View Full Version : what a joke
thehoodedcoder
08-11-2013, 12:05 AM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=271222721123
Response from seller:
The description is accurate so one is left to discuss merely the price.The multiplicity which T206 collecting has fractioned into creates a tremendous demand for a specimen which is slightly different or simply stands out from the rest.Blank backs, miscuts, stray text versions, print defect jobs, freaks, singles with ghosted surfaces, and color varieties, almost without exception once thought to be relatively WORTHLESS, are now instead all the craze with many selling for thousands and even tens of thousands of dollars both privately and publicly.This exponential value growth is still happening with an end nowhere in sight.You can emphatically claim that this card is not worth even a grand, but years from now when everyone is still hunting desperately while the supply of distinct T206's has dried up even further, you or someone else might well fit into the category of "I really wish I had bought that card when it was REASONABLY PRICED."Best wishes for much continued hobby enjoyment.Regards,Irishhosta
:D LOL :D what a joke. Im going to start putting my old mill slers on ebay and claiming the same thing then marking them up 100x
when anyone asks about them i will give them this guys reply.
kevin
Zach Wheat
08-11-2013, 07:36 AM
They actually are a pretty good seller. I have bought a number of pre WW II cards from them. They had the only set Of V61s Type IIs with a good mix of Type Is that I have seen in a long time. At the time I did not realize how rare Type Is we're for certain cards and passed on the set. They were knowledgeable and willing to negotiate. Now I wish I purchased it as I have seen very few of certain cards since.
I chalk the description you referenced as being a promoter...perhaps this is not an unreasonable price for someone.....
Z Wheat
bobbyw8469
08-11-2013, 07:45 AM
I know this seller has some Sport Kings I wanted when I was building the set. His prices were so far off in left field, I didn't even bother to make an offer, as any reasonable offer would be seen as an insult by him. Another Ebay museum seller in my eyes.....
The back of this card is browner than any typical Black Old Mill back you see. Furthermore, it is factory cut and you can judge for yourself if it is brown enough to enter into your collection as an official Brown Old Mill back.
Response from seller:
The description is accurate
Hmmmm... when he says "the back of this card is browner" I wonder if he's referring to the actual overall surface of the back, and not the print (that print, btw, is not close AT ALL to being brownish).
If he's trying to say that the print is brown, well, his description is not accurate. I guess by letting us "judge for ourselves" he is absolving himself from any blame should the card look black in hand.
Ultimately, no experienced T206 collector will buy this as a legit brown OM.
€hû¢k Wölƒƒ
[I won't edit this post, but to clear up any confusion, the ebay description was changed after this post]
My favorite part is where he says "factory cut." Brown Old Mills were not distributed in packs and are essentially printer's scrap, so shouldn't they be hand cut?
If it was a Brown Old Mill, which it is not. :rolleyes:
Ultimately, no experienced T206 collector will buy this as a legit brown OM.
€hû¢k Wölƒƒ
This all reminds me of what Wonka said recently in another thread," If you have to ask, it isn't brown." :D
Rich Klein
08-11-2013, 11:23 AM
Brian and Michael Wentz in thei other selling ID --- few people know as much as they do about cards.
Rich
thehoodedcoder
08-11-2013, 11:33 AM
Brian and Michael Wentz in thei other selling ID --- few people know as much as they do about cards.
Rich
They are displaying their ignOrance proudly on this one...
Kevin
the 'stache
08-11-2013, 03:28 PM
Ok, I will volunteer myself as the discussion newbie, and ask why the card for sale is not a brown old mill. Coincidentally, I did a search for rarest T206 backs last night, and found this old thread on our forum:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=121930
Old mill brown is the scarcest, apparently, but the one up for sale looks brown to me.
Could somebody please post a picture of a true old mill brown back here? I'll then copy the back from the Ebay auction, and make a picture in Photoshop to put them side by side.
Might as well make this discussion a learning tool. :D
the 'stache
08-11-2013, 03:30 PM
Hmm, this might suffice..
http://i34.servimg.com/u/f34/11/79/87/28/brown_10.jpg
But how can I tell the one for sale is not the one on the left, the rarer version?
But how can I tell the one for sale is not the one on the left, the rarer version?
It simply does not look brown to me when comparing to legitimate brown OM backs. It can be tough to tell if you're dealing with a bad scan or photo, but this one seems fairly clear.
thehoodedcoder
08-11-2013, 05:05 PM
the person selling this card knows very well that it is not a brown back.
no real need for discussion about it. they are simply saying what they are saying so they can put a 2500.00 price tag on their item and hope some one is going to buy it.
their response says it all..."give me 2500 and then you decide if it is half brown and half black or if you made a big mistake."
kevin
the 'stache
08-11-2013, 05:50 PM
the person selling this card knows very well that it is not a brown back.
no real need for discussion about it. they are simply saying what they are saying so they can put a 2500.00 price tag on their item and hope some one is going to buy it.
their response says it all..."give me 2500 and then you decide if it is half brown and half black or if you made a big mistake."
kevin
Since I believe we're all in agreement about this particular auction, Kevin, I'll just leave this link to a discussion that has already taken place on Net54 (thanks to Sean for directing me to it).
http://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=172268
Anybody who stumbles across this thread in the future looking for more information about identifying true brown Old Mills backs need only go to this linked discussion.
wonkaticket
08-11-2013, 06:19 PM
Not brown, and these two folks should know its not and know better than to even hint that it is. The very response is sign that its not brown any card that needs that much of a pitch isn't a tough card.
Nice to know that some folks can put a price on their credibility looks like theirs can be had for 2500.
Cardboard Junkie
08-11-2013, 07:27 PM
Brian and Michael Wentz in thei other selling ID --- few people know as much as they do about cards.
Rich
This is what DICK says. He is obviously a poor judge of character.
Here's what I think of the sellers.
Rich Klein
08-11-2013, 07:37 PM
DP:
It takes one to really know one --
And as you yourself pointed out, you have already had one banishment from these boards, and you are well on your way to a second banishment
Rich
Runscott
08-11-2013, 07:49 PM
I've bought from the seller often over the years, and she has always been very honest and easy to deal with.
I have had quite a few of these light ink Old Mills, and compared to the heavy ink obvious black ones, they do look brown. But the litmus test is to compare them to a Brown Hindu - it will be very obvious that they are not really brown.
I can see where some might think the description is misleading, though I was not the one who wrote it, nor do I believe the author had the intention to deceive. Still, to use the wording, "Let the buyer decide or be the judge" is inappropriate in the context it was employed and it has been changed.
Thank you, Kevin, for bringing this to my attention.
timn1
08-12-2013, 12:25 AM
I always considered the Wentz family ("irishhosta" is Brian and Michael's mom, I think, who handles a lot of their ebay sales) honest, if not always the most fun dealers to interact with. But this one really does seem bogus to me, and their response to the inquiry is appalling. The back of this card does not look like anything unusual to me, and to represent it as such, which they are clearly doing, is sharp practice if not actually dishonest.
ADDENDUM: since Michael W. just posted an acknowledgment of the problem, I retract my comments above. I will leave them as a reference to the earlier circumstances, but they no longer represent my current view. Even so, $2500?
wonkaticket
08-12-2013, 01:26 AM
The description of the lot is still so very misleading to say the least.
You can tell quite a bit of thought was put into the write ups. This was no mislabel mistake. Even more thought was put into the response almost to defend the mistake. To me the write up is clearly trying to accomplish one thing IMO get somebody to purchase on hope, lack of education and trust a $150 card for $2500.Not what I expect from folks at their level.
I appreciate Mike coming here to clear this up. However to me it looks like an attempt to smooth over the situation after being caught hands deep in the cookie jar. Perhaps I'm wrong who knows, but once again buyer beware folks.
thehoodedcoder
08-12-2013, 04:22 AM
I can see where some might think the description is misleading, though I was not the one who wrote it, nor do I believe the author had the intention to deceive. Still, to use the wording, "Let the buyer decide or be the judge" is inappropriate in the context it was employed and it has been changed.
Thank you, Kevin, for bringing this to my attention.
no problem.
quick question though, who did write the description and who wrote the response to my inquiry?
kevin
ullmandds
08-12-2013, 06:21 AM
looks grey to me...def not brown...grey...gray?!
I would not describe the color as gray. It is an unusual shade between black and brown and there are no signs of fading. Perhaps the scan does not adequately depict this aspect of color but it is evident (in person) when compared to a black Old Mill.
ullmandds
08-12-2013, 07:17 AM
Judging color has never been my strongest suit...fine...it's not grey/gray...but it's definitely not brown?!
kcohen
08-12-2013, 07:55 AM
With all due respect to the author, I find the second write-up equally as lame, if not more so, than the first.
K.en Coh.en
thehoodedcoder
08-12-2013, 10:58 AM
I would not describe the color as gray. It is an unusual shade between black and brown and there are no signs of fading. Perhaps the scan does not adequately depict this aspect of color but it is evident (in person) when compared to a black Old Mill.
you didn't address my question. who is responsible for it? and who wrote the response to me?
kevin
wonkaticket
08-12-2013, 12:24 PM
With all due respect to the author, I find the second write-up equally as lame, if not more so, than the first.
K.en Coh.en
+1
"It can be had for a fraction of the price of a true Brown Old Mill"
Right because its not a Brown Old Mill, I can get a fake Rolex for the fraction of the price of a real Rolex.
How many times do we have to see the same game played with this stretch of a color angle, wrong league etc.
It's not brown but not black...like the Movie Spinal Tap..."it's more of a pastel black"....ughhhh
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=123704&highlight=Brown+old+mill+goodwin
mrvster
08-12-2013, 04:38 PM
just read this thread and :eek:
1000 % not brown om, or even close.....I have been dreaming of owning a true brown om:o......I 'm still kicking myself for not getting Dan's a few years ago on ebay(w/ the writing on back).....:mad:
john vanderbeck
Deertick
08-12-2013, 04:42 PM
With all due respect to the author, I find the second write-up equally as lame, if not more so, than the first.
K.en Coh.en
It looks like Yogi's script from an AFLAC commercial.
just read this thread and :eek:
1000 % not brown om, or even close.....I have been dreaming of owning a true brown om:o......I 'm still kicking myself for not getting Dan's a few years ago on ebay(w/ the writing on back).....:mad:
john vanderbeck
well don't kick yourself, but....
Brown Old Mill at a bargain! (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206-SETBREAK-Sid-Smith-SOUTHERN-LEAGUER-OLD-MILL-PSA-AUTH-PWCC-/140991048340?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2F i.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D1409910 48340%26_rdc%3D1&nma=true&si=Zpi1%252Bo9u0sV4q1zQk%252F4A8PV39Vs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)
Yeah, I saw it on ebay. When it went over $40 I gave up. I didn't think it was worth that kind of money.
Just kidding. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
ullmandds
08-13-2013, 09:22 AM
damn Sean...did that auction really happen??????
damn Sean...did that auction really happen??????
I just heard about it this morning.
As unhappy as I am about missing it, imagine how the consigner would feel if he ever realizes what he had.
barrysloate
08-13-2013, 09:32 AM
How did everyone on Net54 miss something like that? Don't many of you go over all these listings with a loupe and a fine toothed comb?
frankbmd
08-13-2013, 09:42 AM
I would not describe the color as gray. It is an unusual shade between black and brown and there are no signs of fading. Perhaps the scan does not adequately depict this aspect of color but it is evident (in person) when compared to a black Old Mill.
Let's have a poll
Is it brack?
Is it blown?
Is it another unusual shade between black and brown?
ullmandds
08-13-2013, 09:50 AM
that is the deal of the millenium!!!! congrats to whoever got it!!!
ullmandds
08-13-2013, 09:51 AM
frank...i think it's brack-ish!
Let's have a poll
Is it brack?
Is it blown?
Is it another unusual shade between black and brown?
Frank, forget about the card in the original post.
Look at the card in post #30
howard38
08-13-2013, 10:39 AM
,
ullmandds
08-13-2013, 10:44 AM
thousands and thousands! I'm not a t206 guy...you'd have to ask them for a more accurate estimate!?
What is the card worth?
I'm guessing that the bidding would easily reach $8,000 and probably go over $10k. After that it depends on whether a couple of us want to really bid it up.
wonkaticket
08-13-2013, 11:52 AM
what is the card worth?
$51.55
thehoodedcoder
08-13-2013, 01:42 PM
holy crap...it sold for 50 bucks?
that is INSANITY.
kevin
barrysloate
08-13-2013, 01:47 PM
So how did everybody miss it?
ullmandds
08-13-2013, 01:49 PM
i missed it...cuz I wasn't looking!!!! Even I'd have bought it!!!!:D
I missed it because my ebay search is for the terms Brown Old Mill.
The title never mentioned brown, so it never showed up in my searchs. :(
thehoodedcoder
08-13-2013, 01:59 PM
that is like hitting the lottery....
i feel like an idiot for not seeing that.
kevin
Cardboard Junkie
08-13-2013, 02:00 PM
I think I may have seen it but saw trimmed and blew right by.....you have to scroll right down to see the back........figured it was just a reg. old mill that was trimmed....but being a pre war seller, wouldn't the seller know what it was? And if it didn't seem inline with its worth, make corrections? Unless there is something less than honorable going on....... who knows? Hell of a deal for the buyer, good for them! Dave.
scottglevy
08-13-2013, 02:12 PM
Oh my goodness!!
That is probably the single greatest deal that I have seen during my entire time collecting prewar cards. What an incredible purchase!
wonkaticket
08-13-2013, 02:28 PM
Oh my goodness!!
That is probably the single greatest deal that I have seen during my entire time collecting prewar cards. What an incredible purchase!
+1
barrysloate
08-13-2013, 03:15 PM
Oh my goodness!!
That is probably the single greatest deal that I have seen during my entire time collecting prewar cards. What an incredible purchase!
+2
CMIZ5290
08-13-2013, 03:42 PM
+2
Barry- got in late to the thread, what purchase?
Barry- got in late to the thread, what purchase?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206-SETBREAK-Sid-Smith-SOUTHERN-LEAGUER-OLD-MILL-PSA-AUTH-PWCC-/140991048340?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2F i.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D1409910 48340%26_rdc%3D1&nma=true&si=Zpi1%252Bo9u0sV4q1zQk%252F4A8PV39Vs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
howard38
08-13-2013, 04:33 PM
,
Cardboard Junkie
08-13-2013, 04:37 PM
Holy cow! Is that negligence on the part of PWCC or is it the card owner's responsibility? If PWCC specializes in sports items I'd think they should notice things like this.
I sort of asked the same question in post 48. The consignee has responsibilty to "get the most" for his consigner. No?
PWCC sells a lot of T206s every month. I think the mistake is their's.
barrysloate
08-13-2013, 05:30 PM
Barry- got in late to the thread, what purchase?
A Southern Leaguer with a Brown Old Mill back sold for the price of a VG-EX common.:(
barrysloate
08-13-2013, 05:33 PM
As far as who is responsible for the error, it's everyone- the consignor didn't know what he had, the seller missed it and didn't mention the back was brown, and all the bidders missed it too. It fell into the T206 Bermuda Triangle.
thehoodedcoder
08-13-2013, 05:38 PM
i'm half tempted to ask, the unthinkable.
do you think that the buyer even knew what he was buying?
is that possible as well? i don't think it is out of the realm of possibility.
kevin
danmckee
08-13-2013, 05:48 PM
PWCC has no clue about pre war baseball cards. That brown old mill hit him in the face and he lost $15K for his consigner. Embarrassing!
Kevin Mize - I missed you at the National,
Please feel free to introduce yourself at any show I am set up.
BMW knows better, their mother irishhosta is posting a faded black Old Mill.
Dan Mckee
Cardboard Junkie
08-13-2013, 05:53 PM
No pussyfootin around with Dan.....I admire that! :) Dave.
danmckee
08-13-2013, 05:54 PM
i'm half tempted to ask, the unthinkable.
do you think that the buyer even knew what he was buying?
is that possible as well? i don't think it is out of the realm of possibility.
kevin
The buyer of the brown Old Mill has forgotten more than most of you zeros will ever know, he knew exactly what he was doing and stole a $15K card.
Comical just like this board!
danmckee
08-13-2013, 05:58 PM
No pussyfootin around with Dan.....I admire that! :) Dave.
You called that Dave, I call it how I see it! Take Care, dan
The card advertised for sale is exactly as described--a shade of color between black and brown.
That's incorrect, Dan. I've been in the hobby for quite a few years and after the many millions of cards I've seen, I can emphatically state that the back of the Old Mill is not faded. Of that much, I am certain. The T206 in question came from an original collection which contained other, tough front-back combinations. None of the cards in the collection were faded or possessed unusual or significant elements of environmental degradation.
The card advertised for sale is exactly as described--a shade of color between black and brown.
danmckee
08-13-2013, 06:01 PM
I respect you Mike, we have had very good dealings in the past, but that isn't even close to a brown Old Mill. Sorry my friend, you are dreaming on this one unless the scan is terribly bad. I own 2 brown old mills and 1 is labeled brown by SGC.
I would stake my life (though not worth much) that your card is not even close to a brown Old Mill.
That being said, you and your brother are still long time friends of mine.
Dan Mckee
I respect you Mike, we have had very good dealings in the past, but that isn't even close to a brown Old Mill. Sorry my friend, you are dreaming on this one unless the scan is terribly bad. I own 2 brown old mills and 1 is labeled brown by SGC.
I would stake my life (though not worth much) that your card is not even close to a brown Old Mill.
That being said, you and your brother are still long time friends of mine.
Dan MckeeI'm not claiming it's a Brown Old Mill, Dan. Read the description.
danmckee
08-13-2013, 06:05 PM
ok I see we are splitting hairs here, I re-read the description. You win. I have been on this squirrel board too long tonight anyway.
take care and good luck with your card
Dan Mckee
Runscott
08-13-2013, 06:05 PM
Bill, if you had a brown, a black and one like Irishosta's, they would all look significantly different from one another. I know this for a fact, as I was involved in a large 'find' about 10 years ago that had a large number of these brown-black Old Mills. We discussed these at that time, board members who had seen legitimate browns told me to compare it to a Brown Hindu - others basically accused me of trying to do what Irishosta is doing. I made the comparison, and it was obvious that while these don't look like black Old Mills, they are not the rare browns. I sold them and they went for the same price as black Old Mills - not $2,500.
I realize that half of you aren't going to understand what I just wrote and the other half won't care, but it is what it is.
Half of us don't understand half of what you wrote, and the other half didn't understand the other half. But don't worry, we promise to compare notes.
Actually, I understood what you wrote and I'm not even into this Old Mill stuff. What you're saying is it's pretty much all voodoo.
wonkaticket
08-13-2013, 07:24 PM
BMW knows better, their mother irishhosta is posting a faded black Old Mill.Dan Mckee
Agree 100% faded standard Old Mill, regardless of the write ups.
As for the other card the buyer is a friend and knew all too well what he was buying. He got an amazing deal and took a gamble on a mislabeled card good for him.
Cheers,
John
thehoodedcoder
08-13-2013, 07:40 PM
some how this thread transformed from its original goal. it was a great detour though.
back on topic...
who wrote the original description if it was not you? and who wrote the response on ebay? your replies lead me to believe it was in fact you.
please address this question.
kevin
tiger8mush
08-13-2013, 07:51 PM
The buyer of the brown Old Mill has forgotten more than most of you zeros will ever know
Comical just like this board!
I have been on this squirrel board too long
Over 1k posts, you sure like to put down the people you hang out with. :confused:
scottglevy
08-13-2013, 09:28 PM
The thing that I find most amusing about the second card is the fact that at least a dozen of the folks on here can't believe that they missed an opportunity to pick up a brown OM at under 10k. It's amazing that all these "pros" - I'll include myself in that category - simply overlooked such an important rareback.
Runscott
08-13-2013, 09:32 PM
Half of us don't understand half of what you wrote, and the other half didn't understand the other half. But don't worry, we promise to compare notes.
Actually, I understood what you wrote and I'm not even into this Old Mill stuff. What you're saying is it's pretty much all voodoo.
Haha. Well, David - I'm betting that you are the only person who read it thoroughly enough to even attempt to understand it. The posts before it and after indicate as much. But, then again, it could be that people are just enjoying an opportunity to pile on (quite often that is a quality of this board) and couldn't care less about having an intelligent conversation.
I did think I understood what you wrote. If you compare all three side by side in person, the difference brown and black & black's variants is clear. Pun intended. If I didn't want a pun, I would have said obvious instead of clear.
Describing color variations in words is by definition a difficult task. Colors are seen not read, and words can only inexactly symbolize colors.
In short "Seeing is believing."
itjclarke
08-13-2013, 10:51 PM
As for the other card the buyer is a friend and knew all too well what he was buying. He got an amazing deal and took a gamble on a mislabeled card good for him.
Cheers,
John
Any chance he'd share his approximate (+/- 10%) max bid.. or better yet, his precise max bid?
I'm not really a back collector and would never have been looking for this, so it doesn't sting too much... but strangly it does sting a little. I'm guessing he was prepared to go much higher, so if I, or anyone else were to know we'd have needed to bid several thousand higher, it may feel a little better.
Regardless, good on your friend.
the 'stache
08-13-2013, 11:24 PM
Over 1k posts, you sure like to put down the people you hang out with. :confused:
He's slumming with us zeros.
wonkaticket
08-13-2013, 11:25 PM
This kind of stuff is good for the hobby every now and then IMO.
Keeps us on our feet, dreaming, hoping and engaged in the search. As painful as it may be for the seller it's good to know that in this hobby filled with hype, mucho ads and talk of SMR's that great items and deals can still be found with a little digging and sometimes a lot of luck.
It shouldn't sting it should be refreshing but that's just my take.
As for the deatils of the purchase the buyer is a humble and nice guy Ill let him share the details should he decide too.
Cheers,
John
P.S. I was told by him today that when I said it was $51.55 there was close to $4 in shipping I didn't take into account. :D
itjclarke
08-13-2013, 11:49 PM
It shouldn't sting it should be refreshing but that's just my take.
As for the deatils of the purchase the buyer is a humble and nice guy Ill let him share the details should he decide too.
Fair enough. It is cool, and amazing for your friend. Especially cool when it was a high profile seller, selling cards from a high profile set and it still slipped through. "Sting" may be the wrong word, especially since I wasn't looking for this type card/back. There are other cards I've missed out on, where the "deal" was $50, $100, $200 that stung a lot more because I was actively searching, even watching and for whatever reason missed out at auctions' end, or eBay's mobile site's timer was 5 seconds off, etc.
I am still curious to know what he bid.. but at the same time, I guess the mystery adds to the coolness.:cool:
barrysloate
08-14-2013, 04:23 AM
"It shouldn't sting it should be refreshing...."
If I were the consignor and found out, it would sting a whole lot.:(
thehoodedcoder
08-14-2013, 05:23 AM
the consigner is now aware of what a brown old mill card is....
they were not beforehand.
kevin
ullmandds
08-14-2013, 05:24 AM
refreshing...like a York peppermint pattie!
Cardboard Junkie
08-14-2013, 10:10 AM
refreshing...like a York peppermint pattie!
Ugh...loaded with sugar....bad for your teeth!:D
JerryTotino
08-14-2013, 12:10 PM
I won the Brown Old Mill Sid Smith.
To answer some of the questions people had:
* I was almost 100% sure that the back of the card was brown.
* I was willing to take a chance even if I was wrong and set my max bid to several thousand dollars higher than the ending price.
I first noticed the card shortly after it was listed and was keeping an eye on it to look for any unusual bidding. This would be a clear indication that others had also spotted the card. The bidding appeared normal with only a few minutes left, but I was still very worried that someone else had seen the card and was waiting to put in a last minute snipe. To my utter amazement and shock I couldn’t believe that the ending price was only $51.50
I actually started to second guess myself because no one else bid up the card, but since the winning bid was so low it really didn’t matter at that point if I was wrong.
Needless to say I was a very happy camper after examining the card in person.
I still have no clue how others didn't spot this card. There are some extremely knowledgeable collectors that I know look for items such as this on eBay. How everyone else missed this card is still mind blowing to me.
A few people have inquired about whether the card was for sale and my answer was no. At this point I want to keep it in my collection.
Thanks,
Jerry
ullmandds
08-14-2013, 12:11 PM
congrats Jerry...great get!!!
caramelcard
08-14-2013, 12:17 PM
Nice pickup Jerry!
I do look for them, but didn't see this one.
Legit T207 brown prints sure don't get this type of attention...
Rob
Jay Wolt
08-14-2013, 12:40 PM
Jerry congrats on your purchase, we are all envious of that grab.
itjclarke
08-14-2013, 12:42 PM
I echo the others, congratulations Jerry, that's an amazing pick up!!
JohnP0621
08-14-2013, 03:03 PM
Great Find Jerry. Congrats. That tops my find from 3 Months ago when I purchased a Raw T206 Tinker Bat off w/ an A Beauty 460 back for $100 . Had it Graded by PSA and it came back a Gr 1 due to minor Paper Loss on the back. It was the only one graded by PSA so I sent it to Goodwin Auction. Final Price at end of Auction was $3800.00. Your Find should Quadruple that and More. Goes to Show that there are still Great Finds out there to be Found.
Regards
John P
CMIZ5290
08-14-2013, 07:31 PM
PWCC has no clue about pre war baseball cards. That brown old mill hit him in the face and he lost $15K for his consigner. Embarrassing!
Kevin Mize - I missed you at the National, you said I was just a computer tough guy and that you would see Scott Forest at the National, yet I was there for 5 days and hungout with Scott and never met you????
Please feel free to introduce yourself at any show I am set up at, I would truly love to meet the person that sabbotaged 21 of my ebay auctions with a bogus ebay ID.
BMW knows better, their mother irishhosta is posting a faded black Old Mill.
Dan Mckee
Danny boy- first of all, I have nothing but respect for Scott Forrest, great guy. He is nothing at all like you, obnoxious, arrogant, disgusting, and incredibly crude (your good points). You can dish it out, but you damn sure can't take it. It's funny how some people on this board find you somewhat humorous, but deep down they have to wonder, "what in the hell is this guy so miserable about?" By the way, no need to sabotage your Ebay auctions, I only placed a bid on one, just one mind you, and your response was "get a f***ing life you asshole, I get sick and tired of you MFers" Anytime you want to meet me, let me know pal....Oh, by the way, have a nice day....
thehoodedcoder
08-14-2013, 09:25 PM
I was trying hard to refrain from posting a negative comment but quite honestly, I have this stupid trait where I'm a straight shooter and I don't hold back on what I think. The comment was dick. This is now like the 3rd time I think, that my thread has been wrecked by the two of you going at it. I believe Dan instigated all of them but I'm honestly not sure.
You show up, make a bunch of worthless comments against the entire community of people and then disappear? Get a life guy.
I have actually removed half of what I was going to say after typing it out, because quite honestly its just not worth the flood of single sentance PMs you are about to send me. The attack mentality doesn't mean you win an argument that doesn't exist.
Leon, can we setup a section on the board for people to put on the punching gloves or something?
Kevin
Runscott
08-14-2013, 09:34 PM
No matter what they say about each other, they are both nice guys. I'm sure they will bury the hatchet when they meet. But I would encourage each to wear chain mail, just in case.
thehoodedcoder
08-14-2013, 09:46 PM
What constitutes being a good guy? Being fair in a deal, treating people with respect?
Maybe they are different people in person?
I guess it would be good at this point to understand this whole thing, so someone please explain it.
Kevin
Cardboard Junkie
08-14-2013, 09:53 PM
This ought to clear things up......https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxtN0xxzfsw:D
Runscott
08-14-2013, 09:58 PM
What constitutes being a good guy? Being fair in a deal, treating people with respect?
Maybe they are different people in person?
I guess it would be good at this point to understand this whole thing, so someone please explain it.
Kevin
Kevin, I don't think I've ever met you in person or talked with you on the phone. Perhaps you are the exact image of your internet persona. If so, there aren't many people like you, but I applaud you for successfully pulling that off.
Despite what Kevin and Dan might say, they are not the same in person as they are on the internet. Hopefully I'm not either.
Runscott
08-14-2013, 10:03 PM
Kevin, my apologies - I think we did actually meet briefly at the National.
thehoodedcoder
08-14-2013, 10:13 PM
Yes. I am the same in person. Sometimes the no filter gets me in trouble but not saying something at all when you feel that saying something is the right thing to do is regretful. I don't really take much personally, so i think its better to say it, hash it out and move on rather than let it linger. I also don't like to dwell on things that are dead.
I try not to live my life that way.
We did yes. Sorry for having to run so fast. I wish I could have stayed and chatted a little longer but I only stopped in to buy something real quick. I had people waiting on me.
kevin
vintagetoppsguy
08-15-2013, 07:08 AM
Putting all of the blame on PWCC is absurd (although I believe they do share in some of the responsibility). This card has passed from many hands and nobody caught it until now.
1.) The owner that submitted the card to PSA should have known what he was submitting and requested PSA to list it as a brown OM on the flip.
2.) The "experts" at PSA should have caught it as well, even if the submitter didn't.
3.) The consigner (and the consigner and submitter may or may not be one in the same) should have known what he had.
4.) PWCC should have caught it and listed it properly (does eBay still have featured listings?).
5.) All of the eyes that looked at it during the auction duration missed the fact that it was a brown OM.
My point is that this card was viewed by many, many people, some in person, some on-line, and all but 1 missed it. The buyer got a steal and congrats to him!
slidekellyslide
08-15-2013, 08:38 AM
I won the Brown Old Mill Sid Smith.
To answer some of the questions people had:
* I was almost 100% sure that the back of the card was brown.
* I was willing to take a chance even if I was wrong and set my max bid to several thousand dollars higher than the ending price.
I first noticed the card shortly after it was listed and was keeping an eye on it to look for any unusual bidding. This would be a clear indication that others had also spotted the card. The bidding appeared normal with only a few minutes left, but I was still very worried that someone else had seen the card and was waiting to put in a last minute snipe. To my utter amazement and shock I couldn’t believe that the ending price was only $51.50
I actually started to second guess myself because no one else bid up the card, but since the winning bid was so low it really didn’t matter at that point if I was wrong.
Needless to say I was a very happy camper after examining the card in person.
I still have no clue how others didn't spot this card. There are some extremely knowledgeable collectors that I know look for items such as this on eBay. How everyone else missed this card is still mind blowing to me.
A few people have inquired about whether the card was for sale and my answer was no. At this point I want to keep it in my collection.
Thanks,
Jerry
I think my biggest worry would have been someone catching it before PWCC sent it out and cancelling the transaction....I'll bet that was an anxious few days before you finally had it in hand. Congrats on what has to be the biggest steal I've ever seen on ebay.
JerryTotino
08-15-2013, 11:11 AM
Dan,
For some reason the thought of the eBay transaction being cancelled didn't even cross my mind, but you bring up a very valid point. I was much more worried about the card being lost in the mail.
The whole thing still seems surreal.
Thanks to all for the kind words and congratulations.
Jerry
slidekellyslide
08-15-2013, 12:06 PM
Dan,
For some reason the thought of the eBay transaction being cancelled didn't even cross my mind, but you bring up a very valid point. I was much more worried about the card being lost in the mail.
The whole thing still seems surreal.
Thanks to all for the kind words and congratulations.
Jerry
It's a good thing you didn't ask them to insure it for $10,000. :D
wazoo
08-15-2013, 12:47 PM
It's going to a great guy. Congrats Jerry, you deserve it.
wonkaticket
08-15-2013, 09:41 PM
I guess it would be good at this point to understand this whole thing, so someone please explain it.Kevin
Kevin, since you ask this goes back to Dan having an SGC 84 Ryan on eBay awhile back that Kevin wanted. Kevin sent what he said was "granted a low ball offer" then Dan in very direct terms told him to pound sand.
Then Kevin started a thread below claiming that Dan was selling trimmed cards and proceeded to rag the very card he tried to buy. The thread then backfired on Kevin as lots of folks said the card didn't look trimmed to them. After the thread went south Kevin asked to have the whole thing deleted here it is.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=158200&highlight=Kevin
Since I was one of the folks who was on Dan's side on this card and supported Dan. Kevin now has beef with me also. From PM's, demands to call him, snide shots, announcments to me via PM that he is "one of the top 5 T206 collectors around" etc. how dare I question him....the usual stuff.:)
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=163953&page=2
More classic Kevin Mize...
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=162343&page=3
That's about the sum of the drama.
thehoodedcoder
08-15-2013, 09:50 PM
i wasn't actually serious and its to late to read the threads in full but it is mildly funny if that is the case because the same thing sort of happened when i made an offer on a psa 7 brown cubs on shirt card and he thought it was low and i said his price was high. i put it to an anonymous vote where nobody knew any of the circumstances behind it and then the shit hit the fan.
can't say i know either well enough to confirm or deny anything between them and id like to think kevin and i are past that disagreement :)
still sort of funny.
kevin
wonkaticket
08-15-2013, 09:59 PM
i wasn't actually serious and its to late to read the threads in full but it is mildly funny if that is the case because the same thing sort of happened when i made an offer on a psa 7 brown cubs on shirt card and he thought it was low and i said his price was high. i put it to an anonymous vote where nobody knew any of the circumstances behind it and then the shit hit the fan.
can't say i know either well enough to confirm or deny anything between them and id like to think kevin and i are past that disagreement :)
still sort of funny.
kevin
No worries, I only posted cause you asked...just showing there are 2 sides on this one. :)