Vintage cubs world champions mirror

[sicollector1954]

So I now am looking at this vintage mirror in person for the first time and was wondering if anyone could tell me if this is from the 1907 team or the 1908 team based on the players photos....I figure there has to be a player who might have played one of the seasons and not the other and that might solve the mystery....I am not good at identifying pictures so have at it if anyone who is able.
Mirror itself measures 3 and a half inches in diameter and is 7 inches in length from top to bottom with the attached handle. Thanks for any help and opinions...Can't find another one of these that have ever surfaced....may bring to the National to have people take a look in person if anyone is interested. Thanks.
Dave

[sicollector1954]

Sorry the pic comes up sideways...don't know why.....

[AgonyandIvy]

I believe it is from the 1908 season as that picture is identical to the pinback that was also issued to commemorate the 1908 Championship.

[sicollector1954]

Thanks much.

[springpin]

The company that produced it also made other items with celluloid (plastic), such as pinbacks, matchsafes, pocket knives, etc. Your item is very scarce and valuable. What is most intriguing to me about your mirror is that it still retains the full handle. Over 100 years after its production, someone has taken good care of it.

Paul

[sicollector1954]

Yes--the person who now owns it is looking to possibly sell in the near future. It has been passed down in the family and I am trying to find out as much info/value about it as possible....not my area of knowledge so any comments here is a big big help.
I posted some pictures once here before about it but it was awhile ago and at the time it was not in my possession. Now that it is, I have to say it seems to be original in all aspects and the condition for surviving over 100 years is great...will probably take to Chicago and get some opinions from people there as well. I figure a devoted Cub fan would covet this item as who knows when they will win another World Series??

[sporteq]

nice!! 1908

[bmarlowe1]

I'll refrain from guessing and tell you that the presence of Doc Gessler (8 o'clock) and Tom Walsh (9 o'clock) tells us that this is the 1906 club pictured, regardless of what is says at the bottom or when the pin was issued. Also, all of the faces come directly from a well-known 1906 team photo, shown below.

[sicollector1954]

Thanks...this is exactly why I need you guys to try and tell me exactly what this thing is and what's it worth!

[sporteq]

I'll refrain from guessing and tell you that the presence of Doc Gessler (8 o'clock) and Tom Walsh (9 o'clock) tells us that this is the 1906 club pictured, regardless of what is says at the bottom or when the pin was issued. Also, all of the faces come directly from a well-known 1906 team photo, shown below.


They often used older picture in later produced items. For example 1909 T206 Honus Wagner. The images is from 1902 shot by Carl Horner.

Al

[sporteq]

Thanks...this is exactly why I need you guys to try and tell me exactly what this thing is and what's it worth!


I don't recall ever seen a mirror example of this image, only pinbacks. Probably $4/5k

Good luck

Al

[sicollector1954]

Thanks Al for the input.....not what I collect but for the right price I guess I could become a Cub fan....lol.

[sicollector1954]

Thanks very much Al...I have now identified all of the players with your help including the Trainer and Treasurer who are also pictured as well from the 1906 photo of the team you supplied. Interesting that Doc Gessler is in the picture on the mirror but he did not play in the 1907 season yet the caption at the bottom has them as the World Champions! Go figure.

[springpin]

The Cubs and the White Sox played in the 1906 World Series. A pair of pins were made featuring the respective team logos, and beneath the logo were the words "Champions of the World." If the players featured on this pin/mirror are from the 1906 team of the Cubs, it raises the possibility there is also a pin/mirror featuring the players for the 1906 White Sox. To the best of my knowledge such an item has not surfaced in the hobby in over 100 years.

[sporteq]

The Cubs and the White Sox played in the 1906 World Series. A pair of pins were made featuring the respective team logos, and beneath the logo were the words "Champions of the World." If the players featured on this pin/mirror are from the 1906 team of the Cubs, it raises the possibility there is also a pin/mirror featuring the players for the 1906 White Sox. To the best of my knowledge such an item has not surfaced in the hobby in over 100 years.


With your vast knowledge in this area.. I do believe this is 1 of 1 known to exist. Curious, how was this gem unearthed?

Cheers,
AL

[sicollector1954]

From my end--it apparently was an item which has been handed down in the family and the person knew I collect vintage baseball items and is considering selling it. Both of us live about 75 miles from Chicago. All pictured players are 06 team members and the faces are exactly from the 1906 team photograph. Jack Taylor who is pictured on the mirror also played in 07 but not 08 with the Cubs so just figured that maybe it was 1907 carried over since the Cubs lost to the Sox in 1906. Now with this info--it makes a little more sense why the World Champions is found on there. Wow-- is all I can say about the fact it may be one of a kind....who could even put a price on it but now am certainly going to try and own it...just don't know what the value would be.

[bmarlowe1]

They often used older picture in later produced items. For example 1909 T206 Honus Wagner. The images is from 1902 shot by Carl Horner.

Al

Yes I know that - it was implicit in my response. I was simply answering the original question that started this thread about the date of the team depicted, "I...was wondering if anyone could tell me if this is from the 1907 team or the 1908 team..."

[bmarlowe1]

Thanks very much Al...I have now identified all of the players with your help including the Trainer and Treasurer who are also pictured as well from the 1906 photo of the team you supplied. Interesting that Doc Gessler is in the picture on the mirror but he did not play in the 1907 season yet the caption at the bottom has them as the World Champions! Go figure.


Sicollector1954 - Al did not supply the pictures that conclusively dated the photo. I did (post #8). Al told you it was 1908 (post #7).

[springpin]

This is truly a magnificent item. To me, the most interesting part is the reverse. There are images that have been made into both celluloid pins and mirrors. The construction process is different for each. The collet is the round piece on the reverse that holds the image, the celluloid cover, and a round metal disk (that is, what we see when we turn a pin over) together. As such, the collet holds all the parts in place. In a pin, the collet is not very thick or deep, just deep enough for a spring pin to be inserted for wearing the pin. With a mirror back, the collet must be thicker, as a glass mirror takes up more space than a spring pin. In production, the collet serves to crimp the mirror in place. But this item is beyond just a mirror. It also features a handle, which from my inspection of the photo, is not affixed to the collet, but appears to be an extension of the collet itself. From a construction standpoint, this "super collet" is extremely thick, thick enough to extend above the back rim of the mirror, and also double as a handle. Quite apart from its desirability as a baseball memento, it is extraordinary from a design standpoint. You would think after 100 years of use as a woman's pocket mirror placed in a handbag, being bumped and jostled, the handle part would have broken off by now. Many mirrors from that era are missing, severely cracked, or have lost some of the silvering on the reverse that produces the mirroring effect. This item seemingly retains its original features. As a baseball item, the "mirror with handle" does not enhance its value per se, but as a beautiful exemplar of a bygone manufacturing process, it is an extraordinarily wonderful specimen. If I had to assess its current value, I would start with the prevailing price of the pin version of this item, and then add whatever a collector wants to pay for this most unusual artistic expression.

Paul

[sporteq]

Yes I know that - it was implicit in my response. I was simply answering the original question that started this thread about the date of the team depicted, "I...was wondering if anyone could tell me if this is from the 1907 team or the 1908 team..."

Sorry if it came out weird.. the post was intended for members who are new to collecting etc. Have lots of fun :)


Al

[sicollector1954]

SORRY AND THANKS MARK!!!! I am just trying to take all of this in and trying to keep everything straight.....
if any of you guys that have posted here are going to be at the National.....and want to see this item in person.....please feel free to contact me at sicollector1954@charter.net and I will give you info in regards to contacting me and when I will be there. Thanks again everyone for your input.

[sicollector1954]

Found one of these as a pin back....Legendary Auctions (History) Oser December 2002. Thanks.

[bmarlowe1]

SORRY AND THANKS MARK!!!! I am just trying to take all of this in and trying to keep everything straight.....
if any of you guys that have posted here are going to be at the National.....and want to see this item in person.....please feel free to contact me at sicollector1954@charter.net and I will give you info in regards to contacting me and when I will be there. Thanks again everyone for your input.

It's really a nice find. Hope you get a good price if you decide to sell it.