View Full Version : Buy It Now Reality Check
Yankeefan51
06-10-2013, 02:29 PM
Recently I looked at the E Bay Buy It Now for early 20th century cards with a particular focus on high grade E93-E98s Ramly, Cracker Jack and few more unusual type cards. Whilst I was able to identify 14 cards of interest most had a Buy It Now price of between 3 and 4 x the most recent sale from the more distinguished auction houses. What is particularly striking that the five dealers who were offering these cards have listed them for at least 18 months.
Are they hoping for a miracle or a sucker? When I called a dealer to offer
a super rare e94 in PSA 8, he offered me half the price that they were selling a 7 (non HOF) for. Wonder why they waste their time, or better still who their customers are?
No wonder the hobby is so small compared to rare coins and impressionist art.
Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest WantList
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com
atx840
06-10-2013, 02:40 PM
"he offered me half the price"
I think that is how business works.....
auggiedoggy
06-10-2013, 02:40 PM
Recently I looked at the E Bay Buy It Now for early 20th century cards with a particular focus on high grade E93-E98s Ramly, Cracker Jack and few more unusual type cards. Whilst I was able to identify 14 cards of interest most had a Buy It Now price of between 3 and 4 x the most recent sale from the more distinguished auction houses. What is particularly striking that the five dealers who were offering these cards have listed them for at least 18 months.
Are they hoping for a miracle or a sucker? When I called a dealer to offer
a super rare e94 in PSA 8, he offered me half the price that they were selling a 7 (non HOF) for. Wonder why they waste their time, or better still who their customers are?
No wonder the hobby is so small compared to rare coins and impressionist art.
Bruce Dorskind
America's Toughest WantList
bdorskind@dorskindgroup.com
Welcome to my world. I do feel your pain! Some of the stuff I collect is only offered by a handful of sellers. They also have high BIN prices. One recently added "Best Offer" to his auctions. One of these sellers puts his stuff on sale (20% off) now and then and that is when I pounce. I gather that the items you are looking for aren't discounted from time to time? :rolleyes:
Peter_Spaeth
06-10-2013, 02:46 PM
Extremely high BINs and unwillingness to genuinely negotiate are quite common at the more pedestrian levels of the hobby as well. One can only assume that the business model is working for the sellers.
ullmandds
06-10-2013, 02:53 PM
I can't imagine finding high grade E98's is much of a challenge these days?!?!
When I am buying for resale I try to offer about half of what I think I can get. By the time I negotiate and come back to reality, I end up making 10%-20%, which is fine. If I am buying for my collection, I will pay over market.....
Recently I looked at the E Bay Buy It Now for early 20th century cards with a particular focus on high grade E93-E98s Ramly, Cracker Jack and few more unusual type cards. Whilst I was able to identify 14 cards of interest most had a Buy It Now price of between 3 and 4 x the most recent sale from the more distinguished auction houses. What is particularly striking that the five dealers who were offering these cards have listed them for at least 18 months.
Obviously they do not need to sell, if your observations are correct. Are you annoyed you cannot afford to pay their inflated asking prices or upset they have the resources by which they have the ability to do this?
Sounds like you missed some great opportunities bidding on those 14 items when offered by the distinguished auction houses. Gotta step up or step aside. Lots of guys out there with real money to toss into our hobby.
auggiedoggy
06-10-2013, 04:30 PM
I can't imagine finding high grade E98's is much of a challenge these days?!?!
The Black Swamp Find raised the bar quite a bit as far as high-end E98s are concerned. I pity the collector that is trying to actually build a high-end set. There have been two BSF commons (graded PSA 8) on eBay for a year or so now with no takers. The buyer is asking around $2K (to start) per card. If your name is Donald Trump however ... :D
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1910-E98-Set-of-30-Fred-Tenney-Green-Card-PSA-8-NM-MT-Black-Swamp-/140993786642?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item20d3e27312
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/PSA-9-MINT-OC-1910-E98-Set-of-30-Bill-Dahlen-Black-Swamp-Find-/271219543105?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item3f25f1cc41
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/1910-E98-Set-of-30-Harry-Davis-Red-Card-PSA-8-NM-MT-Black-Swamp-/171055839554?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item27d3b8f942
bbcard1
06-10-2013, 04:32 PM
Heaven knows I'm getting closer to retirement all the time, but one problem is a great number of the dealers are hobbiest who are retired and don't really need the money, then need to keep busy. A fair number are crotchety to boot.
johnmh71
06-10-2013, 04:32 PM
I am never shy about making a fair offer for a buy it now item. It doesn't cost me anything to have them say no. I often have my offer accepted or I receive a counter proposal.
Bridwell
06-10-2013, 04:46 PM
Yes, they are like ebay Museums. Rarely do any of the cards sell, it seems. Why would anybody pay 3x on ebay instead of using the auction houses to buy?
They must occasionally sell a card or two otherwise why bother?
SetBuilder
06-10-2013, 05:34 PM
What do you guys think this is, Wal-Mart?
You can't catch a big fish if you're not fishin'.
http://www.the-tshirts.com/wp-content/uploads/images/340/Catch-Fish-Or-Die-Trying-TShirts.jpg
You know what they say about fools with money.
SetBuilder
06-10-2013, 05:48 PM
Oh, and I have a theory that hasn't been discussed. Search sorting. People will usually sort by highest price first to weed out the junk. When looking through art sometimes on eBay I've seen artists asking $2,000,000 for a painting but they'll accept $200 for it. It's a free way to get your stuff featured at the top and leapfrog over the "legit" names.
So if you type in E98 and sort by price, your cards will be "showcased" at the top in page 1 instead of buried in page 6. Plus, eBay usually charges like $2 for featured listings so its a way to bypass that by putting a high buy-it-now OBO listing.
deucetwins
06-10-2013, 06:30 PM
Search sorting. Good theory and probably some truth in it.
Exhibitman
06-10-2013, 06:33 PM
The beauty of the system is that if you don't like the price, don't pay the price. You can always go find another one elsewhere. Same is true of the offer price on wholesale: if you don't like their price, go elsewhere, consign the card to an AH or sell it yourself.
ETA: some sellers really do not need to sell, which I completely understand w/r/t a weekend warrior-collector type, but which makes no sense to me w/r/t a professional seller who could have turned over his money multiple times. There is one seller at the National every year who has a nice piece I'd like to own at a percentage of the ask but he never negotiates. He offers it on Ebay over and over with no takers, too. I visit the card every year, spend a few minutes saying hello, make my offer, get rejected, and then bid it farewell until the next year.
I've wondered about this for awhile. I never see any sold listings from these inflated BIN prices, but the sellers who do it must be making money on it somehow right? It just doesn't make any sense. I have a bunch of cards that I would sell if someone wanted to pay 3x market value for them. But I also value my time, and would expect that scanning and listing them on ebay for an exhorbitant amount of money would be a waste my time. So who is doing this, and what benefit are they receiving from doing it?
Zach Wheat
06-10-2013, 08:19 PM
I've wondered about this as well. I think it happens as much for the advertising aspects with no intention to really sell the items.
Z Wheat
goudeygold
06-10-2013, 08:42 PM
I can see doubling your money on lower value items, but with card target and other price tracking software I just don't get it...
There is a E105 SGC 50 Lajoie for $2200ish that has been on ebay for atleast 9 years. 9 YEARS.
This one has dropped approx $1000 in price over that time, but obviously is still overpriced.
RedlegsFan
06-10-2013, 08:46 PM
They dont want to "show and sell," they want to "show and tell." Or, they may be trying to influence the market. I almost always use auctions to buy.
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T206Collector
06-10-2013, 08:54 PM
It's called "anchoring." I found that it can work well with patience. List a$1,000 card at $3,000+ and you'll actually see people negotiate with you in the $2,000s, which is still double what you'd see in a straight auction.
I'd say your problem is with the occasional high price buyer. Not the seller, who can obviously get paid once in awhile.
RedlegsFan
06-10-2013, 10:33 PM
That's interesting. Thanks for the info. I guess if it helps keep the value of what I already have, great! Just sucks if you're buying, or trying to outbid the bank.
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HOF Yankees
06-11-2013, 12:40 AM
In my opinion I will use buy it now if the price I feel is right and best offer when I got a price in mind. If I don't win the item there are others so its not always a loss in the end when the item/items may or may not be all that rare.
tschock
06-11-2013, 07:51 AM
There is one seller at the National every year who has a nice piece I'd like to own at a percentage of the ask but he never negotiates. He offers it on Ebay over and over with no takers, too. I visit the card every year, spend a few minutes saying hello, make my offer, get rejected, and then bid it farewell until the next year.
Adam, Just curious, does the seller's ebay ID start with a "d"?
Exhibitman
06-11-2013, 10:41 AM
No Taylor, "C".
caramelcard
06-11-2013, 10:53 AM
It works, but only on the T206 collectors. (no smiley face)
Rob
jwilson6204
06-11-2013, 11:21 AM
I can see doubling your money on lower value items, but with card target and other price tracking software I just don't get it...
There is a E105 SGC 50 Lajoie for $2200ish that has been on ebay for atleast 9 years. 9 YEARS.
This one has dropped approx $1000 in price over that time, but obviously is still overpriced.
I wonder if 9 years is a record on Ebay? Not just for cards, but for any item.