Jews

[Shoeless Moe]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rare-Collection-Greatest-Jewish-Baseball-Stars-Great-Bar-Mitzvah-or-Temple-Gift-/271219946493?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f25f7f3fd

[Gradedcardman]

Not sure if the title is offending me or not ?? But it got my attention.

[Leon]

Not sure if the title is offending me or not ?? But it got my attention.

Me too. Then I thought about the one I started..... :( .....hopefully harmless enough....though a few more words in the title might make it less alarming. :confused:

[slidekellyslide]

Me too. Then I thought about the one I started..... :( .....hopefully harmless enough....though a few more words in the title might make it less alarming. :confused:

If you're referring to your "Those Lutherans" post, I was not offended. :D

[Cardboard Junkie]

It actually depends if it is used as a noun or an adjective or a verb.:)David ps I think it passes the "smell test" in this instance.

[Leon]

It actually depends if it is used as a noun or an adjective or a verb.:)David

Good point....

(*and yes, it was the Lutheran Church Ott blotter thread)

[Gradedcardman]

I agree it needs more words...the smell test....I am not in agreement...I'll leave it there as I am outnumbered. Leon, it's your forum and you do as you like.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Whoa! If you're looking for political correctness, I am not the man for the job.:)Dave.

[howard38]

O

[perezfan]

The only thing I found offensive was the price the seller is charging (simply for grouping these cards together?)

The rather cryptic title got me to open the thread :rolleyes:

Mark Steinberg

[ullmandds]

I'm not sure what a "temple gift" is...but I DID NOT find this offensive!

[Zone91]

I would make a change in your title!!!:eek: Any title like that can't be good!!!

Post # 6

[ullmandds]

not very rare either!!!!

[Jlighter]

He's also selling high performance Basketball Sneakers. I'm sure the same clientele he is looking for with the cards are the same ones for the shoes.:rolleyes:

Disclaimer: this is a joke.

[Peter_Spaeth]

What's offensive about the title?

[Zone91]

Peter_Spaeth

I just don't think it is a good title...same if I had a title called BLACKS....simply not a good title in my opinion!! I don't want to make a fight about it to me it is just a bad title. I find it offensive and I am not even Jewish!!

Post # 8

[oldjudge]

Ryan Braun is not Jewish--Steroids are not Kosher. Actually, he is not Jewish. His father was Jewish but his mother Catholic. According to Jewish law the religeon of the mother is the determining factor.

[Orioles1954]

Of the major religious systems, I am only aware of niche collectors for the following faiths: 1.) Judaism and 2.) The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints aka LDS aka Mormons. I have seen both in ebay titles to help promote sales of vintage baseball cards.

[btcarfagno]

I was expecting a Mel Brooks movie thread. Who knew?

Tom C

[Peter_Spaeth]

Peter_Spaeth

I just don't think it is a good title...same if I had a title called BLACKS....simply not a good title in my opinion!! I don't want to make a fight about it to me it is just a bad title. I find it offensive and I am not even Jewish!!

Post # 8

I am and it doesn't bother me one bit.

[Zone91]

Peter_Spaeth

I guess to each his own!!!

Post # 9

[oldjudge]

Adrian--Lawyers just have thick skins

[Sean]

I'm not Jewish and would not presume to tell those who are whether or not to be offended. But the seller is really overcharging for those cards. He didn't even include a Moe Berg.

[Zone91]

I guess I studied sociology at University and I use to work in human resources so I am more sensitive to such issues (or had to be that is).

Post # 10

[Jewish-collector]

Not offensive at all. I've used similar ebay titles in my listings to help sales, not sure that it helps any, though. :D

I agree with Jay. Ryan Braun is not Jewish. He was raised Catholic as is his mother's religion. Many of the so called current Jewish players are not raised Jewish. Those players have a very small Jewish heritage that they then mention when the media asks them. But they do not consider themselves Jewish.

The seller is way too high for this lot. Definitely not worth what he is selling it for.

[travrosty]

Nothing wrong with the title. They are jewish, right?

[Leon]

Did someone say Moe Berg? (R316 Premium)

http://luckeycards.com/pr316berg.jpg

[slidekellyslide]

I was lucky enough to snag this today...twice signed by perhaps the greatest Jewish ballplayer of them all.

[SetBuilder]

Peter_Spaeth

I just don't think it is a good title...same if I had a title called BLACKS....simply not a good title in my opinion!! I don't want to make a fight about it to me it is just a bad title. I find it offensive and I am not even Jewish!!

Post # 8

Jews is simply the plural form of Jewish. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jew

To describe someone as black, white, or Hispanic is standard usage (law enforcement, news media, demographic data, etc.) and not offensive unless mixed in with other slurs.

But I did find this in the Wikipedia page:

According to The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition (2000):

It is widely recognized that the attributive use of the noun Jew, in phrases such as Jew lawyer or Jew ethics, is both vulgar and highly offensive. In such contexts Jewish is the only acceptable possibility. Some people, however, have become so wary of this construction that they have extended the stigma to any use of Jew as a noun, a practice that carries risks of its own. In a sentence such as There are now several Jews on the council, which is unobjectionable, the substitution of a circumlocution like Jewish people or persons of Jewish background may in itself cause offense for seeming to imply that Jew has a negative connotation when used as a noun.[22]

So if you were to say, "Jew card collector", it may be offensive to some.

[Gradedcardman]

You guys can spin it anyway you want. Definitions, explanations, points of view and so on. In my opinion it's in bad taste. It was not meant that that way but it surely could of been edited to read different and then this thread would be over. Pretty simple. "Jewish player collectors". I would never start a thread as Blacks or Christians. Maybe it's because of things I've dealt with while growing to my ripe old age. Doesn't really matter because everyone has their trials and tribulations. I guess Leon sees a reason to let this go on. Continue on...

[SetBuilder]

You guys can spin it anyway you want. Definitions, explanations, points of view and so on. In my opinion it's in bad taste. It was not meant that that way but it surely could of been edited to read different and then this thread would be over. Pretty simple. "Jewish player collectors". I would never start a thread as Blacks or Christians. Maybe it's because of things I've dealt with while growing to my ripe old age. Doesn't really matter because everyone has their trials and tribulations. I guess Leon sees a reason to let this go on. Continue on...

What about Negro league cards? That's seems to be a very offensive word. If I called a black man a negro in today's society I may be clocked in the temple. But we use it here all the time.

[CW]

Maybe it's just me, but are most here talking about the title of the eBay auction, but Adrian seems to be referring to the title of this thread? I'm confused, and not offended. :)

[pclpads]

[QUOTE=Leon;1144138]Did someone say Moe Berg? (R316 Premium)

The best comment re: Moe Berg was that he could speak seven languages
but couldn't hit in any of them. :D

[Wite3]

First, the price is outrageous...

Second, the title of thread is completely fine in my opinion. Being Jewish myself, having seen hate crimes first hand, and running the diversity program from my little school district, a title to a thread just stating "Jews" is completely fine with me as long as the content is appropriate. If the title was Jews and the content was how to bbq them...then I would be upset. But it was not, it was just the word with an ebay auction that used the word in the same way. To promote something.

Just my thoughts...

Joshua

PS...I too have seen mormon, Jew, lutheran, and even born-again in ebay titles to hit specific searches.

[frankbmd]

but there is still some room on this one. Any bros from Vilnius on the Board may be interested in this listing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKING-SIGNS-LITHUANIANS-ONLY-/230369682739?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a31a6533

Remember Eddie.

[autograf]

Not Jewish but thought the title was a little inflammatory. As for 'Negro League', we're talking about the LEAGUE, not a specific person as such. Not an apples to apples comparison. And the cards in the offending auction are overpriced by about 800%

[howard38]

/

[Exhibitman]

Negro League is a proper term, not a pejorative phrase. It has no secondary meaning. The museum is called the "Negro Leagues Baseball Museum" and the players association is called the "Negro League Baseball Players Association"; nothing pejorative there. In contrast, the term "Jew" without more, as pointed out above, has been used a pejorative manner: "Jew lawyer" "Jew someone down" in a negotiation, etc. The polite term is "Jewish"; I do not know of any Jewish organization that uses the phrase "Jew" rather than "Jewish" in its name. IMO the OP was trying to grab some attention by using it.

[jujudrum]

Like many Board Members, I'm not sure whether to be offended by the title of this thread, but it most definitely got my attention.

However, the one thing that most (if not all) of us do agree on, is that the price of this item is outrageous

[Jerry G]

Hank Greenberg, acquired through the mail as a teenager.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I do not know of any Jewish organization that uses the phrase "Jew" rather than "Jewish" in its name. IMO the OP was trying to grab some attention by using it.

Jews for Jesus?

[cammb]

JEWS IN BASEBALL would have been the appropriate title.

[dabigyankeeman]

I am both a Jew and I have a collection of cards of Jewish athletes in all sports (baseball has by far the most in my collection).

I will say the title of this thread did NOT offend me, but it sure got my interest up and i immediately looked at this thread.

As to players like Braun being not Jewish, let me tell you something about us collectors of Jewish players. We need all the players we can get!! When someone is half Jewish, no matter which half, we consider that player to be a Jew so we can put him in our collection!! Also, you hear different things from players. I have heard an interview with Braun where he said he had no problem with the Jewish community embracing him, and I heard another interview with Braun where he said he was happy to be a role model for Jewish kids (this was before the drug stuff!) and that he is Jewish.

Also, if there is not a definitive answer as to whether a player is Jewish or not, again, we will almost always take him as a Jew so we can put a card of him in our collection. I am laughing as i type this, but its true of me and a lot of Jewish collectors.

As to the item being shown, boy is that over-priced, and leaves out a ton of older really neat Jewish cards.

I have right now over 180 different Jewish atheletes in my collection, and while i try on most of them only to have one card per player, on major guys like Greenberg, Koufax, Berg, etc i do have multiples and i probably have a total of about 200 cards overall in the collection. Not a big collection, but its a fun collection and i enjoy it a lot.

By the way, as a take-off on the Jews For Jesus people, I had a great tee-shirt made up that says Jews For Jeter.

[BigJJ]

Let's all get to the crux of this.

I take no offense.

I am Jewish.

Those who sought, and seek (see a British MP just the other day referring to a "bloody Jew") to speak poorly about Jews, have implied a negativity when using the words "Jews" or "Jew".

I do not know if it is that "Jewish" sounds nicer, and so they do not use this word. or that "Jew" and "Jews" are succinct.

But the negative way in which "Jews" and "Jew" have been used in speech by idiots, usually in an attempt to steal our money or block us from attractive women, :) (more 100 years ago) has made many associate bad connotation with the words.

This is ridiculous. in actuality, there should be no bad connotation.
"Christians" has no bad connotation. "Hindus" has no bad connotation. "Jews" should have no bad connotation. What the hell did we ever do to anybody? all we do is contribute mind, body, and soul.

Let's keep using the terms "Jew" and "Jews", that's who we are, unless we all want to consider ourselves "Hebrews", a little biblical for 2013, or "Israeli-Americans". but that's a whole other discussion.

Best

[BigJJ]

Washington referred to us as the "Stock of Abraham".

Has a nice ring to it.

The greatest of them all -

[Cardboard Junkie]

but there is still some room on this one. Any bros from Vilnius on the Board may be interested in this listing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PARKING-SIGNS-LITHUANIANS-ONLY-/230369682739?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35a31a6533

Remember Eddie.

Hey, Frank......I think one of my loupes has a lithuanian battery in it. :D Dave.

[Shoeless Moe]

Hi, I'm the OP, I did not mean any offense in the least. My best friend is Jewish, he actually attended Catholic school with me as a kid. Talk about a conundrum for him, but his parents wanted to send him to the best school around.

Anyhow just wanted people to see the Ebay item and stir the pot a lil' on here, I love good threads. Hello Leon.

[Paul S]

Dave - Mine uses Lithium. Bifocal camera. - Paul

[Exhibitman]

Hebrews is one that was in vogue in the twenties. Some boxing Exhibit cards from the era identify boxers by nationalities and often list "Hebrew-American" as the nationality. Leo Lomski of Washington ended up a Polish-Hebrew-American on his card. No one got a Catholic-American or Protestant-American on the card, though; only Jewish fighters had their religion listed as a nationality.

[Bob Lemke]

If that's a Benny Kauff strip card at top-left . . . he was not Jewish.

Or if he was, he publicly refuted that fact.

[jerseygary]

Like Bob said, Kauff wasn't Jewish, but many people thought he was, including Henry Ford who used him in a collection of his anti-Semitic essays as an example of dishonest sportsman like Arnold Rothstein in the wake of the Black Sox scandal.

[BigJJ]

Adam, interesting. It is a little biblical, but I like Hebrew.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Here's a baseball card I was given recently of talk-radio host Dennis Prager - who is Jewish and discusses his faith openly on his show. I can recall listening to him discuss this very subject of the word "Jew" and he does not at all regard the word itself offensive, but a normal way of describing a person who is Jewish. In fact he goes on national speaking engagements where the theme of the discussion is "Ask a Jew".

As for the card, it's rather clever in that is was intentionally printed to give it a "beater" look.

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t192/SoliDeoGloria_2007/dp-f_zps5c2a2d74.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t192/SoliDeoGloria_2007/dp-r_zps36a70d8f.jpg

[mark evans]

Not offended.

Mark

[deadballfreaK]

Good thread. I didn't quite know how to take the title, because I have almost zero experience with Jewish people or Hebrews or Jews or whatever. They just don't live around here. I have only known one Jewish person in my life and he didn't practice his religion. He was hilarious and a good friend. Anyway, I might be one who would use the term "Jew" but not mean anything by it or intend to offend. And I love cards of Hank Greenberg and Sandy Koufax too!

[Bob Lemke]

As long as we're (sort of) on the subject, I'd like to offer to pass along my recently-read copy of Sol Weinstein's Loxfinger.

As backstory, let me reprint here my Feb. 25 blog about Bond literature . . .

Gardner's 007 is James Bond "lite"
In the mid- late 1960s, I was a big fan of James Bond, both the series of spy novels and the movies starring Sean Connery as 007.

During that era I read all of Ian Fleming's James Bond novels, and have since reread most of them. I saw all of the Connery-as-Bond movies when they were new, and have watched each of them several times since. I can watch each of them every couple of years without being bored.

Goldfinger is my favorite. Try as I might, I can't recreate the way Connery pronounces the name "Pussy."

As much as I enjoy the seven Bond movies in which Connery starred, my interest in other films in which Bond is played by Roger Moore, Pierce Brosnan, George Lazenby, Daniel Craig, etc., ranges from mild to non-existent. I'm sure I watched at least a few of the half-dozen Bond movies with Moore, but have not seen any of the more recent Bond movies. For my money, if it isn't Sean Connery, it isn't James Bond.

What brings this subject to the fore is my recent reading of a 1983 book Icebreaker by John Gardner. As you can seen from the dust jacket of the volume I bought for fifty cents at a rummage sale, the book is billed as, "Ian Fleming's Master Spy James Bond in . . . "

My time would have been better spent rereading one of Fleming's originals. Gardner's vision is strictly James Bond Lite. I see by an internet search that Gardner has written more than a dozen novels starring James Bond (that's more than Fleming did) but I'm not going to be in a hurry to read them.

To be fair, some of his other works in the genre may have come closer to the Ian Fleming books that I enjoyed so well, but at my age I have to be more discerning about how I spend my time. Frankly, if I didn't have a near manic compulsion to finish any book that I start, I'd have given up on Icebreaker after the first hour. I suppose it's a good enough action spy book, but the lead character shouldn't be called James Bond.

Perhaps instead of reading another John Gardner Bond book, I'll try to find a showing of the first James Bond movie, the 1954 production of Casino Royale starring Barry Nelson.

As much as I enjoyed the James Bond books and movies of the 1960s, I never collected the 1965 Philadelphia Gum James Bond bubblegum cards. By then I wasn't buying any sports or non-sports cards. I did, however, find the pictured card from that set in a box of miscellaneous cards I bought in the 1980s. I saved it because it is for me the iconic portrait of 007.

Being as much of a James Bond fan as I was back then, I had to check out the series of parody novels written by Sol Weinstein. The books were a take off of the Fleming books and hero. Such titles as Matzohball and Loxfinger comedically chronicled the adventures of the Mossad spy Israel Bonds, Agent Oy-Oy-7.

I'm sure a lot of the content was over my head at the age of 14-15. I was after all, a Midwestern goy who, to the best of my knowledge, didn't even know any Jews. I'm guessing unless you were Jewish, or very familiar with Jewish stereotypes of that era, you couldn't get the whole worth of these books.

A couple of years ago I poked around on eBay and Amazon to buy copies of the Weinstein books to reread. I was shocked to find that the originals were now highly collectible, and could cost up to $50.

Fortunately, the books have recently been reprinted and can be found at all the usual internet outlets for $10 or less. I've ordered a couple of them and look forward to seeing how they've aged.


Now the offer . . .

I've finished reading Loxfinger, but can't bring myself to take it to Goodwill. Therefore I'm offering -- at no charge -- to send it to the first person who "claims" it here and PMs me his address. I'll pay the postage.

Perhaps when that person is finished, he'll pass it along, as well.