Elliott Museum

[t206hound]

With my family vacationing in Florida for two weeks. We picked Jensen Beach because it's half way between Kennedy space center and pompano (where my aunt lives). Anyway, while looking for stuff to do around here, I found the Elliott Museum just down the road. They had an excellent Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and also have a room of baseball memorabilia. A few game used bats, autographed balls and cards. Most of autos were from 1975 to present, but I took photos of the t206s. Hope tapatalk uploads decent shots. I not, I will upload again when I get home.107515107516107517107518107519107520107521107 522107523107524

[t206hound]

Also snapped these two
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[t206hound]

And a couple of bats
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[atx840]

Thanks for sharing Erick..beautiful cards. Another shot.

http://media.tcpalm.com/media/img/photos/2009/09/29/0930_spt_mc_elliott_04_t607.jpg

[mrvster]

Paul is gonna freak out:D

[t206hound]

The coolest thing at the museum was the classic cars. They have them in a glass enclosed garage; three floors or them with two rows per floor. They have a mechanism in place where they send a series of lifts to go get a car from its spot, bring it down to the first level and rotate it 360 degrees (twice) before putting it back in its spot.

[T206Collector]

Paul is gonna freak out:D

I knew about this collection, but the website only showed Jennings, Evers and Huggins. Wow.


:eek:

[joshleland]

except for the possibility of the marquard those signed t206s are poor forgeries
im familiar with the collection of dan ginsburg and its "donation" to that fla museum
few if any t206s were signed prior to the collector era of the 1970s
josh evans

[T206Collector]

except for the possibility of the marquard those signed t206s are poor forgeries
im familiar with the collection of dan ginsburg and its "donation" to that fla museum
few if any t206s were signed prior to the collector era of the 1970s
josh evans

While I am highly suspicious of all of these signatures, except for the Larry Doyle and the Rube Marquard, it simply is not accurate to suggest that no T206s were signed prior to the 1970s. While most were signed in the wake of the publication of The Glory of Their Times in 1966, we know based on objective facts that at least hobby legends Jeff Morey and John Wagner were quite active in their pursuit of signed tobacco cards as early as the mid-1950s.

For instance, we can see in the following letter from Fred Snodgrass to John Wagner that he was returning a signed "Cigarette Photo card" which was a T206 Snodgrass batting:

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/iVnw95YshRKaNIq75mOrtYRT3dysq2WPtX5u9gk-z0Y?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-HbKQUVfXNZ8/SuOjGjWAmZI/AAAAAAAAJac/eIFVZa075C8/s800/Sno%2520Letter.jpg" height="800" width="551" /></a>

Nonetheless, I would agree that any T206 card purportedly signed by a player who died before 1940 -- like, e.g., Keeler, Jennings, and Huggins -- should be treated as presumptively fraudulent, without a tremendous amount of provenance, or at least multiple opinions from trusted experts.

[milkit1]

I hope someone can post pics of the commons :)

[T206Collector]

I hope someone can post pics of the commons :)

Putting aside the strip card, an extensive signed T206 collection without a Marquard a Snodgrass is inherently suspect.

It's like the old adage - when people think they were someone else in a former life, why are they always famous or special people?

(In fairness to the Elliott Museum, Larry Doyle is a common and looks authentic to me.)

[Mark]

And a couple of bats
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Interesting. What do the cards by the bats say?

[t206hound]

Interesting. What do the cards by the bats say?

In all photos marked as game used except where noted, from left to right:

Heinie Zimmerman; Shoeless Joe Jackson
http://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107527&d=1374526963

Hal Chase; Benny Kauf
http://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107528&d=1374526973

Roberto Clemente (pro model); Babe Ruth; Ty Cobb
http://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107529&d=1374526981

[Mark]

Thanks, though, sigh, I really could use a Heinie Zimmerman bat in my own collection.

[Republicaninmass]

I've never seen a Miller J. Huggins, without the J and H connected, unless it has his full middle name, James.

[PhillipAbbott79]

With my family vacationing in Florida for two weeks. We picked Jensen Beach because it's half way between Kennedy space center and pompano (where my aunt lives). Anyway, while looking for stuff to do around here, I found the Elliott Museum just down the road. They had an excellent Leonardo da Vinci exhibit and also have a room of baseball memorabilia. A few game used bats, autographed balls and cards. Most of autos were from 1975 to present, but I took photos of the t206s. Hope tapatalk uploads decent shots. I not, I will upload again when I get home.107515107516107517107518107519107520107521107 522107523107524

Yes. And that one was deemed fake here: http://www.signedt206.com/unreal-signed-t206s. I am only presuming that this is accurate but am leading toward that it is. I find it highly suspicious that it is signed in a very similar spot and style.

[Republicaninmass]

Yes. And that one was deemed fake here: http://www.signedt206.com/unreal-signed-t206s. I am only presuming that this is accurate but am leading toward that it is. I find it highly suspicious that it is signed in a very similar spot and style.

He should have signed horizontally, or vertically but across his image

[PhillipAbbott79]

Well, a lot of cards are signed in different locations on a card by the same player. Some across horizontally and vertically.

Given that I have only see 2 total signed cards of him, and the person who follow it the most believes that one is a fake, the chances are very high, no offense, that yours is also.

It would not be uncommon for a person to make 2 fakes to help legitimize them for one reason or another. It is also possible that someone made a fake to look like one that is real.

Correct, it makes me suspicious. As noted before I no longer have a horse in the game. It may be real. It may not be. I am not an expert and merely speculating based on what I can see.

[btcarfagno]

except for the possibility of the marquard those signed t206s are poor forgeries
im familiar with the collection of dan ginsburg and its "donation" to that fla museum
few if any t206s were signed prior to the collector era of the 1970s
josh evans

This. None of the T206 HOF signed cards look close to real.

Tom C

[Republicaninmass]

I am not an expert and merely speculating based on what I can see.

So your childish USD comment was based on the fact you think it was a fake, or you were really confused after I had already given you a range?

I can understand your comment and everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, instead of comparing it to an alleged fake, just use PSA autograph facts, and google images, and see the 4-5 examples signed M. J. Huggins. The Elliott museum doesn't even look close to them, or to mine that has a COA from one of the most reputable board members, who's probably seen more fakes, of not only Huggins but hundreds of others including the most prominent forgers, than any of us.

[PhillipAbbott79]

So your childish USD comment was based on the fact you think it was a fake, or you were really confused after I had already given you a range?

I can understand your comment and everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, instead of comparing it to an alleged fake, just use PSA autograph facts, and google images, and see the 4-5 examples signed M. J. Huggins. The Elliott museum doesn't even look close to them, or to mine that has a COA from one of the most reputable board members, who's probably seen more fakes, of not only Huggins but hundreds of others including the most prominent forgers, than any of us.

My words were exactly how I said them the first time. Feel free to re-read them.

I have looked at the images you mentioned before my last post, and I still believe, in my opinion(formulated long after my post on your BST for clarification) that there is a very high chance it is fake.

Even the person you cite as the most holy and reputable has admitted on their geocities website, that when tested, missed 1 in 7 fake examples with a direct quote: "I examined seven different items and correctly identified six of them." That equates to roughly 15 percent of the time missing a fake.

No offense to who that person is, but that is still a very high percentage, to fork out 20,000 USD over. No further disrespect meant or needed. You will either sell it or you won't, right?

[2dueces]

They had an excellent Leonardo da Vinci.

Did you get pics of the da Vinci?