Legendary Live auction LOT#6 & t206

[Bicem]

Just curious as to why this piece is being attributed to Carl Horner?

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=158575&searchby=0&searchvalue=None&page=0&sortby=7&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1&seo=Spectacular-1908-New-York-Giants-Horner-Composite-Imperial-Cabinet-Photo-Featuring-Mathewson-and-McG

I'm thinking this piece shows that many of the famed t206 images (like Matty) are actually Hall photos and not Horner. None of the portraits are recognizable Horner cabinets that I've seen and they don't really resemble his work (to me at least).

Am I missing something?

[wonkaticket]

Jeff, agree not following the Horner connection. Amazing item for the record.

[sox1903wschamp]

Yeah, nice item but I do not see the Horner connection.

[barrysloate]

Did you notice that there isn't a single baseball card in the auction? That's strange.

[Rich Klein]

This does say its a preview, if more items are added, you might have some cards added

Rich

[barrysloate]

Rich- I got the catalog in the mail yesterday. I assume that's the complete auction.

[HRBAKER]

There are several neat items if you want to start collecting items that are "possibly" something.

[Leon]

From the piece and the description I don't see the connection to Horner. Also, count me in the camp of someone who doesn't really care for the look of it either.

[pawpawdiv9]

Got my catalog in the mail yesterday..I totally forgot i had registered for this auction.
Been getting some nice catalogs in past weeks --Goldin, Goodwin and now Legendary

[e107collector]

Did you notice that there isn't a single baseball card in the auction? That's strange.

Barry,

I noticed the same thing - not 1 card. Unless they are saving them for their next auction, that is 2 weeks after the National?

Also, prior Live auctions, they had around 100 lots, this auction has 59.

Tony

[bn2cardz]

I attributed there not being a single card to the fact that they are calling this a "Memorabilia" auction. When the catalog came yesterday I was surprised because I knew this auction didn't have many items in it. Then I noticed each item was getting 2-3 pages.

As a side note I hated the catalog. I couldn't read a lot of it without straining my eyes because the font was too skinny for the printing process so the color washed out the skinny parts on the fonts. I like the pictures though :D

[barrysloate]

Agreed. Trying to read the white print against a blue background was nearly impossible. Whoever designed it didn't do a good job.

[tschock]

Agreed. Trying to read the white print against a blue background was nearly impossible. Whoever designed it didn't do a good job.

Agreed! White print on ANY color background is asking for readability issues.
Couldn't they just have had black text on a white/cream/soft background with the colored background acting as a border? Or better yet, fading into the white/cream/soft background around the black text?

[drcy]

If it's not Horner, there's a strong chance it was another prominent photographer who took the Giants portraits. It would be an established New York studio taking their team portraits. BJ Falk photographed Giants players in the early 1900s, and he's would qualify as a big name photographer.

[MVSNYC]

Got my catalog in the mail yesterday..I totally forgot i had registered for this auction.
Been getting some nice catalogs in past weeks --Goldin, Goodwin and now Legendary


Chris- call Heritage to get their live auction catalog. it's pretty awesome.

[Bicem]

If it's not Horner, there's a strong chance it was another prominent photographer who took the Giants portraits. It would be an established New York studio taking their team portraits. BJ Falk photographed Giants players in the early 1900s, and he's would qualify as a big name photographer.

Is it not safe to assume the photographer was J Hall based on the credit?

[drcy]

I just glanced at the photo and read the comments. Didn't even notice the J Hall.

I remember when the owner posted pics of this photo a few months back. The key quality is its humongous size. For old display photos, the bigger the rarer and more valuable, and that's about as big as photos got back then.

[steve B]

Just a guess, but I think it's a pasteup for a Spalding page that wasn't used. The 1909 guide has a few similar composites that use images shared with T206. None have the team name or any photographer info in the picture.

Maybe some other publication used them too?


Trying this link, the 1909 guide is available as a free e-book from google.

http://books.google.com/books?id=E6gpAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA1-PA383&dq=spaldings+official+baseball+guide+1909&hl=en&sa=X&ei=0pDpUahSj93gA-DkgagB&ved=0CFQQ6AEwBTgy#v=onepage&q=spaldings%20official%20baseball%20guide%201909&f=false

Steve B

[drcy]

Supporting Steve's idea, I think there's a fair chance it was the original art used to make something else. What the something else might be I don't know-- could be cabinet cards, postcards, a publication picture, banquet program. If the photo includes original hand drawn design and text, that would support the original art theory. And original art composites were often oversized.

[drcy]

If you want my guess, it's an original Joseph Hall composite design used to make cabinet cards or some other items. Though most of his baseball photos date to the 1800s, he was still working in 1908. Joseph Hall is as big a name as Horner.

[murcerfan]

I tried to read the ridiculously small white text on the funky brown background.....gave up.... threw catalog in the garbage.

[atx840]

At least recycle it!

[drcy]

I agree the print catalog was not easy to read. Darker backgrounds next time.

In their defense, they usually make some of the nicest looking catalogs. Artistically-speaking. Someone puts creative though into the designs. It's just their experiment in colors didn't quite work this time.

[Shoeless Moe]

Fire that printer! or whoever approved it, brutal, well don't fire them but you get my point, couldn't read most of it, so tossed it as well. Worst catalog I've rec'd from any auction house to date.

[bostonmarathonman]

I wholeheartedly agree with all of you guys who are complaining about the poor print quality or "hard to read-didness" (sorry, I'm making up my own words here) of the catalog. I'm a 44 year old with 20-20 vision, have never worn nor needed glasses, contacts or a loupe, yet I abhor their choice of a tiny, thin white print on some of these dark colored backgrounds; on some pages/colors its not too bad and is legible but on others its just downright horrific!! The first time I saw the word "Ruth" in the description of one of the many Babe Ruth-related lots I thought they spelled his name wrong and it said "Puth" but I soon realized it did indeed say "Ruth": it only looked like "Puth" because the diagonal line that turns a P into an R was barely visible; it wasnt until I saw his name mentioned again later in the description that I realized it wasnt a spelling error but rather a font/color problem as most of the capital R's in the catalog look like P's; if they used the bold white print that is on page 60 throughout the entire catalog there wouldnt be any problem.

And this isnt the first time one of their catalogs has had this problem; at least one or more of their dreier collection catalogs had the same almost-illegible white print; if you still have them, take a look at one of those and you'll see what I mean!

[dallen]

Thanks for pointing out our error. The modification/clarification below was recently posted on the site. Additionally, we decided not to include cards in our offering this year. It is our opinion that other than high profile cards like T206 Wagner and the like mainstream Cards do not perform as well in a Live Auction format. Last year when we reduced our offering to 63 lots we did include a few card lots like a T205 and T206 set but this year chose to stick to memorabilia. As always if anyone has questions I can be reached at dallen@legendaryauctions.com.

PLEASE NOTE THAT MANY OF THE IMAGES USED FOR THIS PHOTO ARE THE SAME IMAGES USED FOR THE SAME SUBJECTS IN THE T206 SET. THIS INCLUDES HOFers: MATHEWSON, MCGRAW, BRESNAHAN AND MARQUARD. IN ERROR WE TIED THESE IMAGES TO FAMED PHOTOGRAPHER CARL HORNER WHO ALBEIT A PHOTOGRAPHER FOR MANY SUBJECTS OF THE T206 SET WAS NOT THE PHOTOGRAPHER FOR THIS DISPLAY. WE HAVE DONE SIGNIFICAN RESEARCH BUT HAVE BEEN UNABLE TO CONFIRM IF THE "J HALL" REFERRED TO ON THIS PIECE IS THE FAMOUS JOSEPH HALL WHO STILL HAD AN ACTIVE STUDIO AT THIS TIME.

[thehoodedcoder]

for lot number 6. they put this as one of the prized pieces in their auction.

looks like they missed the mark on the price by probably a significant amount.

kevin

[Bicem]

still a great piece even without Horner being attached to it, would love to own it.

[drcy]

I agree. It's a unique piece. My earlier comments were intended to diminish the value.