Fake P.T. Barnum preprint autograph being certifed, and also sold at auction.

[travrosty]

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=22597#more-22597

phony preprint autograph certified as real by psa, and auction houses selling these preprint p.t. barnum autographs as real.

Heritage auction sold one as recently as 2011.

http://historical.ha.com/c/item.zx?saleNo=6057&lotIdNo=44006

Protecting collectors with information=power and not letting the TPA's and others get away with it.

[1880nonsports]

I'm a bit shocked. Cards are one thing - and autographs another. I understand that some things can get by a card grader or doccument examiner for a variety or reasons. I've owned 2 of these cabinets. If one is unable to determine a facsimile signature on a photograph - which might be the easiest medium upon which to opine - even for a novice - there's sumptin very wrong. I have P.T.'s autobiography with a pencil signature. Not sure if it's real. Don't believe anyone could rule it out - determining if it's right another story. A stamped or facsimile signature is quite another thing. In my mind - autograph authentication should be held to a very high standard - someone that would certify a facsimile signature on a photograph obviously doesn't have the requisite skills to perform such a service - if you can't master the simple stuff I certainly can't expect you will be able to give due diligence to an autograph one didn't see signed. I will admit to having Charles Hamilton look at my buffalo bill tobacco leather in the earlyish 1990's. It has what I now know to be a stamped W.F.Cody signature on it. I was a year or two into buying cards and ephemera. I was not then and am not now an authenticator or examiner and the auto was not the focus of the item for me. Mr. Hamilton explained the elements that distinguish a stamped/facsimile signature. It was pretty easy to see and understand why it was what it was. Hard to see how an actual authenticator could certify a facsimile - unless they are not competent, sloppy, or dishonest.

[travrosty]

The LOA these companies issue say that the autograph is compared to exemplars and is authentic after consdering slant, SPEED, PEN PRESSURE.

They aren't really considering pen pressure and speed when they examine these PREPRINTS.

They just say they are because it sounds good. they know nothing about speed and pen pressure, if they did, they wouldn't certify preprinted signatures.

[mighty bombjack]

Wow, Leland's has been brought into the fold once again. Unlike the Marciano letters, which apparently fooled many others, this seems to be one that shouldn't have gotten by them.

[earlywynnfan]

Did anyone else, including Mr. Untouchable Nash, reach out to Just Collect? I did, and they promptly pulled the piece.

Ken

[mighty bombjack]

Did anyone else, including Mr. Untouchable Nash, reach out to Just Collect? I did, and they promptly pulled the piece.

Ken

Nice! Good on you and Just Collect.

[D. Bergin]

I will say, some of the stamps they used back then were remarkably well designed. I still see several antique dealers fooled by the John L. Sullivan stamp.

There was one used by Georges Carpentier in the late 1910's or so, that is brilliant. It might have fooled me if I hadn't had 5 others ones just like it staring at me from the same collection.

[travrosty]

the problem is the company issuing the cert, not the end customer, he was just putting faith in the product he received with the coa even though now hopefully people will now know better and take a closer look at what the authentication company is certifying, and see if they really are the experts they claim to be.

did psa give a refund on this?