How Rare Is This 1909 San Francisco Seals Postcard?

[bcookie]

how rare is this card? i picked this one up to resale, the seller stated it is a 1 of 4 known.. is this true?

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1909-Antique-San-Francisco-Seals-PCL-Baseball-RPPC-Vintage-Postcard-1-Of-4-Known-/00/s/NjYzWDEwMjE=/z/QFUAAMXQS6pRwPDY/$(KGrHqV,!lMFG60jCsGLBRwPDY2Lwg~~60_57.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1909-Antique-San-Francisco-Seals-PCL-Baseball-RPPC-Vintage-Postcard-1-Of-4-Known-/00/s/NjY2WDEwMzk=/z/rG0AAOxy2YtRwPDb/$T2eC16d,!)QE9s3HF5H)BRwPDbD)dg~~60_57.JPG?rt=nc

[Shoeless Moe]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/San-Francisco-Seals-Postcard-/230989861007?nma=true&si=%252FUj7cewbz4FVzXJ3WF3yIyBCyI0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557#ht_368wt_1400


http://www.ebay.com/itm/121129268899?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1172wt_1429

[Leon]

Probably close to as rare as the seller says, though I am not sure. I was watching it and didn't think it was a steal. Be careful about buying something then immediately posting on the front page saying you bought it for resale. Some members will think you are trying to sell it on the front page. (Paul posted as I was....pretty good profit for 3 weeks)


http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-Antique-San-Francisco-Seals-PCL-Baseball-RPPC-Vintage-Postcard-1-Of-4-Known-/121129268899?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item1c33ddf6a3&nma=true&si=6IC5x0fI9Cx7xbLyHmweLWBow2k%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557



.

[bcookie]

Leon,

Thanks fo rthe heads up on the posting soon after a buy.. i know the proper board to sell it on..

the ones that sold on REA and Oldjudge.com sole for $1400 and $1700.. do you think this one has the room to sell that high?

also, do you think an SGC grade would help it sell for more?

[gnaz01]

how rare is this card? i picked this one up to resale, the seller stated it is a 1 of 4 known.. is this true?

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1909-Antique-San-Francisco-Seals-PCL-Baseball-RPPC-Vintage-Postcard-1-Of-4-Known-/00/s/NjYzWDEwMjE=/z/QFUAAMXQS6pRwPDY/$(KGrHqV,!lMFG60jCsGLBRwPDY2Lwg~~60_57.JPG

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/1909-Antique-San-Francisco-Seals-PCL-Baseball-RPPC-Vintage-Postcard-1-Of-4-Known-/00/s/NjY2WDEwMzk=/z/rG0AAOxy2YtRwPDb/$T2eC16d,!)QE9s3HF5H)BRwPDbD)dg~~60_57.JPG?rt=nc

Hi,

Didn't you recently post on here that you needed money because your wife broke her wrist and out of work for 6 weeks?? I know we made a deal a few weeks back and all went well, but this sounds odd :confused::confused:

[bcookie]

Hi,

Didn't you recently post on here that you needed money because your wife broke her wrist and out of work for 6 weeks?? I know we made a deal a few weeks back and all went well, but this sounds odd :confused::confused:

not odd at all.. if i can make a few hundred on this in a week or 2 at the most.. as stated above i bought it to resale.

my wife is currently not working.. i work full time and flip cards on the side for extra income..

[Bicem]

Definitely more than 4 known, quite a few have popped up in the last couple years. Still a tough and cool pc though.

[packs]

There was another one of these on eBay not too long ago that was postally used. Seems to be more than 4 known.

[prewarsports]

There was another on ebay 3 weeks ago (not postally used) that was poorly described and it went for less than 1000. I have seen more than 4 on ebay in the last 5-6 years. My guess would be 10-15 are probably circulating in the hobby and probably a few more in private collections etc. Still rare and desirable, but absolutely more common than 4 in the World.

Rhys

[bcookie]

There was another on ebay 3 weeks ago (not postally used) that was poorly described and it went for less than 1000. I have seen more than 4 on ebay in the last 5-6 years. My guess would be 10-15 are probably circulating in the hobby and probably a few more in private collections etc. Still rare and desirable, but absolutely more common than 4 in the World.

Rhys


would you have it graded by SGC? do you think the extra $40 investment would pay off?

[scooter729]

Just my .02 but if you're planning on doing flipping for extra income while at a time when your wife is home injured, you might want to research some of these items a bit more ahead of time instead of after your purchase.

As for your question with SGC, I would say it's not worth authenticating it in its condition. I don't think there is any question as to its authenticity. Were it in nicer shape, I'd say to go through SGC to get a high number grade on it. But with the staining and creases, it'll have a low technical grade, and the SGC slab won't add much value at that point. Just my opinion.

[Greenmonster]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/San-Francisco-Seals-Postcard-/230989861007?nma=true&si=%252FUj7cewbz4FVzXJ3WF3yIyBCyI0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557#ht_368wt_1400


http://www.ebay.com/itm/121129268899?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1172wt_1429

These two auctions are for the same postcard (note the staining on the back).

I had one up on ebay as a BIN but removed it when I saw these two auctions, before realizing it was the same card, I doubted the authenticity. Both sellers did a lousy job presenting the card, the first auction scanning in B&W and the second using a camera image. In both cases the image appears darker and the detail of the players faces are blacked out, also the focus isn't sharp. Another Net54 member was able to obtain a clean scan of the card and after reviewing that image I was comfortable with the card being genuine.

As for rarity I think Rhys is spot on.

I think I first saw this postcard in Dick Dobbins book and really thought it was spectacular.

[Shoeless Moe]

[QUOTE=Leon;1151481]Probably close to as rare as the seller says, though I am not sure. I was watching it and didn't think it was a steal. Be careful about buying something then immediately posting on the front page saying you bought it for resale. Some members will think you are trying to sell it on the front page. (Paul posted as I was....pretty good profit for 3 weeks)


1st buyer paid $674, then sold for $788, net $114, but after Ebay and Paypal take their chunks, I'd think it's about a $50 profit. So yes nice, but I think they'd of done better sending it to an Auction House. But yes their too will be the fees, but I'd think would have maximized the 1st sellers profits. Seller 2 now has the decision now of whichauction house and I don't think he's going to see profits in 2 weeks like he stated. Gonna have to wait it out 3-4-6 months, for anywhere from breaking even to couple hundred bucks profit.

[Shoeless Moe]

not odd at all.. if i can make a few hundred on this in a week or 2 at the most.. as stated above i bought it to resale.

my wife is currently not working.. i work full time and flip cards on the side for extra income..

Just curious on how you think it will only take a week or 2? Unless you are contacted by someone on here wanting it, it's gonna take more than a few weeks to see a profit, but good luck, u may hit small jackpot down the road!

[bcookie]

Just curious on how you think it will only take a week or 2? Unless you are contacted by someone on here wanting it, it's gonna take more than a few weeks to see a profit, but good luck, u may hit small jackpot down the road!

Of course i would not mind selling it here.. but i planned on putting it back on ebay with a BIN/OBO. Also, a better title on the auction.

[bcookie]

i was looking at the above 2 auctions.. i do not see the connection. the buyer of the one that ended on 06/05 is not the seller of the one from 06/26 (the feedback number does not match)

[rhettyeakley]

Look at the staining in the back of the card, no two stains are exactly alike (almost like a fingerprint)--thus these are the same card. When I saw it on eBay the second time with that bluish tint back I figured it was a fake intended to deceive, it looks like it was just a really terrible scan so that is good for you, as the real ones should have a black print back- like nearly all other RPPC's.

[Matthew H]

I wouldn't grade anything PCL. Unless it's something that crosses over to other collectors, like a HOFer. Even then, I personally wouldn't. It's a waste of money as most PCL guys like stuff raw.

[bcookie]

i checked. the printing on the back of this card is black.. it was just a bad scan

[Jaybird]

I wouldn't grade anything PCL. Unless it's something that crosses over to other collectors, like a HOFer. Even then, I personally wouldn't. It's a waste of money as most PCL guys like stuff raw.

I agree and don't think that most postcard collectors care about grading either unless they are trying to have a HOFers name put on the slab and treat it as a "card".

A number of these have sold in the past year or so and whenever things like this come in groups, the price paid for each successive one tends to be a little lower. My advice would be to hold it for a year or two and then sell it. You'll see a nice uptick and might even sell it for $1100-$1200 at that point. Right now, since we've seen a few, the profit might be small.

[Shoeless Moe]

i was looking at the above 2 auctions.. i do not see the connection. the buyer of the one that ended on 06/05 is not the seller of the one from 06/26 (the feedback number does not match)

It's the same person, notice the "DJ" in both names, he's a flipper too, and does quite well at it.

[dstudeba]

I agree with Jason, there have been a number of these, definitely not only four. If I had thought it would sell for 1400-1700 I would have bid more both times it was auctioned.

[Yankeefan51]

This is a rare post card, indeed. Including post card collectors and PCL collectorsthere are at least six known copies. I purchased my copy (SGC Graded 40) in a private transaction. Two months later a similar (but not graded card) was sold by REA. Since that time, including the card mentioned in this post, I have seen two additional examples.

I would urge the owner to have the post card graded. If grades it 70 or above, it should bring at least $2,500.

By the way, if you have further interest, look at a copy of the PCL memorabilia program which cataloged a wealth of the PCL material the San Francisco airport.

To ensure the best price, I would suggest auctioning the item in REA's Fall 2013 auction. If you do so, REA will have it graded. Very few of the remaining important auction houses truly understand the rarity, value and market for baseball postcards The other knowledgeable sources are Lew Lipset (no longer in baseball auctions) are Doug Allen andRon Oser


Good luck

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

[Leon]

This is a rare post card, indeed. Including post card collectors and PCL collectorsthere are at least six known copies. I purchased my copy (SGC Graded 40) in a private transaction. Two months later a similar (but not graded card) was sold by REA. Since that time, including the card mentioned in this post, I have seen two additional examples.

I would urge the owner to have the post card graded. If grades it 70 or above, it should bring at least $2,500.

By the way, if you have further interest, look at a copy of the PCL memorabilia program which cataloged a wealth of the PCL material the San Francisco airport.

To ensure the best price, I would suggest auctioning the item in REA's Fall 2013 auction. If you do so, REA will have it graded. Very few of the remaining important auction houses truly understand the rarity, value and market for baseball postcards The other knowledgeable sources are Lew Lipset (no longer in baseball auctions) are Doug Allen andRon Oser


Good luck

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

Thanks for letting us know who the other knowledgeable sources are. I was worried there for a minute. For some reason this video reminded me of you Bruce....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmWz_F_dPoc




,

[gnaz01]

Thanks for letting us know who the other knowledgeable sources are. I was worried there for a minute. For some reason this video reminded me of you Bruce....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmWz_F_dPoc




,

The gloves are off :D

[Shoeless Moe]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-Antique-San-Francisco-Seals-PCL-Baseball-RPPC-Vintage-Postcard-1-Of-4-Known-/121135558051?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item1c343deda3


that's a little weenie to say the least

[Shoeless Moe]

To ensure the best price, I would suggest auctioning the item in REA's Fall 2013 auction. If you do so, REA will have it graded. Very few of the remaining important auction houses truly understand the rarity, value and market for baseball postcards The other knowledgeable sources are Lew Lipset (no longer in baseball auctions) are Doug Allen andRon Oser


Good luck

Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com

Lew is no longer in auctions???? Didn't he just have one.

[rhettyeakley]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-Antique-San-Francisco-Seals-PCL-Baseball-RPPC-Vintage-Postcard-1-Of-4-Known-/121135558051?pt=Vintage_Sports_Memorabilia&hash=item1c343deda3


that's a little weenie to say the least

Seriously, after all this you didn't pay for the item? What is up with that?

[rhettyeakley]

i checked. the printing on the back of this card is black.. it was just a bad scan

If you never paid for the item and didn't have it in hand, how did you check this little detail?

[scooter729]

So, did he decide he couldn't flip it for as much as he first thought, so he didn't pay??

Now that Zone has gone away, did we need someone else to stir up some drama here??

[Yankeefan51]

Leon

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, and your personal hostility for me, I am not surprised or amused by your comment

I am too busy with other more important issues than to attempt out wit you. I would rather spend my time with more significant concepts. So keep firing away. However, don't hold the firecracker too long. The grading companies do not make a slab in your size.

The definition of insanity is: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Happy 4th of July to all

God Bless America

God Bless Ultra Rare
High Grade Baseball Cards


Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest Want List

[gnaz01]

So, did he decide he couldn't flip it for as much as he first thought, so he didn't pay??

Now that Zone has gone away, did we need someone else to stir up some drama here??

Not cool bcookie!!!!!!!!! :eek:

[caramelcard]

There's a lot wrong with this. I made an offer on it where he could make some cash and he accepted. Was going to wait to pay him until he received the item, but I guess not? No big deal here, but kind of strange to say the least.

He bought it on June 26th which is only a few days ago and mentioned to me that he paid for it already.

Rob

[Jlighter]

Lew is no longer in auctions???? Didn't he just have one.

It was his last.:(

[bcookie]

well, since Rob is the only one that emailed me and it looks like others are going to come to their own conclusions, i will set the record straight.

i won the card on 06/26, Rob offered to buy it from me. i told the eBay seller i would pay TODAY. i did not check eBay or these boards all weekend.

i checked my email this morning and had the PM from Rob asking what is going on... that is when i realized the seller had not only relisted the card but also filed a NPB on me

I have already emailed the seller through eBay as to why he did this after he agree to wait until today for PAYMENT. i am still waitnig to hear from him.

[Bicem]

Rob should just buy it directly from the seller at this point, cut out the middle man.

[prewarsports]

Gotta love how the seller now claims its one of 4 known to exist, so he obviously reads this board yet forgets to mention the fact that several people with knowledge of this card have alrady definitively stated that it is MUCH more common than that.

[Jaybird]

Rob should just buy it directly from the seller at this point, cut out the middle man.

+1. Good luck, Rob. It's a cool card just not 1 of 4. And the copies at auction were cleaner than this one accounting for the price difference. I don't see how any copy of this card would sell for $2500 as stated earlier, but I've been wrong before.

[Shoeless Moe]

well, since Rob is the only one that emailed me and it looks like others are going to come to their own conclusions, i will set the record straight.

i won the card on 06/26, Rob offered to buy it from me. i told the eBay seller i would pay TODAY. i did not check eBay or these boards all weekend.

i checked my email this morning and had the PM from Rob asking what is going on... that is when i realized the seller had not only relisted the card but also filed a NPB on me

I have already emailed the seller through eBay as to why he did this after he agree to wait until today for PAYMENT. i am still waitnig to hear from him.

But you won the auction 8 days ago, why are you just "paying" now? When you buy something on Ebay you are supposed to pay right away or the next day. Or you should have contacted the seller immediately and explained it will take longer, does not sound like that happened.

If win something pay for it right away or contact the seller right away. Deadbeat bidder in my eyes, can't blame the seller for re-listing. And why didn't pay today? The invoice is still out there, pay it, then he'll cancel the sale.

[Shoeless Moe]

+1. Good luck, Rob. It's a cool card just not 1 of 4. And the copies at auction were cleaner than this one accounting for the price difference. I don't see how any copy of this card would sell for $2500 as stated earlier, but I've been wrong before.

No chance for $2500 that guy who said that is a bit of an idiot, and way off on that weak guesstimate of his.

[bcookie]

But you won the auction 8 days ago, why are you just "paying" now? When you buy something on Ebay you are supposed to pay right away or the next day. Or you should have contacted the seller immediately and explained it will take longer, does not sound like that happened.

If win something pay for it right away or contact the seller right away. Deadbeat bidder in my eyes, can't blame the seller for re-listing. And why didn't pay today? The invoice is still out there, pay it, then he'll cancel the sale.


It has been 6 days. i told the seller the day after i won that i would bay TODAy and that was fine by him.. i am not going to pay until i hear from him regarding the relisting..


why am i explaining this to you? :confused:

[Shoeless Moe]

It has been 6 days. i told the seller the day after i won that i would bay TODAy and that was fine by him.. i am not going to pay until i hear from him regarding the relisting..


why am i explaining this to you? :confused:

"Because I am your father Luke"

[iwantitiwinit]

Personally, I wouldn't be buying any cards (especially those where I was so unsure as to whether it would be more profitable to slab or not) with the intention of possibly flipping if money were at all an issue. But thats just me.

[gnaz01]

Any update on this??? Auction is still live :confused:

[Leon]

Hopefully we will know soon. It is a small collecting world.....

[Shoeless Moe]

paid 675 sold for 676, normally a wash but not after ebay and paypal take their fees (and free shipping), a rare loss for this seller, anyone here win it?

Will the winner pay this time?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121135558051?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649#ht_1208wt_1429

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks for letting us know who the other knowledgeable sources are. I was worried there for a minute. For some reason this video reminded me of you Bruce....


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmWz_F_dPoc




,

O/T, but Leon that video had me cracking up :D It looked like a flying condom.

Here's a good one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhETObVI10w

Sincerely, Clayton

[3-2-count]

O/T, but Leon that video had me cracking up :D It looked like a flying condom.

Here's a good one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhETObVI10w

Sincerely, Clayton

Hi Clayton. That would be one large dude who fits that condom let me tell ya!
Hope all is well my friend.

[teetwoohsix]

Tony!! How's it going? Hope all is well with you :)

Yeah, not on this planet :D

Stay cool, this heat has been miserable here in Vegas, and I'm sure it's a bit worse in your neck of the woods :eek:

Sincerely, Clayton