T206 Leach - oddity

[Marslife]

Hey All, I picked up this card today at the Pittsburgh card show. I bought a bunch of beaters of pittsburgh players from a dealer and this was in the lot. I bought it because it had a Piedmont back. All told the cost per card was cheap.

I brought it over to SGC with my other cards I was submitting and noticed the PB back underneath! What in the world?

The card appears authentic, SGC rep and I agree on that. It is obviously trimmed, but it has two backs!?!

has anyone seen anything like this?

thanks for any comments.

Cliff

99683

99684

99685

99686

99687

99688

99689

[auggiedoggy]

Its moulting! That is rare in a card. :rolleyes:

That's a new one on me!

[Cardboard Junkie]

Looks thick.....is it 2 whole cards stuck together? Then trimmed?

Skin job piedmont back pasted on polar bear? Then trimmed?

Are you getting it slabbed by tpg?

[Marslife]

the card appears to be one card width thick, it seems as though it is a Leach polar bear back, that has a thin paper Piedmont back over it? it must have been trimmed afterward because the edges all conform?

I was in the process of writing up cards for grading with the intent to have it slabbed. When I bought it I thought it was a black stain in the upper back corner. At the SGC table looking at it more closely I noticed the polar bear back underneath. The SGC rep stated that the Polar Bear back is more desirable, and I might want to try and soak the Piedmont layer off. He said he had never seen anything like it. So I brought it home. I will wait and see what the experts here say about it before doing anything with it.

thanks for your comments!

[Cardboard Junkie]

Good idea! Don't "mess" with it until some heavy hitters weigh in. Dave.

[steve B]

Since it would only be an "A" I'd keep it as-is for now.

It's certainly a curious thing, probably a skinned piedmont over a PB, but why? It's not a combination that would be more desirable, if anything the reback made it marginally less desirable, even going back a few years. PB isn't tough, but If I had two equal cards in hand I'd go for the PB over the piedmont.
It also seems odd that someone rebacking wouldn't use enough glue to keep the back on securely.

I wouldn't mind studying it, I think there's something to be learned even of it's just something about how the rebacking was done.

And if you've got to have graded I'd be happy to swap my Leach for it. (SC 350-30 probably grade a 20-30, creases but not trimmed)

Steve B

[thehoodedcoder]

how would you even slab it properly. what back do you give it? should it be real that is.

kevin

[Tao_Moko]

Good idea! Don't "mess" with it until some heavy hitters weigh in. Dave.

I don't understand. It's rebacked, trimmed and probably worth $15. What scenario makes this potentially special or rare?

[steve B]

Just a hint, when was it rebacked, why, and can the first two be proven.

The last is the tough question.

Steve B

[Marslife]

Thanks for the offer Steve, but I have the Sweet Cap back, I thought I would start a back run on some of the Pirates and thought this was a good opportunity to snatch up an affordable Piedmont back. I unknowingly scored a double bonus... here is the question, can I count this as two backs: Piedmont AND polar bear??? :)

I agree with you on the tough question as to how/why this happened. I am a new-by but have an interest in the origins of these cards and read many threads here. I would assume that there is a cardboard sheet that is then printed with a front and then a back. not two sheets printed and joined together. the only scenario I could see if someone printed too many PB backs then said oops, lets paste a sheet of Piedmont over it? does not make much sense.

more likely someone along the way did not like the polar bear back and peeled the back off a Piedmont and pasted it over the polar bear. I would assume it was a long time ago, as I agree with others that the PB back would likely be more desirable in today's market?

I have seen this once before on the non sports side where an N35 Editor card was re-backed with the wrong editors name (did not match the front). It was obviously not done at the printer as the edges were way off, so who knows...

thought I would share anyway. thanks again for the comments!

[steve B]

I think it would be interesting to see a few things, like what sort of paper stock the Piedmont back is. A peeled card usually shows a lot of roughness. If it was factory it should be on a smooth stock that looks factory made. The sort of glue would also be interesting. It's really odd that it's only a bit of glue, That makes me think someone might have wanted all their cards to be Piedmont.

Yes, sheets were printed, for T206 probably fronts first then backs. And usually it's not a thing where two sheets get glued together.
I've seen that done for thicker things though, and some Topps cards may have been done that way. I briefly worked on a place that made jigsaw puzzles (Like 2 weeks) and those were glued up from a bit of cardboard and the picture which was on thin paper. I'd guess because it was cheaper than a coated cardboard.

If you have a set of calipers, a typical T206 is .012

The thought that for some reason the factory might have done the rebacking, or that they might have assembled the sheets from thinner stock intrigues me enough that I think I'll measure the ones I have. That will give me enough info to know the normal range, and how much the stock actually varied. Just maybe I'll find one that's closer to .020 and that would be very interesting. Just as interesting would be if the blankbacks measure well under .012 A measurement around .007 would lead me to believe they were gluing the backs on.

All the more reason to leave the card as-is. If they were glued up and you've got an actual doubled back with a mismatched brand that's one seriously cool card.

All of which is, at the moment, merely crazy conjecture over what's probably someone's first attempt at rebacking a card.

Steve B

Steve B

[Cardboard Junkie]

I don't understand. It's rebacked, trimmed and probably worth $15. What scenario makes this potentially special or rare?

I just didn't want Eric to destoy his t206 by peeling off the piedmont back.
Also it is unknown who did the rebacking....perhaps it was a factory event.