View Full Version : REA and other auctions, ridiculous delays
CMIZ5290
05-19-2013, 05:51 PM
Is it just me, or do others feel the same way? You have bids on cards for endless hours, and then you wake up to find you were out bid at 2:00 in the morning! Supposedly, there is a 15 minute window to allow final bids. I am finding this more and more harder to believe, I was high bidder on 2 lots for 10 hours! What miracle transpired to have 2 bidders out bid on these 2 lots when most people were asleep? To me it's just a stupid system that needs to be fixed....
calvindog
05-19-2013, 05:56 PM
LOL. 2 AM? I hadn't even set my alarm until 3 something. :) And yes, it was awful. And it's awful every year -- but that's part of the charm :). I think.
cyseymour
05-19-2013, 05:59 PM
Better to be a sniper than one of the sniped. Came down with a King Kelly a couple years ago doing just that - placed my bid five minutes before the auction closed.
Of course, the "honest auto-bid" is there, so if you had wanted to go one increment higher, you could have... just need to make the call ahead of time.
MVSNYC
05-19-2013, 05:59 PM
Hi Jeff, dinner soon?
Kevin- it's one night out of the year, and an exciting one at that. i know many people, including myself that stayed up late and bid after hours. it's just part of the gig. i completely trust REA (and would have no problem leaving ceiling bids), but i do it so i can be awake to strategize if i'm outbid on one lot, i can make a game-time decision to move my attention (and funds) to other lots.
Best-
M
Gradedcardman
05-19-2013, 06:03 PM
Kevin,
While I agree with you in principal, I followed the end of REA closely. What I found is that around 2am EST, the bids started flying. My immediate reaction was this must be the west coast. This flurry continues for an hour or so. I followed this by refreshing the current bids every couple of minutes. Yes, I was up late and could not sleep. Anyway, I used to feel that these additional boss were crap but after watching last night I feel good about it.
I would though, love to see these auctions end earlier but financially that is not the best way for the auction houses as a rule.
My 2 cents right or wrong.
CMIZ5290
05-19-2013, 06:08 PM
Hi Jeff, dinner soon?
Kevin- it's one night out of the year, and an exciting one at that. i know many people, including myself that stayed up late and bid after hours. it's just part of the gig. i completely trust REA (and would have no problem leaving ceiling bids), but i do it so i can be awake to strategize if i'm outbid on one lot, i can make a game-time decision to move my attention (and funds) to other lots.
Best-
M
Understand, but here's what I dont understand...If you really want to go after a lot, how in the hell do you know when the 15 minutes has expired?? How in the world can you wait for hours? Just doesnt make sense to me. What if by chance the auction ends at 12:00?
HRBAKER
05-19-2013, 06:10 PM
Isn't it great when it's absolutely brutal punishment to spend sh*tloads of money!
:D
thehoodedcoder
05-19-2013, 06:14 PM
Is it just me, or do others feel the same way? You have bids on cards for endless hours, and then you wake up to find you were out bid at 2:00 in the morning! Supposedly, there is a 15 minute window to allow final bids. I am finding this more and more harder to believe, I was high bidder on 2 lots for 10 hours! What miracle transpired to have 2 bidders out bid on these 2 lots when most people were asleep? To me it's just a stupid system that needs to be fixed....
i have fallen asleep at my keyboard before, woken up at 6 am and still been able to bid on a lot because things were not closed.
i guess at 2am eastern is really only 11pm on the west coast. figure those guys are up till 2, tack the three back on and that pretty much sums it up.
kevin
While I agree with you in principal, I followed the end of REA closely. What I found is that around 2am EST, the bids started flying.
Ah-HA! At least now we have an answer for THIS thread! (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=168745)
:)
MVSNYC
05-19-2013, 06:23 PM
Kevin M- i assume you are aware of REA's recent bid page? shows you the 100 recent bids, including a time stamp for each bid, so it's easy to track the velocity of bids. as the auction goes deep into the night, you keep an eye on the recent bids page...granted bids were flying in every 20 seconds or so until almost 5am (from what i see).
calvindog
05-19-2013, 06:38 PM
Plus Rob sent out an email warning at 3:15 AM that the auction could end at any time.
Besides Rob doesn't "do" it, we "do" it. Once bidders figure out the rules they will determine the strategy that best fits there chances of winning at the lowest possible price. I basically placed bids on day 1 and then again at 3:30 AM this morning. REA final bidding day gives me the same feeling I had when I was 7 and Christmas morning was in full swing.
MVSNYC
05-19-2013, 07:02 PM
"REA final bidding day gives me the same feeling I had when I was 7 and Christmas morning was in full swing."
This.
CMIZ5290
05-19-2013, 07:04 PM
"REA final bidding day gives me the same feeling I had when I was 7 and Christmas morning was in full swing."
This.
Wow....I give up....
Peter_Spaeth
05-19-2013, 07:17 PM
REA is easy for me. I figure out the bid level I am comfortable with, add one, bid early, and get outbid by the crazies.
sflayank
05-19-2013, 07:19 PM
okay...stay open til 5am...but why was there no automated outbid notice sent?...by staying open indefinitely...the seller of the item i bid on lost at least $500
bobbvc
05-19-2013, 07:21 PM
Is it just me, or do others feel the same way? You have bids on cards for endless hours, and then you wake up to find you were out bid at 2:00 in the morning! Supposedly, there is a 15 minute window to allow final bids. I am finding this more and more harder to believe, I was high bidder on 2 lots for 10 hours! What miracle transpired to have 2 bidders out bid on these 2 lots when most people were asleep? To me it's just a stupid system that needs to be fixed....
It's in the rules. It's like the height requirement at Disneyland on some rides, sure it's disappointing to some, but if you don't like it, don't enter the park.
HRBAKER
05-19-2013, 07:24 PM
At the end of the day, it's a pain but the results tell you that it's really not an issue.
insidethewrapper
05-19-2013, 07:32 PM
Does any other auction house just end an auction at anytime they wish ? If the rule is 15 minutes then it should be 15 minutes. It just seems a little fishy that someone can make a bid and then the auction house declares the auction done.
calvindog
05-19-2013, 07:37 PM
Does any other auction house just end an auction at anytime they wish ? If the rule is 15 minutes then it should be 15 minutes. It just seems a little fishy that someone can make a bid and then the auction house declares the auction done.
This is a certainly understandable concern. But I don't think Rob would stop the auction if there was a spirited bidding war on a high value card; however, bids going back and forth on a collection of Playboy magazines probably means that the auction had jumped the shark.
cyseymour
05-19-2013, 07:47 PM
This is a certainly understandable concern. But I don't think Rob would stop the auction if there was a spirited bidding war on a high value card; however, bids going back and forth on a collection of Playboy magazines probably means that the auction had jumped the shark.
One thing about that lot, it says it is missing the March 1955 issue of Playboy, but in fact that issue never existed.
http://www.behance.net/gallery/The-March-1955-Playboy-Project/737550
gnaz01
05-19-2013, 07:52 PM
however, bids going back and forth on a collection of Playboy magazines probably means that the auction had jumped the shark.
That's AWESOME, Jeff! :D
FWIW, I put in a bid on an item 3 weeks ago, and won it this morning at $400 less than my Honest Auto Bid! Rob and team run an ethical auction, IMHO.
insidethewrapper
05-19-2013, 08:04 PM
I agree, in my opinion, REA is the best, and I would consign to them in a minute.I just don't like the way the auction ends.
Anthony S.
05-19-2013, 08:09 PM
Just hire a meth addict to bid for you. They don't sleep.
Just hire a meth addict to bid for you. They don't sleep.
I heard one of the board members did this but is now reconsidering the strategy after ending the auction with only a mad stack of playboys.
An LSD addict would bid all your money on 1972 Topps.
Rickyy
05-20-2013, 12:13 AM
One of the few benefits of being an nite owl... stayed abreast of the auction via smartphone last night while sipping from a glass at a bar at nearly closing time... even the bartender and a few fellow barflys were rivited watching to see if I would get anything or not... :o
Ricky Y
I'm a night owl, have been since I was a little kid. My mom called me a vampire when I was little, because she couldn't get me to go to bed.
I believe night versus morning people is a genetic thing.
deadballfreaK
05-20-2013, 02:00 AM
Never trusted morning people. Up early, hearty breakfast and off to whip the world at 9. I can get up at noon, eat three pieces of cold pizza, wash it down with a beer and I'll still be up at 4 am. Lot less competition.
buymycards
05-20-2013, 04:15 AM
Hi Ken,
For a true morning person the day is half over by 9. :)
Rick
Hi Ken,
For a true morning person the day is half over by 9. :)
Rick
I remember the old army commercial: "We do more before 8 AM than most people do all day". And they thought this was a selling point. :eek:
I guess the question is how did we get to this point?
Various other collectibles from trinkets to multi-million dollar items can be bought at auction, (online and in person) at normal hours of the day, Art, Cars, Coins, Stamps, Wine you name it. NONE of them transact at the wee hours of the morning. Ever see Sotheby's close an auction at 4:00 am, how about Barrett-Jackson or Spectrum?
I guess the auction houses and bidders in sports collectibles are equally to blame, one for setting it up this way and the other for participating in it.
There are a few live auctions annually that receive the same quality of items and same bidders and they last 2-3 hours and everyone is done. Seems like an online auction could be ran the same way. Announce it weeks or months in advance, run it on one night 5-6 hours and end it with an exact time. Actually ending each lot with a predetermined time(one AH actually does this now). Everyone has equal opportunity to bid and bid hard, with an end in sight.
I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of items would realize nearly the same results as any other extended format, in some cases stronger prices due to the last minute bid flurries. In fact the one auction that already does the abrupt planned ending results in heavy last minute max bids, just like Ebay style auctions.
The reason we will probably not see this change happen, actually lies with one party of the auction equation, the consignor. They abhor the thought of their item not getting it's full value and believe that it must be milked out to the last possible second. Most auction houses would feel they had zero chance of getting consignments if they tried to change the existing format. The individual lot ending now used by some AH's had alleviated much of the all night wait, but even then the consignor can feel the item ended too soon and no one can go back and bid later.
Until both the consignor and auction houses both try and accept a format such as the one above and it becomes the norm rather than the exception, we are stuck with the status quo.
barrysloate
05-20-2013, 06:33 AM
Agree with Scott. It would be so easy to change the auction format so that they ended at a reasonable time. But nobody wants to change it. Somehow they feel the status quo is best. I always hated the late closings, but some do seem to like it. And I'm a morning person, so staying up all night wasn't something I was able to do.
Jay Wolt
05-20-2013, 06:51 AM
Actually REA did tweak it a bit by starting their extended bidding at 4PM, guess Rob didn't realize that it would still be taking on bids over 12 hours later.
AMBST95
05-20-2013, 07:00 AM
I'd rather they open extended bidding at midnight and then close it the next afternoon rather than the other way around. There are enough people bidding in these auctions and enough lots for the 15 min rule to carry it through the night and then close it down when the whole country is awake.
Actually REA did tweak it a bit by starting their extended bidding at 4PM, guess Rob didn't realize that it would still be taking on bids over 12 hours later.
it's been 4:00 for several years and has no effect on the ending. Inevitably people will believe that is to their advantage to wait and drag the bidding out until the last possible minute if allowed to.
I'd rather they open extended bidding at midnight and then close it the next afternoon rather than the other way around. There are enough people bidding in these auctions and enough lots for the 15 min rule to carry it through the night and then close it down when the whole country is awake.
I would be willing to bet that if this were tried, the auction would end at 2-4 am the next night, rather than in the afternoon.
bobbyw8469
05-20-2013, 07:12 AM
As bad as Hunt Auctions website is to navigate, THEY GET IT! Run each lot on an individual basis. It forces people to bid or get off the pot, rather than allow one coast to stay awake longer than the other coast. You might as well call it "West Coast style auction", because it defintiely favors the west coast.
base_ball
05-20-2013, 07:36 AM
Free shipping makes it all better...
wonkaticket
05-20-2013, 09:26 AM
Gotta give some credit to REA while I’m not a huge fan of the 4am shuffle either.
REA managed to close down an 1800+ lot, $ 10MM+ dollar auction within a few hours of most competitors 100-200 lot auctions. Hell the last SCP went until 6am and had a fraction of what REA had…..
That’s pretty impressive.
oldjudge
05-20-2013, 09:32 AM
I hate the format but love the auction. If someone is put off by the format they always have the option of not bidding. I have chosen to put up with it.
Runscott
05-20-2013, 01:08 PM
Before Saturday-Sunday, I had never stayed up for an auction like this. As Brian can attest, I threatened to call it quits 4-5 hours before I actually gave up. But it was too much fun chatting with friends, and it was really amazing to see the bidder behavior as the auction wound down. As serious bidders got beaten on big lots by snipers, they seemed to be scrambling to find somewhere else to spend their money. In this formerly once-a-year event, everyone was ready with loads of marker bids. It set off a huge chain reaction.
As Jeff mentioned, we got the 'fair warning' email around 3:15, but bidder behavior didn't change much. You would think that all those very late bids for high-dollar items like the BN Ruth and the Gehrig/Ruth signed ball would have been placed a bit earlier, I mean - if you are serious about spending over $200K, why take a chance on REA ending the auction abruptly? I wasn't a player after 3:00, except for someone taking my beat-to-shit 1914 CJ Matty lot, but it was still immensely fun. I have no complaints.
I would say the Sockalexis pin and the Wagner signed balls probably amused me the most, but the guys fighting over the Philadelphia Athletics memorabilia also provided some entertainment.
glchen
05-20-2013, 01:23 PM
...As Jeff mentioned, we got the 'fair warning' email around 3:15, but bidder behavior didn't change much. You would think that all those very late bids for high-dollar items like the BN Ruth and the Gehrig/Ruth signed ball would have been placed a bit earlier, I mean - if you are serious about spending over $200K, why take a chance on REA ending the auction abruptly?
You "snipe" to save money, which is true even for the big boys, or even more so as each additional bid increment + BP is in the 10's of thousands of dollars. So you bid as late as possible, hoping that your rivals have already gone to bed and will not counter. Everyone says leave your max bid, but often times, the max bid is someone's "reasonable" bid, and not truly their max. Also, many bidders are still concerned with shilling, so don't like leaving max bids. As to why risk REA ending early, I think the psychology is, these are such huge dollar items. Every additional bid increment is tons of money for the consignor and BP to the auction house. The auction house will not end the auction without at least giving the other party 10 minutes or so to counter before ending the auction.
esquiresports
05-20-2013, 02:05 PM
Does any other auction house just end an auction at anytime they wish ? If the rule is 15 minutes then it should be 15 minutes. It just seems a little fishy that someone can make a bid and then the auction house declares the auction done.
I don't think the OP's question or the above were answered, so I will give it a go.
Closing for the REA auction is based on a 15-minute rule applied to the auction as a whole. So for the lot you lost, for example, no one could bid on it for hours so long as bids were being placed on other lots. Some auction houses close lot-by-lot using a 15/20 minute rule, but not REA.
There are other auction houses who can end the auction when the decide. Grey Flannel is one example. It's important to read each auction house's rules prior to bidding so there are no surprises. I do this for every auction because I have a difficult time keeping track of how each auction house handles things.
5 am EDT was pretty brutal, but late last year I got outbid on a lot at Grey Flannel at 7 am EDT after being high bidder for about 9 hours. I'm on the west coast and figured someone may have woken up on the east coast and decided to bid again. That was pretty disappointing.
Runscott
05-20-2013, 02:22 PM
You "snipe" to save money, which is true even for the big boys, or even more so as each additional bid increment + BP is in the 10's of thousands of dollars. So you bid as late as possible, hoping that your rivals have already gone to bed and will not counter. Everyone says leave your max bid, but often times, the max bid is someone's "reasonable" bid, and not truly their max. Also, many bidders are still concerned with shilling, so don't like leaving max bids. As to why risk REA ending early, I think the psychology is, these are such huge dollar items. Every additional bid increment is tons of money for the consignor and BP to the auction house. The auction house will not end the auction without at least giving the other party 10 minutes or so to counter before ending the auction.
I agree completely with everything you stated. In chat, we surmised that as long as a few of the huge items (like the BN Ruth) were still getting action, everyone felt comfortable dinking around about putting their bids in.
Also, while it's disappointing for a bid to come out of nowhere at 3:00 a.m., when the item's been dormant forever, in my case it was a good thing - I had been questioning the wisdom of my bid and was happy to lose the lot.
AMBST95
05-20-2013, 02:52 PM
I would be willing to bet that if this were tried, the auction would end at 2-4 am the next night, rather than in the afternoon.
I'm just saying that if you're going to pick a random time to end an ongoing auction, do it while everyone is awake. What's the harm in letting extended bidding run a few more hours if bids still keep coming in? This way your bidders don't feel like they get taken advantage of based on where they live and your consigners get the extra bidding time to realize a higher profit. By just adjusting the time of the start of extended bidding you would be able to accomplish this. Start it at like 8am EST so the East Coast can get the ball rolling and end it around midnight if bids still are coming in and the whole country is reasonably awake still. No different than the current set up except now you lose bidders due to exhaustion.
mybuddyinc
05-20-2013, 03:57 PM
In order to Snipe, you must be a Snark:
"Its habit of getting up late you'll agree
That it carries too far, when I say
That it frequently breakfasts at five-o'clock tea,
And dines on the following day."
Pretty sure I quoted this in the 2012 REA thread, I don't bring much to the table. :rolleyes: