Gentleman James (Jim) Corbett authenticity opinions

[thenavarro]

One fun thing about this board is that it's not typically shy about giving opinions. I recently bought this (haven't even received it yet), and wanted to get the board's opinions as to authenticity. I believe it's authentic or I wouldn't have purchased it, but I don't have a whole lot of experience with boxing graphs. As a matter of fact it will be only the 2nd signed boxing photo in my collection. (the first is a photo of me and Ali)



Inscription reads:

“To my old pal, Frank Cooley with best wishes from His old friend, Jim Corbett, Mar. 2/’22”

Here's the whole pic:
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/thenavarro/jimcorbettphoto_zps5f544b05.jpg
Here's the up close view:
http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/thenavarro/jimcorbettinscription_zps5979bf3c.jpg

[travrosty]

I will try find some 1922 examples and report back.

i got a call in to fighttoys.com and we will get some exemplars and look at it.

[thenavarro]

I will try find some 1922 examples and report back.

i got a call in to fighttoys.com and we will get some exemplars and look at it.


Thanks Travis. And in case anyone is wondering, this isn't a "gotcha" or something like that. It's a photo I found at one of the vendors I do business with and thought it would make a neat addition. I also got a Buffalo Bill Cody signed check from them that is pretty sweet.

[travrosty]

Thanks Travis. And in case anyone is wondering, this isn't a "gotcha" or something like that. It's a photo I found at one of the vendors I do business with and thought it would make a neat addition. I also got a Buffalo Bill Cody signed check from them that is pretty sweet.


i appreciate a boxing post, i know it is not a gotcha, we are gonna look at it for awhile to give a qualifed, informed opinion, as first glances and opinions either way might be incorrect after further review. i like to study boxing a autographs very thoroughly, even though i might have an initial thought on it ji still like to give it the full treatment just to make sure because each and every autograph deserves a proper, full inspection, and then we give the opinion so we don't feel sorry or regret later should a 'quick opinion' turn out to be wrong.

[shelly]

Thanks Travis. And in case anyone is wondering, this isn't a "gotcha" or something like that. It's a photo I found at one of the vendors I do business with and thought it would make a neat addition. I also got a Buffalo Bill Cody signed check from them that is pretty sweet.

Why is it when you want an opinion some one thinks that its a gotcha. I dont care if any tpa said it is good. I would trust Travis when it comes to boxing over anyone on this site or to be honest anyone.
Trust me it is like taking a pice of chalk and scraping it on a board. It really hurts that much to say that:o

[GrayGhost]

Great photo and yes, Travis is a boxing expert and has more knowledge than the TPA's. Plus, it will be STUDIED carefully he says..thats what you want to hear.

Not to bring up an old topic, but how can some TPA authenticate Ruth, Gehrig, Orr, the Beatles, Thomas Edison, George Washington, John Hancock, Neil Armstrong, Jimi Hendrix, etc.

[travrosty]

Why is it when you want an opinion some one thinks that its a gotcha. I dont care if any tpa said it is good. I would trust Travis when it comes to boxing over anyone on this site or to be honest anyone.
Trust me it is like taking a pice of chalk and scraping it on a board. It really hurts that much to say that:o


because there has been too many gotcha's in the past. that's why.


whats kind of weird is that authenticity answers are looked at with a time limit, and people want them fast, but there is no rush. getting it right is most important, not turn around, the tpa's are in a race to turn it around the fastest, at the sake of accuracy in my opinion. the one who turns it around the fastest, gets the business because collectors believe they can do the job real fast, and give an accurate opinion, but the collectors don't know what the real deal is. go fast, and make too many mistakes.

[thenavarro]

One thing I've learned from Travis is that the two primary TPA's are not really too proficient concerning boxing autographs. That's why I posted my Corbett photo here, rather then throwing the picture up on ebay and doing a "quick opinion".

From examples I've looked at online, I feel fairly confident that my Corbett photo would pass PSA/DNA and/or JSA, however, I'd rather know whether or not it's authentic, as opposed to whether or not it would pass a TPA.

Mike

[RichardSimon]

From examples I've looked at online, I feel fairly confident that my Corbett photo would pass PSA/DNA and/or JSA, however, I'd rather know whether or not it's authentic, as opposed to whether or not it would pass a TPA.

Mike

Mike,
So when it comes to boxing autographs you don't trust the Ouija board that is in Newport Beach?

[shelly]

That is the question. If you dont trust there opinion on boxing what make's them the expert in baseball,football, tennis, soccer, and all forms of the entertainment side.? It is an opinion. They never say it is authentic and take it to the bank.

[steve B]

whats kind of weird is that authenticity answers are looked at with a time limit, and people want them fast, but there is no rush. getting it right is most important, not turn around, the tpa's are in a race to turn it around the fastest, at the sake of accuracy in my opinion. the one who turns it around the fastest, gets the business because collectors believe they can do the job real fast, and give an accurate opinion, but the collectors don't know what the real deal is. go fast, and make too many mistakes.

I've got to say that while I'm not always on board with Travis opinions of TPAs, I totally agree with this point.

In stamps they don't specify any turnaround time. And the more controversial something is the more you need to send in along with it. In other words, sending in any stamp will take some time, I think 30-90 days. If it's something that's not well known sending in supporting documents cam be important. And that means it may take longer. And usually the result is "We decline to render an opinion" Which is neither good or bad just that with the current technology and knowledge they can't say with a comfortable degree of certainty. There's a group of Hawaiian stamps that are different from the known ones, but have supposedly good provenance. Multiple places have declared them as fakes, and finally they went to the royal philatelic society in the UK --- Which published a book explaining their opinion that they're fakes after 5 YEARS. (The group sold for I think 2-3 million anyway)

And yet, with a card or autograph the more it's expected to be worth the quicker they want it judged and shipped back out. :confused:
I get how a dealer might have a bit of cash tied up, and maybe the insurance co wants it in and out of the building as quickly as possible. But rushing the expensive stuff seems completely backwards.

Steve B

[thenavarro]

That is the question. If you dont trust there opinion on boxing what make's them the expert in baseball,football, tennis, soccer, and all forms of the entertainment side.? It is an opinion. They never say it is authentic and take it to the bank.

Ive got zero interest in addressing that. There are enough threads on here where people can discuss that. Im just looking to find out if my Corbett is authentic or not. Nothing more, nothing less.

[thenavarro]

From examples I've looked at online, I feel fairly confident that my Corbett photo would pass PSA/DNA

Mike

I picked up my Corbett photo today from the post office. Previously unbeknowsnt to me, it already has a full PSA/DNA LOA that was included. So I was correct in my assesment that it would pass PSA/DNA. And for those that would ask, no, when purchasing items (with a few exceptions), I typically don't ask if it has any certs with it. I try to use my best judgement first and for the most part, rely on my own gut. (as opposed to selling, where even if I feel or know an item is authentic, for items where a third party TPA will add to the final sale price and marketability, I will get all those authenticated by TPA's)

As mentioned in my initial post, I do believe this one to be authentic or I wouldn't have bought it, but I do know there are people with a heckuva lot more experience with boxing than I have. Hopefully, my disclosing that it is PSA/DNA, won't jaundice future opinions on it.

Mike

[travrosty]

we are still looking at it, i am getting mark o.'s opinion on it, and he is only available from time to time, so when we get a good hold on it, we will report back.


look at all the big tpa's, you wont find boxing specialists, and jsa certified that corbett signed cut last year that.... well, you know my feelings about that one.

[toybulldog]

A close-up on the signature and inscription would be helpful.

[thenavarro]

I'll scan it tomorrow. I'm spending tonight camping out in the outfield of Rangers Ballpark with my daughter :)

[thenavarro]

A close-up on the signature and inscription would be helpful.

Here ya go

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/thenavarro/corbettinscription_zps7fe01b7b.jpg

[gnaz01]

Here ya go

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/thenavarro/corbettinscription_zps7fe01b7b.jpg

Mike, I have no opinion as I don't know anything about Corbett's signature, but if it is real, it is SPECTACULAR!!!!!!!!!!!

[thenavarro]

Mike, I have no opinion as I don't know anything about Corbett's signature, but if it is real, it is SPECTACULAR!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Greg, it's definitely a sharp looking piece

mike

[Sean1125]

That is the question. If you dont trust there opinion on boxing what make's them the expert in baseball,football, tennis, soccer, and all forms of the entertainment side.? It is an opinion. They never say it is authentic and take it to the bank.

Shelly, to be objective here - is Travis an expert in baseball, football, tennis, etc? I have asked Travis' opinion on boxing before and I would consider it a definitive answer.

I trust PSA on the majority of baseball to get it right but I would trust several members on these boards opinion much more than any mainstream authenticator.

[thenavarro]

Did find out from a member that there was a stage actor and director named Frank Cooley during that time. Don't know if it's the same Cooley or not, but since Corbett apparently dabbled in acting as well, I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same guy.

[JimStinson]

Looks like no one has pulled the trigger on this one yet so I will. Corbett usually almost always signed his name Jas. J. Corbett, Unusual to see one signed "Jim", however, he had a habit of dating what he signed and a unique way of dating it , Month , day, a line and then the last two digits of the year. This one fits that , He had a distinctive capitol "T" in To to start the inscription , this one fits , his inscriptions were usually more lines than words (a couple words per line) This one fits , Ink seems darker than it should be BUT I'll guess this is heavy stock double weight paper which would absorb more ink and keep the signature dark these many years. Lastly disregarding the unusual "Jim" instead of typical "Jas. J." the last name is a match. So if any of the above makes sense :) In conclusion I'd say its good.
By the way Corbett wrote his own auto biography its called "The Roar of the Crowd" One of the best sport related books ever even if you are not a boxing fan its a great read. Corbett was very active in vaudeville as was the person the photo is inscribed to as mentioned in an earlier post. Enough supporting evidence for a thumbs up IMHO, Nice Snag !
__________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[thenavarro]

thanks Jim

I appreciate the analysis

mike

[JimStinson]

Spoken like a true "Gentleman"..:) Glad to oblige also to add to the mix , The following about Corbett and the Corbett FRANK COOLEY connection ...

His bout with Steve O'Donnell was stopped when Corbett was told of the deaths of his parents. Patrick Corbett had bet his net worth on Jim's 17 March 1897 title defense against Bob Fitzsimmons. Jim's defeat ruined the elder Corbett, whom, police concluded, shot his wife then himself in a fit of dementia. (16 August 1898), Though devastated by the 1898 murder/suicide of his parents, Corbett continued his successful acting career on Broadway, and in early movies.

Corbett acted in 10 films up until 1930 and even married an actress. Frank Cooley was a silent film & stage actor in addition to being a director active until his death in 1941. So its more than likely their careers overlapped many times and were indeed friends.
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[Mr. Zipper]

Thanks for the insight, Jim.

Very good to see you posting again. :)

[thecatspajamas]

Thanks for the insight, Jim.

Very good to see you posting again. :)

+1

[JimStinson]

Thanks a million.
Cool Trivia question ...What former major league baseball player is the only player in history who's brother was the heavyweight champion of the World?"
________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[thecatspajamas]

Thanks a million.
Cool Trivia question ...What former major league baseball player is the only player in history who's brother was the heavyweight champion of the World?"
________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Joe Corbett?

(Subject of the thread kind of lobbed it out there, but had no idea he was the only one. Neat!)

[JimStinson]

LOL...it was kinda like a blooper pitch destined for a tape measure blast , but correct. Interesting though in that his autograph is FAR MORE valuable than his brother's.

Joe Corbett
Washington Senators (1895)
Baltimore Orioles (1896–1897)
St. Louis Cardinals (1904)
Died -1945
_________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[Lordstan]

Thanks for the insight, Jim.

Very good to see you posting again. :)

+1 million.
Jim,
We need a few good stories.
Mark

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[ibuysportsephemera]

So when everything was said and done....what did Travis say about this autograph?

Jeff

[thetruthisoutthere]

So when everything was said and done....what did Travis say about this autograph?

Jeff

Has it been six weeks yet...........

[thenavarro]

So when everything was said and done....what did Travis say about this autograph?

Jeff

Jeff,

I did not hear a final decision from Travis, nor did I see one posted anywhere. However, we all know authentication cannot be rushed, so he is probably still studying and researching to make his determination. In all fairness, I did not pay for his opinion, so I shouldn't expect to receive it, nor do I subscribe to his particular mantra, so if he doesn't want to assist when the time comes, that's fine too. However, another very knowledgeable boxing collector, Mark Ogren, posted a couple of screen shots from his fantastic exemplar collection, which leads me to believe that Mr. Ogren thinks my Corbett was authentic. I make that assumption, perhaps erroneously, from the file names that you can see at the top of each exemplar. If you look at my photo on his screen, you will see the date and sr.jpg. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that is the convention he uses for naming the authentic ones. If you look at his exemplar screen shots, you will see some termed Non authentic or something along those lines in the file name. To the best of my knowledge and belief, the file name on mine does not say that and is in the convention of the authentic exemplars. Who knows though. Perhaps Mark will chime in and say that's not what his file naming conventions mean, or that he mistakenly labeled mine authentic and it's not. I do know that after all my research into it, in my untrained boxing autograph eye, it appears to me to have enough similarities to other Corbett signatures of that time period that are purported to be authentic.

I believe it's 100% legit.

Here's the screenshots to peruse.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/thenavarro/corbett1_zps039dbcd7.jpg

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/thenavarro/corbett2_zpsab5386e8.jpg

[ibuysportsephemera]

Jeff,

I did not hear a final decision from Travis, nor did I see one posted anywhere. However, we all know authentication cannot be rushed, so he is probably still studying and researching to make his determination. In all fairness, I did not pay for his opinion, so I shouldn't expect to receive it, nor do I subscribe to his particular mantra, so if he doesn't want to assist when the time comes, that's fine too. However, another very knowledgeable boxing collector, Mark Ogren, posted a couple of screen shots from his fantastic exemplar collection, which leads me to believe that Mr. Ogren thinks my Corbett was authentic. I make that assumption, perhaps erroneously, from the file names that you can see at the top of each exemplar. If you look at my photo on his screen, you will see the date and sr.jpg. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe that is the convention he uses for naming the authentic ones. If you look at his exemplar screen shots, you will see some termed Non authentic or something along those lines in the file name. To the best of my knowledge and belief, the file name on mine does not say that and is in the convention of the authentic exemplars. Who knows though. Perhaps Mark will chime in and say that's not what his file naming conventions mean, or that he mistakenly labeled mine authentic and it's not. I do know that after all my research into it, in my untrained boxing autograph eye, it appears to me to have enough similarities to other Corbett signatures of that time period that are purported to be authentic.

I believe it's 100% legit.

Here's the screenshots to peruse.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/thenavarro/corbett1_zps039dbcd7.jpg

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/thenavarro/corbett2_zpsab5386e8.jpg

I agree Mike...I think it looks good as well. I hated to hijack your thread...but with all the drama surrounding Travis, I wanted to see what constructive threads (if any) that Travis was involved in. This was the best I could find, and it didn't appear that he followed up with you.

All the best.

Jeff

[chaddurbin]

funny, so they hijacked your scan to put in their examplar files, but didn't have the courtesy to at least tell you it's authentic...or taking your photo.

[thenavarro]

funny, so they hijacked your scan to put in their examplar files, but didn't have the courtesy to at least tell you it's authentic...or taking your photo.

Mark added the following line when he posted the exemplar pic:

"Compliments of the boxing guys if it will help alleviate the silly Jim Corbett issue:"

then underneath that he posted the exemplar pic that contained my pic.

Perhaps not the most direct way to state something, and again, I might have inferred wrong, but I believe in context of his post, that meant he (Mark O.) thought it was real. Perhaps also, when he used the term "boxing guys", maybe he meant Travis as well, and perhaps he was speaking (by typing) for him too. I'm not sure and didn't care to inquire further at the time.

Mike

[Exhibitman]

Mark added the following line when he posted the exemplar pic:

"Compliments of the boxing guys if it will help alleviate the silly Jim Corbett issue:"



Shouldn't that be the boxing "group"?