1964 Cassius Clay Stampa Pancho Pantera

[eagles33]

Does anyone have any information on this set? I have never heard of it before. The description was pretty good and sold me on it. A checklist or any information would be helpful when pitching it to the grading companies

"Card is part of a set dedicated to Olympic sports and was issued in Mexico by a chocolate flavored drink named Choco Milk a few months before the 1964 Olympic games. Card is 1.75x2.25”

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab137/eagles33/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0875_zps80f0d6b1.jpg

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab137/eagles33/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_0876_zpsb4e99d81.jpg

[Box-Cards]

I've never seen nor heard of this issue before in my own long history of researching Clay/Ali global cards. However, I contacted this card's listed eBay seller the same day it first appeared--asking both how they came up with "1964" or that it was connected with the "1964 Olympics" ... where this Mexican album card's art-image face was absolutely based on a fight action photo taken during the Nov. 11, 1965 bout between Floyd Patterson & Ali.

For confirmation, I told them to go to "Google Images" and put in "Patterson verses Ali"; the photo it was taken from shows up in the first couple of rows.

I also mentioned that being an 11/11/65 fight action photo, the earliest the card was likely issued probably had to be in 1966; and if in fact it was also "Olympics related" as purported, then that had to be the 1968 Olympics, not 1964; and as such, the card's year of issue may more likely be 1967 or early 1968 instead. I asked for an image of the card's full reverse in place of just the back's upper top that was shown. They promised to send me a full scan but never did.

Their explanation for labeling it "1964" was that its year had been "estimated" as '64 but they didn't know the its actual year, their estimation connected to something about a product-name on its back, never explaining what this product-name connection entailed.

A general word of caution is due here where I've been seeing more and more of this sort of thing of misinformation being offered--especially with Mexican Clay/Ali cards that weren't known to exist before by we in the United States: Foreign Ebay sellers have a recent history of putting very early 1960's dates on certain previously undocumented Clay/Ali global cards that had not been previously introduced into the U.S. collectibles hobby (to pump up interest and thus, maybe increase the final selling price?)

I told the seller the first day this card was offered that if he was "estimating" its year without actually knowing it, then that should be added into the item's title and description so collectors aren't misled. They ignored this request and didn't make any changes. One other problem sometimes happens when this type of thing goes on: Collectors who wind up with the improperly described card sometimes submit it to grading companies who themselves don't know anything about it either, then they slab it including whatever incorrect info the collector was lead to believe by the seller, and suddenly others in the hobby accept that misinformation as being written in stone. This happens regarding an issue's actual country of origin as well as year of production in other cases. Then other grading companies note the first grading company's error-description, take it as gospel because they don't know, and replicate it.
Suddenly collectors are debating one another over what's what because one or more grading company has something the same way, but still in error.

[Box-Cards]

A quick side-note here regarding the recent house fire, loss of collections, and hope to recover the prior research and work already done on completing the 'Ali Global Card Review' book authorship project:

The insurance company adjuster today wrote off and will be replacing my Mac G5 computer towers within which all past research and Global Review work existed. I also learned from him that under the terms of our comprehensive home owner's coverage, the insurance company is obligated to make every professional effort to extract the data that had been contained on their hard drives. So I have turned the metal housed towers that were exposed to the fire over to them to be handled by expert specialist in extracting such data.

This means to thank those certain Net54 members who kindly offered to assist me in the same realm should I fail to find an alternative source for the task. I greatly appreciate your concern and willingness to help...let's hope the experts available through the insurance company are successful; I'll keep you posted.

[eagles33]

Thanks for the information. Looks like I didn't score a factory cut card from 1964 like I had hoped... Oh well I only paid 50 bucks for it and if you haven't seen it before the bit must be pretty rare. Ill post a scan of the entire back once I get it. I asked the seller for a scan but never got one.

[wake.up.the.echoes]

I have actually seen this album before (at least a picture of one). I was under the impression that it was an album made to celebrate the Mexico City 1968 olympics. I think the letter "e" was cut off your card. I think the card back reads: estampa pancho pantera.

If i can find an image of the album, i will post it here.

Nice card though!

Alan

[eagles33]

Any luck digging up images of the album. Ill prob try to pitch this to psa so any info would be great. Thanks. The year and checklist are the biggest obstacles

[eagles33]

Here is a scan of the entire back if that helps


http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab137/eagles33/img387_zps407f0294.jpg

[eagles33]

I just got this back from BGS. It looks like they were able to identify it as being from 1968. I would be interested to see what other athletes are in the set.

http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab137/eagles33/img414_zps436257d7.jpg

[Box-Cards]

Now with my computer station finally fully replaced following my July 8th house fire (but still waiting for the former station's hard drive data to be scrub-rescued and received back)--I found a chance to visit past posts and post-add on's missed during the meanwhile.

I had been waiting to see the scan of this card's full obverse before the fire happened so I just checked back on the original posting. Noticed the card had also been slab-graded since I last checked, noticing it was labeled within the slab as being "Patterson/Ali." This was likely based on what I had previously contributed to this thread about the artwork having been based on a photo specifically taken during Floyd's bout with Muhammad...but I have to offer an opinion of my own here concerning the grading company calling the "title" of this card a "Patterson/Ali #42"; I feel it was incorrect to do so. The art is not representative of Patterson's actual image either in general or as specifically pictured in the photo taken during their bout. The 'person' getting hit by Muhammad in this card's art adaptation doesn't even look like Floyd and obviously wasn't meant to do so by the artist who merely drew in a generic (unknown/non-named) opponent for Ali but based on the photo shot that was taken during the Patterson/Ali fight.

Check the real fight-photo out on Google and then compare it to the artist' opponent drawn on this card--no match there. So, perhaps the grading company shouldn't have included "Patterson" as part of the slab's title name either. I'm just saying--because I seem to have contributed in some way that resulted in the grading company branding the card with a title that obviously should be considered misnamed. How ironic; one of my biggest pet peeves is seeing a card slab misnamed in its title, or credited to the wrong year or original country of origin.