Future pre-war card scam...

[vintagetoppsguy]

just waiting to happen...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PSA-and-SGC-card-cases-of-High-Dollar-cards-neat-different-lot-/251305183289?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item3a82f4c839#ht_83wt_1172

[Tobacco&Gum]

Unreal!:mad:

[ullmandds]

crazy is right? he asked the TPG's to "buy them back?" What a lunatic!

[brianp-beme]

Shhhh! The seller is one of us:(

Brian

[rjackson44]

Holy smokes David thanks for posting.Now I've seen it all.:eek:

[JoeyF1981]

just waiting to happen...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PSA-and-SGC-card-cases-of-High-Dollar-cards-neat-different-lot-/251305183289?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item3a82f4c839#ht_83wt_1172

Wow! I cant believe ebay is actually allowing him to sell those.

[Gobucsmagic74]

I wrote him and thanked him in advance for all the potential scams and heartache that may be caused by him putting these back into the market. Will update if he writes back.

[insccollectibles]

Wow. Hopefully he will remove.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Shhhh! The seller is one of us:(

Brian

That makes it even more disgusting!

[christopher.herman]

Not cool. PSA and SGC should contact ebay directly about this.

[ScottFandango]

did he think people search for things that are "neat" and this would come up...

at least this is an equal opportunity situation and not a lone PSA issue...

[UOFLfan7]

That's awful. Those are no doubt going to be used to scam people out of their hard earned money.

[EvilKing00]

that should be illegal, as its can only be used in a fraud, to re-use the holders and scam someone.

[wonkaticket]

LOL, would you like to buy back my broken E106 PSA 1MK Tinker case? :rolleyes:

[7nohitter]

He best come forward...is he going to pretend that he didn' know what he was doing? Pathetic.

[chipperhank44]

Precisely why I love BVG holders.

[ScottFandango]

Precisely why I love BVG holders.

GARBAGE PLASTIC....BGS scratches very easy, and it is not optically clear...gets fuzzy over time....hold psa, sgc, and bgs slabs together of the same card and you should clearly see the difference...

and now with Anderson leaving Beckett...hold your hats, this could get ugly....Tom Brady 9.5's anyone?????

[the 'stache]

I'm sorry, but this is utter crap. The seller should know full well that a buyer could potentially use these slabs + flips to steal from somebody else.

I want to report this guy, but need a suggestion on how to do so? What category would this best fall under?

[vintagetoppsguy]

I want to report this guy, but need a suggestion on how to do so? What category would this best fall under?

I think this falls under the "turn-key scammer operation kit" category :D

[Cardboard Junkie]

At a time in the not so distant past, wrappers were thought to have little if any value. One might surmise that used wax wrappers could only be used to rewrap cards and then sell them as unopened packs. This would NOT be the fault of the seller. There is nothing wrong with selling your own plastic holders and flips, and indeed one day they might have some collectible value.

I don't think this seller, member or not, is doing anything wrong. I also think he is letting us all know that tpg services don't care or give a shite about the whole security issue. If they did the tpg's would want the used flips and slabs off the market. Obviously they don't.

I realize I am in the minority here, just don't think the guy trying to prove a point, (about the lack of concern of tpg's) and trying to recoup some funds by seeling off the Potentially collectible flips and slabs is wrong.

OK....let's hear it! Dave.

[kmac32]

At a time in the not so distant past, wrappers were thought to have little if any value. One might surmise that used wax wrappers could only be used to rewrap cards and then sell them as unopened packs. This would NOT be the fault of the seller. There is nothing wrong with selling your own plastic holders and flips, and indeed one day they might have some collectible value.

I don't think this seller, member or not, is doing anything wrong. I also think he is letting us all know that tpg services don't care or give a shite about the whole security issue. If they did the tpg's would want the used flips and slabs off the market. Obviously they don't.

I realize I am in the minority here, just don't think the guy trying to prove a point, (about the lack of concern of tpg's) and trying to recoup some funds by seeling off the Potentially collectible flips and slabs is wrong.

OK....let's hear it! Dave.

Actually, I have some hand cut Koester bread cards that I sent to SGC for grading. They returned them with a flip having NNO designation packaged in between the plastic holders but not encapsulated. I took the cases and put the NNO flip in like a normal card as all I was interested in was for display. If I went to sell the cards, I would remove them before sale so to not misrepresent TPG grading.

My other option which I may do is send these cards to PSA for grading and have an official grade. Either way I would not sell these cards as SGC graded.

[thehoodedcoder]

my email:

you douche....

why would you give a scammer a real flip and real case?

what is wrong with you.

kevin

[Cardboard Junkie]

my email:

you douche....

why would you give a scammer a real flip and real case?

what is wrong with you.

kevin

Kevin, who is the "scammer" you are referring to? Dave.

[auggiedoggy]

This item should be reported!!! :eek:

This person is a forum member? :(

[brianp-beme]

The seller's name is Jim Manos.

Brian

[ullmandds]

well...jim has always been a flipper?!

[oldcardboard]

Some people dont make enough money flippin burgers at McD's.

[CobbvLajoie1910]

Jim's '13 REA catalog must not have sold.

Let's give the guy a break here...

[brewing]

Not cool. PSA and SGC should contact ebay directly about this.

While I agree with the concerns. I believe SGC and PSA should make cases that are more tamper resistant. While I abhor the quality of Becket vintage grading, their cases are tamper resistant.

[sb1]

Easy solution, spend $10 buy them and destroy them.

[yanks12025]

If you guys cared so much, why not just pay the $10 for them and destroy them.

[UOFLfan7]

If you guys cared so much, why not just pay the $10 for them and destroy them.

Good idea, except it would be a waste of $10, and in today's economy...well you know haha.

Anyways, I don't agree with what the seller is doing, but I understand that he isn't breaking any laws. He/she is simply selling empty PSA and Beckett cases. What the buyer does with them has nothing to do with the seller. Its a shame that we have to even have a conversation about this, and what I mean by that is, its sad that forgery is so common nowadays and that there are so many people trying to deceive others.

There shouldn't be anything wrong with the seller is doing, but there is and that's because of how common forgers and conmen and conwomen are in this hobby. I wish things were different, but you always have to be cautious when collection baseball cards. That's one reason the hobby isn't what it used to be. I still love it, and I count myself as someone new to the hobby (Started collecting last year after I got a bunch of cards for my 17th birthday...not even a fan of baseball, but I love baseball cards haha), so I know how hard it is to get into collecting baseball cards. I made many mistakes last year, buying fakes and reprints. You know what they say though, learn from your mistakes, and that's what I did. Read up on baseball cards, joined this forum, and started a pretty good relationship with my local hobby shop owner.

As I said though, forgers are really killing this hobby and making it hard for people new to the hobby to get a good start and not feel helpless.

Just my two cents on this entire thing though, everybody has their own opinions of course..

[vintagetoppsguy]

If you guys cared so much, why not just pay the $10 for them and destroy them.

It is an auction, not a BIN. $10 is just the opening bid. I have a feeling they will sell for quite a bit more.

[oddball]

Ugh. Stuff like this makes me vomit in my mouth. :(

[yanks12025]

It is an auction, not a BIN. $10 is just the opening bid. I have a feeling they will sell for quite a bit more.

He had them listed before and no one bought them.

[oldcardboard]

Good idea, except it would be a waste of $10, and in today's economy...well you know haha.

Anyways, I don't agree with what the seller is doing, but I understand that he isn't breaking any laws. He/she is simply selling empty PSA and Beckett cases. What the buyer does with them has nothing to do with the seller. Its a shame that we have to even have a conversation about this, and what I mean by that is, its sad that forgery is so common nowadays and that there are so many people trying to deceive others.

There shouldn't be anything wrong with the seller is doing, but there is and that's because of how common forgers and conmen and conwomen are in this hobby. I wish things were different, but you always have to be cautious when collection baseball cards. That's one reason the hobby isn't what it used to be. I still love it, and I count myself as someone new to the hobby (Started collecting last year after I got a bunch of cards for my 17th birthday...not even a fan of baseball, but I love baseball cards haha), so I know how hard it is to get into collecting baseball cards. I made many mistakes last year, buying fakes and reprints. You know what they say though, learn from your mistakes, and that's what I did. Read up on baseball cards, joined this forum, and started a pretty good relationship with my local hobby shop owner.

As I said though, forgers are really killing this hobby and making it hard for people new to the hobby to get a good start and not feel helpless.

Just my two cents on this entire thing though, everybody has their own opinions of course..

Yes forgers are not helping and neither are the people selling kits to help make thier job easier. For what, a few extra bucks? If you need money that bad, find another hobby, like maybe work.

[ScottFandango]

Probably has no job because he can barely write....how many grammar mistakes are in that listing? Sad

[johnmh71]

I do plan on buying them without going crazy on the price and I'll smash them to bits. I hate liars, frauds, and scammers. There is way too much of that crap in the hobby already.

[Tao_Moko]

This is just an itty bitty piece of the bigger problem that is tpg. I have a stack of over 100 flips that I keep in a drawer because the tpg's don't seem to care about getting them back. Bottom line is that they need to either get better quickly, reduce their fees substantially or become obsolete. Why not just glue the flip in and give it a foil that if peeled off becomes ruined. There's got to be something simple and low cost they can do.

[mintacular]

I do plan on buying them without going crazy on the price and I'll smash them to bits. I hate liars, frauds, and scammers. There is way too much of that crap in the hobby already.

Be careful, while your intentions might be good it will be on your eBay record and others might assume/think you are the scammer purchasing them for future rip-offs.

[conor912]

It's got a bid.

[Eric72]

I do plan on buying them without going crazy on the price and I'll smash them to bits. I hate liars, frauds, and scammers. There is way too much of that crap in the hobby already.

John,

I applaud your idea and agree, in principle, with what you propose. If you choose to take this route, please document the destruction on YouTube or a similar venue and then post the link here on Net54.

If it were me, I would create a video that showed everything from the opening of the package and smashing of the contents to the close-up images of and then literally burning the paper flips...in one continuous take.

Again, I am on your side at this point. Having said that, I chose not to go down a similar path because the simple act of purchasing these might cast a cloud of suspicion upon the buyer.

Just my two cents.

Best Regards,

Eric

[johnmh71]

Eric:

That is my bid. I'll be sure to share.

John

[the 'stache]

Thank you, John. :)

[timn1]

may be a presence on this board, but I have never considered him "one of us" --

[wonkaticket]

John, be sure to use your coupon.

http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/junkforumimages/88.jpg

[uffda51]

Buy the holder, not the card . . .

[npa589]

I thought the negative on his eBay profile was rather funny:

"Poorly packed photo arrived creased. Sellers only action was to misspell 'soryy'"

[Luke]

I thought the negative on his eBay profile was rather funny:

"Poorly packed photo arrived creased. Sellers only action was to misspell 'soryy'"

That's hilarious!

[teetwoohsix]

Maybe the buyer could melt them all into one big ball of plastic, flips and all, and use it as a paper weight :D

On a serious note though- this would be a scam artist's dream. Bad idea.

Sincerely, Clayton

[johnmh71]

After giving some thought to what was posted last night, I withdrew my bid for the following reasons:

1. I am trying to build a solid reputation on both ebay and this site. Having my name associated as a bid on this type of lot does not help that, regardless of my intentions.

2. No one appointed me to be the cop of the hobby.

3. I usually purchase items to add to my collection, not to destroy them.

I did however report the lot to ebay. It is something that could lead to fraudulent activity, which is what got me fired up in the first place. I hope they take action and remove it.

[Gobucsmagic74]

At a time in the not so distant past, wrappers were thought to have little if any value. One might surmise that used wax wrappers could only be used to rewrap cards and then sell them as unopened packs. This would NOT be the fault of the seller. There is nothing wrong with selling your own plastic holders and flips, and indeed one day they might have some collectible value.

I don't think this seller, member or not, is doing anything wrong. I also think he is letting us all know that tpg services don't care or give a shite about the whole security issue. If they did the tpg's would want the used flips and slabs off the market. Obviously they don't.

I realize I am in the minority here, just don't think the guy trying to prove a point, (about the lack of concern of tpg's) and trying to recoup some funds by seeling off the Potentially collectible flips and slabs is wrong.

OK....let's hear it! Dave.


Ladies and gentleman, we have our seller! LOL

[Gobucsmagic74]

I do plan on buying them without going crazy on the price and I'll smash them to bits. I hate liars, frauds, and scammers. There is way too much of that crap in the hobby already.

Please provide pictures as evidence of the carnage. ;)

Edit: Nevermind. I'm reporting it to ebay as well

[ScottFandango]

Please provide pictures as evidence of the carnage. ;)

He changed his mind and thought it unwise...

[Gobucsmagic74]

He changed his mind and thought it unwise...

Thanks, I should have read on

[murcerfan]

What ever happened to sending your flips back to the TPG's with a note to correct the population reports ??. Back in the olden times, that's what we did.

Oh, that's right the "hobby" now is just flippin' cards as fast as the mail can deliver them.

[chipperhank44]

While I agree with the concerns. I believe SGC and PSA should make cases that are more tamper resistant. While I abhor the quality of Becket vintage grading, their cases are tamper resistant.

+1

tamper proof > tamper evident

[Zach Wheat]

Buy the holder, not the card . . .

Lol

[Rob D.]

Oh, that's right the "hobby" now is just flippin' cards as fast as the mail can deliver them.

Well said.

[Wite3]

I am just shocked that Jim actually managed to include a photo...those of us who have done business with Jim in the past know he was notorious for never posting scans or pictures...

Joshua

[Cardboard Junkie]

Ladies and gentleman, we have our seller! LOL

Ladies and gentlemen, we have our azzhole! (laugh out loudest:D)

[thehoodedcoder]

If you guys cared so much, why not just pay the $10 for them and destroy them.

then the next guy will post them.... by buying them you will create a market for them.

kevin

[Fred]

Well, if there's one thing to consider. Anyone that knows Jim knows that he's never let a money making opportunity get by him. This is a bit disappointing...

[ramram]

Well, if there's one thing to consider. Anyone that knows Jim knows that he's never let a money making opportunity get by him. This is a bit disappointing...

Nor will he likely see this thread. I don't think he has ever posted outside of the Buy/Sell section.

Rob M.

[JMANOS]

They could have cared less when I called. I thought they would have wanted them to have an accurate population report?? All I asked for was a free $12 dollar submission. I was treated very poor by the customer service folk at both company's. Maybe you people should question them? Lastly, I have a special needs person sell items for me and his spelling is weak to poor so I am sorry you have to read his description. Many of you know I do this with special needs folk.

You can bash me all u want but YOUR grading services should be smarter then that and take some responsibility. I don't collect cards I sell them, sorry.

[vintagetoppsguy]

They could have cared less when I called. I thought they would have wanted them to have an accurate population report?? All I asked for was a free $12 dollar submission. I was treated very poor by the customer service folk at both company's. Maybe you people should question them? Lastly, I have a special needs person sell items for me and his spelling is weak to poor so I am sorry you have to read his description. Many of you know I do this with special needs folk.

You can bash me all u want but YOUR grading services should be smarter then that and take some responsibility. I don't collect cards I sell them, sorry.

Yeah, I know what you mean. I had a similar experience. I drank a twelve pack of Bud and afterwards called Anheuser Busch to see if they were willing to buy their empty cans back and I was treated rude by customer service. Those damn companies!

[wonkaticket]

Yeah, I know what you mean. I had a similar experience. I drank a twelve pack of Bud and afterwards called Anheuser Busch to see if they were willing to buy their empty cans back and I was treated rude by customer service. Those damn companies!

LOL David. :D

Jim, that makes no sense are you sure you’re not the one with special needs here (kidding)? ;)

Please explain why it would it be a company’s responsibility to give you a cash discount off new services for handing over broken packaging from previous services?

Do you do this with other companies as well like David joked about? Do you go back to Wal-Mart with your empty Oscar Meyer packages at checkout and ask for a few bucks off the total purchase of your new hot dogs for the big picnic? To put it in more regulatory terms do you return your old driver’s license and or passports when you get new ones and ask for a few bucks off? Sorry but I’m having a hard time following your logic.

I do agree with you that TPG’s if they are going to have population reports should make an effort to keep them maintained to the best of their ability. But that doesn’t mean they should pay you for it they don’t have a recycling program I don’t see homeless dudes with shopping carts full of PSA cases trading them in for booze.

As far as you listing them whatever it’s a free market you can list and sell whatever you want. I can see people’s concerns. However I think are bigger concerns to be had than some beat up broken cases on eBay being sold for a few bucks.

I just fail to see how this is being turned back to the TPG’s as their problem, when it’s just a case of single person trying to make an extra buck off worthless garbage…which is basically eBay in a nutshell.

Cheers,

John

[smtjoy]

Funny blame the grading companies, lol. Ok then just throw the labels away, end of story. Then there is no worry that someone will try to reseal the slab with the real labels, which is what's causing everyone to get upset.

[slidekellyslide]

Funny blame the grading companies, lol. Ok then just throw the labels away, end of story. Then there is no worry that someone will try to reseal the slab with the real labels, which is what's causing everyone to get upset.

I don't think he even cares about that...he just wants to make sure the population reports are accurate.

[wonkaticket]

I don't think he even cares about that...he just wants to make sure the population reports are accurate.

He really cares about these pop reports....in fact you can't even put a price on the level of concern Jim has on this issue....oh wait you can it's $12. :D

[jhs5120]

You seriously got pissed because they wouldn't send you $12 for your flips? I send them in a PWE $.50 and done.

Also, I hope you pay the challenged kid you have working for you.

[conor912]

Holy crap! Nine bids so far...

[JollyElm]

They could have cared less (Should be "couldn't" have cared less) when I called. I thought they would have wanted them to have an accurate population report?? (Why the question marks??) All I asked for was a free $12 dollar (Why are you using both a dollar sign and the word "dollar"??) submission. I was treated very poor (poorly) by the customer service folk at both company's (Do you mean "companies"?). Maybe you people should question them? (Why the question mark??) Lastly, I have a special needs person sell (selling) items for me and his spelling is weak to poor (Do you just hate inserting commas?) so I am sorry you have to read his description (descriptions). Many of you know I do this with special needs folk.

You can bash me all u want but YOUR grading services should be smarter then (than) that and take some responsibility. I don't collect cards (How about a period or comma here?) I sell them, (How about a period here?) sorry.

First of all, anyone selling these cases is an obvious scammer. He knows EXACTLY what someone is going to do with them. F##k him!!

But what I find hysterical is how he blames someone else for their spelling, but just ignores the fact that he himself has no grasp on the English language (see notes above). And I only took a quick glance.

[the 'stache]

http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/gif/f4c362944fdb557a33aff6bea71e23e20beb0a6b_t.gif

[ctownboy]

WOW. Just WOW.

I would think if someone was so worried about correct population reports that if they didn't get the answer they wanted (or the proper customer service) then all they would have to do is get a box, put the holders in it, write a short note and then mail the box, addressed to Joe Orlando, to PSA (via First Class mail).

Not much time, effort or money involved and the proper thing will have been done.

David

[wonkaticket]

WOW. Just WOW.

I would think if someone was so worried about correct population reports that if they didn't get the answer they wanted (or the proper customer service) then all they would have to do is get a box, put the holders in it, write a short note and then mail the box, addressed to Joe Orlando, to PSA (via First Class mail).

Not much time, effort or money involved and the proper thing will have been done.

David

David, Jim tried that but neither USPS, Fed Ex or UPS would give him a credit for the old boxes and labels he had towards this new shipment. Seems the whole system is just against him. :)

Cheers,

John

[bcornell]

The seller's name is Jim Manos.

Brian

I am shocked. SHOCKED!

Or, not. Jim does his own thing - I don't think he cares much about the hobby and certainly not at all about insults lobbed his way, as long as he can sell stuff.

Bill

[midwaylandscaping]

Well, I suppose it's the sellers right to try and move these. Morally I'd destroy the slabs, let SGC/PSA know so they can update their serial # info. By allowing this type of listing eBay is planting the seeds for some fraud in the near future. Basically condoning outright, transparent fraud on the site. It's really all it can be called, for whatever buyer gets these is going to be putting cards back in those holders looking for quick $$$.

[JoeyF1981]

If the price isnt too high I think someone on here should buy them and destroy them or turn them in. Whoever the seller is he's obviously a douche

[AddieJoss]

I just hope whoever wins this auction doesn't leave negative feedback on Ebay and then maybe buy more inexpensive items from the same seller and leave more negative feedback on Ebay. Just hoping it doesn't happen.

Cory

[cardsfan73]

8 of the 9 bids are from the same person who has an 88% bid activity with the seller...

[murcerfan]

All I asked for was a free $12 dollar submission


Go away from here.

[baez578]

They could have cared less when I called. I thought they would have wanted them to have an accurate population report?? All I asked for was a free $12 dollar submission. I was treated very poor by the customer service folk at both company's. Maybe you people should question them? Lastly, I have a special needs person sell items for me and his spelling is weak to poor so I am sorry you have to read his description. Many of you know I do this with special needs folk.

You can bash me all u want but YOUR grading services should be smarter then that and take some responsibility. I don't collect cards I sell them, sorry.

That's about the worst excuse to justify the sale of items that facilitate illegal activity on eBay.

If you want, I'll give you the $12. ship them to me and I'll report sn's to psa sgc. Then, I'll burn slabs and post vid on forum for all to see.

Btw , you say you sell cards....these aren't cards...they're slabs!

[thehoodedcoder]

First of all, anyone selling these cases is an obvious scammer. He knows EXACTLY what someone is going to do with them. F##k him!!

But what I find hysterical is how he blames someone else for their spelling, but just ignores the fact that he himself has no grasp on the English language (see notes above). And I only took a quick glance.

anyone that uses mispellings as a point in their argument is really fishing for just about anything to help make their case or point in an argument about someone else.

it really has no bearing on the logic in ones actual argument.

i could care less if i mispell something by accident. most of the time it is just a typo and i really know how to spell the word. i have more important shit to do than to correct every little thing i type throughout the course of a day, especially when its outside of work.

i also don't capitalize stuff for the simple fact that i don't really care to. i write code so doing that in mixed case is a waste of time.

kevin

[thehoodedcoder]

I just hope whoever wins this auction doesn't leave negative feedback on Ebay and then maybe buy more inexpensive items from the same seller and leave more negative feedback on Ebay. Just hoping it doesn't happen.

Cory

what? similiar to "they were cracked and broken"?

that can't happen.

kevin

[barrysloate]

Jim- the problem is there isn't a single person on earth who actually collects broken cases. The only use they have is for someone to place a lower grade or altered card in one of them, reseal it, and then try to pass it off to a sucker.

Please do me a favor- destroy the cases, send the labels back to the grading companies at no charge, then P.M. your address and I will mail you a check for $12. It will be my good deed for today.

[Sean1125]

I was the under bidder.... Hope the winner was a board member going to do the right thing...

[barrysloate]

I see this auction has just ended....thus my offer was too little too late. Hope the winner takes a stick of dynamite to them.

[Clutch-Hitter]

While I agree with the concerns. I believe SGC and PSA should make cases that are more tamper resistant. While I abhor the quality of Becket vintage grading, their cases are tamper resistant.

Crooks will find a way to open the cases, but I see what you're saying. We, here, usually see the cracked PSA cases and report our findings here and on Ebay. PSA is easy to spot and because we look at the card first, which has its own indicators, its really hard to miss using both avenues.

Although I don't recall any SGC examples, they must be out there because those cases are very easy to open and should be harder to spot with the black inserts and all. Been a PSA guy for more than a dozen years but still really like the SGC holders and their consistency. First, they need to modify/secure those holders slightly, and second, they also need to make a few other unrelated changes to better business across all eras and increase quantity of both submissions and submitters. These things, specifically six things, are very clear to me and I simply can't understand how they're not doing them; just maintain the things that's keeping them second place, with a tie for second being the case, no pun intended, occasionally, it seems. I really like them though; they're unique.

Beckett has gotten better with the vintage stuff, both with their grading of cards and their knowledge of certain issuers. Criticism: went from overly strict years ago with vintage to possibly a little too lenient, but I may be overstating since all three take other things into account when assigning grades (each company considers certain aspects above others). I don't like their holders at all. If it can't be scanned, there's a problem, and their holders, for the most part, can't be scanned. Even when the plastic doesn't interfere, one still has to increase the contrast a great deal for the card to be seen the way it looks when holding it, and the result is a holder that is too bright to read, or close to it. I have several that will be cracked.

Having said all that negativity, they all have issues that are caused, for the most part and in this context, by the criminal minds. If you take a minute to reflect on who does these things and with which company, we'll find that PSA holders are most often the ones the crook chooses because the uncommon vintage collector knows and recognizes the PSA name first and foremost. We tend to emphasize that PSA is doing something wrong in this regard, but that's not correct, nor is it rational. That's the crook's fault, not PSA's.:) Based on the above, I'd say that PSA has the lead in the holder area and the others could put pressure on if they choose to do so.

[vintagetoppsguy]

We tend to emphasize that PSA is doing something wrong in this regard, but that's not correct, nor is it rational. That's the crook's fault, not PSA's.

I understand what you're saying, but I kind of disagree. PSA knows that their slabs are easy to crack, but have turned a blind eye. It's kind of like this. Let's say you have a Masterlock deadbolt on your front door that's known to the criminals as an easy lock to pick because of its design. If you're home got burglarized and the cops told you after the fact that Masterlock is known by thieves as the easiest lock to pick, wouldn't you think that Masterlock should share some of the responsibility? That may be a far-fetched example, but my point is this. When companies are made aware of design flaws in their products, they have an obligation to fix them. So, yes, in a way PSA is doing something wrong by turning a blind eye.

On a side note, I was speaking to Earl from SGC last month at the TriStar show and this subject came up (PSA cases being easy to crack). He said that during his tenure at SGC (which I think he's been there for about 5 years now), he has only seen 1 SGC case that was cracked open and the card replaced, and went on to say that it was poorly fabricated and easy to spot.

[ramram]

Geez, $18.50. Jim's one of the only guys I know that would sell his reputation for $18.50.

Rob M.

[tiger8mush]

Beckett has gotten better with the vintage stuff, both with their grading of cards and their knowledge of certain issuers. Criticism: went from overly strict years ago with vintage to possibly a little too lenient, but I may be overstating since all three take other things into account when assigning grades (each company considers certain aspects above others). I don't like their holders at all. If it can't be scanned, there's a problem, and their holders, for the most part, can't be scanned. Even when the plastic doesn't interfere, one still has to increase the contrast a great deal for the card to be seen the way it looks when holding it, and the result is a holder that is too bright to read, or close to it. I have several that will be cracked.


I scan BVG cards on the same settings (I have a Canon CanoScan CCD scanner) as I scan PSA/SGC cards and they come out comparable, in my opinion. The card below is now raw, but once resided in a BVG holder:

http://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=98684&stc=1&d=1368184717

I've cracked many holders from the big 3 TPGs. I always save the slips. I throw BVG holders in the recycling bin because I haven't found a way to remove the card without destroying the holder. SGC holders are usually the easiest, and sometimes they pop right open w/little or no frosting. Although in MOST cases there is frosting along the edges from opening the case. I usually save these holders to add stiffness to an envelope when shipping cards raw. PSA holders aren't quiet as easy for me as SGC and I usually end up damaging the side of the case more than an SGC, but still usable for shipping raw cards.

In either the SGC or PSA examples, even if I can remove the card w/o further damaging the holder, I still break open the entire holder before shipping it so it is in 2 pieces. Just habit.

Rob
:)

[Kawika]

i could care less if i mispell something by accident.

You misspelled "misspell".

[Sean1125]

You misspelled "misspell".

But he could 'careles'.

[Leon]

I would have only charged the TPGs $11 for them. I'm not greedy.

[ZenPop]

...kind of like selling uranium to the North Korean government and then claiming you didn't know what it was going to be used for.

[thehoodedcoder]

You misspelled "misspell".


one person got the joke. yay.

kevin

[vintagetoppsguy]

When I click on the original eBay link in the first post, the item is no longer valid.

I see it when I do a completed items search, but when I click the item I get a message that says "Item 251305183289 is no longer available" as if it has been removed.

Does this mean eBay cancelled the listing after it ended? If so, I applaud eBay and thanks to those here that reported it.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Jim - This is definitely a sketch thing to do. You know what you are doing.

[Leon]

Jim - This is definitely a sketch thing to do. You know what you are doing.

Although I know the seller quite well I have never been under an illusion that he cares anything at all about the hobby, except how many pennies he can squeeze out of it. He makes no bones about it either. That being said I don't think selling these holders is good at all. Kind of like that Bubblebathgirl dude selling the empty wrappers AND gum from the 1970s or 1980s products. Not cool.

[oldcardboard]

Although I know the seller quite well I have never been under an illusion that he cares anything at all about the hobby, except how many pennies he can squeeze out of it. He makes no bones about it either. That being said I don't think selling these holders is good at all. Kind of like that Bubblebathgirl dude selling the empty wrappers AND gum from the 1970s or 1980s products. Not cool.

Well said Leon. Both Jim and bubblegumgirl are in it for themselves and nothing else. They dont care about the hobby. Its a fact that the speed of light is faster than the speed of sound and thats why some people appear bright, until you hear them speak.

[slidekellyslide]

Although I know the seller quite well I have never been under an illusion that he cares anything at all about the hobby, except how many pennies he can squeeze out of it. He makes no bones about it either. That being said I don't think selling these holders is good at all. Kind of like that Bubblebathgirl dude selling the empty wrappers AND gum from the 1970s or 1980s products. Not cool.

Selling and collecting the wrappers from card products is not a problem...selling the gum with them is right on par with selling these cracked cases.

[bigwinnerx]

I've long had this person's username in my blocklist, forgot why, now it's all coming back to me.

[Rob D.]

Jim and bubblegumgirl are in it for themselves and nothing else. They dont care about the hobby.

I think you'd be surprised at how many people who claim to "care about the hobby" care most about what the hobby can do for them.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Sean]

i just fail to see how this is being turned back to the tpg’s as their problem, when it’s just a case of single person trying to make an extra buck off worthless garbage…which is basically ebay in a nutshell.

Cheers,

john

Best description of ebay that I've heard.