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View Full Version : AROD May Be Banned from Baseball?!?!


ullmandds
07-23-2013, 09:29 PM
"That'd be making a statement!"

http://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2013/7/23/4550742/alex-rodriguez-suspension-ban-biogenesis-mlb

Seattle799
07-23-2013, 09:36 PM
Tough call... As much as I'd love to see A-Rod banned for life, I kinda want the Yanks to have to eat his contract for six(?) more years

bcornell
07-23-2013, 09:42 PM
We need a Mitchell Report for the hobby.

ctownboy
07-23-2013, 09:47 PM
Good.

How many times can a player use steroids or other PED's, deny it, lie about it, get away with it and then continue to do it while wiping everybody noses in it?

A Rod signed his big contract with the Rangers and, over the years, was asked NUMEROUS times about steroid use and abuse. Every time he denied he was a user.

A Rod opted out of his big dollar, long term deal to sign an even bigger dollar long term deal. Only AFTER signing this deal (which had NO language in it about steroid use and voidance of the contract) did A Rod admit that, yes, he did use steroids. But, only AFTER he signed the first big contact and before the MLB steroid policy was put into place in 2004.

I say, if if MLB has the goods on A Rod and he wants to fight the process, then MLB SHOULD ban A Rod.

This will punish him for past transgressions (which are most likely MORE than one) while also sending a message to other players that using, cheating, lying and being smug about it will not be tolerated.

David

Mrvintage
07-23-2013, 09:53 PM
I would LOVE to see Arod get the lifetime ban. That could be just what baseball needs to send a message to the rest of the league. My guess is he will make a deal with MLB and "retire".

nolemmings
07-23-2013, 10:34 PM
Sorry, it ain't happenin.

ScottFandango
07-24-2013, 06:06 AM
Sorry, it ain't happenin.

And why not?

What makes you so sure....

I'm calling lifetime ban for sure....

Not like he can play anymore anyway

Brian Van Horn
07-24-2013, 06:56 AM
I will believe it when I see it.

barrysloate
07-24-2013, 07:00 AM
His career is pretty much over anyway, he doesn't have very much gas left in the tank. And he won't get into the HOF because of his steroid use. The only thing he will lose is money. Given how arrogant he has been I won't be shedding even a single tear if he receives a lifetime ban. And I used to love to watch him play when he was still a great player. No sympathy at all.

ullmandds
07-24-2013, 07:03 AM
I agree with you 100%, Barry. Even if he gets a large suspension...ie. 150+ games his career will most likely be over...although based on his historical arrogance I just don't see him just disappearing into the night?!?!

barrysloate
07-24-2013, 07:08 AM
Actually Peter, even if he came back today and played out the season I think his career is pretty much over. He might be a .230 hitter with limited power and run production. The Yankees can bring someone up from AAA who can do that. Zoilo Almonte is likely to finish the season stronger than A-Rod would. I say he's done.

AddieJoss
07-24-2013, 07:43 AM
If he is banned for life, we don't have to deal with any HOF talk at any point.

kengoldin
07-24-2013, 07:46 AM
We need a Mitchell Report for the hobby.

If he is banned for life, it is same as suspended without pay
Yankees would owe him zero

frankbmd
07-24-2013, 07:58 AM
If he is banned for life, it is same as suspended without pay
Yankees would owe him zero

and he wouldn't get to play in old-timers games:eek:.

conor912
07-24-2013, 08:02 AM
From a skill point of view, why would it even matter? Now that he's not juicing he's not nearly the threat he once was. As much as I hate the Yankees, they (and the rest of baseball) would be better off without him.

ScottFandango
07-24-2013, 08:21 AM
dude doesn't give a hoot about playing baseball...

he was BENCHED in the PLAYOFFS and he spent the time flirting with a hot fan and tried to get her phone number....

he knows (ASSUMES) he will just keep cashing $25 million ever year for doing SQUAT...

guess what Batman, hes got another thing coming to him!

him and Pete can have lunch together and discuss baseball.....

tcdyess
07-24-2013, 09:30 AM
dude doesn't give a hoot about playing baseball...

he was BENCHED in the PLAYOFFS and he spent the time flirting with a hot fan and tried to get her phone number....

he knows (ASSUMES) he will just keep cashing $25 million ever year for doing SQUAT...

guess what Batman, hes got another thing coming to him!

him and Pete can have lunch together and discuss baseball.....


Totally agreed, this has nothing to do with baseball, if he is not banned he will ride the pine for his $100m due to him over the next 5 years. He is trying to make any deal he can to ensure he is not banned and can continue to collect. As a Yankee fan, this contract is going to keep the Yankees from competing on the level we are used to over the last 15 years for years to come. I hope the rest of the MLB teams learn from this tragedy and stop giving these huge dollar long term contracts that end when the players are undoubtedly going to be a shadow of what they were in their prime.

By the way, if I'm the Yankees right now I am selling every piece (Cano included) to bring in some fresh young talent. It's time to cut costs and rebuild with a new plan.

pariah1107
07-24-2013, 09:38 AM
All for the lifetime ban.

Must say the reports of Tony Bosch probing A-ROID's arm for a vein are comical. As a nurse, i can say this is Medicine 101. Might want to check your doctors credentials if he can't find a vein in a healthy full grown male athlete.

Rodriguez's claims, that he only took steroids in Texas to deal with the pressures of a new contract were ridiculous. I can think of no better way to relieve the pressure than to move to the largest market in baseball with an even larger contract. He's a narcissist and habitual liar; those are the nicest things I have to say about him.

Quite honestly, the Yankees got what they deserved, and hope they get stuck with $98 million owed.

iwantitiwinit
07-24-2013, 10:47 AM
Good riddance. Simply stated he is a cancer. If he actually induced or introduced other players to the clinic I wonder if he could technically be charged as a drug pusher/distributor. That would be something.

Fred
07-24-2013, 11:05 AM
Due process....


I couldn't care less if A-Rod's banned for life, however in our great democracy we owe him due process before banning him for life....

nolemmings
07-24-2013, 11:25 AM
He's got no prior discipline for PEDs. It is more than a stretch to stack whatever they think they have as separate offenses and claim it's sufficient to give him a lifetime ban, and it would set horrible precedent for the Union; thus neither AROD nor the MLBPA would go down without a huge fight.

I suppose they could invoke some other "best interests of the game" clause if they think there was sufficient evidence of cover-up or tampering with evidence/ interfering with the investigation, etc. That too seems to me a stretch, and would also likely be appealed vigorously.

My guess is he'll be suspended through 2014. I doubt he will agree to anything, at least until that much is done and he's haggling to have it reduced.

ScottFandango
07-24-2013, 11:34 AM
Due process....


I couldn't care less if A-Rod's banned for life, however in our great democracy we owe him due process before banning him for life....

Totally disagree. This is baseball not a court of law... Totally 2 different things

Sean
07-24-2013, 11:57 AM
I agree with Scott: Due Process and Presumption of Innocence are important concepts in the judicial system, but only there. We can form our opinions of Arod based on whatever criteria we choose.

irishdenny
07-24-2013, 12:19 PM
Good.

How many times can a player use steroids or other PED's, deny it, lie about it, get away with it and then continue to do it while wiping everybody noses in it?

A Rod signed his big contract with the Rangers and, over the years, was asked NUMEROUS times about steroid use and abuse. Every time he denied he was a user.

A Rod opted out of his big dollar, long term deal to sign an even bigger dollar long term deal. Only AFTER signing this deal (which had NO language in it about steroid use and voidance of the contract) did A Rod admit that, yes, he did use steroids. But, only AFTER he signed the first big contact and before the MLB steroid policy was put into place in 2004.

I say, if if MLB has the goods on A Rod and he wants to fight the process, then MLB SHOULD ban A Rod.

This will punish him for past transgressions (which are most likely MORE than one) while also sending a message to other players that using, cheating, lying and being smug about it will not be tolerated.

David

And on the other hand...

I Think they should have Doctor's & Nurse's waiting for them at the end of the tunnel Freely Injecting any & All Takers...

I want to see 800 ft Home Run's and Pitcher's Lasting Double Header's... Just Like "Big Ed" Walsh did Back in the Day!

If they want to do this stuff.. Then Let'em... They will cheat anyway... & that my Fellow Baseball Fans is just what is gonna continue to happen!

"Line'em uP, Knock'em Out or Sit'em Down"

Come on now... wouldn't Like to see 110 mile an hour fast ball? Or even a 5 foot hanging curve ball?

Maybe Pfizer's Name would even be a the Ball instead of Rawlings!

Didn't Our President say that we needed "Change"... Now that's a change I can live with... their gonna do it anyway....

JMHO

a little voice from the Stan...

TUM301
07-24-2013, 12:29 PM
Retire, no way, banned doubt it, play again 50/50.

TistaT202
07-24-2013, 12:54 PM
As a Yankee fan, and a baseball fan, I hope he never plays again...not sure if that will be a result of a lifetime ban or simply because he physically cannot stay healthy (esp. without the juice).

Mike

ScottFandango
07-24-2013, 01:03 PM
As a Yankee fan, and a baseball fan, I hope he never plays again...not sure if that will be a result of a lifetime ban or simply because he physically cannot stay healthy (esp. without the juice).

Mike

its amazing how many Yankee fans DONT WANT THIS GUY...

that is VERY TELLING....usually at least, you get the hometown support...

HOF Auto Rookies
07-24-2013, 01:05 PM
I have a firm/strong belief that ARod, nor any other players 'implicated' in this will get suspended etc.

I am working on typing my reasoning, so please give me time

ScottFandango
07-24-2013, 01:06 PM
I have a firm/strong belief that ARod, nor any other players 'implicated' in this will get suspended etc.

I am working on typing my reasoning, so please give me time


ummm where have you been the last few days....

a guy named Braun got the ax already....

HOF Auto Rookies
07-24-2013, 01:15 PM
ummm where have you been the last few days....

a guy named Braun got the ax already....

Other than Braun, sorry I didn't make it clear. I was implying outside of him, my oops

brob28
07-24-2013, 01:18 PM
What I would really like too see is all records of those caught using PED's wiped out from the record books, banned from the HOF and any awards retracted. Most of these guys have enough money to be secure financially, but the shame and ego hit of losing their place in history would sting.
I'd also like to get to a point where all contracts can be voided and past income "clawed back" if a player is caugh using PED's as well. The only way to really stop abuse is to make the penalty so harsh it's not worth the potential loss.

earlywynnfan
07-24-2013, 01:22 PM
While I wholeheartedly agree with dropping the hammer on these guys, I don't think the general baseball public cares.

Did anyone see the hero's welcome LA gave Manny?
Does anyone ask David Ortiz if he's still looking for whoever spiked his vitamins?
Did anyone even ask Pudge Rodriguez why/how he came to spring training a few years ago at half the size he was a year before?

AROD, Bonds, and Clemens are fun to hate. But for the most part, apathy rules.

Ken

EvilKing00
07-24-2013, 01:31 PM
I don't see how he can get banned for life for PED use. Hes never tested positive. 1 failed test gets 50 games, a second gets 100 games.

Im sure they have a lot on him, maybe signed canceled checks, or order forms etc, maybe even cought on camera. So, like braun he should take a deal.

MLB prob wanted 100 games from braun, and they settled for 65 with no fight.

When suspended the player DOSNT get paid for the time hes on suspension. Do you think arod is going to walk away from 120million left on his deal? he will be back when if the question. Should take a deal now and come back when its over & collect his money.

ScottFandango
07-24-2013, 01:48 PM
I don't see how he can get banned for life for PED use. Hes never tested positive. 1 failed test gets 50 games, a second gets 100 games.

Im sure they have a lot on him, maybe signed canceled checks, or order forms etc, maybe even cought on camera. So, like braun he should take a deal.

MLB prob wanted 100 games from braun, and they settled for 65 with no fight.

When suspended the player DOSNT get paid for the time hes on suspension. Do you think arod is going to walk away from 120million left on his deal? he will be back when if the question. Should take a deal now and come back when its over & collect his money.


Arod will not have a choice in the matter....

he is nailed and MLB will do with him what they please....

LIFETIME BAN (supported by and favored by the Yankees Front Office)

Brian cashman HATES THIS GUY!

yanks12025
07-24-2013, 01:59 PM
He's gonna play this weekend so not sure why people vote for him not playing. Even if he gets banned for life he's going to appeal the decision, so he'll be able to play while appealing. They already said appeal decisions won't be till months/next season.

autograf
07-24-2013, 02:25 PM
They more or less said that about Braun too..........if Arod can avoid banishment and come to some deal, I see him doing it THIS year since he's not in the best physical shape and he'll have to play into that. Just my opinion.......not entirely sure he has much mojo left though and he'll be a wallflower come HOF time with Sosa, Palmeiro, McGwire, Bonds, et al......

Sean
07-24-2013, 02:45 PM
its amazing how many Yankee fans DONT WANT THIS GUY...

that is VERY TELLING....usually at least, you get the hometown support...

Great point. On another thread we have Bill ready to lay down his life for Ryan Braun, but no Yankee fans will defend ARod. They hate him more than the rest of us do. :rolleyes:

PS- Bill, no offense. I don't agree with your defense of Braun but I respect you for trying. :)

conor912
07-24-2013, 02:45 PM
Despite my previous comment, I think it's pretty hard to justify banning when he's never even been suspended once. What kind of message does THAT send?

Deertick
07-24-2013, 03:00 PM
I heard that Arod took out an 'end of career' insurance policy that guaranteed him the value of his contract.

Why would someone do that? It is a guaranteed contract. Even if he cuts a leg off, the Yanks have to pay. Unless he was betting the come on getting banned....

Sean
07-24-2013, 03:09 PM
Jim, interesting terminology. And if you are correct about that policy, that would be very revealing.

iwantitiwinit
07-24-2013, 03:09 PM
I just bet a guy at work $200 he gets more than 100 games (pre-appeal), watcha think?

drmondobueno
07-24-2013, 03:24 PM
A-Fraud has too much money and too many attorneys. He will find a way to get what he wants.

Maybe if the fans pelt him with specimen cups.... he will go away:D

ctownboy
07-24-2013, 03:36 PM
No, A Rod hasn't failed a drug test but he HAS admitted to prior steroid or PED use (after lying about it or not saying anything for years when he was asked about it).

Also, if you read the article on Fangraphs concerning Ryan Braun's suspension, it was said that a player who hasn't failed a drug test but who is caught in this type of scheme/scandal isn't necessarily tied to the 50/100/permanent ban penalties. It was said this could/would fall under a different set of infractions where those rules might not apply. That is why there are reports that A Rod could be suspended 150 games. That is also why the head of the Players Association said that players found guilty and who lose their appeal could be suspended 5 games or 500 games.

In this situation, it is up to the Commissioner to set the punishment for the crime.

If Selig has the goods on A Rod (and the Yankees want him gone as much as most fans seem to want him gone) and he wants to set an example then banning A Rod for life is a possibility. He would then join the Black Sox players and Pete Rose as examples.......

David

ScottFandango
07-24-2013, 03:49 PM
Despite my previous comment, I think it's pretty hard to justify banning when he's never even been suspended once. What kind of message does THAT send?

a GREAT MESSAGE!

if MLB gets rid of the once PRINCE OF BASEBALL, then anyone can go...

this should scare the rest of the players straight!

HOF Auto Rookies
07-24-2013, 03:54 PM
According to the JDA (Joint Drug Agreement),

‘A Player may be subjected to disciplinary action for just cause by the Commissioner for any Player violation of Section 2 above not referenced in Section 7.A through 7.F above.’

So, the issue with this is what and how do they define ‘just cause.’ Is it the reports, biogenesis etc. Do they trust the word of Bosch?
The JDA provides two means only for suspensions: positive drug tests and reasonable cause. The tests can be scheduled, random, or based on ‘reasonable cause.’

Section 3 paragraph C,

‘In the event that either Party has information that gives it reasonable cause to believe that a Player has, in the previous 12-month period, engaged in the use, possession, sale or distribution of a Performance Enhancing Substance (including hGH) or Stimulant, the Party shall provide the other Party, either orally or in writing, with a description of its information (“Reasonable Cause Notification”), and the Player will be subject to an immediate urine and/or blood specimen collection, or a program of testing, as determined by the IPA, to commence no later than 48 hours after the Reasonable Cause Notification was provided.’

To date, baseball has only suspended players for positive tests (until Braun). Now, they CAN, under the JDA, suspend players for participating in the sale or distribution of a prohibited substance (Sec. 7, paragraph E-F). The issue with this is that they are statements form Bosch, whether or not they believe is sufficiently substantiated, I don’t know. If any suspensions were to happen, the player’s union would argue that you can’t go jump from a 50-game suspension to 100-games.

MLB could have tested these players on a ‘reasonable cause’ basis up to 48 hours after they got the report in January.

If the Yankees try to void A-Rod’s contract, you look into the Uniform Player Contract.

Termination, By the Club, 7.(b) ‘The Club may terminate this contract upon written notice to the Player (but only after requesting and obtaining waivers of this contract from all other Major League Clubs) if the Player at any time shall: (1) fail, refuse or neglect to conform his personal conduct to the standards of good citizenship and good sportsmanship or to keep himself in first-class physical condition or to obey the Club’s training rules; or (2) fail, in the opinion of the Club’s management, to exhibit sufficient skill or competitive ability to qualify or continue as a member of the Club’s team.’

Any attempt to void a contract will most likely result in a grievance filed and potential lawsuits. If a player is suspended, they can file civil lawsuits with Bosch and Biogenesis for defamation. The Players could say that they have been falsely portrayed in engaging in unlawful behavior which harmed their reputation. Breach of confidentiality agreements is another. If they had agreement with Bosch and Biogenesis to keep information confidential even upon the threat of a lawsuit. Plus, A-Rod’s contract is fully guaranteed, it simply cannot be voided unless it has some type of moral clause or other clauses with specific references to steroids or PED’s.

The league is run by a CBA, and in the CBA there is not instruction stating a players’ contract can be voided per JDA. An exception is the ‘best interests of the game’ clause.

CBA: Article XII – Discipline – B (Conduct Detrimental or Prejudicial to Baseball):

‘Players may be disciplined for just cause for conduct that is materially detrimental or materially prejudicial to the best interests of Baseball including, but not limited to, engaging in conduct in violation of federal, state or local law. The Commissioner and a Club shall not discipline a Player for the same act or conduct under this provision. In cases of this type, a Club may discipline a Player, or take other adverse action against him, when the Commissioner defers the disciplinary decision to the Club.’

Now, teams do not have to pay a player if the player is unable to play due to being injured or disabled as a result of their drug abuse, but in A-Rod’s case, his hip surgeries were warranted. Teams are also able to withhold salary if a player is unable to play due to legal proceedings or jail time cause by violation of the drug policy. The Yankees can try to get a doctor stating that his hip was caused by steroid use or other use of PED’s on the banned list.

MLB will try to get 100-game bans for the players based on one, the doping itself, and two, lying about it. Remember, this is how well you can trust Bosch, who is trying to save his own face. MLB has more to lose than to gain with this, because all of these suspensions wouldn’t be from failed drugs tests, but the credibility of Bosch.




WHEW. Now, I can write pages and pages and more on this topic, it's so complicated, yet unknown. This is my take on it from having read the CBA and JDA. As far as my earlier statement in regards to suspensions, based off of looking into this more, I can see them in being justified, just not the 100-games or lifetime ban.

Cheers,

Brent

BigJJ
07-24-2013, 04:53 PM
The Head of the Players Union and the Commissioner put in place a system that did not enforce the rules.

In order to compete with the guys who were taking prohibited substances, others started to take such substances.

Most players have 5-15 years to make the vast amount of money their family will need to live on for years. It was unfair to the players, to put them in a position where many felt they needed to endanger themselves, to earn money for their families.

Every time they hand out a sentence for the pre-2005 prohibited substance crew, I think - What about the guys who put the inadequate enforcement policy in place? They ought to be punished. Think of the tens of thousands of kids trying to make it pre-2005, who felt they had to endanger themselves to compete for their families.

I am not talking about the current players who are under a new and improved system. I consider them at fault in whole.

But Arod had to compete at that time against all of baseball's substance users.

And we all knew, didn't we? How could the Yankees not have known? How could MLB not have known?

The Union was not protecting its players by having them compete as to who could take more substances and get away with it. They did a miserable job of protecting the health of their players. Worst union handling I have ever seen.

And horrible job by the Commissioner's office in this regard.

If Arod pays a price, shouldn't they?

The Commisioner and Former Head of the Union have not paid a price have they?

But we have already lost many young players to cancer and shortened lives as a result. Even Arod may have irreparably injured his body. And he was an effective competitor - before everyone around him started getting very large.

Where is the true justice?

rdwyer
07-24-2013, 05:36 PM
I still like the old fashioned way. Floozies and booze.

ScottFandango
07-24-2013, 05:49 PM
He says he is ready to play, but do the Yanks want him?

I think they will say he is unhealthy and can't play....they are buying their time until his suspension is announced...

Remember, baseball is playing by THEIR OWN RULES now (see Braun's 65 game/rest of the year suspension). This is not 50 nor 100 nor 150 games....

they made up their own rules for this and they will do the same for Aroid= lifetime ban

conor912
07-24-2013, 06:37 PM
a GREAT MESSAGE!

if MLB gets rid of the once PRINCE OF BASEBALL, then anyone can go...

this should scare the rest of the players straight!

I disagree. MLB layed out a process and should follow that process. Banning him without ever have suspended him just to deter other guys from using is like handing out the death penalty for a misdemeanor in hopes that it will curb misdemeanors when in fact it will just create a whole lot of death penalties. Maybe that's not the best analogy, but you get my point.

Edited to add that I dislike him as much if not more than anyone and am not taking his side.

Jcfowler6
07-24-2013, 09:02 PM
How can A-Rod fight the facts. He isn't going easy. Here's a link to an article I read.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2013/07/23/alex-rodriguez-biogenesis-mlb-negotiations-suspension/2579977/

Exhibitman
07-25-2013, 05:07 PM
If MLB and MLBPA are serious about getting the game cleaned up they could resolve the problems with three simple things in the CBA:

1. Give teams the option of voiding the balance of multi-year contracts of officially punished PED users;

2. Mandate WADA random testing of any player caught using PEDs for the rest of his career; and

3. Mandate a morals clause in every contract that requires the signatory to swear under penalty of perjury that he hasn't used PEDs and that expressly states that the club is relying on that representation of fact in choosing to enter into the agreement. If he is proven to have violated that condition, the club could then go to court and seek to void the contract for fraud independent of MLB discipline.

Look, if I had the skills and needed a boost before free agency, I'd use PEDs give the slap on the wrist sanctions in place. As it stands now, a guy like Braun can take a penalty that represents a third of his income for his least lucrative contract year, rest up until next year, and then come back and get paid the balance of his contract. That isn't a deterrent, it is a cost of doing business, like the anticipated cost of killing and maiming a certain number of people every year from exploding Ford Pinto cars rather than fixing the gas tank. Players like these a-holes need a hammer like punitive damages hanging over their heads so that they aren't tempted to make a cost-benefit analysis in the first place. "Oh no you don't" clauses are commonplace to prohibit risky activities like motorcycling or playing basketball, so why not for PED use?

ctownboy
07-25-2013, 05:50 PM
Exhibitman,

In this thread or the Ryan Braun thread, I said a similar thing and amde a similar proposal.

For a first time infraction, the player is banned for one year and his contract is voided. When he comes back, he gets a one year deal, at league minimum pay and there can be no incentive clauses or anything which allows him to make any extra money from baseball during that year.

For a second violation, the cheater has his contract voided (again) and he is banned from baseball for life. This means no consideration for the Hall Of Fame. No working as a coach, manager, special assistant or ANYTHING to do with MLB.

take away the greed and ego factors and most of these guys will stop using PED's.

Oh yeah, one other thing, if MLB has the goods on these players and they have broken the law, turn over the evidence to the Feds or local police and let them face criminal charges.

David

HOF Auto Rookies
07-26-2013, 07:53 AM
If MLB and MLBPA are serious about getting the game cleaned up they could resolve the problems with three simple things in the CBA:

1. Give teams the option of voiding the balance of multi-year contracts of officially punished PED users;

2. Mandate WADA random testing of any player caught using PEDs for the rest of his career; and

3. Mandate a morals clause in every contract that requires the signatory to swear under penalty of perjury that he hasn't used PEDs and that expressly states that the club is relying on that representation of fact in choosing to enter into the agreement. If he is proven to have violated that condition, the club could then go to court and seek to void the contract for fraud independent of MLB discipline.

Look, if I had the skills and needed a boost before free agency, I'd use PEDs give the slap on the wrist sanctions in place. As it stands now, a guy like Braun can take a penalty that represents a third of his income for his least lucrative contract year, rest up until next year, and then come back and get paid the balance of his contract. That isn't a deterrent, it is a cost of doing business, like the anticipated cost of killing and maiming a certain number of people every year from exploding Ford Pinto cars rather than fixing the gas tank. Players like these a-holes need a hammer like punitive damages hanging over their heads so that they aren't tempted to make a cost-benefit analysis in the first place. "Oh no you don't" clauses are commonplace to prohibit risky activities like motorcycling or playing basketball, so why not for PED use?

As much as I would love to see that terminology in the contracts, I don't think players will agree to that, but I hope they do and maybe the union can get some leverage into that.

ctownboy
07-26-2013, 01:00 PM
I used to work in the financial services industry. I had to get a drug test before I was hired. I had to agree to being randomly tested (if they thought I was doing drugs) and they could fire me for a failed test. There was nothing athletic about my job. I am sure there are other professions where tkaing a drug test and failing it would also get you fired.

Now, if I (and others) had to go through that then I would think that if enough fans made enough of a stink about steroids and PED's then MLB and the Players Association would be able to hammer out a contract where players would get their contract voided or terminated for a failed test.

If the two sides couldn't or didn't agree about this then it would show which side was serious about getting the cheaters out of baseball and which wasn't.

David

t206blogcom
07-30-2013, 12:29 PM
Will today be the day we finally get the verdict?

barrysloate
08-05-2013, 01:22 PM
A-Rod has officially been banned through the end of the 2014 season...although it goes into effect August 8. Can't imagine he'll play the next three games, but who knows.

It's fair to say his career is over. Is he really going to come back right before his 40th birthday after having missed two whole seasons?

bbsports
08-05-2013, 01:37 PM
If George was alive today, what would he do with A-Rod?

t206blogcom
08-05-2013, 01:46 PM
So he'll fight it and end up with a lifetime ban, which he deserves in my opinion.

nolemmings
08-05-2013, 01:48 PM
They will tweak it downward as a result of the appeal, either the arbitrator himself or by a consensual agreement. They're handing him a what, 211 game suspension? Seems a little arbitrary if not capricious, doesn't it? If Selig wants to use the best interests of baseball clause of the CBA, go ahead and watch the manure fly; otherwise, by what authority do you discipline a previously unpunished player 211 games?

CaramelMan
08-05-2013, 02:25 PM
They will tweak it downward as a result of the appeal, either the arbitrator himself or by a consensual agreement. They're handing him a what, 211 game suspension? Seems a little arbitrary if not capricious, doesn't it? If Selig wants to use the best interests of baseball clause of the CBA, go ahead and watch the manure fly; otherwise, by what authority do you discipline a previously unpunished player 211 games?

I think said he got so many games because he tried to interfere with their investigation and he was the ring leader of biogenesis...and it was the third time he was caught...

MLB drug tests were antiquated..any player could take stuff that wouldnt be detected...."I never failed a drug test" is no longer a valid player argument..
MLB wised up and finally acted without a drug test (which rarely worked).

nolemmings
08-05-2013, 03:49 PM
MLB wised up and finally acted without a drug test (which rarely worked).

That's the point--they can't. They can't bargain and sign off on a document that says this is what will happen if you fail a drug test--first, second and third time--and then outright ignore what's in the document and, as importantly, impose what is not in the document. If you want to say that an admission or conviction is the same as a failed drug test, fine, then let's see where that goes. Then if you want to say you did it three times and therefore we can stack these offenses and treat them as three then try that--sounds arbitrary as hell to me, especially since you know those other offenders violated on more than one simple occasion and are being treated differently, and no one previously has been treated in this manner. Even then, though, you have to show me where it says three strikes equals 211 games-- it doesn't. If you think you have four or more offenses, show me what the punishment is then. If there is anything on point, I seriously doubt it says 211 games.

Finally, if you want to throw that impeding investigation stuff in there then show me what authority allows you to suspend for that. If it's the best interests of baseball clause, then bring it on and let (most) everything out in the open as would be allowed under a challenge to the CBA. Selig did not invoke that clause.

pgellis
08-05-2013, 03:50 PM
They will tweak it downward as a result of the appeal, either the arbitrator himself or by a consensual agreement. They're handing him a what, 211 game suspension? Seems a little arbitrary if not capricious, doesn't it? If Selig wants to use the best interests of baseball clause of the CBA, go ahead and watch the manure fly; otherwise, by what authority do you discipline a previously unpunished player 211 games?

Todd,
I couldn't agree with you more. He is getting more than 4x the amount of games as the other players. Now, if he were given a 50 game ban along with the others, I'm fairly confident he would take his punishment like the rest of them. But they are trying to make a statement with him. It is very arbitrary and will not fly. The best interest of baseball clause is too vague and will not stand.

I heard today that the result of his appeal will not be determined until November. So, he will be playing for the rest of the 2013 season.

It's funny how Yankee fans want him banned for life because of his contract. If he were playing great or only making $ 1 million, it wouldn't be a big deal to Yankee fans.

The funniest thing is that when he hits 14 more HRs, he will pass Willie Mays and be due another $6 million bonus for passing Mays. Atta boy Hank Steinbrenner, serves him right for trying to profit off an ARod run to break the career HR record.

CMIZ5290
08-05-2013, 04:22 PM
Interesting, but I heard he was suspended until the end of the 2014 season. Has anyone heard anything different?

EvilKing00
08-05-2013, 04:27 PM
FULL DISCLOUSURE: Im NOT a Yankee fan, I actually hate the Yankees.

He should of been given a 50 game just like everyone else. He didn't and never has (at least when it counted) tested positive. Everyone got 50. no wait , Braun got 65. OK, Braun did test positive, got caught, got off lied cost a innocent guy his job and got 65 days.

Arod should get 50. BUT.....

If MLB gave him 50 or even 65 im sure he would of gotten suspended, weather he accepted it asap, or if he appealed it he would of lost. but, whit this just DUMB 211 game suspension, I think he may and should win his appeal.

What rule has a 211 game suspension? I have heard the 50, 100 and even a life time ban. But each you still need to test positive. MLB I think has shot them selves in the foot. You make the rules you should play by them.

CharleyBrown
08-05-2013, 04:30 PM
Steve,

From my understanding, the lengthy suspension was not just due to the PEDs, but due to his blatant attempts to destroy evidence and cover up his wrongdoings in order to interfere with any sort of investigation.

FULL DISCLOUSURE: Im NOT a Yankee fan, I actually hate the Yankees.

He should of been given a 50 game just like everyone else. He didn't and never has (at least when it counted) tested positive. Everyone got 50. no wait , Braun got 65. OK, Braun did test positive, got caught, got off lied cost a innocent guy his job and got 65 days.

Arod should get 50. BUT.....

If MLB gave him 50 or even 65 im sure he would of gotten suspended, weather he accepted it asap, or if he appealed it he would of lost. but, whit this just DUMB 211 game suspension, I think he may and should win his appeal.

What rule has a 211 game suspension? I have heard the 50, 100 and even a life time ban. But each you still need to test positive. MLB I think has shot them selves in the foot. You make the rules you should play by them.

ullmandds
08-05-2013, 04:58 PM
Well...it looks like AROID is starting tonight...so about 1/2 of us/y'all were right...not me...I was hoping he'd never play again!!!:(

Leon
08-05-2013, 06:20 PM
Well...it looks like AROID is starting tonight...so about 1/2 of us/y'all were right...not me...I was hoping he'd never play again!!!:(


That wasn't the question. :) I would have hoped he didn't play again but I thought he would, so I voted that way.

barrysloate
08-05-2013, 06:40 PM
He hit a single his first time up...bloop over the shortstop's head. I guess he'll take it.:)

HRBAKER
08-05-2013, 06:43 PM
I bet Anthony Weiner is glad Arod is back.

Bocabirdman
08-05-2013, 06:44 PM
Let us not forget that ARod is an old man with a PED-riddled body. He likely has little left. Remember, he was pinch hit for with games on the line in the playoffs last year, bad hip not-withstanding. I don't believe he would be starting on a contending team. If he wasn't ARod, with that contract, the Yanks would have cut him already.

Brian Van Horn
08-05-2013, 06:47 PM
This is a farce. Throw this bum out.

EvilKing00
08-06-2013, 04:17 AM
Steve,

From my understanding, the lengthy suspension was not just due to the PEDs, but due to his blatant attempts to destroy evidence and cover up his wrongdoings in order to interfere with any sort of investigation.

yea I know, but was that collectively bargained? Do they have a rule for that with a set number of days for suspension? Im really interested to see where they got the 211 days from...That's going to be an issue.

CaramelMan
08-06-2013, 04:33 AM
yea I know, but was that collectively bargained? Do they have a rule for that with a set number of days for suspension? Im really interested to see where they got the 211 days from...That's going to be an issue.

They didn't pick 211 games....his offenses were so egregious, so much more than the other players, they suspended him for TWO seasons...the 211 is what is just happens to be...

It would have been 214 if it wasn't for the National....they had their decisions made by Friday but they were talked into waiting until the National was over...nothing to spoil card buying like steroids...thus the Monday announcement.

With Aroid, they never discussed the specific amount of games, they discussed in terms of YEARS.. They had that much evidence.

Notice not 1 of the other 12 players is fighting it, since they saw the conclusive evidence against them.

Just because it didn't go through a court or jury doesn't mean MLB has a weak case....they have an IRONCLAD case...MLBPA IS NOT FIGHTING ANYTHING, only AROID is fighting. His ego got hi in this mess and it continues to hurt him.

CharleyBrown
08-06-2013, 06:38 AM
In the passing conversations I have had with both the MLBPA General Counsel (I have taught his daughter for the last 2 years), and an MLB investigator working the case (family friend), MLB has a very strong case against A-Rod with evidence that goes well beyond the PEDs, and into obstruction.

I know that the MLBPA has advocated for A-Rod in a major way the past year, but I can't say I know exactly how the 211 game suspension was determined. I wouldn't be surprised if the MLBPA's patience is wearing thin with A-Rod, as he continues to pursue his own agenda. I believe Selig wants him out of baseball entirely, as he really is the posterchild of the PEDs era (that is still actively playing). I think they figure that if he's out for all of next season, it will be difficult for him to come back.

As he appeals the process, I think the # of games will drop, but he will at least miss all of next year.

CharleyBrown
08-06-2013, 06:40 AM
They didn't pick 211 games....his offenses were so egregious, so much more than the other players, they suspended him for TWO seasons...the 211 is what is just happens to be...

It would have been 214 if it wasn't for the National....they had their decisions made by Friday but they were talked into waiting until the National was over...nothing to spoil card buying like steroids...thus the Monday announcement.

With Aroid, they never discussed the specific amount of games, they discussed in terms of YEARS.. They had that much evidence.

Notice not 1 of the other 12 players is fighting it, since they saw the conclusive evidence against them.

Just because it didn't go through a court or jury doesn't mean MLB has a weak case....they have an IRONCLAD case...MLBPA IS NOT FIGHTING ANYTHING, only AROID is fighting. His ego got hi in this mess and it continues to hurt him.

+1

auggiedoggy
08-06-2013, 03:36 PM
Well, now we all know that this druggie will play the rest of the season until his case is heard in November. What a joke! He shouldn't be allowed to play until his case is resolved, which would basically mean his days would be finished in the Majors.

Apparently cheaters DO prosper. :(

EvilKing00
08-06-2013, 04:25 PM
They didn't pick 211 games....his offenses were so egregious, so much more than the other players, they suspended him for TWO seasons...the 211 is what is just happens to be...

It would have been 214 if it wasn't for the National....they had their decisions made by Friday but they were talked into waiting until the National was over...nothing to spoil card buying like steroids...thus the Monday announcement.

With Aroid, they never discussed the specific amount of games, they discussed in terms of YEARS.. They had that much evidence.

Notice not 1 of the other 12 players is fighting it, since they saw the conclusive evidence against them.

Just because it didn't go through a court or jury doesn't mean MLB has a weak case....they have an IRONCLAD case...MLBPA IS NOT FIGHTING ANYTHING, only AROID is fighting. His ego got hi in this mess and it continues to hurt him.

yes I know they didn't "pick" 211, and they just didn't want to see him for the rest of this year and next, but is this in the rules to do so? other players didn't fight it cause they all got what the "rule" says 50 games. except for Brawn, who was out right loud and demanding he did nothing, DID fail a test and got some poor guy fired for doing nothing wrong. They 4x arod. Look im not saying he dosnt deserve it, just saying #1 is it leagle? #2 did MLB make a big mistake doing this, cause if the judge (arbitrator) sees this is too much im not sure, if either #1 - he can suspend him for a lesser amount of games OR if the case is just dismissed and arod gets set free.