Poor Consignment Experience

[cjedmonton]

I'll speak in general terms so as to avoid "calling out" a respected auction house.

I have consigned a lot of lower end pre-war signatures. No HOFers. However, the lot included 3 tougher names that should realistically sell in the $300+ range on their own.

The auction house would only accept the lot if everything was grouped together. I agreed at the time.

Unfortunately, the auction title doesn't do the lot any favors (no key names mentioned). Moreover, anyone who might be interested in any single autograph aren't likely to place a bid on the entire lot.

The more I review the listing, the more convinced I am that the key names are completely lost in the fray.

I don't see anything in the consignment agreement saying I can't request to pull the item from the auction. There are no bids as we speak. However, the auction house did obtain JSA authentication, for which I am obviously on the hook for.

What would you do?

[Bestdj777]

I would reach out to the seller and communicate your concerns before doing anything else. If the seller does not adequately address your concerns, than pull your listing (assuming it is not prohibited by the consignment agreement) and reimburse him for the JSA expenses.

[RichardSimon]

I'll speak in general terms so as to avoid "calling out" a respected auction house.

I have consigned a lot of lower end pre-war signatures. No HOFers. However, the lot included 3 tougher names that should realistically sell in the $300+ range on their own.

The auction house would only accept the lot if everything was grouped together. I agreed at the time.

Unfortunately, the auction title doesn't do the lot any favors (no key names mentioned). Moreover, anyone who might be interested in any single autograph aren't likely to place a bid on the entire lot.

The more I review the listing, the more convinced I am that the key names are completely lost in the fray.

I don't see anything in the consignment agreement saying I can't request to pull the item from the auction. There are no bids as we speak. However, the auction house did obtain JSA authentication, for which I am obviously on the hook for.

What would you do?


As far as I know auction houses pay TPA's a flat daily fee. You should not have to reimburse the auction house.

[HRBAKER]

You're the customer, pull your lot.

[shelly]

Tell them to shove it and get your stuff back. If not then post the house and see what happens. I bet you get your items back:)

[cjedmonton]

Well, things just got more complicated....someone placed a bid overnight.

[sports-rings]

This should not matter. Things get pulled all the time after a bid is made.

Better than pulling the item, hopefully the auction house will revise their listing to your satisfaction. I find most auction houses do very little research. When I consign an item I will provide them a written description at the time they accept my consignment.

Usually it's a win-win situation, with the auction house getting a better final price when items are described properly.

Good luck!

[cjedmonton]

Thanks for the insight. I will contact them when they open tomorrow.

I'm certain that if I let it run its course as it stands, we will both lose out.

[murphusa]

your contract may say that you will need to pay the fee against a estimate of sale

[cjedmonton]

It doesn't explicitly require a fee against the final sale estimate. However, the listing in its current form is not doing either of us any favors. A real lost opportunity, in my opinion.

[sports-rings]

if they refuse to update the listing or they refuse to let you out of the sale, make sure you tell them that you will be naming them at net54baseball.com and that you will remind the readers at this site that the auction house did a poor job in describing the item in the correct light to maximize sales.

There are quite a few auction houses that have become lazy, doing the bare minimum in describing items and even more lazy in getting the word out of their upcoming auctions.

The auction houses getting the most money for items are pushing the media outlets and getting their auctions in the news, on the internet, on TV and radio and in the newspapers. Some are working hard, others are doing very little.

[sb1]

without regards to your specific consignor agreement, almost any auction company in the world can change, add or amend descriptions, photos, etc with the click of a button.

That being said, why did you not contact them when you first posted and make the call to either amend or pull? Posting here with vague info did not expedite any change in the listing and may have complicated things with the bid being placed, especially if it was a no reserve auction. That may lead to 3 unhappy parties instead of 2.

Lastly, even with the current description, the lot will probably reach it's true value. Very little falls thru the cracks assuming it's a mainstream auction. AND, you can post your own notes and highlites with a link here to reach out to a large group of prospective buyers.

[cjedmonton]

without regards to your specific consignor agreement, almost any auction company in the world can change, add or amend descriptions, photos, etc with the click of a button.

That being said, why did you not contact them when you first posted and make the call to either amend or pull? Posting here with vague info did not expedite any change in the listing and may have complicated things with the bid being placed, especially if it was a no reserve auction. That may lead to 3 unhappy parties instead of 2.

Lastly, even with the current description, the lot will probably reach it's true value. Very little falls thru the cracks assuming it's a mainstream auction. AND, you can post your own notes and highlites with a link here to reach out to a large group of prospective buyers.

All valid points. When the OP was made, I was merely reaching out to fellow hobbyists to help gauge the situation.

Also, I did not want to get into specific details or "spam" a direct link to the auction. That wasn't the intent at all...only a call to other's experiences as a consignor.

I was and am concerned with how the current listing may leave more than a few dollars on the table, that's all.

Now that some time has passed, and I will try to place more faith in the system. Lessons learned. In the end, the difference won't be a life changer.

[sb1]

All well said, I still think you are within reason to put a link in the BST thread of Auction items, can't hurt.

[cjedmonton]

Absolutely horrible.

Tannehill and Hahn alone would easily have brought this figure in a normal setting.

Instead, I cleared $295 for the entire auction.

A tough and expensive lesson, no doubt.

http://www.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-bin/showitem.pl?itemid=57784&catid=270&lotno=516

[RichardSimon]

I send consignments to an auction house.
They send me a proof of the auction listing and invite me to add any corrections or additions as I see fit.
Does not seem like a very hard thing for an auction house to do.

[Sean1125]

Did you actually end up contacting them to change it or did you leave it as it was?

[cjedmonton]

They did include a few enhancements I made to the description, but in the end, the ambiguous title was left as is. That was the nail in the coffin.

Please note that this has much less to do with my being disappointed with the final hammer than it was not even taking the time to properly present the items, or even be willing to individually list the key names.

At any rate, I've washed my hands of the entire ordeal. I'm disgusted, but like anything, life goes on.

A shame, considering how pleased I was with how they handled the estate purchase I consigned with them last year.

[hugginsandscott]

Chris,
I certainly wish it had gone better for both of us. As stated above, we can change anything at any time on the listing. For the record, you never made any indication that you were dissatisfied with the title. We had an email correspondence back and forth prior to us going to print and there was no mention of you wanting the title changed. In fact, here is the email you sent me on May 13th:

Hello,

I see that my consigned lot has been listed. Thank you for a nice write up, but wanted to know if it would be possible to make a few enhancements to the description (space permitting).

1. Jesse Tannehill, Noodles Hahn, Hooks Wiltse, and Dutch Ruether are the highlights to this lot. Would it be possible to underline their names as keys?

2. Clarence Mitchell year of passing was missed (d. 1963).

3. Would it be possible to include the first and last name for each player?

Here are my revisions in a simple copy/paste format. If you could make any or all of these changes, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks again for the great service,

Chris Jenkins


The only thing I didn't accommodate was the request to include the first name of each player in the catalog description and my reasoning was it would result in too much text to allow for a decent sized image; however I did include the first name of each player on the internet and our search feature captures catalog descriptions or internet descriptions, so there was no loss there.
Again, I do wish it had sold for more money, as the more you make, the more we make. I'm sorry you weren't happy with the results - we weren't either.
Josh Wulkan
Huggins and Scott Auctions

[thenavarro]

Josh,

IMO, very poor taste for an auction house to post an email of a consignor on a public message board, irregardless if the consignor expressed issues with a consignment on the same board.

His gripe was not an issue of integrity, or anything that any future consignor should have hesitations over. It was really a simple issue that seems easily avoidable for future consignors and the auction house by communication.

Just my two pesos,

Mike

[RichardSimon]

Josh,

IMO, very poor taste for an auction house to post an email of a consignor on a public message board, irregardless if the consignor expressed issues with a consignment on the same board.

His gripe was not an issue of integrity, or anything that any future consignor should have hesitations over. It was really a simple issue that seems easily avoidable for future consignors and the auction house by communication.

Just my two pesos,

Mike

+1

[cjedmonton]

Ooo, fun! While we're airing private emails on a public forum, I've got one.

The bottom of this post features my response to the invoice for proceeds due.

In response to the consignee's weak defence of "you never asked to amend the title" argument, I should not have had to hold your crew's hand by specifically asking that you draft a meaningful and effective auction.

Granted, these were all lower profile items than most that were listed. Nonetheless, I am a paying customer. I should have, without question, been entitled to a quality listing that would best market the items to interested bidders.

If I had a Mathewson autograph, should I have overtly asked them not to list it as a "pre-war Bucknell scholar turned National League star pitcher"? If it were Cobb...please don't say "ex-Tigers great turned shrewd businessman and early Coca-Cola stockholder."? Give me a break.

I stated earlier in this thread that I have throughly washed my hands of this matter. Nothing's changed, other than a decade+ spent collecting those autographs and more money than I care to admit.

The silver lining is that the ordeal is over and the amount lost is not a life-changer. I just want to move on.

-------------------------

6/14/2013

To Whom it May Concern,

I hereby reject this invoice. Please do not forward these proceeds to me or they will be returned.

As suspected (and discussed with Josh Wulkan), this was a poorly constructed listing which I am certain resulted in several hundred dollars being left on the table. Surely this can be acknowledged.

If not, here is a recent example of what just one of the key signatures in this lot (in the same form) commanded:

https://www.premierauctionsonline.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=36361

For the others, simply refer to Quality Autographs for their retail prices as a starting point. Even by deeply discounting those figures, you will see that several of the key signatures were lost in the fray due to the poor format and ambiguous title.

My personal expectations aside, I am thoroughly disappointed with the lack of attention given to this lot.

I fully understand the nature of an open auction environment, and realize that bidding tendencies can fluctuate wildly in such a setting. However, the auction as it was presented was such a disservice to the rarity and quality of these autographs, I would rather waive the $295 in proceeds than accept that disservice.

I do not wish to discuss this matter any further.

Chris Jenkins

[thenavarro]

Chris,

If they send you the proceeds and you still feel like you can't accept them, I would be happy to request that you send them to the Ellis County Children's Advocacy Center, Inc. They are a 501(c)3 organization that serves my County and I have been their volunteer board Treasurer since 1998. We provide a child friendly environment for children to make outcries of sexual or severe physical abuse, and we interview each child by a forensic interviewer who is trained to capture all the information that the different law enforcement agencies (CPS, the State, City, County, etc) need in order so that the child doesn't have to continue reliving that trauma with each interview otherwise. Additionally, we have a counselor that provides services to the child and non offending family members after their outcry. It would be a good use of those proceeds rather then having an auction house that you are not happy with keep them

If this is an option you would like to choose, feel free to PM me and I'll send you their address and executive director's name.

Thanks,

Mike

[cjedmonton]

Hi Mike,

Sounds like a very worthwhile cause. If they insist on sending the proceeds to me, I will gladly donate it to this cause.

Please PM me with the details.

Thanks,
Chris

[scooter729]

Sorry to see this went down the way it did for you, Chris.

One thing I'm curious about - you said you would end up with a net of $295 from the auction. Since the final bid price (without premium) was $550, how do you get the $295 figure? That would mean their percentage of the final bid is nearly half. Or are you factoring in some other costs on your end? Just curious where the $295 came from.

Thanks....

[cjedmonton]

15% commission plus $172.50 in authentication fees.

A perfect time for me to step back from the hobby for now.

At least I found a home for the proceeds if they send a check against my wishes.

[Griffins]

you were charged a sellers fee AND had to pay the authentication fees?

[sb1]

I have been wondering about the net as well. There are a myriad of auction companies that would have charged you ZERO sellers fee and depending on the grading, which most get a discount on, might have passed on some of that savings to you as well.

[cjedmonton]

Gents, I am trying to recover from this experience as quickly as possible. Your revelation isn't helping matters!

Sigh...a day late and a dollar short, as the saying goes.

Evidently, I was charged a reduced rate for the JSA thumbs up. If I never see the names Hahn, Tannehill, Wiltse, Nehf, Ruether, et al... again, it'll be too soon.

[travrosty]

did you have a choice of having them authenticated or auctioning them off the way they were? did the auction house offer free authentication, if not why not? they were to benefit from the authentication too.

[cjedmonton]

Free authentication was not an option for my lot.

Listing them w/o TPA was also not an option.

[Big Dave]

What a crock.....

[HRBAKER]

Wow

[chaddurbin]

starting to regret putting h&s on the recommended list to a few newbies on the other forum. luckily they went with other places.

[jhs5120]

I just drove down to Silver Spring this weekend to pick up some winnings; Bill Huggins and the gang could not have been nicer. I have consigned items with them in the past and I have never had to pay such a ridiculous authentication fee (I have never consigned autograph lots however). I'm sorry this happened to you and I think more should be done to make this right, it certainly leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

[travrosty]

Free authentication was not an option for my lot.

Listing them w/o TPA was also not an option.



why not, ask them to do it, or take it somewhere else? the authentication fees were ridiculous, you paid and the auction house benefited.

[cjedmonton]

I had a positive experience last year with a larger lot I consigned, and agree that Bill seems like a very nice guy.

Unfortunately, this particular lot went off the rails and I took a bath.

Therefore, I will not consign with them anytime soon. I'm sure that's understandable, given how things played out.

[Leon]

I had a positive experience last year with a larger lot I consigned, and agree that Bill seems like a very nice guy.

Unfortunately, this particular lot went off the rails and I took a bath.

Therefore, I will not consign with them anytime soon. I'm sure that's understandable, given how things played out.

Bill and Josh are 2 of my favorite guys in the hobby (even if they didn't advertise here). Sometimes things don't go perfectly in auctions and it's unfortunate. I would trust them with anything and always enjoy my time chatting and carousing with them. I happily bid in almost all of their auctions too and have won many nice items for my collection and for resale.