Discussion and questions on e105's

[rainier2004]

I have always liked Mello-Mints and have spent a few minutes looking at the pop reports and am amazed at how rare these cards truly are. There are 50 cards in the set with 4 players being represented on two cards (Miller, Doyle, Bender and Wagner). SGC shows an additional unlabeled variation for both Wagner and Bender with pops of 7 and 2. I am unclear as to what these variations are and is my first question. When looking at the pop reports from SGC, PSA and BVG there are a total of 375 graded examples of Mello-Mints and 7 cards make up 42.7% of that entire population:
1. Gibson 12 Examples
2. Miller (batting) 14
3. Hartsell 18
4. LaJoie 21
5. Bescher 21
6. Young 34
7. Knight 40 - The final 2 cards on the list comprise 19.7% of the entire population of e105s

There are 7 cards with only a single graded card:
Bridwell, Chase, Collins, Devlin, McLean, O'Hara and Tinker

There are another 6 cards with 2 graded examples meaning one-quarter of this set has a single or only 2 graded examples floating round:
Bender (White hat), Bender (other variation), Crawford, Doolan, Jacklitsch and Jennings

Out of the 52 cards, their populations break down as followed with the majority of cards having between 3 and 10 graded examples:
1 example - 7 cards
2 examples - 6 cards
3-5 examples - 16 cards
6-10 examples - 16 cards
11+ examples - 7 cards

There are 6 cards that PSA has the only graded copy and 4 cards that only SGC has graded. This leads me to the rest of my questions on this set. First, what percentage of Mello-Mints are graded? Is there the presumption that more will surface as they were distributed only in Texas or are we done? I would think there has to be a few more residing in that big state hidden away. Lipset wrote all cards were equal in population, but these numbers beg to differ 35 years and an internet later. I have seen very few raw examples in the past couple years. Would this have to rank as one of the impossible sets? Are there any set collectors hiding out there? I know there has been a couple member here that tried and stopped and another couple more that I thought were attempting this massive feat. Any input, pics or help would be more than appreciated.

[familytoad]

Steve
Thanks for posting...
This is an intriguing set, one that I have thought about doing, but I came to my senses...
Tough cards.
I believe the distribution is unequal, like you say.

I have no evidence to support my theory that there are many more raw cards in collections as compared to pop reports. Maybe because they are low grade for the most part, and would probably only be graded when consigned or prepped to sell. I could be wrong, it's happened:D

For the record, I have a SGC Lajoie and a raw Wagner (batting) .
I will eventually get the Wags graded by SGC.

While I'd like to hear more about this set, what's out there, and the other theories, I hope it doesn't pull me in to try and buy more:o

[Danny Smith]

I have 22 mello mints and am slowly working on the set. There is another member on the board who I believe is close to 40 cards in the set. I have discovered 4 raw cards in VA and NC from original collections. The rest of them have been graded purchases.

As noted above the distribution is not at all equal. The higher pop cards were part of a couple large finds a few years back and are generally the highest graded as they were found without the crease down the middle.

I love this underrated set because of its mystery and scarcity and have been pretty fortunate to find the ones I have. Ill again be on the hunt at the national for them.

Danny

[E93]

I was going for the set for a while and got up to about 20 before I gave up. The tougher ones are super tough. I kept two examples of those 20.
JimB

[rainier2004]

I was going for the set for a while and got up to about 20 before I gave up. The tougher ones are super tough. I kept two examples of those 20.
JimB

What was your experience as far as finding them raw?

[Stonepony]

I sold an incredible PSA 7 Patsy Doughery Mello-Mint through an auction house this Spring. Population prior to that sale was 1 PSA 2. I was hoping for strong action as the set, and that player within the set are fairly scare. I was disappointed in the hammer price...perhaps the issue just isn't that popular....

[sb1]

Somewhere in the distant past I bought a hoard of E105's(approx. 66 I believe). This is where a large part of the graded ones came from. Most were graded, some by PSA and some SGC, and about 20 of each were Bescher and Knight most of these were all high grade 6's and 7's. As I recall there were about 8 more players in the group, with some having a half dozen and some being one of ones. Later from the same source I bought 6 Cy Youngs. All of these were from an original accumulation put away many years ago by a non collector. These came from either South Carolina or North Carolina, I can't recall which. None of them had been creased vertically, even the few lower grade ones.

[RCMcKenzie]

From 1997-2001 I assembled 22 different examples.

To answer your question about Wagner and Bender...It's Wagner bat and throw and Bender white hat, striped hat.

I had a raw O'Hara that was a conservative vg/e, so that is not the lone PSA example that is graded 1.

I had a raw McLean that was fair, so that could possibly be the now graded example of PSA 1, or maybe not.

On the crease... My belief is that one employee had the habit of creasing the cards before placing them in the gum package. The other four or five employees did not fold them. My anecdotal look at the set showed me that about 1 in 4 or 5 was creased.

The set could be completed because all 50 are known to exist, but you would need a lot of co-operation between fellow collectors.

[Leon]

I sold an incredible PSA 7 Patsy Doughery Mello-Mint through an auction house this Spring. Population prior to that sale was 1 PSA 2. I was hoping for strong action as the set, and that player within the set are fairly scare. I was disappointed in the hammer price...perhaps the issue just isn't that popular....

If I have said it once I have said it a million times :). The demand side of the equation is far more important, in our space, than the supply side for determining value. Yes, they both have a bearing on the value side of the equation, however the demand side is much more important.

But to the original questions, I have my opinion in RED. - then a more common HOF'er picked up raw on ebay, 10+ yrs ago...

There are 6 cards that PSA has the only graded copy and 4 cards that only SGC has graded. This leads me to the rest of my questions on this set. First, what percentage of Mello-Mints are graded? 25% & debateable Is there the presumption that more will surface as they were distributed only in Texas or are we done? I would think there has to be a few more residing in that big state hidden away. I think more will surface. Lipset wrote all cards were equal in population, but these numbers beg to differ 35 years and an internet later. I have seen very few raw examples in the past couple years. Would this have to rank as one of the impossible sets? Almost Nothing is impossible Are there any set collectors hiding out there? Yes, not me. :) I know there has been a couple member here that tried and stopped and another couple more that I thought were attempting this massive feat. Any input, pics or help would be more than appreciated.

[cfc1909]

I collect Bender white & stripe cap cards but only when the caption is Baltimore. E106 Bender is Baltimore caption and e105 Bender is Philadelphia caption. Same pose different back. So my lone e105 for my type is Hartsel purchased about 6 or 8 years ago.

http://photos.imageevent.com/cfc1909cards/typecards/websize/Hartsel.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/cfc1909cards/typecards/websize/Hartselb.jpg

never really attempted the set and just picked up a vg example as a type. thanks for the detailed information on the population of the set.

I don't know of any complete sets. I know of one close to complete and it is raw. Not sure how many cards are missing but I think its just 2.

[rainier2004]

To answer your question about Wagner and Bender...It's Wagner bat and throw and Bender white hat, striped hat.


SGC shows 3 versions for each player with the above 2 versions mentioned for each player...what is the 3rd version of the Wagner and Bender?

[RCMcKenzie]

In each case, SGC did not differentiate between the two variations. In other words the flip does not indicate either variation, so it creates a third flip variation, but not an actual card variation.

Nice Hartsel example, Jim. I may have to start collecting this set again. Should I start with the Mathewson on BST?

[cfc1909]

Rob is right on Bender and Wagner. As far as I know there are only 2 each

[4815162342]

I started collecting this set exclusively a few years ago, and have slowly picked up 6 examples and a wrapper. I've enjoyed finding what little information that I've been able to come across online about the company - newspaper ads, pictures, court cases, etc. I see collecting this set as a lifelong endeavor. I'm holding out hope for a major find!

[Danny Smith]

Slim pickings for mello mints at the national but picked up a e105 Wagner batting from my boys at TonyETrade. Apparently there were a couple folks looking for mello mints. I'm pumped the set is picking up steam.

[4815162342]

I was one of them Danny. I probably asked every prewar dealer there. Glad to hear you picked up that Wagner! I've seen it at this National (yesterday) and the last one, and on eBay.

[rainier2004]

Slim pickings for mello mints at the national but picked up a e105 Wagner batting from my boys at TonyETrade. Apparently there were a couple folks looking for mello mints. I'm pumped the set is picking up steam.

Nice Danny, I stared at that one for a moment and reminded myself I was looking for the CJ Wags.

[pete zouras]

My mello-mint typecard. Interesting thread!

[Leon]

Slim pickings for mello mints at the national but picked up a e105 Wagner batting from my boys at TonyETrade. Apparently there were a couple folks looking for mello mints. I'm pumped the set is picking up steam.

Great card. Tony got that one from me several years ago. I forget where I got it....

[Danny Smith]

I was one of them Danny. I probably asked every prewar dealer there. Glad to hear you picked up that Wagner! I've seen it at this National (yesterday) and the last one, and on eBay.

Apparently I was ten minutes behind you! That's all I heard from the dealers. Pretty funny. Any luck?

[ScottFandango]

Steve, thanks for the research on this very difficult set....

I need my joe Jackson e90-1 before I go for the mello...

Good luck to those who attempt...

Steve, you ask for trouble don't you? First the 14 CJs now this...:p

[4815162342]

Apparently I was ten minutes behind you! That's all I heard from the dealers. Pretty funny. Any luck?

No luck yesterday, doubtful tomorrow. But the Cubs game is great so far (back to back homers!), Giordano's was delicious this afternoon and Gibson's was awesome last night!

[4815162342]

108464
108465
108466
108467

[rainier2004]

Steve, thanks for the research on this very difficult set....

I need my joe Jackson e90-1 before I go for the mello...

Good luck to those who attempt...

Steve, you ask for trouble don't you? First the 14 CJs now this...:p

I'm not sniffing this set...yet, but it would be ever so sweet.

I did have a pipe dream on the 1914s, but in the end here most of mine are 1915s. I have a few HOFers including the Chance and a no number Bres. I got the other 3 cards (Callahan, Cashion and Lord) that aren't included in the 1915s, but that Pratt is pricey and the wife would hang me if I ever bought a 1914 Matty - total dream card there. Im just happy to be 1 card shy!

Looks like you had a nice day Daryl!

[4815162342]

I did have some luck after all - picked up this dupe.
108516108517

[rainier2004]

I did have some luck after all - picked up this dupe.
108516108517

That's friggin beautiful

[Danny Smith]

Nice grab.

[sb1]

But we will have a nice E105 Larry McLean in our next B & L auction. It's off to SGC in the next couple of days. To date I can only find the PSA 1 referenced above of this scarce E105, but there are bound to be other raw ones out there. It will be the first one graded by SGC.

[4815162342]

Excellent.