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View Full Version : Heritage putting up junk on their website for all to see. fake ALI


travrosty
08-09-2013, 11:07 AM
http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7085&lotIdNo=111002

why does heritage put up this obvious carp when it is so obvious bad and we have seen them a million times and heritage has pulled them a bunch of times already. Doesn't anyone there know what one of these operation bullpen phase two john olson/chuck wepner signed fake autographs looks like yet.

Why do they keep doing this? It makes them look real bad. Aren't they suppose to be a professional auction house?

Do they really need Steve Spence or Jimmy Grad to tell them its no good. they can't figure it out beforehand? M. Guttierez isn't there and doesn't know this fake by now? Who is there???

Runscott
08-09-2013, 03:44 PM
http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7085&lotIdNo=111002

why does heritage put up this obvious carp...

Which one do you think looks like a carp? sorry but it's just not obvious to me.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRIDFW55VgvJZLCUHbRRu2E9iEBnniGg OVgvLJMwaDe414-aN7P

thetruthisoutthere
08-09-2013, 04:39 PM
Which one do you think looks like a carp? sorry but it's just not obvious to me.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRIDFW55VgvJZLCUHbRRu2E9iEBnniGg OVgvLJMwaDe414-aN7P

Probably the same carp that won't allow me to join the "Planet."

Mr. Zipper
08-09-2013, 04:59 PM
Probably the same carp that won't allow me to join the "Planet."

Doesn't Travis always complain about a certain web site he claims only allows like-minded opinions? Gee, is he doing the same thing on his site? :rolleyes:

thetruthisoutthere
08-09-2013, 05:02 PM
Doesn't Travis always complain about a certain web site he claims only allows like-minded opinions? Gee, is he doing the same thing on his site? :rolleyes:

Exactly, Mr. Zipper....

Thank you.

travrosty
08-09-2013, 05:44 PM
They are the only auction house that spends money to unpack, data enter, photograph, write up descriptions for and list an item that someone can obviously see in 5 seconds that it is one of the most notorious, and well known boxing fakes ever invented.

They should open the box, look inside, close the box, and there I just saved the auction house a lot of money and man hours.

Forever Young
08-09-2013, 07:05 PM
They are the only auction house that spends money to unpack, data enter, photograph, write up descriptions for and list an item that someone can obviously see in 5 seconds that it is one of the most notorious, and well known boxing fakes ever invented.

They should open the box, look inside, close the box, and there I just saved the auction house a lot of money and man hours.

I guess that is their choice.. thank goodness for psa and jsa to save potential buyers. They do a great service to Heritage and the industry. Money well spent. :)

travrosty
08-09-2013, 07:43 PM
Why would you want to pay all those people, to take time out of their busy day, to data enter, photograph, write the write-up for the listing, type it in and put up the listing, only to take it down when all you need is a picture of that type of fake right there in the shipping/rec. area and when it comes in just reject it.

plus the embarrassment of putting it up only to be shown it is a fake over and over and over again. how many now? a lot! Guttierez is on jsa staff for pete sake, he cant find this and boot it off right away?

shelly
08-09-2013, 08:41 PM
My question is. If you and anyone on this site knows it is bad why post it. It is not thank god that psa or anyone would find it to be bad. We all know its bad.:confused:
I am not here to protect Travis. I just can not stand that auction houses put garbage in our face and then make tpa's look good by takeing down items that never should have been there:mad::mad:

travrosty
08-09-2013, 09:52 PM
They don't have that many Ali's coming in. you would think a quick check of things could get this one pulled before they take time photographing it, and writing up a description and posting it on their website. what a waste!

That's all $$$ out the door. why?

Forever Young
08-09-2013, 11:11 PM
They don't have that many Ali's coming in. you would think a quick check of things could get this one pulled before they take time photographing it, and writing up a description and posting it on their website. what a waste!

That's all $$$ out the door. why?

Dude.. you gotta get over it. It is their money to waste. It really is not a big deal at all. If they want to do it this way, they can. They get great prices realized so it really doesn't matter if it bothers a select few. Especially if the few it bothers don't bid on the ACTUAL ITEMS that go to auction anyway. They are not out to fool anyone.. it is just how their process works.
You should thank them. It gives you constant, repetative crap to post on here in attempt to make them look bad and you look like an expert.

Runscott
08-09-2013, 11:18 PM
Ben is right. Travis is in a minority and the situation that he's complaining about was created by the majority, and it is all about money. It works for the TPA's and the auction houses, and the majority of people are happy as hell with it. Travis - you should just feel fortunate that you are in that informed minority, although that can be quite a burden. Just ask guys like Nietsche, Hemingway, Steinbeck, Van Gogh, etc.

Blissfully ignorant people have always helped make the world a happier place. I think I will drink my next beer to them.

Forever Young
08-09-2013, 11:25 PM
ben is right. Travis is in a minority and the situation that he's complaining about was created by the majority, and it is all about money. It works for the tpa's and the auction houses, and the majority of people are happy as hell with it. Travis - you should just feel fortunate that you are in that informed minority, although that can be quite a burden. Just ask guys like nietsche, hemingway, steinbeck, van gogh, etc.

Blissfully ignorant people have always helped make the world a happier place. I think i will drink my next beer to them.

cheers!! :)

johnmh71
08-10-2013, 05:22 AM
Which one do you think looks like a carp? sorry but it's just not obvious to me.

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRIDFW55VgvJZLCUHbRRu2E9iEBnniGg OVgvLJMwaDe414-aN7P

Lol. I spit out my coffee on this one.

GrayGhost
08-10-2013, 06:38 AM
Oh, come now....
;)

thetruthisoutthere
08-10-2013, 08:59 AM
Doesn't Travis always complain about a certain web site he claims only allows like-minded opinions? Gee, is he doing the same thing on his site? :rolleyes:

Steve, do you mean the "Planet" didn't approve your registration either.....

Shocking..............

Not....

thetruthisoutthere
08-10-2013, 10:53 AM
Steve, do you mean the "Planet" didn't approve your registration either.....

Shocking..............

Not....

Steve, it wasn't Travis that didn't accept our registration over at the "Planet." It was probably Mueller.....

Mr. Zipper
08-10-2013, 11:19 AM
Steve, do you mean the "Planet" didn't approve your registration either.....

Shocking..............

Not....

No, I did not apply. I was referring to you and someone else we know who applied and was rejected as well.

Apparently they want everyone singing from the same sheet. That's fine.. it's their web site and they can do anything they want with it. The hypocrisy is that it is the same thing Travis loudly criticizes Cyrkin for (which is a false claim in the first place.)

travrosty
08-10-2013, 03:58 PM
all i know is heritage likes to ban people. people trying to help them. but they dont want to hear it.

Sean1125
08-10-2013, 05:22 PM
Can you explain what is bad about it? Doesn't pop out to me.

Runscott
08-10-2013, 09:06 PM
I am really loving this thread. I like that Travis says whatever he thinks and doesn't go ballistic when we ridicule him. Travis - hope to meet you at next year's National. You have started some very entertaining threads and as a boxing collector, I am grateful for your sharing of your boxing autograph knowledge.

Fuddjcal
08-11-2013, 09:14 AM
all i know is heritage likes to ban people. people trying to help them. but they dont want to hear it.

while I agree with your ASSessment of Heritage, it sounds like you are a bigger, dumber and stupider than even Heritage. They ban you, you ban them, ban everybody...I wish they would ban you from this respected site, slant boy....as you garner about as much respect as Rodney Dangerfield....AND pretty much as humorous in a knumbest of skulls kinda way. Pretty much a confirmed jerk-off, IMHO

thetruthisoutthere
08-11-2013, 01:21 PM
Chuck, next time, please tell us how you really feel................

Sean1125
08-11-2013, 02:24 PM
Can you explain what is bad about it? Doesn't pop out to me.

I don't believe my question has been answered?

Rich Klein
08-18-2013, 04:17 AM
I have learned from reading these boards is Travis never answers direct questions.

Scott Garner
08-18-2013, 04:24 AM
xxxxx

Runscott
08-18-2013, 08:52 AM
......

RichardSimon
08-18-2013, 10:08 AM
. . . . . . . .

travrosty
08-18-2013, 11:32 AM
I am really loving this thread. I like that Travis says whatever he thinks and doesn't go ballistic when we ridicule him. Travis - hope to meet you at next year's National. You have started some very entertaining threads and as a boxing collector, I am grateful for your sharing of your boxing autograph knowledge.



Thank you, and i have learned that if you want to say something, no need for others permission.

I see heritage has even ANOTHER operation bullpen Ali up on the its site right now, so two stinkers stinking it up over there.

thetruthisoutthere
08-18-2013, 01:15 PM
I have learned from reading these boards is Travis never answers direct questions.

Geez, Rich, I guess Travis & Nora Roste, Todd Mueller and Koschal must like you. I see they accepted you as a member of "The Planet."

travrosty
08-18-2013, 03:36 PM
These same pieces show up on ebay and they are pieces of carp. but on heritage, it's no big deal? why?

thetruthisoutthere
08-18-2013, 03:44 PM
These same pieces show up on ebay and they are pieces of carp. but on heritage, it's no big deal? why?

"Are you talking about me again, Travis?"

110679

toybulldog
08-18-2013, 04:00 PM
I see heritage has even ANOTHER operation bullpen Ali up on the its site right now

They're getting worse as they go.

"autographed with one of the most desirable variations of all"

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7085&lotIdNo=45010#Photo
http://www.fighttoys.com/Ali,Muhammad%20non%20authentic%205a%20SR.jpg

travrosty
08-18-2013, 04:17 PM
exactly, the john olson/chuck wepner variation, so desirable!

they truly embarrass themselves. they are not boxing aficionados at all. they don't care.

They put them up without knowing if its good or not.

there is no difference between this and someone on ebay just throwing something up not knowing if what they are selling is good or not. Most will get mad at the ebayer who doesnt know if an autograph is good and just slaps it up there, but they are okay with a major auction house doing it. they actually spent money on a photographer and caption writer who took their time to put this up on their website when all they had to do is take one look at it and throw it in the garbage and save everyone some $$$. Businesses pass these extra operationg costs onto the consumer. It's basic economics.

I am not okay with this.

Runscott
08-18-2013, 05:46 PM
Travis, it really doesn't seem like you are listening to your fellow forum members. The people buying this stuff want something that looks 'close enough' to impress their friends or fill a hole in their collection - the PSA or JSA letter makes it real enough, and buying from a major auction house makes it even more 'real'. It is a symbiotic relationship between the consumer, the TPAs and the customers - everyone involved is a winner, and YOU are not one of the players. It isn't your game.

Big Dave
08-18-2013, 09:59 PM
Well Travis.....keep plugging away.....even if you are that one lone voice in the wilderness....personally, I commend what you do.

Regardless of what paper it comes with, what auction house sells it, or who buys it, a fake will always be a fake, and nothing will ever change that.

I thought this forum was to help stop the sale of forgeries, not condone this simply because one is tired of hearing about it over and over.

Runscott
08-18-2013, 10:25 PM
I thought this forum was to help stop the sale of forgeries, not condone this simply because one is tired of hearing about it over and over.

Dave, who are you rebutting? I've never seen anyone anywhere on this forum, condone the sale of forgeries.

Mr. Zipper
08-19-2013, 07:49 AM
No one has condoned the sale of fakes. It's just that not everyone is committed to waging a crusade against Heritage showing bad items in PREVIEW. The item in question is currently in preview and is scheduled to auction October 24 - 26.

The fact of the matter is these items are pulled before the auction goes live and they are not sold. So the only victim I see is Heritage's image.

Does Heritage have a bad process if they are throwing items in preview before they are properly screened? In my opinion - yes.

Will I spend more than 5 seconds thinking about it? Nope.

I'd rather focus my energy on entities that are actually selling bad items... not just showing them off before they are withdrawn prior to auction.

mighty bombjack
08-19-2013, 07:53 AM
This is the first thing I read on the link provided in the OP:

Note: Heritage Auctions' preview items are posted for the enjoyment and convenience of our clients, as well as to seek feedback from experts before the descriptions and authentication are finalized. As such, these items may not have yet been properly described or vetted. Our auction previews let you watch our auction grow. We post individual lots in our previews as soon as they have a description or a picture, so you don't have to wait until the auction is posted to get a glimpse of the items you want. We are continuing to add and correct information as we approach the auction posting date, so check back here often and Contact us with any comments or suggestions.

I agree that this is not the most efficient business practice, but HA can do whatever they want. I don't see it as damaging to the hobby.

Leon
08-19-2013, 08:35 AM
This is the first thing I read on the link provided in the OP:

Note: Heritage Auctions' preview items are posted for the enjoyment and convenience of our clients, as well as to seek feedback from experts before the descriptions and authentication are finalized. As such, these items may not have yet been properly described or vetted. Our auction previews let you watch our auction grow. We post individual lots in our previews as soon as they have a description or a picture, so you don't have to wait until the auction is posted to get a glimpse of the items you want. We are continuing to add and correct information as we approach the auction posting date, so check back here often and Contact us with any comments or suggestions.

I agree that this is not the most efficient business practice, but HA can do whatever they want. I don't see it as damaging to the hobby.

Please don't get in the way of Travis's crusade to nowhere. Go get 'em Travis, you houndog you!!

travrosty
08-19-2013, 09:38 AM
i suppose when we got heritage to stop putting "auction loa-jsa" on their lots leon, when jsa hadnt looked at them yet, that was an action to nowhere too?

thanks for helping with that by the way. go get em leon!

heritage the only auction house which puts up any old thing that comes in the door first and THEN vetting it later. it's unbelievable. We don't need leon's help to get heritage to do the right thing. we did it once already without his help, too high of a price to pay for some, we got our accounts banned, so please don't get up leon, you are fine where you are.

jhs5120
08-19-2013, 11:05 AM
Kudos to Heritage! :D;)

Exhibitman
08-19-2013, 11:28 AM
We don't need leon's help to get heritage to do the right thing. we did it once already without his help, too high of a price to pay for some, we got our accounts banned, so please don't get up leon, you are fine where you are.

We, we, we; The Group lives!

travrosty
08-19-2013, 12:29 PM
I get private messages, emails from people who tell me they agree but they can't say so publicly for fear of retaliation or retribution. A number of people.

Some are scared of being singled out or banned for having an opinion that differs from the so called established line that some of these big entities like heritage have set forth as what you must believe in order to be in good graces in the collecting community. IF you disagree you have to talk the gauntlet and be on the 'outs'.

I personally have not experienced any auction house that is more unreceptive to customer concerns and unwilling to change for the better of the hobby and the collecting experience like this auction house. We aren't asking them to change the color scheme of their website or something trivial, just asking to do a modicum of research beforehand to keep the fake autographs off of the auction website. They even let these fakes go live for internet auction bidding. Why?

Chris Ivy will you come on here. no he will not, if he does, what a mriacle. he can tell collectors why these hideous autographs go up on the website.

Leon
08-19-2013, 12:56 PM
I get private messages, emails from people who tell me they agree but they can't say so publicly for fear of retaliation or retribution. A number of people.

Some are scared of being singled out or banned for having an opinion that differs from the so called established line that some of these big entities like heritage have set forth as what you must believe in order to be in good graces in the collecting community. IF you disagree you have to talk the gauntlet and be on the 'outs'.

I personally have not experienced any auction house that is more unreceptive to customer concerns and unwilling to change for the better of the hobby and the collecting experience like this auction house. We aren't asking them to change the color scheme of their website or something trivial, just asking to do a modicum of research beforehand to keep the fake autographs off of the auction website. They even let these fakes go live for internet auction bidding. Why?

Chris Ivy will you come on here. no he will not, if he does, what a mriacle. he can tell collectors why these hideous autographs go up on the website.

The problem with you Travis is that you don't listen. Had you read the Heritage statement above, that was posted, you wouldn't have commented about them and the autographs on their site. They want to do it the way they are doing it, vetting after the fact. I also think it might not be the most efficient way but that is the way they do it. For you to comment the way you did means everyone is correct about you, you fail to listen.

Now, if they let auctions go up for bid that aren't good, that's a different story, and they SHOULD be pointed out. And for the record, it takes a ton to get banned from Heritage. I know Chris Ivy quite well and I can safely say that if someone questions something, in a professional manner, then they will not get banned. I think there is a lot behind you being banned...and it's not just because you politely and professionally questioned items in their auctions. Most likely it's because you incessantly pestered their executives and also called Heritage fraudulent, which they aren't. Do they, and have they, made mistakes; absolutely. Do they commit fraud, no. It's all in the way you deliver your message Travis. Almost every single person on this board points out that the way you go about your crusade is wrong. But then, you don't listen so what's the use in pointing it out? Just like this post of mine, you won't listen. Here's a hint...when everyone else is wrong, take a long hard look in the mirror, because "everyone" else usually isn't wrong. It's quite the shame too, because I am sure you are good at your niche of autographs. But many hobbyists don't realize it, or can't get to the good part of your rants, because of the way your message comes across. There are a lot of bad guys in the hobby but Heritage isn't one of them.

Wymers Auction
08-19-2013, 02:08 PM
Should there be some concern that newbies could be using these fakes they see on Heritage to self authenticate fakes on ebay, craigslist, etc? After all, it is Heritage one of the largest sports auctions in the world. I personally think they bring great items to market and do a good job overall, but I think them posting fakes on their site at all can reflect badly on them. I will not however lose much sleep over it and will still bid on card lots that I can use.

Runscott
08-19-2013, 03:10 PM
James, my thought is that having an exemplar (good or bad) is not enough if you don't know 'enough' about autographs to do accurate comparisons.

There are at least four levels of autograph-recognition skills: 1) expert on the autograph; 2) can tell good from bad (most of the time) if given exemplars; 3) think they can tell good from bad if given exemplars, but really can't; 4) admittedly have to have someone else do everything for them.

There is no protecting those in category #3.

Wymers Auction
08-19-2013, 03:16 PM
James, my thought is that having an exemplar (good or bad) is not enough if you don't know 'enough' about autographs to do accurate comparisons.

There are at least four levels of autograph-recognition skills: 1) expert on the autograph; 2) can tell good from bad (most of the time) if given exemplars; 3) think they can tell good from bad if given exemplars, but really can't; 4) admittedly have to have someone else do everything for them.

There is no protecting those in category #3.
I am probably a 4 trying to climb the ladder and hope to skip rung number three if I can keep my balance.

Runscott
08-19-2013, 03:21 PM
#3 is a bad place to be. My best learning experiences have been when I was certain something was bad and it turned out to be a strange variation - I don't mind those experiences or the small amount of embarrassment they cause.

Wymers Auction
08-19-2013, 03:34 PM
#3 is a bad place to be. My best learning experiences have been when I was certain something was bad and it turned out to be a strange variation - I don't mind those experiences or the small amount of embarrassment they cause.

I think having a great outlet like this has been helpful for myself all the squabbling aside I learn a lot on here.

toybulldog
08-19-2013, 04:07 PM
Now, if they let auctions go up for bid that aren't good, that's a different story, and they SHOULD be pointed out. And for the record, it takes a ton to get banned from Heritage. I know Chris Ivy quite well and I can safely say that if someone questions something, in a professional manner, then they will not get banned. I think there is a lot behind you being banned...and it's not just because you politely and professionally questioned items in their auctions. Most likely it's because you incessantly pestered their executives and also called Heritage fraudulent, which they aren't.

From first-hand experience I can tell you that statement is far from the truth. After being involved in a lawsuit concerning the autograph of multiple boxing champion Robert Fitzsimmons...

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit.htm

... I had the audacity and balls to point out a fake autograph of the subject to the "executives" at Heritage.

http://www.fighttoys.com/Fitzsimmons,Robert%20non-authentic%203%20Heritage%20SR.jpg

No incessant pestering or name calling, just indubitable evidence supporting my findings. Sometime afterwards I made a web page with the evidence I presented to Heritage in an effort to explain to my customers why I do not honor or respect the opinions of any self proclaimed third party authenticators...

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit%20Fitz%20wife.htm

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit%20Fitz%20wifeb.htm

... One day I try to log on to Heritage and it states my account has been suspended and I need to contact their credit department. I call the number given thinking my credit card needed updating and was told I need to call another number and talk to a Chris Ivey. I call and there is no answer, I call a second time and again, no answer. I call the original number and the person on the line tells me that my account needs to remain suspended. No reason or explanation given.

Was my account suspended because of a credit issue as stated on the Heritage site or was my account suspended because of the posts I made on my web site?

Some are scared of being singled out or banned for having an opinion that differs from the so called established line that some of these big entities like heritage have set forth as what you must believe in order to be in good graces in the collecting community. IF you disagree you have to talk the gauntlet and be on the 'outs'.

Heritage, is my account suspension just or is it your child-like behavior simply trying to make an opposing opinion go away? Other than my opposing opinions please come on here and post all the evidence you can revealing any frauds, scams, or lies I've committed in this hobby thus far.

Mark O.
Schenectady, NY

travrosty
08-19-2013, 04:26 PM
can heritage answer that.

i am the one who email the executive, namely steve ivy, the boss. and i didnt pester him, i sent one email explaining how the sports dept. was failing in doing a good job, especially in boxing.

you can post the email if you want to. i didnt even name anyones name, never mentioned chris ivy in the email, as to not give the impression i am picking on someones kid. I just mentioned 'sports dept"

what they dont realize is that we tried over and over and over and over again to help heritage the nice way, and they fixed nothing, kept doing the same junk over and over again. basically tells you to get lost and keep walking pal.

they put up a wife signed fitzsimmons that psa certs, now psa has that same autograph on their psaautographfacts page, and i emailed orlando and grad as well as posted here and elsewhere that its bogus, and I show proof.

And it is still up on the autograph facts page as a genuine fitzsimmons autograph. This is what you get from these organizations when they they just dont care and are deaf to the hobby.

They still have the marciano signed letter as an exemplar on autograph facts also. they know its no good, but they arent going to admit they made a mistake.

Also recently Heritage sold an Spinks/Ali scorecard from their first fight, and Heritage said that Spinks gave up his championship belt in order to fight Ali.

Of course not doing their full homework, this is incorrect, Spinks only surrendered the WBC belt, not the WBA belt, which Ali subsequently won in their second matchup in order to be the first 3 time world heavyweight champion.

Now it's funny because I told Heritage of their clumsy error, but I didn't email Chris Ivy of the mistake, I emailed Steve Ivy, the boss and Heritage corrected the description. Now if I am banned, and Steve Ivy was so mad that I emailed him the first time letting him know how the sports dept. leaves much to be desired, why wasn't my email address in his delete/junk file, and why didn't he delete my email as soon as he saw it. He didn't, he read it and go the description changed. This is hardly pestering or abusing senior executives. If helping them out like this and correcting a description due to their lack of knowledge of boxing history is pestering, I am guilty.

Heritage doesn't know what to say. They say what they think you will believe. If you buy their line, then that's thier official line they are going to go with.

travrosty
08-19-2013, 04:37 PM
http://www.psaautographfacts.com/AutographDetail/61/bob-fitzsimmons

http://www.psaautographfacts.com/AutographDetail/68/rocky-marciano

Still up on autograph facts website, or is it autograph fiction? NOt only that, they say that joe frazier didnt change his autograph from the 1960's onward, (incorrect), and that Robert Fitzsimmons sometimes signed as Robt. Fitzsimmons, (incorrect).
Who is in charge over there, I let orlando and grad know and they don't do anything, so they must not be in charge.

Leon
08-19-2013, 04:52 PM
From first-hand experience I can tell you that statement is far from the truth. After being involved in a lawsuit concerning the autograph of multiple boxing champion Robert Fitzsimmons...

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit.htm

... I had the audacity and balls to point out a fake autograph of the subject to the "executives" at Heritage.

http://www.fighttoys.com/Fitzsimmons,Robert%20non-authentic%203%20Heritage%20SR.jpg

No incessant pestering or name calling, just indubitable evidence supporting my findings. Sometime afterwards I made a web page with the evidence I presented to Heritage in an effort to explain to my customers why I do not honor or respect the opinions of any self proclaimed third party authenticators...

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit%20Fitz%20wife.htm

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit%20Fitz%20wifeb.htm

... One day I try to log on to Heritage and it states my account has been suspended and I need to contact their credit department. I call the number given thinking my credit card needed updating and was told I need to call another number and talk to a Chris Ivey. I call and there is no answer, I call a second time and again, no answer. I call the original number and the person on the line tells me that my account needs to remain suspended. No reason or explanation given.

Was my account suspended because of a credit issue as stated on the Heritage site or was my account suspended because of the posts I made on my web site?



Heritage, is my account suspension just or is it your child-like behavior simply trying to make an opposing opinion go away? Other than my opposing opinions please come on here and post all the evidence you can revealing any frauds, scams, or lies I've committed in this hobby thus far.

Mark O.
Schenectady, NY


No promises but I will see what I can find out.

Leon
08-19-2013, 06:02 PM
A few points to update.

Travis- I don't believe your suspension has to do with authentication at all. I think you did something Chris asked you not to do. Since I wasn't there I am not going into it anymore.

Mark- Auction houses can say who they do and don't want bidding in their auctions. Their issue has nothing to do with any specific authentication. I can't really go into it publicly though, since it's a delicate area. It's nothing too egregious, imo, but suffice it to say they don't want you bidding in their auctions. I would imagine if you email Chris he will at least respond, unless he has told you before. And btw, the one piece you are talking about, according to them, got pulled...even though it had a PSA/DNA LOA....and I understand you were thanked for your help with it.

LL

travrosty
08-19-2013, 06:16 PM
Name another auction house that does it this way? none. they told me it is the way big auction houses run auctions. (telling people it is jsa auction loa when they hadn't looked at it yet?) they must be the only big auction house then.

leon, they are clueless at boxing in my opinion. but putting up the fakes ahead of time applies to every genre, not just boxing, but since i know boxing, it really sticks out like a sore thumb. i have contacted many different auction houses over the years, this is the only one that treats people like this. i would get an email from someone and i would say "they treated you like that too, me too!" it was uncanny how they take your suggestion or correction, then condescend and no other auction house does that. they all say thank you, then make the correction, not tell you how big auction houses do business and essentially you can go take a hike, thanks but no thanks, dont call us we'll call you. That's the feeling you get when you try to help this auction house. You feel like you are talking to someone who takes it personally and thinks he is being exposed as not being a big boxing guy when I could care less, I just want it right for the consumers sake so he tries to make you feel small. they sell 800 million $$$ a year in collectibles and can't run it through someone first who knows autographs and boxing history so they can write accurate descriptions and make sure the bad stuff stays off the site? This is exactly why people are mad at ebay, when any piece of carp shows up and they try to contact ebay about it but it can't get taken down.

Those two Muhammad Ali Operation bullpen autographs are still up at the auction house and they know about them. why?

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7085&lotIdNo=111002

http://sports.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=7085&lotIdNo=45010

travrosty
08-19-2013, 06:25 PM
A few points to update.

Travis- I don't believe your suspension has to do with authentication at all. I think you did something Chris asked you not to do. Since I wasn't there I am not going into it anymore.

Mark- Auction houses can say who they do and don't want bidding in their auctions. Their issue has nothing to do with any specific authentication. I can't really go into it publicly though, since it's a delicate area. It's nothing too egregious, imo, but suffice it to say they don't want you bidding in their auctions. I would imagine if you email Chris he will at least respond, unless he has told you before. And btw, the one piece you are talking about, according to them, got pulled...even though it had a PSA/DNA LOA....and I understand you were thanked for your help with it.

LL



Leon, you know nothing about it, okay, that's for sure.


Jonathon told this board a few months ago that it was my email to steve ivy that did it. well, post the email for everyone to see. i got nothing to hide. so now it is something else? chris never told me not to email his dad. i emailed the higher ups because the lower downs didnt care at all, and i never said the words "chris ivy" to the dad, because i didnt want it to be personal, i only said sports dept. so is it the email or not? you don't know, they keep switching their story every month. it's a guessing game. Why did jonathon say one thing, now leon is saying something else, because he heard it from ? and ? and chris won't even come on here, he's too busy with whatever. Come on here chris, post the email, give your side, lets go!

Nice to know you are telling us why we got banned when you even say you dont know for sure, and wont go into it any further, when WE weren't even told by heritage directly why, but we know why, we dont need to hear rumors from you.

thanks for telling mark why he got banned, oh thats right, you didnt. you dont know anything about it. if you know, let's hear specfiics. what a joke. are you their spokesman? now go confer with heritage before you give you next non-answer.

Leon
08-19-2013, 06:54 PM
A few points to update.

Travis- I don't believe your suspension has to do with authentication at all. I think you did something Chris asked you not to do. Since I wasn't there I am not going into it anymore.

Mark- Auction houses can say who they do and don't want bidding in their auctions. Their issue has nothing to do with any specific authentication. I can't really go into it publicly though, since it's a delicate area. It's nothing too egregious, imo, but suffice it to say they don't want you bidding in their auctions. I would imagine if you email Chris he will at least respond, unless he has told you before. And btw, the one piece you are talking about, according to them, got pulled...even though it had a PSA/DNA LOA....and I understand you were thanked for your help with it.

LL



Leon, you know nothing about it, okay, that's for sure.


Jonathon told this board a few months ago that it was my email to steve ivy that did it. well, post the email for everyone to see. i got nothing to hide. so now it is something else? chris never told me not to email his dad. i emailed the higher ups because the lower downs didnt care at all, and i never said the words "chris ivy" to the dad, because i didnt want it to be personal, i only said sports dept. so is it the email or not? you don't know, they keep switching their story every month. it's a guessing game. Why did jonathon say one thing, now leon is saying something else, because he heard it from ? and ? and chris won't even come on here, he's too busy with whatever. Come on here chris, post the email, give your side, lets go!

Nice to know you are telling us why we got banned when you even say you dont know for sure, and wont go into it any further, when WE weren't even told by heritage directly why, but we know why, we dont need to hear rumors from you.

thanks for telling mark why he got banned, oh thats right, you didnt. you dont know anything about it. if you know, let's hear specfiics. what a joke. are you their spokesman? now go confer with heritage before you give you next non-answer.

Settle down Travis. Are you foaming at the mouth? You are writing that way. It is very unbecoming of you.

travrosty
08-19-2013, 06:59 PM
First of all it doesnt have anything to do with you. now you're condescending towards me when no one carbon copied you on any email concerning any of this.

how were you ever in the loop? you weren't.

now trying to shame me because you want others to think i am writing this in an unbecoming way. it's ridiculous. Me and others have valid concerns that go unaddressed by them and we are the bad guys. nice. if that's what you need to believe to go on with your day, fine. Just what does it have to do with you anyway? why don't you start an I love heritage thread? who is stopping you?

thetruthisoutthere
08-19-2013, 07:00 PM
Settle down Travis. Are you foaming at the mouth? You are writing that way. It is very unbecoming of you.

On the contrary, Leon, I think it's quite becoming of Travis, but, of course, I could be full of carp......

110806

Runscott
08-19-2013, 07:03 PM
Very odd situation we have: on the one hand you have JSA and PSA, and the mutually beneficial ($$$) relationship they have with the major auction houses, which requires very little actual autograph expertise. On the other hand you have the real autograph experts right here on Net 54, who have no relationship with the major auction houses, or in some cases, bad relationships.

Then you have the customers, relying for the most part on the auction houses to supply them with autographs. The ones who don't hang out here are basically screwed, or at least have a greater than 50/50 chance of getting screwed each time they make a purchase. The others are either getting screwed knowingly and are happy with it, or are relying on their own expertise and that of the Net 54 experts, to not get screwed.

There has to be a better way.

travrosty
08-19-2013, 07:17 PM
What makes me upset leon is that jonathan comes on here says one thing, then now you say another, and people dont know the truth. can you two guys get your story straght?

Why is it Mr. huggins can come on here, Doug Allen can, Mr. Goldin, but not Mr Ivy? Are you his surrogate, you dont even know any sides of the story. You certainly don't know what was said to me. did you know when Chris Ivy said that Heritage took care of the jsa auction loa premature listings, he said that they were responding to collectors concerns and were proactive, etc. etc. what he didnt say is that I alerted him to the problem 8 months prior and was given the cold shoulder. Why is that?

That wasn't the truth. It just got big enough and enough of a story that they had to do something about it, not because they "cared". They could have "cared" 8 months prior when it was brought up and an article even written about it. but since the article didnt get wide exposure, they felt they didnt have to address it. Then when they felt they had to, all of the sudden they are an auction house who wants to do everything they can to help the customer. you just have to give me a break leon. you know what i write is true. quit taking the blame for them. it's not worth it.

Leon
08-19-2013, 07:26 PM
Travis- Chris doesn't post on message boards. That's his call.

I am relaying what was told to me. He told you not to email any executive. You did. You are banned for that. It had nothing to do with the content of the email. It is the fact you emailed at all. How can you possibly not be able to interpret what I just said?

To be clear, yes you only sent one email. Chris said he made it very clear to you that your account would be suspended if you emailed an exec. You did and your account was suspended.

mighty bombjack
08-19-2013, 07:40 PM
Name another auction house that does it this way? none.

Huggins and Scott had several autos up in their last preview that were redacted after PSA looked at them. I can post a link to the thread on these boards discussing it. I think it makes them look sloppy and wish they wouldn't do it, but I do not view it as egregious or fraudulent in any way.

mighty bombjack
08-19-2013, 07:45 PM
From first-hand experience I can tell you that statement is far from the truth. After being involved in a lawsuit concerning the autograph of multiple boxing champion Robert Fitzsimmons...

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit.htm


Your link does not discuss the outcome of the lawsuit. Why?

David Atkatz
08-19-2013, 07:52 PM
Your link does not discuss the outcome of the lawsuit. Why?It certainly does. The court found for the defendant, and against PSA.

mighty bombjack
08-19-2013, 08:06 PM
It certainly does. The court found for the defendant, and against PSA.

Ah, I had to go back and I now see the link within the link that says as much.

Very glad to see that. The court should very well have found what they did. However, I do feel the need to point out that they did not find anything against PSA. The court merely and rightfully stated that PSA is rendering an opinion, nothing more or less, which is not enough to show that the defendant acted fraudulently.

David Atkatz
08-19-2013, 08:16 PM
You are correct, Wayne. I shouldn't have phrased it as I did.

travrosty
08-19-2013, 09:06 PM
Your link does not discuss the outcome of the lawsuit. Why?


psa didnt show up in court to help bolster the plaintiffs case, they werent required to, but they didnt break their legs trying to get to the courthouse either, if you know what i mean.

all the defendant had to do is show the multitude of prior errors by the authentication company. He showed the court that the opinion of the company, with no reasoning or proof to back up their opinion other than vague terms that mean nothing, was backed by nothing meaningful and their so called expertise should be thrown out, which it was.

but it was not a good day for the validity of psa rejection letters as far as a court is concerned, and if psa would have went there to testify on behalf of the plaintiff, then you really would have seen a show for better or for worse. I would love to question them as to their processes and procedures.

mighty bombjack
08-19-2013, 09:14 PM
psa didnt show up in court to help bolster the plaintiffs case, they werent required to, but they didnt break their legs trying to get to the courthouse either, if you know what i mean.

all the defendant had to do is show the multitude of prior errors by the authentication company. He showed the court that the opinion of the company, with no reasoning or proof to back up their opinion other than vague terms that mean nothing, was backed by nothing meaningful and their so called expertise should be thrown out, which it was.

but it was not a good day for the validity of psa rejection letters as far as a court is concerned, and if psa would have went there to testify on behalf of the plaintiff, then you really would have seen a show for better or for worse. I would love to question them as to their processes and procedures.


But see, this is just it: PSA is the first to say that their opinion SHOULD NOT hold up in a court of law. The dumbass who tried to sue your boy wasted his money twice.

It would do a lot of people in this hobby good to read about that joke of a civil lawsuit.

Big Dave
08-19-2013, 09:59 PM
I assume that person will not be wasting his money on those pretty sorry authenticaters again.

Exhibitman
08-20-2013, 06:57 AM
From first-hand experience I can tell you that statement is far from the truth. After being involved in a lawsuit concerning the autograph of multiple boxing champion Robert Fitzsimmons...

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit.htm

... I had the audacity and balls to point out a fake autograph of the subject to the "executives" at Heritage.

http://www.fighttoys.com/Fitzsimmons,Robert%20non-authentic%203%20Heritage%20SR.jpg

No incessant pestering or name calling, just indubitable evidence supporting my findings. Sometime afterwards I made a web page with the evidence I presented to Heritage in an effort to explain to my customers why I do not honor or respect the opinions of any self proclaimed third party authenticators...

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit%20Fitz%20wife.htm

http://www.fighttoys.com/lawsuit%20Fitz%20wifeb.htm

... One day I try to log on to Heritage and it states my account has been suspended and I need to contact their credit department. I call the number given thinking my credit card needed updating and was told I need to call another number and talk to a Chris Ivey. I call and there is no answer, I call a second time and again, no answer. I call the original number and the person on the line tells me that my account needs to remain suspended. No reason or explanation given.

Was my account suspended because of a credit issue as stated on the Heritage site or was my account suspended because of the posts I made on my web site?



Heritage, is my account suspension just or is it your child-like behavior simply trying to make an opposing opinion go away? Other than my opposing opinions please come on here and post all the evidence you can revealing any frauds, scams, or lies I've committed in this hobby thus far.

Mark O.
Schenectady, NY

Was that a small claims case? The pleadings look like small claims but I don't know that jurisdictions forms.

toybulldog
08-20-2013, 03:19 PM
And for the record, it takes a ton to get banned from Heritage.

I can't really go into it publicly though, since it's a delicate area. It's nothing too egregious, imo, but suffice it to say they don't want you bidding in their auctions.

Leon, two conflicting statements from you? I take it you now realize it doesn't take a ton to get banned from Heritage. A representative from Heritage has posted their nonsensical reasons on this board in the past why at least two other people have had their accounts suspended so why not come back on here and explain why mine has. Yes, it's a delicate area because Heritage would have to fabricate or make something up to justify their child-like behavior in suspending my account.

Heritage rep, come on here and explain. Be honest, be real, you have my permission to post any and all evidence to support your decision. Leon stop band-aiding their asses and let them speak for themselves. Let’s get to know their company a learn a little about their character. I’m open and willing to answer any questions they might have for me.

toybulldog
08-20-2013, 03:20 PM
Was that a small claims case? The pleadings look like small claims but I don't know that jurisdictions forms

Yes, small claims and the amount was $4,500

Leon
08-20-2013, 04:00 PM
Leon, two conflicting statements from you? I take it you now realize it doesn't take a ton to get banned from Heritage. A representative from Heritage has posted their nonsensical reasons on this board in the past why at least two other people have had their accounts suspended so why not come back on here and explain why mine has. Yes, it's a delicate area because Heritage would have to fabricate or make something up to justify their child-like behavior in suspending my account.

Heritage rep, come on here and explain. Be honest, be real, you have my permission to post any and all evidence to support your decision. Leon stop band-aiding their asses and let them speak for themselves. Let’s get to know their company a learn a little about their character. I’m open and willing to answer any questions they might have for me.

Taking what I said out of context is weak Mark. In general I think it probably takes a lot to get banned.

Then after that statement, I saw why Chris said YOU are banned, and I didn't think that was too egregious. That doesn't change the way I feel overall.

travrosty
08-20-2013, 06:10 PM
Taking what I said out of context is weak Mark. In general I think it probably takes a lot to get banned.

Then after that statement, I saw why Chris said YOU are banned, and I didn't think that was too egregious. That doesn't change the way I feel overall.



Maybe you would like to share what that was, Leon. Let others be the judge.
Otherwise it's all baloney.

Forever Young
08-20-2013, 06:40 PM
Personally, I think the question is "why should heritage allow Travis and Mark to bid" rather than why not. All you do is criticize and try and hurt their business(which doesnt work). You know what their process is(nothing to deceive people) yet you bring up and post pre-auction items over and over again. It is a free country(good or you)but they can also chose who they sell to. I would ban you and not give you the time of day either. I really do not see why they need to give any explanation based on your actions here. AT ALL.

Leon
08-20-2013, 07:37 PM
Maybe you would like to share what that was, Leon. Let others be the judge.
Otherwise it's all baloney.


It's all baloney Travis. I am sure Mark knows why, ask him. If not, he can email Chris and find out.
I have already been taken out of context and I am done with this thread.

travrosty
08-20-2013, 09:49 PM
he already asked heritage, they didnt answer him.

no need to quit, it didnt have anything to do with you from the beginning and heritage should not be sharing confidential information about their account holders with you or anyone.

travrosty
08-20-2013, 09:53 PM
Personally, I think the question is "why should heritage allow Travis and Mark to bid" rather than why not. All you do is criticize and try and hurt their business(which doesnt work). You know what their process is(nothing to deceive people) yet you bring up and post pre-auction items over and over again. It is a free country(good or you)but they can also chose who they sell to. I would ban you and not give you the time of day either. I really do not see why they need to give any explanation based on your actions here. AT ALL.



That's fine but that is not the reason they are giving for the banning. they specifically said it was not regarding authentication. They won't tell us the real reason but they tell Leon. nice. Leon, can we cut the baloney and give the reason mark was banned already? He said he didnt know and he called them up and they wouldnt tell him.

the dumb thing is that banning only fanned the fire.

Don't call them pre-auction item as many of those auction items with the jsa auction loa designation were OPEN for internet bidding and had bids on them, and jsa hadnt looked at the items, but they had a jsa auction loa description to the item.

You fell for their line and couldn't get it right either, that is exactly why we continue to bring this up. so the truth can get out about these items. there were bids on these items with the premature auction loa tags.

why does the sports dept. do this? I don;t know. the fine art dept. has it too, a disclaimer that items may not be properly vetted, but i bet you any amount of money that if a picasso or renoir came in, it wouldnt go up unless they were sure it was legit. All it would take is a couple of ridiculous art pieces for the art dept. to look like fools too.

Those Ali signed photos are STILL up and heritage knows they are no good.

Forever Young
08-21-2013, 12:02 AM
That's fine but that is not the reason they are giving for the banning. they specifically said it was not regarding authentication. They won't tell us the real reason but they tell Leon. nice. Leon, can we cut the baloney and give the reason mark was banned already? He said he didnt know and he called them up and they wouldnt tell him.

the dumb thing is that banning only fanned the fire.

Don't call them pre-auction item as many of those auction items with the jsa auction loa designation were OPEN for internet bidding and had bids on them, and jsa hadnt looked at the items, but they had a jsa auction loa description to the item.

You fell for their line and couldn't get it right either, that is exactly why we continue to bring this up. so the truth can get out about these items. there were bids on these items with the premature auction loa tags.

why does the sports dept. do this? I don;t know. the fine art dept. has it too, a disclaimer that items may not be properly vetted, but i bet you any amount of money that if a picasso or renoir came in, it wouldnt go up unless they were sure it was legit. All it would take is a couple of ridiculous art pieces for the art dept. to look like fools too.

Those Ali signed photos are STILL up and heritage knows they are no good.

They will take them down when it flows through their process( if they are bad). It is you who fell into wasting all your time on the same meaningless bs.

Fuddjcal
08-21-2013, 09:36 AM
They will take them down when it flows through their process( if they are bad). It is you who fell into wasting all your time on the same meaningless bs.

First, for Mark to be grouped with Travis is a Travesty for him because the later is the most disruptive, grating, irritating & unfeeling dope you'd ever want to meet. He should be banned on that alone.

Business owners have a right to do business with anyone they want. How's this analogy boy... If I had a hamburger stand and Big, dumb and stupid showed up and said he'd kindly pay tomorrow for a hamburger today, I'd spit my coke on him and tell him to get lost....Just like Heritage did.

shelly
08-21-2013, 10:44 AM
Chuck not sure what you saying:D

110997

slidekellyslide
08-21-2013, 03:38 PM
I was pretty sure I was banned from Heritage...they were not happy with me and the let it be known...I logged in recently and was surprised that I had not been banned. I even bid on an item and won it, so I know for sure that I am not banned. :D

Anyway why is Travis ignoring what Leon told him? He was told he would be banned if he emailed any Heritage execs and he did. That got him banned, so why is he on here telling us that he doesn't know why he got banned?

slidekellyslide
08-21-2013, 03:42 PM
it was uncanny how they take your suggestion or correction, then condescend and no other auction house does that. they all say thank you, then make the correction,

How does Coaches Corner treat you? Do they take the items down? Do they make corrections?

Rich Klein
08-21-2013, 06:52 PM
Coaches Corner finds reps who witnessed George Washington Private Signings and uses their LOA's. We call them the Valley Forgers

RichardSimon
08-22-2013, 06:47 AM
Coaches Corner finds reps who witnessed George Washington Private Signings and uses their LOA's. We call them the Valley Forgers

:D;):p:o:)

JimStinson
08-22-2013, 09:02 AM
The guy in the boat 2nd from right does look VERY suspicious !!!!
_______________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Jim Stinson Buying & Selling Baseball Autographs
stinsonsports.com

travrosty
08-22-2013, 11:24 AM
How does Coaches Corner treat you? Do they take the items down? Do they make corrections?

I am glad you made the comparison between heritage (auction house) and CC (???) and not me.

and actually they have made corrections, believe it or not, as funny as that sounds.

But heritage is an auction house like i have never seen. If you want to get brushed off, try to help heritage. This is my experience.

jhs5120
08-22-2013, 01:21 PM
I am glad you made the comparison between heritage (auction house) and CC (???) and not me.

and actually they have made corrections, believe it or not, as funny as that sounds.

But heritage is an auction house like i have never seen. If you want to get brushed off, try to help heritage. This is my experience.


You know, it's funny that you mentioned this..

I love Heritage, I always have. I frequent it more than eBay, I have spent more than I care to share and I do not mind how they conduct their business in the slightest. As for Coaches Corner, I have only bid on an item ONCE.

Now, I have had only ONE problem with Heritage and ONE problem with CC in my history with both. Surprisingly, Coaches Corner was the one to resolve the issue while Heritage left a sour taste in my mouth:

I bought a 1986 Fleer Jordan PSA 8 from Coaches Corner (stupid, I know). When I got it in the mail I noticed the case had obviously been tampered with. Surprisingly, CC immediately refunded my money and took the item back. I was happy to break even on that one.

I once bought a "Complete" 1959 Fleer Ted Williams set from Heritage. It was NM and I spent over $1,000 for it. A lot for the set. Well, I get the set in the mail and I notice the "Ted Signs" card (a valuable SP) is a counterfeit. I email Heritage and the response I get was rather rude:

BTW the title of the auction was "1959 Fleer Ted Williams High Grade Complete Set (79)"

"The set you purchased was a 79-card complete set and clearly says so in the title. There is no mention of card #68 being included because it is not. As is the case with the short-print ’33 Goudey Lajoie the is considered complete without it because of its scarcity. Did you really think that a sports auction house would not have mentioned the most valuable card in the set? …nor include it in the imaged cards? As a counterfeit, the card has no value and was included just to fill the space and is just an extra card. Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund. We were well aware it was not a real card; we did not mention it as we felt it added no value. For grading, all cards in sheets are reviewed regardless if they are in the pocket alone or sheeted back-to-back. I am sorry but we feel you received exactly what was listed in the title and the description. In the future if you feel a description is in the least ambiguous, both catalog and monthly auctions offer a three to four week bidding period designed to answer any questions."


Stupid me, I didn't realize that "complete" meant "missing the most important card in the set" and that this set is universally known as "complete" while missing the most valuable card! Not to mention comparing 1959 Fleer #68 to the Goudey Lajoie is absolutely ridiculous!

By simply stating "79 cards", not "79/80" or anything like that is completely misleading. I now know there are 80 cards in this set.

Aside from the overall condecending tone, I also was rather insulted by the remark "Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund." Yes, thank you, that is why I was upset, because you had the generosity to include an extra card in your otherwise "complete" set.


For me, Heritage is a love/hate relationship. I find nothing wrong with their auction previews. I do however, find some issues with how they treat their customers. I have placed $100,000's worth of bids, it shocks me that such a small issue is handled so poorly on their part.

Jason

slidekellyslide
08-22-2013, 01:23 PM
I am glad you made the comparison between heritage (auction house) and CC (???) and not me.

and actually they have made corrections, believe it or not, as funny as that sounds.

But heritage is an auction house like i have never seen. If you want to get brushed off, try to help heritage. This is my experience.

I made no comparison, I just wondered how Coaches Corner treats you and if they are receptive to your suggestions. I would think they would keep you much busier than Heritage, but I guess not because I never see you post about them.

Runscott
08-22-2013, 01:39 PM
Jason, did the final bid reflect what the set should have brought if it had included the real #68?

Runscott
08-22-2013, 01:44 PM
Also, the comparison of a single CC experience to a Heritage experience is very misleading. I know plenty of disreputable scammers who ALWAYS politely fix all complaints. What you are missing is they make their money off the people who buy fakes and are too ignorant to complain. You hear people here all the time stating that you don't judge a company by its mistakes, but rather by how it fixes them. Scammers feast on such philosophers.

jhs5120
08-22-2013, 01:48 PM
Also, the comparison of a single CC experience to a Heritage experience is very misleading. I know plenty of disreputable scammers who ALWAYS politely fix all complaints. What you are missing is they make their money off the people who buy fakes and are too ignorant to complain. You here people here all thd time stating that you don't judgd a company by its mistakes, but rather by how it fixes them. Scammers feast on such philosophers.


I 100% agree. Like I said, I have bid on one item with CC and had one issue, while I have bid on 1000's of items with HA, but have had only one problem. I believe CC is the lowest of the low and I did not mean to compare them, it's just, while we were on the subject....

And to answer your question previously asked, yes. I bid an amount I thought was fair if #68 was included.

Runscott
08-22-2013, 03:06 PM
I 100% agree. Like I said, I have bid on one item with CC and had one issue, while I have bid on 1000's of items with HA, but have had only one problem. I believe CC is the lowest of the low and I did not mean to compare them, it's just, while we were on the subject....

I see what you are saying.

And to answer your question previously asked, yes. I bid an amount I thought was fair if #68 was included.

Then that really sucks. I am certain that most of the auction houses try to create descriptions that are misleading (either with text or photos), in an effort to secure more for their consignors. I also believe that they think it's okay, as long as they are technically truthful, and they often use a large grey area when it comes to "technically truthful." That probably sounds like a bold statement, but I've dealt with three clear-cut examples, from three different auction houses, in the last year alone.

I look at it this way - if I buy something with a misleading description, and decided to sell it at some point, would I feel comfortable using the same description used to sell it to me? If the answer is "no", then I got screwed. In all three instance alluded to above, I would have had to be much more honest about the description than the auction houses were with me.

Rich Klein
08-22-2013, 03:15 PM
were the 59 Fleers graded?

HRBAKER
08-22-2013, 04:04 PM
I know exactly "0" collectors who consider the 1959 Fleer set complete @ 79 cards.

Forever Young
08-22-2013, 04:09 PM
I 100% agree. Like I said, I have bid on one item with CC and had one issue, while I have bid on 1000's of items with HA, but have had only one problem. I believe CC is the lowest of the low and I did not mean to compare them, it's just, while we were on the subject....

And to answer your question previously asked, yes. I bid an amount I thought was fair if #68 was included.

Can you send a link to the lot?

slidekellyslide
08-22-2013, 05:48 PM
You know, it's funny that you mentioned this..

I love Heritage, I always have. I frequent it more than eBay, I have spent more than I care to share and I do not mind how they conduct their business in the slightest. As for Coaches Corner, I have only bid on an item ONCE.

Now, I have had only ONE problem with Heritage and ONE problem with CC in my history with both. Surprisingly, Coaches Corner was the one to resolve the issue while Heritage left a sour taste in my mouth:

I bought a 1986 Fleer Jordan PSA 8 from Coaches Corner (stupid, I know). When I got it in the mail I noticed the case had obviously been tampered with. Surprisingly, CC immediately refunded my money and took the item back. I was happy to break even on that one.

I once bought a "Complete" 1959 Fleer Ted Williams set from Heritage. It was NM and I spent over $1,000 for it. A lot for the set. Well, I get the set in the mail and I notice the "Ted Signs" card (a valuable SP) is a counterfeit. I email Heritage and the response I get was rather rude:

BTW the title of the auction was "1959 Fleer Ted Williams High Grade Complete Set (79)"

"The set you purchased was a 79-card complete set and clearly says so in the title. There is no mention of card #68 being included because it is not. As is the case with the short-print ’33 Goudey Lajoie the is considered complete without it because of its scarcity. Did you really think that a sports auction house would not have mentioned the most valuable card in the set? …nor include it in the imaged cards? As a counterfeit, the card has no value and was included just to fill the space and is just an extra card. Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund. We were well aware it was not a real card; we did not mention it as we felt it added no value. For grading, all cards in sheets are reviewed regardless if they are in the pocket alone or sheeted back-to-back. I am sorry but we feel you received exactly what was listed in the title and the description. In the future if you feel a description is in the least ambiguous, both catalog and monthly auctions offer a three to four week bidding period designed to answer any questions."


Stupid me, I didn't realize that "complete" meant "missing the most important card in the set" and that this set is universally known as "complete" while missing the most valuable card! Not to mention comparing 1959 Fleer #68 to the Goudey Lajoie is absolutely ridiculous!

By simply stating "79 cards", not "79/80" or anything like that is completely misleading. I now know there are 80 cards in this set.

Aside from the overall condecending tone, I also was rather insulted by the remark "Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund." Yes, thank you, that is why I was upset, because you had the generosity to include an extra card in your otherwise "complete" set.


For me, Heritage is a love/hate relationship. I find nothing wrong with their auction previews. I do however, find some issues with how they treat their customers. I have placed $100,000's worth of bids, it shocks me that such a small issue is handled so poorly on their part.

Jason

Wow...not sure I'd ever deal with them again if I were you...lots of places to find good stuff out there.

Exhibitman
08-23-2013, 09:18 AM
I know plenty of disreputable scammers who ALWAYS politely fix all complaints.

So true. I've dealt with quite a few fraudsters in my practice and the true pros will always quickly and quietly settle the dispute. They know that there are other suckers out there and it doesn't pay in the end to slug it out with the 10% who actually complain.

travrosty
08-23-2013, 05:43 PM
You know, it's funny that you mentioned this..

I love Heritage, I always have. I frequent it more than eBay, I have spent more than I care to share and I do not mind how they conduct their business in the slightest. As for Coaches Corner, I have only bid on an item ONCE.

Now, I have had only ONE problem with Heritage and ONE problem with CC in my history with both. Surprisingly, Coaches Corner was the one to resolve the issue while Heritage left a sour taste in my mouth:

I bought a 1986 Fleer Jordan PSA 8 from Coaches Corner (stupid, I know). When I got it in the mail I noticed the case had obviously been tampered with. Surprisingly, CC immediately refunded my money and took the item back. I was happy to break even on that one.

I once bought a "Complete" 1959 Fleer Ted Williams set from Heritage. It was NM and I spent over $1,000 for it. A lot for the set. Well, I get the set in the mail and I notice the "Ted Signs" card (a valuable SP) is a counterfeit. I email Heritage and the response I get was rather rude:

BTW the title of the auction was "1959 Fleer Ted Williams High Grade Complete Set (79)"

"The set you purchased was a 79-card complete set and clearly says so in the title. There is no mention of card #68 being included because it is not. As is the case with the short-print ’33 Goudey Lajoie the is considered complete without it because of its scarcity. Did you really think that a sports auction house would not have mentioned the most valuable card in the set? …nor include it in the imaged cards? As a counterfeit, the card has no value and was included just to fill the space and is just an extra card. Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund. We were well aware it was not a real card; we did not mention it as we felt it added no value. For grading, all cards in sheets are reviewed regardless if they are in the pocket alone or sheeted back-to-back. I am sorry but we feel you received exactly what was listed in the title and the description. In the future if you feel a description is in the least ambiguous, both catalog and monthly auctions offer a three to four week bidding period designed to answer any questions."


Stupid me, I didn't realize that "complete" meant "missing the most important card in the set" and that this set is universally known as "complete" while missing the most valuable card! Not to mention comparing 1959 Fleer #68 to the Goudey Lajoie is absolutely ridiculous!

By simply stating "79 cards", not "79/80" or anything like that is completely misleading. I now know there are 80 cards in this set.

Aside from the overall condecending tone, I also was rather insulted by the remark "Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund." Yes, thank you, that is why I was upset, because you had the generosity to include an extra card in your otherwise "complete" set.


For me, Heritage is a love/hate relationship. I find nothing wrong with their auction previews. I do however, find some issues with how they treat their customers. I have placed $100,000's worth of bids, it shocks me that such a small issue is handled so poorly on their part.

Jason


this is the type of email i have received.

the "you must be stupid" so bite me -type email. i was so stupid i didnt know how a big auction house works so they were forced to do it this way, put up the junk beforehand without checking out the items first. this is what they told me in not a nice way. very condescending but i think as it regards the sports department it comes from the top as a corporate attitude by the leader of that dept., that's their style.

In comparison I have never gotten an email, phone call from other auction houses that are like that, like Goldin or Leland's, which I find very professional, and it concerned me that Heritage would send out such unprofessional emails, so I stopped helping them because really what's the use if they treat customers like that?

shelly
08-23-2013, 05:59 PM
Travis, like I posted on the other thread. Give it a week. Or just post ETC. We will all understand.:rolleyes:

travrosty
08-23-2013, 06:28 PM
Thank you, I'm okay, i am still waiting for them to come on here and explain, but like Jerry Glanville, former coach of the Atlanta Falcons, leaving tickets for Elvis at the will call window, it's a long shot.

earlywynnfan
08-23-2013, 06:35 PM
Thank you, I'm okay, i am still waiting for them to come on here and explain, but like Jerry Glanville, former coach of the Atlanta Falcons, leaving tickets for Elvis at the will call window, it's a long shot.

Or, to use another analogy, you have as much chance of Heritage getting back to you as we have of Nash doing an expose on the Cooperstown Forger!

Ken

shelly
08-23-2013, 07:25 PM
Or, to use another analogy, you have as much chance of Heritage getting back to you as we have of Nash doing an expose on the Cooperstown Forger!

Ken

When you can prove that he is the Cooperstown forger you will be a hero. Until that time look at who works for Heritage and say HOF.:D
I just dont like saying things about people that you have no idea if it is true or not. Your analogy sucks.

slidekellyslide
08-23-2013, 09:36 PM
When you can prove that he is the Cooperstown forger you will be a hero. Until that time look at who works for Heritage and say HOF.:D
I just dont like saying things about people that you have no idea if it is true or not. Your analogy sucks.

Where did he say that Nash was the Cooperstown forger? He simply said that the odds were the same as Nash doing an expose on the Cooperstown forger. It is interesting that Mr Nash has never even mentioned it on his blog, don't you think?

jgmp123
08-24-2013, 08:00 AM
Away from the the original topic of this thread, I do find it pretty unsettling that Heritage would share information about a registered bidder with Leon. I am a registered bidder and active here and I certainly hope that my information would remain protected. Even something as simple as why Travis was banned is still info that should not have been shared with a third party.

thetruthisoutthere
08-24-2013, 08:00 AM
Where did he say that Nash was the Cooperstown forger? He simply said that the odds were the same as Nash doing an expose on the Cooperstown forger. It is interesting that Mr Nash has never even mentioned it on his blog, don't you think?

Ditto. ZERO chance Nash writes an expose' on the Cooperstown forger.

shelly
08-24-2013, 08:55 AM
What did that mention of Nash have anything to do but get you guys started again. It has been almost a month.
Dan dont be a total ass. You know exactly what Ken meant.:mad:

thecatspajamas
08-24-2013, 09:39 AM
Away from the the original topic of this thread, I do find it pretty unsettling that Heritage would share information about a registered bidder with Leon. I am a registered bidder and active here and I certainly hope that my information would remain protected. Even something as simple as why Travis was banned is still info that should not have been shared with a third party.

Technically, he is no longer a registered bidder, but I realize that wasn't the point of your statement. Keep in mind that Travis has been on here almost daily trumpeting how he was banned from bidding, giving his take on the reasons why, and daring Heritage to come on here and say otherwise. Heritage "sharing information" with Leon in this case is just them giving their side of the story. It's not like they also gave Leon his credit card number, home address, social security number, etc. I would consider it more along the lines of Leon fact-checking a story than Heritage purposely leaking a bidder's confidential information.

jhs5120
08-24-2013, 10:02 AM
I would just like to mention that Chris Ivy reached out to me personally and apologized for the email I posted above. He was more than helpful and was able to rectify the situation entirely.

Jason

shelly
08-24-2013, 10:12 AM
Where did he say that Nash was the Cooperstown forger? He simply said that the odds were the same as Nash doing an expose on the Cooperstown forger. It is interesting that Mr Nash has never even mentioned it on his blog, don't you think?

Gee, you think where all dumb on this site. When do you ever come over here except to go after Nash.or anyone that questions the auction houses you love so dearly. I dont think for one second that there is on person that could not read into that message. If not, then they still must think the Wagner card is not trimmed.:)

shelly
08-24-2013, 10:27 AM
Technically, he is no longer a registered bidder, but I realize that wasn't the point of your statement. Keep in mind that Travis has been on here almost daily trumpeting how he was banned from bidding, giving his take on the reasons why, and daring Heritage to come on here and say otherwise. Heritage "sharing information" with Leon in this case is just them giving their side of the story. It's not like they also gave Leon his credit card number, home address, social security number, etc. I would consider it more along the lines of Leon fact-checking a story than Heritage purposely leaking a bidder's confidential information.

Lance, not the point. If they want to say why Travis is out. They should do it. It is not up to Leon or anyone else to answere for them.

thetruthisoutthere
08-24-2013, 10:34 AM
If Travis wants to play the martyr, who are we to get in his way.

David Atkatz
08-24-2013, 01:22 PM
Gee, you think where all dumb on this site. When do you ever come over here except to go after Nash.or anyone that questions the auction houses you love so dearly. I dont think for one second that there is on person that could not read into that message. If not, then they still must think the Wagner card is not trimmed.:)WTF, Shelly! Dan posts here all the time--he's always sharing his collection and his new acquisitions.

(On the other hand, you've been doing little but fu*kin' up, lately. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?)

thetruthisoutthere
08-24-2013, 03:12 PM
WTF, Shelly! Dan posts here all the time--he's always sharing his collection and his new acquisitions.

(On the other hand, you've been doing little but fu*kin' up, lately. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?)

What?

"Doing little but fu*ckin' up lately?"

Please explain.

slidekellyslide
08-24-2013, 06:51 PM
Gee, you think where all dumb on this site. When do you ever come over here except to go after Nash.or anyone that questions the auction houses you love so dearly. I dont think for one second that there is on person that could not read into that message. If not, then they still must think the Wagner card is not trimmed.:)

Eh, whatever, I post pickups in the monthly threads, ask questions about autographs, et cetera and I don't even really consider myself an autograph collector. As for the auction houses I love, post some examples of this "love" please. I may not be able to contribute in the same way you are, but I am here contributing more than just talk about your buddy Peter Nash.

travrosty
08-24-2013, 08:27 PM
There was no fact checking if leon isnt willing to share the "reason" heritage gave either. if its still a secret to everyone except heritage and leon, then why does leon need to know? I too find it in bad taste to share account holder info. I still don't know the real reason i was banned, so leon gets to know? why not tell me?

thetruthisoutthere
08-24-2013, 08:50 PM
There was no fact checking if leon isnt willing to share the "reason" heritage gave either. if its still a secret to everyone except heritage and leon, then why does leon need to know? I too find it in bad taste to share account holder info. I still don't know the real reason i was banned, so leon gets to know? why not tell me?

I guess the same goes for "The Planet."

My registration was refused, but I'd sure like to know why Mrs. Roste refused me being a member.....

slidekellyslide
08-24-2013, 08:55 PM
There was no fact checking if leon isnt willing to share the "reason" heritage gave either. if its still a secret to everyone except heritage and leon, then why does leon need to know? I too find it in bad taste to share account holder info. I still don't know the real reason i was banned, so leon gets to know? why not tell me?

You were told not to email any execs at Heritage and you did...that got you banned. Either your comprehension sucks or you are being obtuse. Which is it?

shelly
08-24-2013, 11:44 PM
Eh, whatever, I post pickups in the monthly threads, ask questions about autographs, et cetera and I don't even really consider myself an autograph collector. As for the auction houses I love, post some examples of this "love" please. I may not be able to contribute in the same way you are, but I am here contributing more than just talk about your buddy Peter Nash.


Dan, you are as big of an ass as I thought. No one on this thread is my buddy except three people who I respect. By the way when you are you twenty you have buddy"s when your 73 you have friends. When your my age you also knwo when some one is really full of shit.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

travrosty
08-24-2013, 11:54 PM
You were told not to email any execs at Heritage and you did...that got you banned. Either your comprehension sucks or you are being obtuse. Which is it?

I was not told anything of the sort. CEO's and executives are there for the customers, COMPLAINTS AND ALL. I only sent one email to the chairman, it wasn't a campaign like jonathan said. So they aren't being forthright. You don't know anything about it, were you there? You and Leon are now spokesmen for Heritage?

funny I got banned around the same time as the other chaps. Mark O. didn't email the execs, what did he do? He was asked to call Heritage, and he got brushed off, with no explanation. You got a convenient excuse for him too?

travrosty
08-25-2013, 12:00 AM
Lance, not the point. If they want to say why Travis is out. They should do it. It is not up to Leon or anyone else to answere for them.

This is exactly right. I can talk about what I want about Heritage, I am the customer, but they are the professional company. I can share what I say to my doctor with anyone, but they can't share what they say to me with anyone at all. If Leon goes to the pharmacy and they refuse to fill his prescription, he can come here and ask why and say what he wants, but I as a third party, moderator or not, can't go to his pharmacist and ask why and get an explanation from the pharmacist as to why Leon's prescription was refused.

IF you say that they only relayed an explanation as to why I was banned to Leon, not customer information like credit cards, etc. then would it be okay if an auction house told a third party about what lots you bid on, that you bid on three mantles, a gretzky, and an ernie banks? Is that okay? That's not personal identification information? When does it end. We all know that no other auction house would do what Heritage does, talk to others about account holders. Ask around, right now, ask the other auction guys here if they would do that.

It's called being a professional company, they should try it sometime.

Mr. Zipper
08-25-2013, 06:34 AM
I guess the same goes for "The Planet."

My registration was refused, but I'd sure like to know why Mrs. Roste refused me being a member.....

What?!? No transparency?!? No free and open exchange of ideas?!? No detailed explanations of why determinations were made?

You mean Travis and his pals do he same thing they loudly and chronically criticize others for? :eek:

Say it ain't so.

thetruthisoutthere
08-25-2013, 07:16 AM
What?!? No transparency?!? No free and open exchange of ideas?!? No detailed explanations of why determinations were made?

You mean Travis and his pals do he same thing they loudly and chronically criticize others for? :eek:

Say it ain't so.

Yep, it is so.

I was not given a reason why my membership was rejected by Mrs. Nora Roste.

No explanation. Nothing.

slidekellyslide
08-25-2013, 07:28 AM
Dan, you are as big of an ass as I thought. No one on this thread is my buddy except three people who I respect. By the way when you are you twenty you have buddy"s when your 73 you have friends. When your my age you also knwo when some one is really full of shit.:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Sorry, I meant your friend, Peter Nash.

Runscott
08-25-2013, 08:44 AM
Yep, it is so.

I was not given a reason why my membership was rejected by Mrs. Nora Roste.

No explanation. Nothing.

They already have Todd Mueller - they don't need any more guys who know autographs.

thetruthisoutthere
08-25-2013, 08:46 AM
They already have Todd Mueller - they don't need any more guys who know autographs.

Scott, that seriously cracked me up!!!!!

shelly
08-25-2013, 11:21 AM
Sorry, I meant your friend, Peter Nash.

I really want to know why you would think that Nash is my friend. It would be like me saying Travis is like a brother to you. I read what he writes and believe a lot of what he says is true. If that makes him my friend then you use that word very loosely. Friends are people that I have full trust in. Like when you write about how great the auction houses are.:rolleyes:

slidekellyslide
08-25-2013, 04:58 PM
I really want to know why you would think that Nash is my friend. It would be like me saying Travis is like a brother to you. I read what he writes and believe a lot of what he says is true. If that makes him my friend then you use that word very loosely. Friends are people that I have full trust in. Like when you write about how great the auction houses are.:rolleyes:

Eh, whatever...I could be mean, but you're a pretty easy target so I won't.

shelly
08-25-2013, 08:04 PM
Eh, whatever...I could be mean, but you're a pretty easy target so I won't.

Really, please do mention that over 14 years ago I was arrested for forgery. I have never said anything but that fact. That is why I trust just a few people and you are so petty that you would never be one them.:
I always find it amazing when people have nothing to say excepet bull shit that is how you attack.
You found it really discusting that Nash would bring up Leon. You made it clear whether you said it or not. At least Nash had the balls to say it.
Your are a very small person.

D.P.Johnson
08-25-2013, 08:24 PM
Really, please do mention that over 14 years ago I was arrested for forgery. I have never said anything but that fact. That is why I trust just a few people and you are so petty that you would never be one them.:
I always find it amazing when people have nothing to say excepet bull shit that is how you attack.
You found it really discusting that Nash would bring up Leon. You made it clear whether you said it or not. At least Nash had the balls to say it.
Your are a very small person.

Wow, I kinda remember that. "Shelly's Cards" or something like that from Southern California??? That's you??? Your the guy who convicted of selling forged autographs and did some prison time???

shelly
08-25-2013, 08:43 PM
Wow, I kinda remember that. "Shelly's Cards" or something like that from Southern California??? That's you??? Your the guy who convicted of selling forged autographs and did some prison time???

Yes, and you are problably the only person on this site that did not know it. Know that you do does that change anything.:confused:

D.P.Johnson
08-25-2013, 09:04 PM
Yes, and you are problably the only person on this site that did not know it. Know that you do does that change anything.:confused:

Well, I doubt I'm the only person who didn't know, but I am pretty new to the board. As far as "changing anything" goes, I'm not sure what you mean by that...

David Atkatz
08-25-2013, 09:09 PM
Don't worry about it, Dan. Shelly's got a great big chip on his shoulder regarding his past.

shelly
08-25-2013, 09:16 PM
Well, I doubt I'm the only person who didn't know, but I am pretty new to the board. As far as "changing anything" goes, I'm not sure what you mean by that...

Dan not a thing. I just noticed that you just came on to the board. Most everyone knows my past Did not mean to jump down your throat.:)

D.P.Johnson
08-25-2013, 10:13 PM
Dan not a thing. I just noticed that you just came on to the board. Most everyone knows my past Did not mean to jump down your throat.:)

Not a problem Shelly. I spent the vast majority of my adult life dealing with convicted felons whose crimes were much more serious than some small time white-color stuff. I can pretty much take anything that comes my way...

slidekellyslide
08-25-2013, 10:45 PM
Really, please do mention that over 14 years ago I was arrested for forgery. I have never said anything but that fact. That is why I trust just a few people and you are so petty that you would never be one them.:
I always find it amazing when people have nothing to say excepet bull shit that is how you attack.
You found it really discusting that Nash would bring up Leon. You made it clear whether you said it or not. At least Nash had the balls to say it.
Your are a very small person.

Well, I wasn't going to be that mean...I was thinking more along the lines of your obvious comprehension problems and the fact that you continually have to apologize for misunderstanding. You jumped down my throat a month or so back for something you totally misunderstood, and I'm guessing your continuing animosity towards me is because you still don't understand that I wasn't putting you down.

As far as Nash goes, I was hammering him in this forum long before he mentioned Leon in one of his blog posts. Your Pavlovian defense of Nash is why I call him your buddy. It's quite obvious you guys are pals, you don't have to deny it.

shelly
08-25-2013, 11:18 PM
Well, I wasn't going to be that mean...I was thinking more along the lines of your obvious comprehension problems and the fact that you continually have to apologize for misunderstanding. You jumped down my throat a month or so back for something you totally misunderstood, and I'm guessing your continuing animosity towards me is because you still don't understand that I wasn't putting you down.

As far as Nash goes, I was hammering him in this forum long before he mentioned Leon in one of his blog posts. Your Pavlovian defense of Nash is why I call him your buddy. It's quite obvious you guys are pals, you don't have to deny it.

Dan dont you think you react to everything that Nash says just like a puppy when you ring the bell for food. I would rather have a problem tying to comprehen what you say than be a lap dog for all your auction houses. I have never met Peter Nash but I find him a lot more entertaining than you.
I apoligize when I am wrong. That is why you dont see me saying I am sorry about anything I say about you.

travrosty
08-25-2013, 11:42 PM
It's common to get slammed on here for liking anything hos has on their site. they jump on you for being a pal or buddy or whatever of hos or nash, this is to deflect from the stories he's uncovered, stories you won't find in the hobby publications, the stories they don't dare run. Trying to paint someone guilty by association or trying to embarrass someone to stop information or criticism from getting out is deplorable and a version of that is what they did in the 1950's on a much bigger scale and you know what it was called. It is practiced with one of its goals to stop or restrict dissent/criticism.

If someone doesn't like hos or nash, fine, no problem, but to point to others and say you can't read, believe, enjoy, or agree with what is posted less you be the "bad guy" is ridiculous and it should stop. I disagree with several on this board, but never tell them they can't be acquaintances or friends with whoever they want, i never tell them shouldn't believe whatever they want, I only tell them when I believe they are wrong or disagree with their opinion. But hos touches a nerve so you get the firing squad every time you mention them.

What I don't understand is if people have a problem with what HOS writes, simply rebut and provide your argument against what he writes if what he is writing is incorrect. When I call out a boxing autograph and say that abc or xyz wrongly authenticated something, I provide proof, show side by side and dissect, analyze the differences to prove my point, but I don't see anti-hos people doing that. It is always shoot the messenger.

Rich Klein
08-26-2013, 05:24 AM
You know, it's funny that you mentioned this..

I love Heritage, I always have. I frequent it more than eBay, I have spent more than I care to share and I do not mind how they conduct their business in the slightest. As for Coaches Corner, I have only bid on an item ONCE.

Now, I have had only ONE problem with Heritage and ONE problem with CC in my history with both. Surprisingly, Coaches Corner was the one to resolve the issue while Heritage left a sour taste in my mouth:

I bought a 1986 Fleer Jordan PSA 8 from Coaches Corner (stupid, I know). When I got it in the mail I noticed the case had obviously been tampered with. Surprisingly, CC immediately refunded my money and took the item back. I was happy to break even on that one.

I once bought a "Complete" 1959 Fleer Ted Williams set from Heritage. It was NM and I spent over $1,000 for it. A lot for the set. Well, I get the set in the mail and I notice the "Ted Signs" card (a valuable SP) is a counterfeit. I email Heritage and the response I get was rather rude:

BTW the title of the auction was "1959 Fleer Ted Williams High Grade Complete Set (79)"

"The set you purchased was a 79-card complete set and clearly says so in the title. There is no mention of card #68 being included because it is not. As is the case with the short-print ’33 Goudey Lajoie the is considered complete without it because of its scarcity. Did you really think that a sports auction house would not have mentioned the most valuable card in the set? …nor include it in the imaged cards? As a counterfeit, the card has no value and was included just to fill the space and is just an extra card. Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund. We were well aware it was not a real card; we did not mention it as we felt it added no value. For grading, all cards in sheets are reviewed regardless if they are in the pocket alone or sheeted back-to-back. I am sorry but we feel you received exactly what was listed in the title and the description. In the future if you feel a description is in the least ambiguous, both catalog and monthly auctions offer a three to four week bidding period designed to answer any questions."


Stupid me, I didn't realize that "complete" meant "missing the most important card in the set" and that this set is universally known as "complete" while missing the most valuable card! Not to mention comparing 1959 Fleer #68 to the Goudey Lajoie is absolutely ridiculous!

By simply stating "79 cards", not "79/80" or anything like that is completely misleading. I now know there are 80 cards in this set.

Aside from the overall condecending tone, I also was rather insulted by the remark "Including an extra card is not grounds for a refund." Yes, thank you, that is why I was upset, because you had the generosity to include an extra card in your otherwise "complete" set.


For me, Heritage is a love/hate relationship. I find nothing wrong with their auction previews. I do however, find some issues with how they treat their customers. I have placed $100,000's worth of bids, it shocks me that such a small issue is handled so poorly on their part.

Jason

by a TPG. The reason I asked, was out of curiosity, I went to the Heritage Site this morning to check on your story. They had 85 completed auctions for 1959 Ted WIlliams and the only items which may have been over $1000 were sets which were in TPG holders. If so, then a higher price makes sense.

Here is a link to Heritage's 1959 Ted Wililams listings. You do need to sign in and be registered.

http://www.ha.com/c/search-results.zx?Nty=1&Ntk=SI_Titles&N=0+790+231&No=48&Ntt=1959+fleer+ted+williams

And I will tell you that in old sets and modern sets the SP card is not always considered part of the complete set. Instead that becomes part of a master set.

Rich

slidekellyslide
08-26-2013, 05:51 AM
trying to embarrass someone to stop information or criticism from getting out is deplorable and a version of that is what they did in the 1950's on a much bigger scale and you know what it was called. It is practiced with one of its goals to stop or restrict dissent/criticism.


This is hilarious coming from someone who does not allow any dissent at all on his own website. Why won't you allow Chris or Steve to sign up for your forum? You ever had a post on Net54 deleted? Have you ever been silenced here? You've overplayed your McCarthyism card, time to turn to Nazi Germany.

earlywynnfan
08-26-2013, 05:54 AM
It's common to get slammed on here for liking anything hos has on their site. they jump on you for being a pal or buddy or whatever of hos or nash, this is to deflect from the stories he's uncovered, stories you won't find in the hobby publications, the stories they don't dare run. Trying to paint someone guilty by association or trying to embarrass someone to stop information or criticism from getting out is deplorable and a version of that is what they did in the 1950's on a much bigger scale and you know what it was called. It is practiced with one of its goals to stop or restrict dissent/criticism.

If someone doesn't like hos or nash, fine, no problem, but to point to others and say you can't read, believe, enjoy, or agree with what is posted less you be the "bad guy" is ridiculous and it should stop. I disagree with several on this board, but never tell them they can't be acquaintances or friends with whoever they want, i never tell them shouldn't believe whatever they want, I only tell them when I believe they are wrong or disagree with their opinion. But hos touches a nerve so you get the firing squad every time you mention them.

What I don't understand is if people have a problem with what HOS writes, simply rebut and provide your argument against what he writes if what he is writing is incorrect. When I call out a boxing autograph and say that abc or xyz wrongly authenticated something, I provide proof, show side by side and dissect, analyze the differences to prove my point, but I don't see anti-hos people doing that. It is always shoot the messenger.

Travis, do you refute the White Betsy columns? They were laid out very convincingly with proof.

Ken

slidekellyslide
08-26-2013, 05:59 AM
Dan dont you think you react to everything that Nash says just like a puppy when you ring the bell for food. I would rather have a problem tying to comprehen what you say than be a lap dog for all your auction houses. I have never met Peter Nash but I find him a lot more entertaining than you.
I apoligize when I am wrong. That is why you dont see me saying I am sorry about anything I say about you.

You still have provided not one single cite proving I'm a lap dog for the auction houses. Richard Simon tried this tactic on me too until I provided links of my criticism of pretty much all of them...he apologized for being wrong.

HRBAKER
08-26-2013, 06:50 AM
Shelly,
I have been here a long time, a long time.
Dan is NO lap dog for the auction houses.

Jeff

And FWIW it's worth, until Mr. Nash deals with his own transgressions in the same way he deals with everyone else's he will be viewed with a jaded eye by many, many people. That doesn't make what he says right, wrong or indifferent - it's just the way it is.

Runscott
08-26-2013, 08:09 AM
they jump on you for being a pal or buddy or whatever of hos or nash, this is to deflect from the stories he's uncovered, stories you won't find in the hobby publications, the stories they don't dare run.

Travis, the above statement is b.s. - not only is no one deflecting from his stories, much of the information in his stories was plagiarized directly from this site;e.g-the Brooklyn Atlantics cdv stuff.

tIf someone doesn't like hos or nash, fine, no problem, but to point to others and say you can't read, believe, enjoy, or agree with what is posted less you be the "bad guy" is ridiculous and it should stop.

I agree with the above, but it's mostly just a straw man scenario. The association some people here actually make is that you are a "bad guy" if you support and defend Nash. That's quite different from the situation you describe.

Mr. Zipper
08-26-2013, 08:16 AM
This is hilarious coming from someone who does not allow any dissent at all on his own website. Why won't you allow Chris or Steve to sign up for your forum?...

Just to clarify, I have never attempted to sign up and have no interest in doing so.

I was simply relaying the information that Chris and one other (credible) person I know have attempted and were denied.

slidekellyslide
08-26-2013, 08:24 AM
Travis, the above statement is b.s. - not only is no one deflecting from his stories, much of the information in his stories was plagiarized directly from this site;e.g-the Brooklyn Atlantics cdv stuff.


And I suspect much of what he writes is relayed to him from people who frequent Net54 but don't want to put it out there themselves. Thus his penchant for "Sources say..." type journalism.

travrosty
08-26-2013, 09:09 AM
it's funny that the biggest problem people have is that its nash reporting and not the actual stories, because 99% of the complaining of hos has nothing to do with the actually articles and stories written. They don't like the reports so they shoot the messenger. If the reports are so objectionable then refute them. But people don't, they spend the time on Nash bash, it's so stupid. If SCB and Beckert did their job as hobby publications they would sometimes report on the hobby's shortcomings but they can't do that because of advertising and loyalties. they couldnt even kick off roach's corner off of their own ads for years but they are going to report on stolen hof and fake autographs, cards? there is no way. hos is filling a gap and some don't like it, but can't refute the material so they find others ways to divert so we get "let's tar and feather the guy who reports it. dumb. how about we help find the stolen material, keep them from being auctioned off and return them to the HOF and the New York and Boston PL system? Think that might work?

Runscott
08-26-2013, 09:13 AM
it's funny that the biggest problem people have is that its nash reporting and not the actual stories, because 99% of the complaining of hos has nothing to do with the actually articles and stories written. They don't like the reports so they shoot the messenger. If the reports are so objectionable then refute them. But people don't, they spend the time on Nash bash, it's so stupid. If SCB and Beckert did their job as hobby publications they would sometimes report on the hobby's shortcomings but they can't do that because of advertising and loyalties. they couldnt even kick off roach's corner off of their own ads for years but they are going to report on stolen hof and fake autographs, cards? there is no way. hos is filling a gap and some don't like it, but can't refute the material so they find others ways to divert so we get "let's tar and feather the guy who reports it. dumb. how about we help find the stolen material, keep them from being auctioned off and return them to the HOF and the New York and Boston PL system? Think that might work?

Travis, in your honor, I only read the first two sentences of the above, and also in your honor, I won't respond directly to any of it.

I really wish everyone would communicate with you the same way that you communicate with us. Then you would see how frustrating and worthless such discourse is.

You have a lot of knowledge, but no desire for two-way communication, and that's a shame.

travrosty
08-26-2013, 09:22 AM
The whole thread started over heritage with two dumb ali signed photos and they are still up after well over a week of heritage being aware of it. that doesnt concern anybody but hos does. all roads lead to rome and all threads lead to hos.

Runscott
08-26-2013, 09:23 AM
Travis, one more thing, and this might help illustrate the point several of us have tried to make:

I have been to your 'Autograph Planet' website. I have also been to HOS. I go to HOS rarely, but there are times when a search brings it up and I can't help myself, and so I read the information presented. It's often very helpful information, but I will not follow HOS regularly because of who the messenger is.

Basically, I sometimes LIKE the message, but I don't respect the messenger - that's exactly the opposite of what you claim we do.

Are you understanding yet how helpful it would be for you to actually read what we write here?

Your site, on the other hand, has very little that interests me. So basically, I don't dislike the messenger (you), but the content doesn't do anything for me so I rarely go there. integrity is important to some of us. You might be an angry guy who doesn't listen, but you are honest and go about your business honestly (I assume). Nash was dishonest, and as far as I know, he still is. So you get a chance, he doesn't. It's pretty simple.

slidekellyslide
08-26-2013, 10:15 AM
Are you understanding yet how helpful it would be for you to actually read what we write here?



He reads it.

travrosty
08-26-2013, 11:11 AM
http://sports.ha.com/c/video.zx?src=/webisodes/Avoiding_Forgeries?ic=icvideo-intelligent-forgeries-072811

check it out, this is rich, 1:55 mark,

yeah i have seen some forgeries too, right on your boxing listings, two muhammad ali operation bullpen fakes you have known about for several days now, how about taking them off?

oh man!

mighty bombjack
08-26-2013, 11:15 AM
The whole thread started over heritage with two dumb ali signed photos and they are still up after well over a week of heritage being aware of it. that doesnt concern anybody but hos does. all roads lead to rome and all threads lead to hos.

Bidding for the item in the link starts in October. I'm sure HA is waiting for some TPA to tell them it is good or bad before taking further action. From the history being presented in this thread, it seems the one thing that certainly WON'T happen is that they take it down based on your word.

And, no, this doesn't really concern me on any level.

slidekellyslide
08-26-2013, 01:19 PM
I'm apologizing to Shelly...I certainly can take my sarcasm and online meanness too far and I did that in this thread and for that I am sorry.

Runscott
08-26-2013, 01:34 PM
Two nice guys.

It's amazing to me how much better the entire autograph sub-forum is doing lately. Up until recently I think I've had at least one fight with everyone here, except maybe Travis, who refuses to fight with me :)

thetruthisoutthere
08-26-2013, 03:07 PM
This is hilarious coming from someone who does not allow any dissent at all on his own website. Why won't you allow Chris or Steve to sign up for your forum? You ever had a post on Net54 deleted? Have you ever been silenced here? You've overplayed your McCarthyism card, time to turn to Nazi Germany.

Travis Roste and his wife Nora Roste won't even explain why they rejected my membership over at "The Planet," but at the same time Travis is free to express his views here on Net54.

But obviously over at "The Planet" those unwritten rules of free expression are not allowed by Travis & Nora Roste.

Wymers Auction
08-26-2013, 03:53 PM
Travis Roste and his wife Nora Roste won't even explain why they rejected my membership over at "The Planet," but at the same time Travis is free to express his views here on Net54.

But obviously over at "The Planet" those unwritten rules of free expression are not allowed by Travis & Nora Roste.
Chris a bit of advice leave Nora out of this. Your feud is with Travis you know I am not trying to come down on you Chris, but just consider what I said and I know you will see it more clearly.

thetruthisoutthere
08-26-2013, 04:07 PM
Chris a bit of advice leave Nora out of this. Your feud is with Travis you know I am not trying to come down on you Chris, but just consider what I said and I know you will see it more clearly.

Nora Roste is the owner, James.

The following is posted on her (AutographPlanet) website:

If you ever have any concerns about the site, please let me know as I am the chief in charge of the show.

So did Mrs. Roste reject my membership, or was it rejected on the advice (or demand) from Travis or Todd Mueller?

shelly
08-26-2013, 04:29 PM
Chris a bit of advice leave Nora out of this. Your feud is with Travis you know I am not trying to come down on you Chris, but just consider what I said and I know you will see it more clearly.
Jim, you are correct. It is wrong to bring in anyone's faimly. There is the problem that she is the head of the Company. I still think Travis should answere but he has put her in a reall bad position:mad:

slidekellyslide
08-26-2013, 04:44 PM
Jim, you are correct. It is wrong to bring in anyone's faimly. There is the problem that she is the head of the Company. I still think Travis should answere but he has put her in a reall bad position:mad:

She appears to have an active role in the website though.

---------------------------------
Hello, welcome to my planet. I am Nora Roste and I created Autograph Planet for your enjoyment. I am your hostess ready to help you in your wonderful journey of collecting autographs. I have given my husband Travis, the boxing guy, the task of adminstering the site, so I can more easily help you with your collecting needs. You will be hearing from both of us a lot, and let me know how we can help you here at Autograph Planet.

I am originally from Philippines, which is on the other side of Autograph Planet, ha, but we have our celebrities there, too. Most notably Manny Pacquiao, but also billiards legend Efren Reyes and Americans who have Filipino heritage such as DWTS Cheryl Burke, and Tia Carrere, Phoebe Cates, Lou Diamond Philips and a lot more.

I have a lot of entertainment and collecting interests and it will be fun to learn yours! You will be seeing more posts from me and my sidekick, that's my husband, as we travel together on this spinning globe we call the Autograph Planet. Mabuhay!
-----------------------------------

thetruthisoutthere
08-26-2013, 04:48 PM
Jim, you are correct. It is wrong to bring in anyone's faimly. There is the problem that she is the head of the Company. I still think Travis should answere but he has put her in a reall bad position:mad:

Correct, Shelly. Mrs. Roste announced "I am Nora Roste and I created Autograph Planet for your enjoyment."

All I want to know is why my membership was rejected.

Leon
08-26-2013, 05:09 PM
Correct, Shelly. Mrs. Roste announced "I am Nora Roste and I created Autograph Planet for your enjoyment."

All I want to know is why my membership was rejected.

Sounds like a fair question to me.

Runscott
08-26-2013, 05:34 PM
All I want to know is why my membership was rejected.

Then preface your question with: "Travis, I think PSA and DNA are the worst things since unsliced bread. What are your thoughts? Oh, and why was my Planet membership rejected?"

You'll at least get a response to half of your post.

Wymers Auction
08-26-2013, 05:37 PM
Correct, Shelly. Mrs. Roste announced "I am Nora Roste and I created Autograph Planet for your enjoyment."

All I want to know is why my membership was rejected.

I see your point Chris, Dan, and Shelly. I tried to state my concern politely as I have much respect for Chris. You are right fair question Leon. Chris certainly not wanting to start trouble here, but without the back story you can see why I would say that. I have never been to that website I get plenty of Travis on here. I actually like Travis just fine, but that small dig was to easy to avoid and rather harmless. Thanks for clearing this up for me guys.

Leon
08-26-2013, 05:41 PM
I see your point Chris, Dan, and Shelly. I tried to state my concern politely as I have much respect for Chris. You are right fair question Leon. Chris certainly not wanting to start trouble here, but without the back story you can see why I would say that. I have never been to that website I get plenty of Travis on here. I actually like Travis just fine, but that small dig was to easy to avoid and rather harmless. Thanks for clearing this up for me guys.


Hey James
You haven't been on the board a long, long time. Just so you know, I have absolutely 0 tolerance for anyone bringing any family members into any discussions in a negative, or close to negative way. I am very protective in this area. If anyone wants to get immediately kicked off of the board just give it a go. So I think we are on the same page in how we feel. That being said, She is one of the owners of that site, so in a respectful way should be fair game. Chris was/is respectful and the question was certainly fair, as you agreed. I just wanted to reiterate my feelings on bringing any family members into discussions for those who may not know.

Wymers Auction
08-26-2013, 06:04 PM
Hey that is cool Leon. I think all of us are gentlemen and agree on this topic. Chris and I get along very well I knew I could ask the question without offending him.

thetruthisoutthere
08-26-2013, 06:15 PM
Hey James
You haven't been on the board a long, long time. Just so you know, I have absolutely 0 tolerance for anyone bringing any family members into any discussions in a negative, or close to negative way. I am very protective in this area. If anyone wants to get immediately kicked off of the board just give it a go. So I think we are on the same page in how we feel. That being said, She is one of the owners of that site, so in a respectful way should be fair game. Chris was/is respectful and the question was certainly fair, as you agreed. I just wanted to reiterate my feelings on bringing any family members into discussions for those who may not know.

I, too, have ZERO tolerance for anyone bringing family members into these forums.

But Mrs. Roste is the "Owner" of AutographPlanet.

All I want to know is why my membership was rejected and by who (Travis, Nora, or Mueller)?

slidekellyslide
08-26-2013, 06:23 PM
Let me see if I have my facts straight here...Travis comes to Net54 daily, spouts off about whatever he wants to regarding PSA/DNA, JSA, and auction houses..never once having a single word he's written stricken from the record, yet constantly accuses us of McCarthyism. He's also been demanding Heritage come here and tell him why he was banned from their auctions.

Meanwhile he runs a web forum that does not allow dissent, and won't tell Chris why he is "banned" from his website.

This is hilarious.

Exhibitman
08-26-2013, 06:28 PM
Let me see if I have my facts straight here...Travis comes to Net54 daily, spouts off about whatever he wants to regarding PSA/DNA, JSA, and auction houses..never once having a single word he's written stricken from the record, yet constantly accuses us of McCarthyism. He's also been demanding Heritage come here and tell him why he was banned from their auctions.

Meanwhile he runs a web forum that does not allow dissent, and won't tell Chris why he is "banned" from his website.

This is hilarious.

Actually, Dan, I believe the correct adjective is "Orwellian."

shelly
08-26-2013, 06:46 PM
Let us be totaly honest. This is Autograph Alert. Steve can not have his own site so he uses the same team. I give you a topic and if you dont agree you not here anymore. I would just say that I wish Travis and his faimly well.:rolleyes:
On a seperate note. You really are a coward and I do feel bad for your better half.:mad::mad::mad::mad:
Travis, there is a Woody Alen movie called the front. You should whatch it. Look at the ending over and over and you will find out who and what you should be.
www.imdb.com/title/tt0074554/‎

thetruthisoutthere
08-26-2013, 07:58 PM
Then preface your question with: "Travis, I think PSA and DNA are the worst things since unsliced bread. What are your thoughts? Oh, and why was my Planet membership rejected?"

You'll at least get a response to half of your post.

I just might do that, Scott.....

shelly
08-26-2013, 08:44 PM
Leon, can' Travis have his wife sign up? I would think she would be a lot better person to talk about that site than Travis. It seems to me the person that owns it and runs can tell us :confused:why some people can belong and others can't

Leon
08-26-2013, 08:54 PM
Leon, can' Travis have his wife sign up? I would think she would be a lot better person to talk about that site than Travis. It seems to me the person that owns it and runs can tell us :confused:why some people can belong and others can't

Anyone can sign up. No one has ever not been approved upon original registration. Peter Nash could even sign up :).

shelly
08-26-2013, 09:05 PM
Anyone can sign up. No one has ever not been approved upon original registration. Peter Nash could even sign up :).

Leon. who is that:confused:

thetruthisoutthere
08-27-2013, 04:59 AM
Leon, can' Travis have his wife sign up? I would think she would be a lot better person to talk about that site than Travis. It seems to me the person that owns it and runs can tell us :confused:why some people can belong and others can't

I think that's a great idea.

Mr. Zipper
08-27-2013, 06:07 AM
Shame on Travis for putting his wife in a terrible position if it is indeed true that other people are controlling what goes on at his(?) site.

Just another example of very poor judgement.

thetruthisoutthere
08-27-2013, 03:56 PM
Shame on Travis for putting his wife in a terrible position if it is indeed true that other people are controlling what goes on at his(?) site.

Just another example of very poor judgement.

Agreed.

thetruthisoutthere
08-27-2013, 04:14 PM
I sincerely hope that Mrs. Roste wasn't put in that position to act as some kind of shield from criticism.

thetruthisoutthere
08-27-2013, 05:29 PM
I wonder what would happen if, out-of-the-blue, Leon decided to ban Travis?

That would never happen, of course, but what would Travis, and his buddies, like Mueller, comment, if Travis was banned from Net54?

thecatspajamas
08-27-2013, 05:59 PM
I wonder what would happen if, out-of-the-blue, Leon decided to ban Travis?

That would never happen, of course, but what would Travis, and his buddies, like Mueller, comment, if Travis was banned from Net54?

Kind of a "if a tree falls in the woods" sort of question...?

thetruthisoutthere
08-27-2013, 06:13 PM
Kind of a "if a tree falls in the woods" sort of question...?

Yes, Lance, kind of......

shelly
08-27-2013, 06:13 PM
There is no reason to ban him. He doesnt say anything:)

thetruthisoutthere
08-27-2013, 08:14 PM
The silence from Travis is deafening..........

Maybe Travis will start another deflection thread.....

Big Dave
08-28-2013, 07:55 AM
Isn't freedom of speech a great thing......even if you don't like what someone has to say...or someone doesnt like what you say.

Sunny
08-28-2013, 01:48 PM
Leon. who is that:confused:

Peter Nash is Prime Minister Pete Nice of 3rd Bass. Here he is preforming on stage July 2013 in Brooklyn, first show in 13 years, see link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aijf-nq1Zgk

Hope you do well Peter because you owe a lot of people money. Maybe you should write a new song about pleading the fifth since you have firsthand experience. You can give some words of wisdom about how you got the gas face by pleading the fifth dozens of times in a civil lawsuit. I have a suggestion for you write something about your life experiences on your Hauls of Shame website such as your “American Baseball Archives and Wax Museum” in Cooperstown, NY that you used to own in 1995 & 1996. Your “American Baseball Archives and Wax Museum” had a large collection of old trophy balls and very interesting artifacts and memorabilia on display such as that 1853 Knickerbockers Trophy Ball that was given to Henry Chadwick, now subject to the lawsuit between Corey Shanus and Robert Lifson. Where did you get all those items on display at the wax museum? It’s time to tell all Peter Nash! After all you own the Hauls of Shame website. We want to know the truth! What about the 1854 Trophy Ball you had on display at the wax museum and then you sold it for $72,050 back in 1996 which was a record selling price at the time and now that same 1854 Trophy Ball is on permanent display at the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, NY. MastroNet wrote in there description that the 1854 Trophy ball is similar in color and lettering to the 1853 Trophy Ball that Corey Shanus bought for $161,992 in 2003. Mr. Nash, where did you get these items from? Corey Shanus should depose you and put you in the hot seat! What about the 1903 World Series baseball once owned by Cy Young and donated to the Brooklyn Elks Lodge #22 that you sold in 1994 and was recently sold by Legendary Auctions for $65,000. Where did you get that 1903 World Series baseball that was owned by the Brooklyn Elks #22? See Link:

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=157615&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=15&seo=Final-Out-Game-Used-Baseball-from-Game-7-of-the-1903-World-Series-Signed-and-Notated-by-Winning-Pitc

I noticed some of the items that you sold have BPOE No. 22 stamped on it meaning (Brooklyn Elks Lodge 22 of the Benevolent Protective Order of Elks). For example the Henry Chadwick cabinet card you sold in 2007 on the back of the cabinet photo it is stamped with BPOE No. 22, see link:

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2004/470.html

It’s interesting to note that Henry Chadwick belonged to Brooklyn Elks No. 22 and so did Abe Yager the sports writer that took over Henry Chadwick position at the Brooklyn Daily Eagle. Henry Chadwick’s cabinet card you sold has Yager’s name written on it and Brooklyn daily Eagle. Where did you get these items from? Why did Cy Young donate his 1903 World Series Baseball to the Brooklyn Elks No. 22 in 1953? Is it because this Elks club had a baseball collection and you bought it? Mr. Nash you go into extreme details about the items you write about on Your Hauls of Shame website so please write about the items mentioned here that you once owned. Intriguing minds would love to know the history of these items. If anybody else would like to know more about Peter Nash here’s a couple of links:

http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/iteam/2012/05/ex-rapper-turned-sports-memorabilia-dealer-peter-nash-admits-not-filing-tax-returns-ov

Peter Nash will be preforming with 3rd Bass at Warm Fest 2013 on Sept 2, Broad Ripple Park between 3:15 - 4:00pm Indianapolis, Indiana.

http://lineup.warmfest.org/events/2013/09/02/


Rob.ert Fra.ser

shelly
08-28-2013, 01:49 PM
Sunny,it was a joke.:cool:

mighty bombjack
08-28-2013, 02:33 PM
Great post, Robert! Interesting stuff, for sure.

Big Dave
08-28-2013, 02:34 PM
All right....a comeback tour!

shelly
08-28-2013, 02:51 PM
What a long and exciting first post Mr Fraser.......and whom.are you working for?

He might be the sports editor for the Daily News.:rolleyes:

jgmp123
08-28-2013, 03:31 PM
Wow...I just posted a thread about the 3rd Bass thing...had no idea...I guess a reunion tour was necessary...

Exhibitman
08-28-2013, 03:40 PM
Kind of a "if a tree falls in the woods" sort of question...?

If an autograph is authenticated and no one is there to whine...

thetruthisoutthere
08-28-2013, 04:47 PM
He might be the sports editor for the Daily News.:rolleyes:

I know who Mr. Fra*ser is.

I loved his first post.

thetruthisoutthere
08-28-2013, 05:00 PM
It's common to get slammed on here for liking anything hos has on their site. they jump on you for being a pal or buddy or whatever of hos or nash, this is to deflect from the stories he's uncovered, stories you won't find in the hobby publications, the stories they don't dare run. Trying to paint someone guilty by association or trying to embarrass someone to stop information or criticism from getting out is deplorable and a version of that is what they did in the 1950's on a much bigger scale and you know what it was called. It is practiced with one of its goals to stop or restrict dissent/criticism.

If someone doesn't like hos or nash, fine, no problem, but to point to others and say you can't read, believe, enjoy, or agree with what is posted less you be the "bad guy" is ridiculous and it should stop. I disagree with several on this board, but never tell them they can't be acquaintances or friends with whoever they want, i never tell them shouldn't believe whatever they want, I only tell them when I believe they are wrong or disagree with their opinion. But hos touches a nerve so you get the firing squad every time you mention them.

What I don't understand is if people have a problem with what HOS writes, simply rebut and provide your argument against what he writes if what he is writing is incorrect. When I call out a boxing autograph and say that abc or xyz wrongly authenticated something, I provide proof, show side by side and dissect, analyze the differences to prove my point, but I don't see anti-hos people doing that. It is always shoot the messenger.

What I don't understand, Travis, is that no one has a problem with you expressing yourself freely here on Net54, but on your (and Nora Roste) own website you have "selective membership."

Why is that, Travis?

Is it because you don't want me to post critical comments about your buddy Todd Mueller?

Is it because you want your (and Mrs. Roste) website free of controversy?

Just give me a honest answer, Travis.

thetruthisoutthere
08-28-2013, 06:09 PM
The owners of "The Planet" wrote "The Roste's have teamed up to give you the full autograph collecting experience without the problems of infighting that is prevalent elsewhere."

Are you and your wife referring to Net54, Travis?

David Atkatz
08-28-2013, 06:13 PM
Should be "problems of infighting that are prevalent..."

Gotta fix that.

mighty bombjack
08-28-2013, 08:09 PM
Should be "problems of infighting that are prevalent..."

Gotta fix that.

Not necessarily. It might be the problems that ARE prevalent because of comparatively rare infighting, or the infighting that IS prevalent because of the occurance of said problems.

I be an an inglish teachman.

David Atkatz
08-28-2013, 08:55 PM
It is, without a doubt, "problems are prevalent." In his sentence, prevalent describes the problems, not the infighting.

shelly
08-28-2013, 08:56 PM
I would wonder if someone did not agree with them what would happen:p

Runscott
08-28-2013, 09:00 PM
I would wonder if someone did not agree with them what would happen:p

During my short visit to that page, I got the impression that the discussions were between the 'experts' at the planet, and a small group of carefully-screened people, with most of the discussions being planet people responding to their own posts;i.e-Travis starting a thread and then talking to/with himself.

So unless they create a member and plant a 'minor dissension' thread, there is really no damage of anyone arguing with their expert opinions.

As has been said frequently in the past: "It's a very small planet."

mighty bombjack
08-28-2013, 09:12 PM
It is, without a doubt, "problems are prevalent." In his sentence, prevalent describes the problems, not the infighting.

I disagree and see no reason, syntactically, why that is so. It would surely be clearer to use a definite article to refer to infighting if that were indeed what were prevalent, but it is not necessary. You can say that your interpretation is true "without doubt," but it is interpretation only and therefore open to credible doubt. In fact, the vast majority of defining relative clauses modify by proximity, which means that in a case of ambiguity, we could fall back on the interpretation that the relative pronoun "that" is modifying the noun in closest proximity, which in this case is the aforementioned "infighting." However, you are using larger contextual clues to interpret that it is modifying the earlier-occurring "problems." That's a fair interpretation, but it is far from being "without doubt," and I revel in the fact that very few things dealing with language are such.

David Atkatz
08-28-2013, 09:25 PM
Wayne, that is probably the clearest and best thought out reply to a post of mine that I have ever seen.

mighty bombjack
08-28-2013, 09:29 PM
Wayne, that is probably the clearest and best thought out reply to a post of mine that I have ever seen.

Thanks bro. Something needs to have focus in what has become a mess of a thread.

Exhibitman
08-28-2013, 09:43 PM
I would wonder if someone did not agree with them what would happen:p

No soup for you!

Runscott
08-28-2013, 09:46 PM
Thanks bro. Something needs to have focus in what has become a mess of a thread.

For some weird reason, even without meaningful input from 'the creator', Travis threads are often long and interesting....often for unintended reasons.

Scott Garner
08-29-2013, 04:11 AM
Wow...I just posted a thread about the 3rd Bass thing...had no idea...I guess a reunion tour was necessary...

As Price Minister Peter Nice (AKA Nash) would say:
You bet your A** Motherf****ers! :p
What a load...

Rich Klein
08-29-2013, 04:26 AM
Geez, Rich, I guess Travis & Nora Roste, Todd Mueller and Koschal must like you. I see they accepted you as a member of "The Planet."

They must like people from Dallas. :D

Big Dave
08-29-2013, 12:55 PM
A very interesting story that has been posted in another thread.......

http://www.strangefamousrecords.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=829262&sid=21bbd7aece4d0f0dcb24e6eb9d57c4fc

Wymers Auction
08-29-2013, 03:57 PM
I would wonder if someone did not agree with them what would happen:p

Tarred and feathered?

thetruthisoutthere
08-29-2013, 05:02 PM
They must like people from Dallas. :D

Lucky you, Rich...:)

shelly
08-29-2013, 06:02 PM
Rich, why dont you ask the site to let Chris in and if not why?;)

Runscott
08-29-2013, 06:33 PM
5 of the last 8 posts were Travis Roste responding to Travis Roste's discussion. 3 of the last 8 posts were Dan B responding to Travis Roste's discussion.

I don't see much room for Chris.

thetruthisoutthere
08-29-2013, 06:34 PM
5 of the last 8 posts were Travis Roste responding to Travis Roste's discussion. 3 of the last 8 posts were Dan B responding to Travis Roste's discussion.

I don't see much room for Chris.

Scott, you once again seriously cracked me up!!!!

earlywynnfan
08-29-2013, 06:40 PM
Does Travis respond to any direct questions to Travis' posts, or does he ignore them like he does here??

shelly
08-29-2013, 06:42 PM
Travis wins. ;););););););)

thetruthisoutthere
08-29-2013, 06:56 PM
Does Travis respond to any direct questions to Travis' posts, or does he ignore them like he does here??

Ken, try asking him....

Scott Garner
08-29-2013, 07:07 PM
Scott, you once again seriously cracked me up!!!!

+1

slidekellyslide
08-29-2013, 09:44 PM
5 of the last 8 posts were Travis Roste responding to Travis Roste's discussion. 3 of the last 8 posts were Dan B responding to Travis Roste's discussion.

I don't see much room for Chris.

Dan B is not me...obviously. I haven't tried to sign up but I doubt I'd be approved.

thetruthisoutthere
08-30-2013, 03:05 PM
It's not a surprise that Travis hasn't replied to any of our comments.

Just amazing that he (Travis) is allowed free expression over here, but his (and Nora's) website is closed to "outside" participation.

slidekellyslide
08-30-2013, 04:18 PM
It's not a surprise that Travis hasn't replied to any of our comments.

Just amazing that he (Travis) is allowed free expression over here, but his (and Nora's) website is closed to "outside" participation.

His deflection post was pretty hilarious though, wasn't it?

thetruthisoutthere
08-30-2013, 07:11 PM
His deflection post was pretty hilarious though, wasn't it?

It was.

Although I really thought Travis was more creative than that.....

shelly
08-30-2013, 07:48 PM
Sorry, what post are the two of you talking about?
:confused:

thetruthisoutthere
08-30-2013, 07:50 PM
Sorry, what post are the two of you talking about?
:confused:

Shelly, below is a link to the deflection thread that Travis started....

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=174807

Big Dave
08-30-2013, 08:06 PM
Mr. Williams,

What in that tread is a deflection from whatever you are referencing? I just read it and do not see any post from Travis except the first one, which contains a legitimate question.

slidekellyslide
08-30-2013, 08:30 PM
Mr. Williams,

What in that tread is a deflection from whatever you are referencing? I just read it and do not see any post from Travis except the first one, which contains a legitimate question.

Travis decided to exit this thread when the heat was turned up on him so he posted a new thread. This is something he claims that we do to him on a constant basis.

thetruthisoutthere
08-30-2013, 08:30 PM
Mr. Williams,

What in that tread is a deflection from whatever you are referencing? I just read it and do not see any post from Travis except the first one, which contains a legitimate question.

Dave, the thread itself was an attempt by Travis to deflect from this thread.

I do believe a few other members here saw right through it and commented on it.

Fuddjcal
08-31-2013, 01:11 PM
Dave, the thread itself was an attempt by Travis to deflect from this thread.

I do believe a few other members here saw right through it and commented on it.

while I agree with most of Travis's viewpoints...he is a complete idiot with no social skills plain and simple. Big, dumb and stupid aligning himself with Steve Kocshal & Todd Mueller, arguably the biggest slime in the business (IMHO), ...was Travis jumping the shark. He is a broken record with much to offer, but he can't derail the train that's speeding 100mph out of control. When the Mueller-church connection took place, that was the last straw and one of the funniest things any collector can witness....lying and cheating all day (not travis) then preaching the gospel. It is god damned ridiculous is what it is. It's augmentative nincompoops and cheater f'ers that have completely turned me off to collecting....and Travis is a huge part of that mix, IMHO

Runscott
08-31-2013, 01:15 PM
while I agree with most of Travis's viewpoints...he is a complete idiot with no social skills plain and simple. Big, dumb and stupid aligning himself with Steve Kocshal & Todd Mueller, arguably the biggest slime in the business (IMHO), ...was Travis jumping the shark. He is a broken record with much to offer, but he can't derail the train that's speeding 100mph out of control. When the Mueller-church connection took place, that was the last straw and one of the funniest things any collector can witness....lying and cheating all day (not travis) then preaching the gospel. It is god damned ridiculous is what it is. It's augmentative nincompoops and cheater f'ers that have completely turned me off to collecting....and Travis is a huge part of that mix, IMHO

Everything you say is true, but it's only the "cheater f'ers" who actually piss me off, but they don't turn me off to the hobby. Many of us keep responding to Travis because we do think that because of his knowledge, he could be much more useful to the hobby, so we try to talk some sense into him. At some point he might figure out that most of us are on his side, but that we would rather hear him share information than repeat his TPA rants.

thetruthisoutthere
08-31-2013, 01:37 PM
Travis decided to exit this thread...

And he (Travis) has yet to return.....

shelly
08-31-2013, 01:38 PM
The problem is that there are 229 post and he is no where to be found. :eek:

thetruthisoutthere
08-31-2013, 02:49 PM
while I agree with most of Travis's viewpoints...he is a complete idiot with no social skills plain and simple. Big, dumb and stupid aligning himself with Steve Kocshal & Todd Mueller, arguably the biggest slime in the business (IMHO), ...was Travis jumping the shark. He is a broken record with much to offer, but he can't derail the train that's speeding 100mph out of control. When the Mueller-church connection took place, that was the last straw and one of the funniest things any collector can witness....lying and cheating all day (not travis) then preaching the gospel. It is god damned ridiculous is what it is. It's augmentative nincompoops and cheater f'ers that have completely turned me off to collecting....and Travis is a huge part of that mix, IMHO

That's funny, Chuck, "The Mueller-Church Connection."

earlywynnfan
08-31-2013, 03:01 PM
That's funny, Chuck, "The Mueller-Church Connection."

I thought the funny part was Chuck bashing someone else's social skills! I actually picture Fudd as the bad guy from Johnny Dangerously, showing physical pain as he tries not to let loose a torrent of swear words. The Fargin' Icehole!!

Ken

thetruthisoutthere
08-31-2013, 03:56 PM
I thought the funny part was Chuck bashing someone else's social skills! I actually picture Fudd as the bad guy from Johnny Dangerously, showing physical pain as he tries not to let loose a torrent of swear words. The Fargin' Icehole!!

Ken

Ken, your comment might be the perfect segue for Travis to come back.

earlywynnfan
08-31-2013, 04:34 PM
Ken, your comment might be the perfect segue for Travis to come back.

I think Travis has me blocked. Every time I ask him a question on here, he somehow must not see it.

thetruthisoutthere
08-31-2013, 05:04 PM
I think Travis has me blocked. Every time I ask him a question on here, he somehow must not see it.

How could Travis possibly see your comment, Ken. He's on another "Planet."

shelly
08-31-2013, 05:42 PM
237 Enough. Not going to answere and your only talking to yourselves.:confused:

thetruthisoutthere
08-31-2013, 06:47 PM
Travis isn't on another "Planet."

He's on the "other side."

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=174893&page=11

Fuddjcal
09-01-2013, 10:30 AM
[QUOTE=earlywynnfan;1178396]

I thought the funny part was Chuck bashing someone else's social skills! I actually picture Fudd as the bad guy from Johnny Dangerously, showing physical pain as he tries not to let loose a torrent of swear words. The Fargin' Icehole!!

Ken[/QUOTE

LOL I agree Ken,

it's just taken a toll on me & I really have nothing to add anymore other than to show my sincere disdain for the Church-connection and the pond scum which is Travis, IMHO