he's always been very cordial.

He is one of the good guys, no doubt, in a hobby full of greed and slime balls. I agree with his general premises. But man, is his style of "discussion" grating. I feel like he is constantly accusing people (e.g. me) of "backing" and "supporting" TPAs simply because we are merely annoyed by them and not angrily crusading against them.

That gets old quick, but his obsession (borderline insanity) can be entertaining at times, too. These message boards are a nice little slice of society and a hobby within a hobby.

[GrayGhost]

Yes, but the drama can also turn people off, in a spot where getting the best feeling that something has solid authenticity should be the main goal, be it via TPA, or self education

[slidekellyslide]

What I have found out about this hobby from hanging out here on this forum is that there are a lot of good guys...they just don't all get along together.

[shelly]

Dan, why would you say that:p

[Rich Klein]

on some of the great hobby fist-fights and arguments I have seen in my years of collecting/dealing. Some of them have been freal beauts. Lou Avon vs Mike Bertolini never got past words but that is one I wish had. That would have been 1/2 ton of fun watching.

[Wymers Auction]

Yes, but the drama can also turn people off, in a spot where getting the best feeling that something has solid authenticity should be the main goal, be it via TPA, or self education

If this is true then why are the arguments almost always the longest posts?

[thetruthisoutthere]

What I have found out about this hobby from hanging out here on this forum is that there are a lot of good guys...they just don't all get along together.

True, Dan, but it makes for a lot of fun and interesting discussion.

[Runscott]

True, Dan, but it makes for a lot of fun and interesting discussion.

With very rare exceptions, there are ways that work for discussing things with anyone, and actually get an "interesting discussion" as a result. I think the key is being able to accept their opinions, even when they seem ludicrous, and to avoid their buttons. The only way I've found to do that and enjoy it, which means 'pushing the envelope', is to get in a few fights so that you understand what you can get away with. That sounds bad, but some people can take certain things and others can't, so you have to figure each out individually.

I say 'rare exceptions' because I have only found two people on this board that I simply can't talk to - I've apologized when I wasn't even in the wrong, but it had no effect. One of them is actually a super-decent guy - I can tell from his acts of kindness toward others. Oh well.

[BERTO]

on some of the great hobby fist-fights and arguments I have seen in my years of collecting/dealing. Some of them have been freal beauts. Lou Avon vs Mike Bertolini never got past words but that is one I wish had. That would have been 1/2 ton of fun watching.

U must be confusing me with Mead....