the 'stache
06-12-2013, 05:20 AM
Hey guys, I know this topic is not specific to pre-war cards alone, but I think the discussion will garner the most feedback if it is presented here. So I hope you will indulge me.
I've been giving a lot of thought to some of the issues facing graded baseball cards. Since I returned to the hobby about three years ago, I've seen multiple discussions regarding the methods crooks employ trying to steal from honest enthusiasts. It's not just a matter of printing fake cards and selling them. Now there's the added wrinkle of faked cards being put into plastic, and sold as legitimate memorabilia. Now, you guys are very knowledgeable. You immediately know what to look for when making a purchase. If a card doesn't seem right, bells and whistles will go off in your heads. If a slab or flip looks off, you'll see it. But there are too many people out there that can be fooled. Parents buying cards for their children, people returning to the hobby after a long break, or new collectors will look at these listings on Ebay, and get duped.
When I first started buying cards again, seeing my first PSA graded card on Ebay amounted to an epiphany of sorts. I'd looked up on baseball reference to see what Hank Aaron's rookie year was. After finding that, I went to Ebay to see what a 1954 Topps Aaron was going for. Lo and behold, I saw that baseball cards were now being encapsulated the same way that coins were. After reading about PSA, I'd assumed that the cases would be secure, thereby assuring a buyer that the card inside was legitimate. I started putting some money aside to buy the card I wanted in a nice medium grade. I joined my first forum dedicated to sports card collecting (sportscardforum.com). A little later, when I decided I wanted to start getting into vintage cards, as well, I joined here.
I don't need to rehash the methods these unscrupulous people use to steal from us-cracking slabs and inserting fake cards, or real cards of lower quality. Fake flips, and now it appears faked slabs, are always in the back of my mind. And one thing that remains a constant source of frustration to me is the number of changes PSA's flip have gone through. I've seen discussions on the PSA boards showing the different incarnations of their flips. There have been several changes to the typography and layout of the flips. Some of the flips had lines through the zeros, more recent versions have not. The backs, too, have changed. But there's no real documentation establishing when these changes were made, and at which serial number those changes affected. To my knowledge, PSA has never come out saying "card numbers ____ to ____ employed this particular flip". And I would think that this lack of documentation could empower crooks. What's to stop them from printing an older version of the PSA flip to put in their fake slab? You can look up a serial number on PSA's site, but it will not show you a picture of the graded card in the plastic case.
Would it be at all helpful if I started working on a list of the different variations of the flip, and a breakdown of serial numbers for each flip? I'd imagine it would take some time, but once it were completed, it would be a reference going forward that could immediately help to disqualify some faked cards. I'm thinking of doing this as it would help new/returning hobbyists.
So, you tell me guys. Would this be useful, or do crooks always use the same flip "style" as the number they are faking?
Does that make sense? I apologize if I'm not doing a good job explaining what I'm trying to do. A lack of sleep + a lot of pain medications are messing with my head a bit this morning.
I've been giving a lot of thought to some of the issues facing graded baseball cards. Since I returned to the hobby about three years ago, I've seen multiple discussions regarding the methods crooks employ trying to steal from honest enthusiasts. It's not just a matter of printing fake cards and selling them. Now there's the added wrinkle of faked cards being put into plastic, and sold as legitimate memorabilia. Now, you guys are very knowledgeable. You immediately know what to look for when making a purchase. If a card doesn't seem right, bells and whistles will go off in your heads. If a slab or flip looks off, you'll see it. But there are too many people out there that can be fooled. Parents buying cards for their children, people returning to the hobby after a long break, or new collectors will look at these listings on Ebay, and get duped.
When I first started buying cards again, seeing my first PSA graded card on Ebay amounted to an epiphany of sorts. I'd looked up on baseball reference to see what Hank Aaron's rookie year was. After finding that, I went to Ebay to see what a 1954 Topps Aaron was going for. Lo and behold, I saw that baseball cards were now being encapsulated the same way that coins were. After reading about PSA, I'd assumed that the cases would be secure, thereby assuring a buyer that the card inside was legitimate. I started putting some money aside to buy the card I wanted in a nice medium grade. I joined my first forum dedicated to sports card collecting (sportscardforum.com). A little later, when I decided I wanted to start getting into vintage cards, as well, I joined here.
I don't need to rehash the methods these unscrupulous people use to steal from us-cracking slabs and inserting fake cards, or real cards of lower quality. Fake flips, and now it appears faked slabs, are always in the back of my mind. And one thing that remains a constant source of frustration to me is the number of changes PSA's flip have gone through. I've seen discussions on the PSA boards showing the different incarnations of their flips. There have been several changes to the typography and layout of the flips. Some of the flips had lines through the zeros, more recent versions have not. The backs, too, have changed. But there's no real documentation establishing when these changes were made, and at which serial number those changes affected. To my knowledge, PSA has never come out saying "card numbers ____ to ____ employed this particular flip". And I would think that this lack of documentation could empower crooks. What's to stop them from printing an older version of the PSA flip to put in their fake slab? You can look up a serial number on PSA's site, but it will not show you a picture of the graded card in the plastic case.
Would it be at all helpful if I started working on a list of the different variations of the flip, and a breakdown of serial numbers for each flip? I'd imagine it would take some time, but once it were completed, it would be a reference going forward that could immediately help to disqualify some faked cards. I'm thinking of doing this as it would help new/returning hobbyists.
So, you tell me guys. Would this be useful, or do crooks always use the same flip "style" as the number they are faking?
Does that make sense? I apologize if I'm not doing a good job explaining what I'm trying to do. A lack of sleep + a lot of pain medications are messing with my head a bit this morning.