Need some help on an authenticator

[gomer183]

I've been dealing with Pristine Auction for several months now. Usually they have been pretty good about authenticity. Recently they have listed an individual name Todd Mueller as an authenticator. Can anybody give me a yea or a nay or somewhere I can look to form my own opinion. Thanks

[shelly]

If I remember there have been many comments made about him. Some good mostly bad. My question is? If they use Psa and Jimmy why would you go to other people?:confused:

[travrosty]

If I remember there have been many comments made about him. Some good mostly bad. My question is? If they use Psa and Jimmy why would you go to other people?:confused:

That's the dumbest thing i have ever heard, if they use psa and jimmy that is the biggest reason to go to someone else, and mueller is a stand up guy who knows his stuff, the mueller haters are just people who love the status quo of psa and jsa trying to control the autograph world.

Pristine states global and jsa as their authenticators.

The mueller coa you see is todd's coa that he includes on everything he sells, the items that are listed as authentication: Todd Mueller are items that are consigned that already had a mueller coa because the consignor bought it from Todd, or bought it from soeone who bought it from Todd.

Todd is not a third party authenticator like jsa or global who certs stuff that he doesn't own. that's what is confusing you. but if he ever did that he would be a top notch guy to go to within his specialties. I can vouch for him, he knows what he is doing. He broke the pawn stars al pacino story when psa and jsa';s guy Reznikoff didnt know the difference between al pacino's signature and al ruddy's signature. Todd knew instantly. Todd is 'da man!

[earlywynnfan]

Did they list him as an authenticator, or are they selling items with his LOA? I don't think he does outside authentication, at least not anymore.

He stands behind his items, and you can easily reach him on the phone. While he may not be perfect, I think the above two points give him an advantage over some others.

Ken

[travrosty]

Did they list him as an authenticator, or are they selling items with his LOA? I don't think he does outside authentication, at least not anymore.

He stands behind his items, and you can easily reach him on the phone. While he may not be perfect, I think the above two points give him an advantage over some others. Here is one, i can see where someone would think he is a 3rd party authenticator, because the way it is listed.


https://pristineauction.com/auctions/index/details/id/98766/Tennessee-Williams-Signed-Vintage-1978-Bank-Check-(Mueller-COA)

Ken



earlywynn fan

agreed.

they are listing his coa's that he gives out himself. but they list Authentication: todd mueller and that is confusing people. not a third party authenticator, authenticates his own stuff as a dealer.

[shelly]

That's the dumbest thing i have ever heard, if they use psa and jimmy that is the biggest reason to go to someone else, and mueller is a stand up guy who knows his stuff, the mueller haters are just people who love the status quo of psa and jsa trying to control the autograph world.

Pristine states global and jsa as their authenticators.

The mueller coa you see is todd's coa that he includes on everything he sells, the items that are listed as authentication: Todd Mueller are items that are consigned that already had a mueller coa because the consignor bought it from Todd, or bought it from soeone who bought it from Todd.

Todd is not a third party authenticator like jsa or global who certs stuff that he doesn't own. that's what is confusing you. but if he ever did that he would be a top notch guy to go to within his specialties. I can vouch for him, he knows what he is doing. He broke the pawn stars al pacino story when psa and jsa';s guy Reznikoff didnt know the difference between al pacino's signature and al ruddy's signature. Todd knew instantly. Todd is 'da man!
Yea Travis you win.

[Big Dave]

I'm going to go with Travis too. Have dealt with Todd for many years and he is a stand up guy who backs everything he sells with his word, and backs that up with action if needed. He was the largest seller of autographs on eBay for many years until he got tired of their bs. I would have no problem buying anything from him, or with his COA.

[shelly]

wrong thread.

[thetruthisoutthere]

This was sold on Todd "Da Man" Mueller's auction site.

Mueller claimed it was given to the consignor by an employee of the NY Yankees.


92474

[Fuddjcal]

and this was sold by Todd Mueller on his site a couple of years ago. He argues with me ad nauseum about the "providence"...and I have a bridge for you. The only providence attached to this piece is Tony "don't call me Jorge" Podsada.

I agree with Travis that he has done some good things, but when a guy can argue with me for 5 pages why this Mantle is good, I think they have brain damage and I wouldn't buy a piece of Bazooka Bubble gum from him.

I like his idea with a lifetime guarantee and all but unfortunately, the guy has more stories than HG WELLS. What good would a lifetime guarantee do when the guy won't admit a mistake? Truly a douche who hides behind his religion. Guys like this that evoke God in their arguments are prone to lying. Anyone running a business knows his sect is BAD NEWS. In TODD we don't trust.

[shelly]

The Mantle is a total piece of garbage. There is no one that could defend it except Ted Taylor or Morales.:eek:

[RichardSimon]

Mantle autographs don't get any worse than the one on that picture.
It has a suntan from Florida and I am sure it has Florida beach sand on it too.

[thenavarro]

Here’s my take on Todd. First, a little background. I have known Todd since the mid 90’s. I live just South of Dallas, and Todd used to have his business at The Colony, a community North of Dallas. He and I used to frequent a particular autograph business in Richardson, and that’s where I met him. We would both buy/sell/trade etc, with the owner. Once I became friends with Todd, he would send me his autograph auction lists, which at that time was not really a catalog, just Xeroxed type pages. Eventually, it got to where I was buying and selling a lot (a lot by my standards then was a thousand or so a month) with him. Todd paid a nice price for quality pieces. I could buy/sell/trade with other collectors at shows, through magazines, direct mailing, etc., and Todd would pay a very fair price to where we could both make money as he had some clients that he could move the pieces too. I used to love going up to his warehouse, hanging out, bs-ing, talking graphs, and taking a carload full of stuff for him to consider buying. Most of the times, I’d leave with a nice check, which was always good, and most importantly, would clear  His mailing lists went from typed pages to black and white color catalogs, and business seemed to be going well. Then, ebay turned up, and slowly but surely, competition seemed to kick in. It became a bit harder to move pieces at mark ups. Eventually, his catalog auctions stopped completely I believe, and he came to rely on ebay for moving his product. At some point during that time period and the next couple years, he moved to Colorado I believe. I was disappointed to see him go, cause I had fun going to his warehouse and basically chatting with him. We had some joint friends in the business that we all did deals with. Somewhere along the line, some of his items began to disappear from ebay, because like ALL autograph dealers, some of his stuff was not legit. Sometimes, it really was legit, but ebay has certain opinions that it values more than others, so they would remove it anyway, and sometimes, it really was bogus and should be removed. Don’t forget here that ANY dealer that has been around a decent amount of time and tells you that they’ve never sold a fake, is full of BS. This is not an indictment, just a statement of fact that even the best intentioned people make mistakes occasionally. I think ebay suspended his account once or even twice for continuing to post those items, and it made him upset enough that he began his own website and own auction sales at his own site. It’s at this point too, that I believe that he began to go against the third party authentication aspect that was taking a foothold in the hobby because of good marketing and strategy. I don’t know this to be fact, but I think he aligned with Koschal around this time to create the Autograph Alert site that touted itself to be a watchdog, but that actually character assassinated a lot of former friends and associates. I was disappointed to find out that Todd might be a part of that. Again, I don’t know that to be a fact, but I have heard it from other people I trust. I think a lot of this was out of frustration, because the people on that site, thought they were BIG enough to put a dent into third party authentication since it had hurt their business, and they found out they were not as big as the marketing machine of a publicly held corporation. Thus, a lot of the people aligned through that process, have become the “champion” of bashing third party authentication and grading. You have seen the same or very similar dribble cut and pasted ad nauseum on many websites over the years.
As for Todd these days:
1) I still consider him an honest businessman. Meaning that I wouldn’t hesitate to send him an item first, and wouldn’t have any concerns with him stealing it, or that I wouldn’t get paid. I trust him to take care of those business aspects of transactions
2) I still occasionally buy stuff directly from his online auctions. As whenever I purchase anything, I try to do my research first, as again, he does have some items that IMO are bad, just like EVERY dealer has from time to time. He does occasionally have really nice items, and they go relatively cheap because of who is selling them. I was able to pick up a nice Babe Ruth a few months ago from Todd, that I had vetted on Net54, which I subsequently had slabbed by Spence and that I was able to move for a substantial profit rather quickly once slabbed.
3) If I bought an item from him that was later found to be bogus, I have little doubt that he’d take care of it. Todd is not a thief. I believe he is a little too trusting sometimes of “stories” that go along with graphs and relics, but he is not a thief.
4) Like most people in the business, I believe Todd to be a “niche” authenticator. Meaning he has good skills in some specific areas, but not in all, just like anyone else.
I believe when he alledgedly started the crusade against the TPA’s that it was done probably from a combination of spite, as well as a belief he had that it was the right thing for the industry. However, at some point along the line, I think it spiraled out of control for him, and his effort was joined by many that peddle almost nothing but fakes exclusively. I often wonder if he could go back and change the last few years, if he would. I haven’t asked him, but the Todd I knew back in the day, was a good guy.

[earlywynnfan]

and this was sold by Todd Mueller on his site a couple of years ago. He argues with me ad nauseum about the "providence"...and I have a bridge for you. The only providence attached to this piece is Tony "don't call me Jorge" Podsada.

I agree with Travis that he has done some good things, but when a guy can argue with me for 5 pages why this Mantle is good, I think they have brain damage and I wouldn't buy a piece of Bazooka Bubble gum from him.

I like his idea with a lifetime guarantee and all but unfortunately, the guy has more stories than HG WELLS. What good would a lifetime guarantee do when the guy won't admit a mistake? Truly a douche who hides behind his religion. Guys like this that evoke God in their arguments are prone to lying. Anyone running a business knows his sect is BAD NEWS. In TODD we don't trust.

Can't speak about this Mantle, but I do question your line "What good would a lifetime guarantee do when the guy won't admit a mistake?" because I vehemently disagree with it. I bought a Ted Wms signed bat from him a couple years ago. Maybe a year later, I posted the bat on this forum, and several called it out as bad, and showed me why. I called Todd, told him many told me it was bad, and the first thing he said was "I'm really sorry, send it back immediately."

Is he perfect? No, but as navarro said, nobody is. I find him, in my conversations and transactions with him, to be very honest.

Ken

[Fuddjcal]

Can't speak about this Mantle, but I do question your line "What good would a lifetime guarantee do when the guy won't admit a mistake?" because I vehemently disagree with it. I bought a Ted Wms signed bat from him a couple years ago. Maybe a year later, I posted the bat on this forum, and several called it out as bad, and showed me why. I called Todd, told him many told me it was bad, and the first thing he said was "I'm really sorry, send it back immediately."

Is he perfect? No, but as navarro said, nobody is. I find him, in my conversations and transactions with him, to be very honest.

Ken

I would give the man props in that case...nicely done, but shouldn't the self proclaimed best authenticator in the world know a thing about Mickey Mantle & Ted Williams before he puts his name behind it. Just one mans opinion.

[Fuddjcal]

Here’s my take on Todd. First, a little background. I have known Todd since the mid 90’s. I live just South of Dallas, and Todd used to have his business at The Colony, a community North of Dallas. He and I used to frequent a particular autograph business in Richardson, and that’s where I met him. We would both buy/sell/trade etc, with the owner. Once I became friends with Todd, he would send me his autograph auction lists, which at that time was not really a catalog, just Xeroxed type pages. Eventually, it got to where I was buying and selling a lot (a lot by my standards then was a thousand or so a month) with him. Todd paid a nice price for quality pieces. I could buy/sell/trade with other collectors at shows, through magazines, direct mailing, etc., and Todd would pay a very fair price to where we could both make money as he had some clients that he could move the pieces too. I used to love going up to his warehouse, hanging out, bs-ing, talking graphs, and taking a carload full of stuff for him to consider buying. Most of the times, I’d leave with a nice check, which was always good, and most importantly, would clear  His mailing lists went from typed pages to black and white color catalogs, and business seemed to be going well. Then, ebay turned up, and slowly but surely, competition seemed to kick in. It became a bit harder to move pieces at mark ups. Eventually, his catalog auctions stopped completely I believe, and he came to rely on ebay for moving his product. At some point during that time period and the next couple years, he moved to Colorado I believe. I was disappointed to see him go, cause I had fun going to his warehouse and basically chatting with him. We had some joint friends in the business that we all did deals with. Somewhere along the line, some of his items began to disappear from ebay, because like ALL autograph dealers, some of his stuff was not legit. Sometimes, it really was legit, but ebay has certain opinions that it values more than others, so they would remove it anyway, and sometimes, it really was bogus and should be removed. Don’t forget here that ANY dealer that has been around a decent amount of time and tells you that they’ve never sold a fake, is full of BS. This is not an indictment, just a statement of fact that even the best intentioned people make mistakes occasionally. I think ebay suspended his account once or even twice for continuing to post those items, and it made him upset enough that he began his own website and own auction sales at his own site. It’s at this point too, that I believe that he began to go against the third party authentication aspect that was taking a foothold in the hobby because of good marketing and strategy. I don’t know this to be fact, but I think he aligned with Koschal around this time to create the Autograph Alert site that touted itself to be a watchdog, but that actually character assassinated a lot of former friends and associates. I was disappointed to find out that Todd might be a part of that. Again, I don’t know that to be a fact, but I have heard it from other people I trust. I think a lot of this was out of frustration, because the people on that site, thought they were BIG enough to put a dent into third party authentication since it had hurt their business, and they found out they were not as big as the marketing machine of a publicly held corporation. Thus, a lot of the people aligned through that process, have become the “champion” of bashing third party authentication and grading. You have seen the same or very similar dribble cut and pasted ad nauseum on many websites over the years.
As for Todd these days:
1) I still consider him an honest businessman. Meaning that I wouldn’t hesitate to send him an item first, and wouldn’t have any concerns with him stealing it, or that I wouldn’t get paid. I trust him to take care of those business aspects of transactions
2) I still occasionally buy stuff directly from his online auctions. As whenever I purchase anything, I try to do my research first, as again, he does have some items that IMO are bad, just like EVERY dealer has from time to time. He does occasionally have really nice items, and they go relatively cheap because of who is selling them. I was able to pick up a nice Babe Ruth a few months ago from Todd, that I had vetted on Net54, which I subsequently had slabbed by Spence and that I was able to move for a substantial profit rather quickly once slabbed.
3) If I bought an item from him that was later found to be bogus, I have little doubt that he’d take care of it. Todd is not a thief. I believe he is a little too trusting sometimes of “stories” that go along with graphs and relics, but he is not a thief.
4) Like most people in the business, I believe Todd to be a “niche” authenticator. Meaning he has good skills in some specific areas, but not in all, just like anyone else.
I believe when he alledgedly started the crusade against the TPA’s that it was done probably from a combination of spite, as well as a belief he had that it was the right thing for the industry. However, at some point along the line, I think it spiraled out of control for him, and his effort was joined by many that peddle almost nothing but fakes exclusively. I often wonder if he could go back and change the last few years, if he would. I haven’t asked him, but the Todd I knew back in the day, was a good guy.

sounds like some great experiences...I certainly respect your opinion Mike

[earlywynnfan]

I would give the man props in that case...nicely done, but shouldn't the self proclaimed best authenticator in the world know a thing about Mickey Mantle & Ted Williams before he puts his name behind it. Just one mans opinion.

Well, I don't know where that quote came from, he's certainly never said anything like that to me, nor has he even showed that kind of attitude. However, I do agree he should be better at these big names.

Ken

[thetruthisoutthere]

and this was sold by Todd Mueller on his site a couple of years ago. He argues with me ad nauseum about the "providence"...and I have a bridge for you. The only providence attached to this piece is Tony "don't call me Jorge" Podsada.

I agree with Travis that he has done some good things, but when a guy can argue with me for 5 pages why this Mantle is good, I think they have brain damage and I wouldn't buy a piece of Bazooka Bubble gum from him.

I like his idea with a lifetime guarantee and all but unfortunately, the guy has more stories than HG WELLS. What good would a lifetime guarantee do when the guy won't admit a mistake? Truly a douche who hides behind his religion. Guys like this that evoke God in their arguments are prone to lying. Anyone running a business knows his sect is BAD NEWS. In TODD we don't trust.

Chuck is absolutely correct. No one has more stories than Todd "Da Man" Mueller.

Below is what Mueller wrote about the below wife-signed Willie Mays sig.

Todd wrote "I got Willie Mays in person at the Portland International Airport on Sept 8, 1988 and Willie signed on my shoulder."

92518

[travrosty]

Chuck is absolutely correct. No one has more stories than Todd "Da Man" Mueller.

Below is what Mueller wrote about the below wife-signed Willie Mays sig.

Todd wrote "I got Willie Mays in person at the Portland International Airport on Sept 8, 1988 and Willie signed on my shoulder."

92518



This is a red herring that has been corrected many times.

Todd Never said he go the mays signed in person, and Chris knows it, he keeps bringing it up, he is lying.

Todd said that the mays LOOKS like one he had gotten in person at the airport when he met Mays and Dimaggio. at the time todd said this he sent me a scan of the airport sig, here it is.

Chris keeps bringing up this lie about Todd, and Todd never said it in the first place. I agree with Mr. Navarro and big Dave and earlywynnfan, Todd is a good guy. You would know that if you ever took 10 minutes to call him or meet him in person and get to know him rather than to demonize him based on what others say about him who don't know him either.

Another poster said something I take offense to and it's the generalization that people who profess their religion publicly are a certain type of people like Todd is castigated to be. I openly talk about Christianity, and have talked to Todd about it on numerous occasions. It's called evangelization and it is what Christians are called to do and Todd has done many wonderful things through his religion and doesn't deserve to be called names or made fun of because of it because he never forces it on anybody.

[thetruthisoutthere]

This is a red herring that has been corrected many times.

Todd Never said he go the mays signed in person, and Chris knows it, he keeps bringing it up, he is lying.

Todd said that the mays LOOKS like one he had gotten in person at the airport when he met Mays and Dimaggio. at the time todd said this he sent me a scan of the airport sig, here it is.

Chris keeps bringing up this lie about Todd, and Todd never said it in the first place. I agree with Mr. Navarro, Todd is a good guy. You would know that if you ever took 10 minutes to call him or meet him in person and get to know him rather than to demonize him based on what others say about him who don't know him either.

I take offense to the generalization that people who profess their religion are a certain type of people like Todd is castigated to be. I openly talk about Christianity, and have talked to Todd about it on numerous occasions. It's called evangelization and it is what Christians are called to do and Todd has done many wonderful things through his religion and doesn't deserve to be called names or made fun of because of it.

I have the exact screen shot when Todd "Da Man" Mueller wrote that claim about the Willie Mays wife-signed sig.

And, Travis, you're the one that first called him "Da Man."

Next, Travis, you'll try to defend Mueller's claim about the Derek Jeter forgery he sold.

[David Atkatz]

My one experience with Mueller was both good and bad. I bought a dual-signed first-day cover in one of his auctions, supposedly signed by both Boris Karloff and Dwight Frye. A few months later, a fellow horror collector showed me the page from an RR Auctions catalog from which the signatures--and inscriptions--were copied. I presented the material to Todd, and he issued a refund.

He than cut the signatures apart, and re-sold them.

[thenavarro]

I agree with Mr. Navarro

I just wanted to save this one for the future, when Travis and I are bashing each other's opinions for our respective differences concerning TPA's. I can look back on this thread as a moment of peaceful harmony between us :)

Mike

[RichardSimon]

I just wanted to save this one for the future, when Travis and I are bashing each other's opinions for our respective differences concerning TPA's. I can look back on this thread as a moment of peaceful harmony between us :)

Mike

Nice,,, :o

[thetruthisoutthere]

My one experience with Mueller was both good and bad. I bought a dual-signed first-day cover in one of his auctions, supposedly signed by both Boris Karloff and Dwight Frye. A few months later, a fellow horror collector showed me the page from an RR Auctions catalog from which the signatures--and inscriptions--were copied. I presented the material to Todd, and he issued a refund.

He than cut the signatures apart, and re-sold them.

No, not Todd "Da Man" Mueller?"

Say it ain't so.....

[Fuddjcal]

My one experience with Mueller was both good and bad. I bought a dual-signed first-day cover in one of his auctions, supposedly signed by both Boris Karloff and Dwight Frye. A few months later, a fellow horror collector showed me the page from an RR Auctions catalog from which the signatures--and inscriptions--were copied. I presented the material to Todd, and he issued a refund.

He than cut the signatures apart, and re-sold them.

lol David, classic Todd story.......Let's all pray.:p

[Exhibitman]

My one experience with Mueller was both good and bad. I bought a dual-signed first-day cover in one of his auctions, supposedly signed by both Boris Karloff and Dwight Frye. A few months later, a fellow horror collector showed me the page from an RR Auctions catalog from which the signatures--and inscriptions--were copied. I presented the material to Todd, and he issued a refund.

He than cut the signatures apart, and re-sold them.

Sounds like a true horror story...

[thetruthisoutthere]

This is a red herring that has been corrected many times.

Todd Never said he go the mays signed in person, and Chris knows it, he keeps bringing it up, he is lying.

Todd said that the mays LOOKS like one he had gotten in person at the airport when he met Mays and Dimaggio. at the time todd said this he sent me a scan of the airport sig, here it is.

Chris keeps bringing up this lie about Todd, and Todd never said it in the first place. I agree with Mr. Navarro and big Dave and earlywynnfan, Todd is a good guy. You would know that if you ever took 10 minutes to call him or meet him in person and get to know him rather than to demonize him based on what others say about him who don't know him either.

Another poster said something I take offense to and it's the generalization that people who profess their religion publicly are a certain type of people like Todd is castigated to be. I openly talk about Christianity, and have talked to Todd about it on numerous occasions. It's called evangelization and it is what Christians are called to do and Todd has done many wonderful things through his religion and doesn't deserve to be called names or made fun of because of it because he never forces it on anybody.

I'm lying? Really?

93001

[travrosty]

I just wanted to save this one for the future, when Travis and I are bashing each other's opinions for our respective differences concerning TPA's. I can look back on this thread as a moment of peaceful harmony between us :)

Mike

agreed.

[travrosty]

I'm lying? Really?

93001



yes, you are . the one i showed is the one at the airport, with dimaggio, not the one you showed, he never claimed that that was the one he got signed at the airport. i showed the one he got signed at the airport. he only claimed that the one he got at the airport looked like the willie mays you didn't like, that is all.

i never claimed you lied by claiming he said he got an airport signature of mays, just that the one you didnt like was that same airport mays signature. that's where the lie comes in, because it's not, the airport mays signature is a different one that mueller only said LOOKED LIKE the mays you were panning.

This is the mays signature he was talking about, at the airport with dimaggio, when he met them in person. he still has this autograph because it is sentimental.

when he said that willie gave him a wife signature, he was talking about his observation that that signature looked like the other one, so if the other one was a wife signature, then the one he got in person must be a wife signature also. (sarcasm to prove a point). where is dimaggio on the other piece? not there because he wasn't talking about that one when he mentioned getting mays AND dimaggio.

[thetruthisoutthere]

yes, you are . the one i showed is the one at the airport, with dimaggio, not the one you showed, he never claimed that that was the one he got signed at the airport. i showed the one he got signed at the airport. he only claimed that the one he got at the airport looked like the willie mays you didn't like, that is all.

i never claimed you lied by claiming he said he got an airport signature of mays, just that the one you didnt like was that same airport mays signature. that's where the lie comes in, because it's not, the airport mays signature is a different one that mueller only said LOOKED LIKE the mays you were panning.

This is the mays signature he was talking about, at the airport with dimaggio, when he met them in person. he still has this autograph because it is sentimental.

when he said that willie gave him a wife signature, he was talking about his observation that that signature looked like the other one, so if the other one was a wife signature, then the one he got in person must be a wife signature also. (sarcasm to prove a point). where is dimaggio on the other piece? not there because he wasn't talking about that one when he mentioned getting mays AND dimaggio.

Now that "Todd Mueller" is a member of this site, maybe he can respond.

I'll be waiting....

[earlywynnfan]

I'm lying? Really?

93001

As an outside observer, I don't read this as he's talking about that Willie Mays auto. Did he come out and say he got the actual disputed auto in the airport?

Ken

[travrosty]

As an outside observer, I don't read this as he's talking about that Willie Mays auto. Did he come out and say he got the actual disputed auto in the airport?

Ken



no he didn't say that, he compared it to one he got in person at the airport, he thought they looked the same so if the disputed one is a wife signed, then he got a "wife" signed willie at the airport as well. chris doesn't understand that comparison.

[thetruthisoutthere]

no he didn't say that, he compared it to one he got in person at the airport, he thought they looked the same so if the disputed one is a wife signed, then he got a "wife" signed willie at the airport as well. chris doesn't understand that comparison.

But I do know when someone is lying, which seems to be the norm for Mueller.

[thetruthisoutthere]

no he didn't say that, he compared it to one he got in person at the airport, he thought they looked the same so if the disputed one is a wife signed, then he got a "wife" signed willie at the airport as well. chris doesn't understand that comparison.

Maybe Todd Mueller, who joined Net54 three days ago, can give us his usual long-winded explanation of that Willie Mays wife-signed signature he sold.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Maybe Todd Mueller, who joined Net54 three days ago, can give us his usual long-winded explanation of that Willie Mays wife-signed signature he sold.

By the way, I thought you had to be eighteen (18) to be on this site.

How was "Toddler Mueller" allowed to sign up?

[shelly]

I hate to say this but that is good. Toddler.:D
Chris why dont you show them what he wrote about you.? I am sure that will make Travis happy.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I hate to say this but that is good. Toddler.:D
Chris why dont you show them what he wrote about you.? I am sure that will make Travis happy.

All in good time.....

[earlywynnfan]

All in good time.....

YAY! More games!!

[thetruthisoutthere]

YAY! More games!!

Not games!!!!

Seriously stuff!!!!

[earlywynnfan]

Not games!!!!

Seriously stuff!!!!

Then do it already. Why the drama? Why the "Man behind the curtain" act?

[shelly]

Go for it. People will loose interest very quickly.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Go for it. People will loose interest very quickly.

It will be posted very soon (in a new thread).

[Big Dave]

I would hope it's not another.....glass houses episode.....that ended up being such a waste of time and effort for anybody that read it.

[HRBAKER]

Oh but Dave, it's not the Autograph Forum without a little drama is it? :)

[jgmp123]

Has Glass House been unveiled yet?

[JimStinson]

Oh but Dave, it's not the Autograph Forum without a little drama is it? :)

Is DUELING still illegal ? if not maybe Leon can add it as an event to the open bar and NET54 meet and greet at this year's National...:)
_________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[HRBAKER]

Is DUELING still illegal ? if not maybe Leon can add it as an event to the open bar and NET54 meet and greet at this year's National...:)
_________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

If they add that to the Agenda you may be able to make the Net54 Dinner a charge event! :D

[travrosty]

I would hope it's not another.....glass houses episode.....that ended up being such a waste of time and effort for anybody that read it.



exactly, a bunch of nothing.

[thetruthisoutthere]

exactly, a bunch of nothing.

Nope.

My "Glass Houses" thread was only "Part 1 Of A Ten-Part Series."

[JimStinson]

If they add that to the Agenda you may be able to make the Net54 Dinner a charge event! :D

ABSOLUTELY !!! We could make it a PAY PER VIEW event ! However I just checked and sadly dueling is STILL illegal ....Unless its done with BANJOS
Shucks !
____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[earlywynnfan]

Nope.

My "Glass Houses" thread was only "Part 1 Of A Ten-Part Series."

No, your "Glass Houses" thread was typical internet crap: throw out just a little information, stir the pot, open the rumor floodgates, let people's names twist in the wind. Either say something or shut up. The impression that I get from reading everyone else's responses to your innuendos is that I'm not the only one who has lost a lot of respect for you with these threads.

Do Travis' one-note rants get old? Yep. Does Nash have an agenda? Yep. Did you imagine Koschal typing autographalert while wearing a straitjacket? I did. But you know what? They idenfify who they are aiming at. They present their findings for all to see and judge (and they take their licks.) Just like you used to do with CC.

A while back, I asked you a simple question. You repeatedly have hammered TM about the Willie Mays auto. Fine. You said he told you he got it signed in person, and he admitted it to you. Fine. You were asked to present this proof, you did, and I pointed out that there was much room for interpretation. I am still awaiting your response, since your "smoking gun" was far from damning.



"Did you hear the big news about Chris? It's big big news! Big Big BIG news!! Check back in a week and maybe I'll tell you what it is. Or maybe I won't."

Ken

[Big Dave]

+1

...and I must say...if the other 9 parts of your "series" is as informative or entertaining as episode one, please spare us and just keep it to yourself.

[thetruthisoutthere]

+1

...and I must say...if the other 9 parts of your "series" is as informative or entertaining as episode one, please spare us and just keep it to yourself.

If the other "person" keeps up his end of his "10 part" series, then so will I.

[David Atkatz]

If the other "person" keeps up his end of his "10 part" series, then so will I.

...and Net54 members be damned!

[Big Dave]

Chris....it is your 10 part series you allude to.....don't wait on Nash to post something.

[Mr. Zipper]

This is exactly what Chris is referring to...

http://autographnewslive.com/
Christopher Williams, Be Glad You’re Not Him or Her

This is the type of vile, fabricated slime that not-so-coincidentally appears shortly after anyone crosses Todd Mueller. You know, Travis' patron saint.

Mr. Mueller will obviously deny it, but the pattern and connection is clear and obvious. Ask Steve Cyrkin or Roger Epperson or John Reznikoff. All regular targets of this "anonymous" smear machine.

Ken and Dave, how would you feel if YOU were the feature story of a web page like this? Would Travis and his anonymous pals seem so innocuous?

Travis will scream about PSA and JSA all day long, but he'll never condemn this garbage. Why? Despite his predictable claims that he knows nothing about it, deep down he knows he'd be biting the hand that feeds him.

[thetruthisoutthere]

This is exactly what Chris is referring to...

http://autographnewslive.com/
Christopher Williams, Be Glad You’re Not Him or Her

This is the type of vile, fabricated slime that not-so-coincidentally appears shortly after anyone crosses Todd Mueller. You know, Travis' patron saint.

Mr. Mueller will obviously deny it, but the pattern and connection is clear and obvious. Ask Steve Cyrkin or Roger Epperson or John Reznikoff. All regular targets of this "anonymous" smear machine.

Ken and Dave, how would you feel if YOU were the feature story of a web page like this? Would Travis and his anonymous pals seem so innocuous?

Travis will scream about PSA and JSA all day long, but he'll never condemn this garbage. Why? Despite his predictable claims that he knows nothing about it, deep down he knows he'd be biting the hand that feeds him.

I'm curious who wrote that.

Did Travis write it? Did Todd Mueller write it?

I consider that blog a "badge of honor" coming from those guys.

Funny how that "badge of honor" appeared approximately 24 hours after I criticized Todd "Da Man" Mueller.

Travis and Todd, did you think I was going to back off or stop after that "badge of honor" was posted on ANL?

[Big Dave]

Steve,

Personally, I find the allegations in regard to someone's personal life uncalled for. It distracts from anything factual and discredits the writer. I did not see anywhere on the site about who the owner is, or who wrote that. If you have proof, because nothing about who wrote that is obvious to me, about who wrote that, please post. This was the first time I have read that site so it is new to me.

If you believe Todd Mueller wrote that, please offer your proof.

[thetruthisoutthere]

This is exactly what Chris is referring to...

http://autographnewslive.com/
Christopher Williams, Be Glad You’re Not Him or Her

This is the type of vile, fabricated slime that not-so-coincidentally appears shortly after anyone crosses Todd Mueller. You know, Travis' patron saint.

Mr. Mueller will obviously deny it, but the pattern and connection is clear and obvious. Ask Steve Cyrkin or Roger Epperson or John Reznikoff. All regular targets of this "anonymous" smear machine.

Ken and Dave, how would you feel if YOU were the feature story of a web page like this? Would Travis and his anonymous pals seem so innocuous?

Travis will scream about PSA and JSA all day long, but he'll never condemn this garbage. Why? Despite his predictable claims that he knows nothing about it, deep down he knows he'd be biting the hand that feeds him.

No way Travis condemns that. He would be ostracized by his friends over there. That's why he defends Mueller so fervently.

[earlywynnfan]

This is exactly what Chris is referring to...

http://autographnewslive.com/
Christopher Williams, Be Glad You’re Not Him or Her

This is the type of vile, fabricated slime that not-so-coincidentally appears shortly after anyone crosses Todd Mueller. You know, Travis' patron saint.

Mr. Mueller will obviously deny it, but the pattern and connection is clear and obvious. Ask Steve Cyrkin or Roger Epperson or John Reznikoff. All regular targets of this "anonymous" smear machine.

Ken and Dave, how would you feel if YOU were the feature story of a web page like this? Would Travis and his anonymous pals seem so innocuous?

Travis will scream about PSA and JSA all day long, but he'll never condemn this garbage. Why? Despite his predictable claims that he knows nothing about it, deep down he knows he'd be biting the hand that feeds him.

This is the first I've ever seen that site. My take?? Chris struck a nerve, good for him!! Perhaps it's Mueller. Perhaps it's Travis. Perhaps it's me!! But if I'm attacked with lies (I assume -- I really only read as far as when the poster called him "Christy"), I just ignore it. What's the point? I work with children all day, and one thing I've learned is: YOU CAN'T WIN!

Now, Zip, let me ask you this: Chris has his panties in a bunch because of this anonymous posting. (Not saying he doesn't have every right to, just stating what appears to be the motive.) But he has been bashing Mueller here for months, years even. Why is that OK?? Should Todd just take it? Now if Todd made this posting, or had someone do it for him, he's in the wrong, and I'd say this is worse than garbage.

MEMO TO CHRIS: whoever did this is scum! But how about you do us all a favor and avoid dragging that scum into our little "pond." Out every single fake you can. Don't let hypocrisy go unnoticed! Shout out when the Emperor has no clothes! But for the forum's sake, keep the juvenile sh*t off the forum!

Ken

[earlywynnfan]

...and Net54 members be damned!

David, you've shown remarkable restraint in this thread. This has been, no offense, refreshing. However, this comment was PERFECT.

Ken

[travrosty]

This is exactly what Chris is referring to...

http://autographnewslive.com/
Christopher Williams, Be Glad You’re Not Him or Her

This is the type of vile, fabricated slime that not-so-coincidentally appears shortly after anyone crosses Todd Mueller. You know, Travis' patron saint.

Mr. Mueller will obviously deny it, but the pattern and connection is clear and obvious. Ask Steve Cyrkin or Roger Epperson or John Reznikoff. All regular targets of this "anonymous" smear machine.

Ken and Dave, how would you feel if YOU were the feature story of a web page like this? Would Travis and his anonymous pals seem so innocuous?

Travis will scream about PSA and JSA all day long, but he'll never condemn this garbage. Why? Despite his predictable claims that he knows nothing about it, deep down he knows he'd be biting the hand that feeds him.


have you stopped beating your wife? what a loaded piece of garbage. you dont know who wrote it so you infer i had something to do with it. that's the scummy part. you guys play your little games. i don't have time for it. you have no proof of anything but cast dispersions anyway and i have proof psa and jsa screwup on a regular basis and you say that i am just cherry picking and not being fair.

i have boxing to look at and participate in and like other people said, you like to drag others into this stuff that i have nothing to do with, and you don't know who writes it but it's guilty until proven innocent like usual with you guys, and of course it is net54's problem now.

Richard Jewell was guilty of the olympic park bombings too until we found out he didn't do it. whether his life got ruined by people jumping on the "guilty" train was of no consequence to the "guilty until proven innocent" crowd.

Thanks for indicting me.

Please don't join the close knit boxing collectibles hobby. We haven't seen the likes of people like you two there yet in the 25 years I have been participating and we don't need to start now.

[mighty bombjack]

Wow, I'm perturbed that I even clicked on that auto news live site, and I won't go back. What a representation of the worst that the Internet has to offer. Just sad.

[thetruthisoutthere]

This is exactly what Chris is referring to...

http://autographnewslive.com/
Christopher Williams, Be Glad You’re Not Him or Her

Travis will scream about PSA and JSA all day long, but he'll never condemn this garbage. Why?

We were right, Mr. Zipper.

He can't condemn that article. He'll be ostracized from the ANL community.

[shelly]

I know there are people on this site that know how to trace where something came from.
What ever you think of anyone of one this site this really is just pure hate and being evil. :mad:

Travis stop being a martyr it does not become you.

[Mr. Zipper]

you dont know who wrote it so you infer i had something to do with it. that's the scummy part. you guys play your little games. i don't have time for it. you have no proof of anything but cast dispersions

No worries, Travis. I never accused you of writing it because I know you didn't write it. It is too well constructed to be written by you. I never claimed Mueller "wrote it" either. I just noted how slimy articles "coincidentally" appear smearing those who criticize Mr. Mueller. Time after time after time.

So we can ignore an obvious and repeating pattern or reach a logical conclusion based on that set of recurring circumstances.

Are you so dense or naive to believe he has no involvement or influence over that demented, pathetic site?

[thetruthisoutthere]

I have no problems with anyone criticizing what I do or the manner in which I do it.

I have both the good guys and bad guys hating me. I'm not here to win a popularity contest. I have no issues at all with that. There are only a handful of us (Mr. Zipper, Richard, Shelly, and few others) who are pro-active and deal with the bad guys on almost a daily basis in the mud. It's what we've chosen to do.

But the slime over there at ANL is beyond comprehension. It's a site that supports Chris Morales. I think that says it all.

[shelly]

Steve, it is so disgusting that anyone who even thinks that there is no correlation between what Chris said and 24 hours latter this kind of hate mongering takes place is out of there minds. :(

[earlywynnfan]

Travis, for the love of God, end this now:

"I, Travis, think ANL is crap."

Then they all can kiss your hiney.

Ken

[RichardSimon]

This does suck beyond any normal in-fighting that goes on in this business.
The personal attacks like that one have no place in this business and this type of attack is way beyond any other I have ever seen.
Whoever is responsible for this has sunk to a depth that nobody else in the hobby has sunk to before and they really need to stop it now.
Business disagreements are one thing, this crap is totally beyond the norm and should be condemned by all.
Enough is enough.

[shelly]

Travis, for the love of God, end this now:

"I, Travis, think ANL is crap."

Then they all can kiss your hiney.

Ken

Ken, I have no idea why your so upset. That piece of garbage didn't mention you.
If he did I would be saying the same thing I said on Chris's behalf. Not only you but anyone one this site. I know you really dont care about what I think but you should care that there is someone out there that is that sick.
Do you not see anything strange what took place in the last 24 hours.
Why in the world if Travis said anything like you suggested would anyone believe it now. He had his chance.:confused:
I agree this should stop but not because someone has to kiss someones a=s. I have had many things said about me but nothing like this.
This is just pure hate. I am just amazed how many of you have said nothing.
I do have one question? I know that we have a new memeber on this site and he has not opened his mouth I just wonder why?

[earlywynnfan]

Ken, I have no idea why your so upset. That piece of garbage didn't mention you.
If he did I would be saying the same thing I said on Chris's behalf. Not only you but anyone one this site. I know you really dont care about what I think but you should care that there is someone out there that is that sick.
Do you not see anything strange what took place in the last 24 hours.
Why in the world if Travis said anything like you suggested would anyone believe it now. He had his chance.:confused:
I agree this should stop but not because someone has to kiss someones a=s. I have had many things said about me but nothing like this.
This is just pure hate. I am just amazed how many of you have said nothing.
I do have one question? I know that we have a new memeber on this site and he has not opened his mouth I just wonder why?

I think my intentions didn't come through clearly. Yes, I'm angry about how this thread has gone: angry about that POS website. I wanted what I clearly posted: Travis to come out and bash that site. Then, yes, all of you would have the opportunity to apologize to him. But if he won't, well, silence is damning.

Just like I gave Chris the opportunity to clear up what he said. You'll notice he has posted multiple times, but has yet to answer EITHER of my posts. He, too, has made assertions that he has yet to back up.

Right now, I feel that BOTH members have lost credibility.

And as for TM, after I get home from work today, I'm going to call him and ask him directly if he's associated with that garbage site. Have you thought of doing the same??

Ken

[Fuddjcal]

This is exactly what Chris is referring to...

http://autographnewslive.com/
Christopher Williams, Be Glad You’re Not Him or Her

This is the type of vile, fabricated slime that not-so-coincidentally appears shortly after anyone crosses Todd Mueller. You know, Travis' patron saint.

Mr. Mueller will obviously deny it, but the pattern and connection is clear and obvious. Ask Steve Cyrkin or Roger Epperson or John Reznikoff. All regular targets of this "anonymous" smear machine.

Ken and Dave, how would you feel if YOU were the feature story of a web page like this? Would Travis and his anonymous pals seem so innocuous?

Travis will scream about PSA and JSA all day long, but he'll never condemn this garbage. Why? Despite his predictable claims that he knows nothing about it, deep down he knows he'd be biting the hand that feeds him.

probably one of the worst and least informative, one way slanted jack asses that run that site. Where 75-90% of what you read on sites like this might be true, there is usually 1-2% truth coming from that bashing, slanderous one way blog. That article is sickening. The fact that Travis doesn't condemn it is also telling about his overall character. Very angry and unhappy individual to not condemn that article on every level.

[Fuddjcal]

Travis, for the love of God, end this now:

"I, Travis, think ANL is crap."

Then they all can kiss your hiney.

Ken

+1

[shelly]

Chuck, remeber Todd is on this site as well.

[Leon]

+1

I think whomever is behind and writing for ANL is a sleazy piece of sh**. They are cowards of the highest nature. They will get theirs though. In life, Karma is a mo fo.........

[travrosty]

probably one of the worst and least informative, one way slanted jack asses that run that site. Where 75-90% of what you read on sites like this might be true, there is usually 1-2% truth coming from that bashing, slanderous one way blog. That article is sickening. The fact that Travis doesn't condemn it is also telling about his overall character. Very angry and unhappy individual to not condemn that article on every level.

you are being ridiculous, i have nothing to do with it, and asking me to condemn it by singling me out is what is sleazy, it implies i am somehow guilty. ask all hundreds of members of net54 then if everyone is equally innocent? by singling me out you are implying i have more to atone for than anyone else, when i have nothing to atone for.

arnold shwarzenegger is innocent and has nothing to atone for but to single him out and insist he specifically condemn nazism because his dad was an austrian police chief and a member of the nazi party is to brand arnold as somehow guilty of other peoples actions. It's sick, ridiculous and shameful and if arnold wanted to tell people where they could go with their sleazy guilt-by-association games that they play that would be alright with me and the same applies here.

you need my condemnation like you need a condemnation from all hundreds of members here on net54 but I don't see hundreds of demands or invitations for EVERYBODY to do so. Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the community party? McCarthy witch hunt! I got boxing to do, I don't need this straw man argument.

If I don't then I am guilty, if I do, then you claim the guilty has confessed. Have you heard of innocence? It's a railroad and a few are at the controls with their hands held tight to a dead mans switch so others get the impact no matter what. play amongst yourselves in your little witch hunt. We don't know who writes it. Insinuating that I know and have a special need to condemn it is very low indeed.

[packs]

Come on man you are paralleling some of the most controversial moments in history with whether or not you condemn a gross personal attack on an autograph blog. Also that attack isn't even limited to one individual, it is insulting for the terminally ill, people with low incomes, the homeless, and the LGBT community.

[travrosty]

there is a trash site out there called Autograph magazine live and every once in a while some jerk will put up a sentence about me or someone, like they did one time. Isn't Travis a forger? When he did that, I did NOT ask the people who were affiliated with that site and blogged there to condemn it. Because I knew they didn't have anything to do with it.

I didn't email Chris Williams, Zipper, Fudd or anyone asking them to condemn that statement because they didn't owe me anything. so if they don't want to give me the same respect and consideration in return then they know where to go and how high to fly that kite.

Like I said, the old time friends from the boxing hobby that I knew 20 years ago, 15 years ago and 10 years ago know who I am , and if others do not, I am not concerned about it. I don't need Johnny come lately friends as the old time friends I got have been through the trenches with me and that's good enough for me.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I think my intentions didn't come through clearly. Yes, I'm angry about how this thread has gone: angry about that POS website. I wanted what I clearly posted: Travis to come out and bash that site. Then, yes, all of you would have the opportunity to apologize to him. But if he won't, well, silence is damning.

Just like I gave Chris the opportunity to clear up what he said. You'll notice he has posted multiple times, but has yet to answer EITHER of my posts. He, too, has made assertions that he has yet to back up.

Right now, I feel that BOTH members have lost credibility.

And as for TM, after I get home from work today, I'm going to call him and ask him directly if he's associated with that garbage site. Have you thought of doing the same??

Ken

Ken, I will try to explain it to you as simple as possible.

Over at the old ANL website, Mueller challenged anyone to find one forgery on his auction site.

Within 15 minutes, numerous forgeries, secretarials, etc. were discovered.

Mueller fervently defended all of them as authentic.

One of them was the below Willie Mays wife-signed signature.

93467

When Mueller was challenged on it, he (Mueller) posted the below comment:

93468


Ken, I have no reason to lie about this.

That's it in a nutshell, Ken.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Please note that the old ANL was taken down, and the new ANL is the new resurrected website.

[David Atkatz]

The way I read that reply--and remember, I'm no fan of Mueller--is that he obtained--in person--a signature of the same form as the one that is now being called a wife-signed proxy.
I don't think at all that he's claiming the particular signature he's offering was obtained in-person.

[thetruthisoutthere]

I have numerous others I can post here, but I won't.....for now.

[earlywynnfan]

The way I read that reply--and remember, I'm no fan of Mueller--is that he obtained--in person--a signature of the same form as the one that is now being called a wife-signed proxy.
I don't think at all that he's claiming the particular signature he's offering was obtained in-person.

Chris, I will try to respond to you as simple as possible:
Do you see what David said above? That's exactly what I said three pages ago.
Is that clear enough????

And for the record: Todd didn't sell the Mays auto, he pulled it. It's still in his possession.

Follow up question, perhaps if I ask it simply enough I'll get a more timely response: Have you ever talked directly to Todd about this or any other of his autos?

[thetruthisoutthere]

there is a trash site out there called Autograph magazine live and every once in a while some jerk will put up a sentence about me or someone, like they did one time. Isn't Travis a forger? When he did that, I did NOT ask the people who were affiliated with that site and blogged there to condemn it. Because I knew they didn't have anything to do with it.

I didn't email Chris Williams, Zipper, Fudd or anyone asking them to condemn that statement because they didn't owe me anything. so if they don't want to give me the same respect and consideration in return then they know where to go and how high to fly that kite.

Like I said, the old time friends from the boxing hobby that I knew 20 years ago, 15 years ago and 10 years ago know who I am , and if others do not, I am not concerned about it. I don't need Johnny come lately friends as the old time friends I got have been through the trenches with me and that's good enough for me.

Interesting that Travis calls Autograph Magazine Live a "trash site" but not one letter of condemnation at ANL for their "badge of honor" bestowed upon me.

From my view, it looks like Travis is not allowed to say or write anything derogatory about ANL.

If anyone on Autograph Live Magazine posted anything like that "badge of honor" directed at Travis, or anyone else here, I'd be the first to condemn them.

[earlywynnfan]

I have numerous others I can post here, but I won't.....for now.

YAY! More drama from the drama queen!

[earlywynnfan]

My one experience with Mueller was both good and bad. I bought a dual-signed first-day cover in one of his auctions, supposedly signed by both Boris Karloff and Dwight Frye. A few months later, a fellow horror collector showed me the page from an RR Auctions catalog from which the signatures--and inscriptions--were copied. I presented the material to Todd, and he issued a refund.

He than cut the signatures apart, and re-sold them.

Just curious, how long ago was this? And how did you know the R&R autos weren't the copies?

Did you ever talk to him about why he cut them up and sold them?

Ken

[thetruthisoutthere]

Chris, I will try to respond to you as simple as possible:
Do you see what David said above? That's exactly what I said three pages ago.
Is that clear enough????

And for the record: Todd didn't sell the Mays auto, he pulled it. It's still in his possession.

Follow up question, perhaps if I ask it simply enough I'll get a more timely response: Have you ever talked directly to Todd about this or any other of his autos?

You're right, Ken, that Mays might be in Mueller's possession.

If it is, it's because he was challenged on it and withdrew it.

And just because Mueller claims to have it in his possession, doesn't mean it is.

[David Atkatz]

Just curious, how long ago was this? And how did you know the R&R autos weren't the copies?

Did you ever talk to him about why he cut them up and sold them?

KenHere's the FDC:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/frye_karloff_cover_100_zpsa4f4dc89.jpg

And here's the catalog page:

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j245/datkatz/fryekarlff_rr_zpsd3ca3080.jpg

Note that the Karloff is identical. The Frye is almost identical--there are two differences. On the cover the inscription is to Saul (on the RR piece it's to Sam), and the character name "Igor" has been added to the FDC. My interpretation is that in order to match the Karloff--mentioning his most famous character--the forger had Frye mention his character in the movie. Now, most people think of Dr. Frankenstein's hunchbacked assistant as "Igor," but in actuality, the character Frye played was called "Fritz." Frye would certainly have known that!

The kicker, though, is the date of cancellation on the FDC--Halloween, 1944. Frye died on November 7, 1943.

When I saw this piece in Mueller's auction catalog, I noticed the disparity in dates immediately. I called Mueller, and he told me a cock-and-bull story about the cover being signed well in advance of the cancellation date.

I fell for it, and ignored the "Igor" discrepancy as well. Why? It was the usual collector's malady. I wanted the piece to be real.

So, about a year later, after posting the cover on the net, I was contacted by a fellow horror collector who sent me the RR page. I presented this to Mueller. He assured me the cover was real, and told me he would refund my money, and cut the autographs apart (to obviate the postmark problem), and sell them.

A few years later, I noticed the Frye signature being offered on eBay. I contacted the seller, presented all the information, except where I had obtained the cover. I asked him where he got the autograph. Yep, that's right.

(He got his money back from Mueller, too.)

[earlywynnfan]

You're right, Ken, that Mays might be in Mueller's possession.

If it is, it's because he was challenged on it and withdrew it.

And just because Mueller claims to have it in his possession, doesn't mean it is.

And what makes you think he'd lie about that?

[thetruthisoutthere]

And what makes you think he'd lie about that?

When has he ever told the truth?

Like Fudd wrote previously "The guy has more stories than HG Wells."

You believe what you want to believe, Ken.

[earlywynnfan]

When has he ever told the truth?

Like Fudd wrote previously "The guy has more stories than HG Wells."

You believe what you want to believe, Ken.

I Believe I asked you a simple question.

[travrosty]

I don't play games and I am not playing this game.

[jgmp123]

.

[Fuddjcal]

Interesting that Travis calls Autograph Magazine Live a "trash site" but not one letter of condemnation at ANL for their "badge of honor" bestowed upon me.

From my view, it looks like Travis is not allowed to say or write anything derogatory about ANL.

If anyone on Autograph Live Magazine posted anything like that "badge of honor" directed at Travis, or anyone else here, I'd be the first to condemn them.

Me too...

[Fuddjcal]

you are being ridiculous, i have nothing to do with it, and asking me to condemn it by singling me out is what is sleazy, it implies i am somehow guilty. ask all hundreds of members of net54 then if everyone is equally innocent? by singling me out you are implying i have more to atone for than anyone else, when i have nothing to atone for.

arnold shwarzenegger is innocent and has nothing to atone for but to single him out and insist he specifically condemn nazism because his dad was an austrian police chief and a member of the nazi party is to brand arnold as somehow guilty of other peoples actions. It's sick, ridiculous and shameful and if arnold wanted to tell people where they could go with their sleazy guilt-by-association games that they play that would be alright with me and the same applies here.

you need my condemnation like you need a condemnation from all hundreds of members here on net54 but I don't see hundreds of demands or invitations for EVERYBODY to do so. Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the community party? McCarthy witch hunt! I got boxing to do, I don't need this straw man argument.

If I don't then I am guilty, if I do, then you claim the guilty has confessed. Have you heard of innocence? It's a railroad and a few are at the controls with their hands held tight to a dead mans switch so others get the impact no matter what. play amongst yourselves in your little witch hunt. We don't know who writes it. Insinuating that I know and have a special need to condemn it is very low indeed.

I wouldn't say your guilty of this, but you are a respected regular contributor here. I just figured (Despite all the different factions) that we are all in this together. I hold this board to a higher standard and you are apart of that. I guess your just not the man I thought you to be. It's not a witch hunt Travis it's a "CLUSTER F***"

[Fuddjcal]

Just curious, how long ago was this? And how did you know the R&R autos weren't the copies?

Did you ever talk to him about why he cut them up and sold them?

Ken

Ken,

He cut them up and sold them because he could. That shows the character of the individual. I'm sure he then prayed about it. That's how he does it.

[JT]

What is the point of this thread anymore?

[shelly]

What is the point of this thread anymore?

Where is our newest member. He has everyone talking for him but he has yet to show up and do exactly what was asked of Traves(the martyr). Why has Tood not come on here and defend what is being said.:confused:

[earlywynnfan]

Ken,

He cut them up and sold them because he could. That shows the character of the individual. I'm sure he then prayed about it. That's how he does it.

Did you actually talk to the man about this, or are you basing your opinions on what you read on the internets?

Ken

[earlywynnfan]

I wouldn't say your guilty of this, but you are a respected regular contributor here. I just figured (Despite all the different factions) that we are all in this together. I hold this board to a higher standard and you are apart of that. I guess your just not the man I thought you to be. It's not a witch hunt Travis it's a "CLUSTER F***"

Travis, I agree with most of this. I am not joining some kind of witch hunt or something in pointing my finger at you. You are an active member of this particular thread. Many of us feel there is a Net54 "family." Fight with Chris all you want. Fight with David. Fight with me. Fight with anyone. But you know what? That ANL post was absolute crap. That was out of bounds. That cheap shot was aimed at one of our FAMILY. And I don't care if it's your hot wife or your obnoxious-little-stepbrother-who-you-have-to-share-a-room-with-who-the-world-would-be-better-off-without. We should all stick together!

Ken

[thetruthisoutthere]

I agree, Ken.

The problem is that Travis is truly not allowed to say or write anything derogatory about ANL or Todd Mueller.

If anyone on this site, and or on Autograph Magazine Live, posted anything like that about Travis, I'd be the first one to condemn it.

But Travis is not allowed to. They (ANL and Todd Mueller) would ostracize him from that vile, slimy and cowardly community known as ANL.

[clutch]

You are all embarrassing yourselves.

[thetruthisoutthere]

You are all embarrassing yourselves.

If you're going to make a statement like that, then I want to know who Clutch is?

It's easy to post a comment like that behind a pseudonym like Clutch.

[jgmp123]

I'll make the same statement...You are all embarrassing yourselves. Fighting like a bunch of school girls. Seriously, take it off the board.

James Graham

[JT]

+1

[thetruthisoutthere]

If you don't like a particular thread, then don't read it.

Or, if you do read it, and don't like it, then don't post a comment.

It's that simple.

There are numerous threads that make me cringe. I may or may not read them, but I've never written anyone to stop it.

It really is that simple.

[jgmp123]

If you don't like a particular thread, then don't read it.

Or, if you do read it, and don't like it, then don't post a comment.

It's that simple.

There are numerous threads that make me cringe. I may or may not read them, but I've never written anyone to stop it.

It really is that simple.

Let me just not respond. I don't want to be dragged into this...

[thetruthisoutthere]

A day after the below article appeared on AML about a Elvis Presley secretarial that sold at Mueller Auctions (read the Roger Epperson comment)........

http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/secretarial-elvis-presley-signed-poster-sells-for-1-000-at

The below article appeared on that vile and slime site called ANL:

http://www.autographnewslive.com/


Coincidence again? Seriously?

ANL is a site that is consistently praised by Travis.

[mighty bombjack]

PLEASE stop posting links to that horrible site. It is a train wreck that we should look away from.

[johnmh71]

PLEASE stop posting links to that horrible site. It is a train wreck that we should look away from.

+1

[thetruthisoutthere]

PLEASE stop posting links to that horrible site. It is a train wreck that we should look away from.

I agree, but I wanted to make a point that every time someone exposes Mueller, the slime over at ANL starts a new smear campaign.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Ken asked Travis to comment on that ANL trash......

93844




Travis wrote "I have boxing autographs to blog about."


But Travis always has time for this:



93845

[earlywynnfan]

This is no defense of Travis, he can do his own talking (or, rarely, choose not to talk.)

However, Chris, since you're pointing fingers, Ken also said this:

"Have you ever talked directly to Todd about this or any other of his autos?"

In fact, this question was asked twice. Ken also (twice) asked you to clarify how you read that email as Todd saying the exact Mays auto that put your panties into a bunch was the one from the airport or whatever.

Your lack or responses say a lot, too.

[Big Dave]

+1.....

Also, I am in agreement with Travis in regard to his lack of response to allegations leveled at him by a few. As he stated, there are hundreds of viewers / members on this site and I haven't seen one other asked to condemn that site. There are many that don't respond to questions or allegations, Chris being one...even though he demands from others and rags them when they don't respond. Without any proof of any relationship between Travis and that site, it is his right and privilege to respond or not to anything he wants, as each of us do.

Whether Todd Mueller has any affiliation with that site has not been shown either. Until someone has something to back up the allegations made against another, everything written is just rantings made without any substance to back these up.

This garbage gets really old from all sides. This is supposed to be a forum to discuss the validity of autographs, not personalities.....

Everyone has opinions about everything, and unless there is something factual to back up these opinions....these remain what they are....views in one's mind.

[travrosty]

+1.....

Also, I am in agreement with Travis in regard to his lack of response to allegations leveled at him by a few. As he stated, there are hundreds of viewers / members on this site and I haven't seen one other asked to condemn that site. There are many that don't respond to questions or allegations, Chris being one...even though he demands from others and rags them when they don't respond. Without any proof of any relationship between Travis and that site, it is his right and privilege to respond or not to anything he wants, as each of us do.

Whether Todd Mueller has any affiliation with that site has not been shown either. Until someone has something to back up the allegations made against another, everything written is just rantings made without any substance to back these up.




This garbage gets really old from all sides. This is supposed to be a forum to discuss the validity of autographs, not personalities.....

Everyone has opinions about everything, and unless there is something factual to back up these opinions....these remain what they are....views in one's mind.



Thank you Big Dave,

I don't even know Dave but he is right on the mark. We as a country went through similar "we suspect you are guilty with no proof so prove your innocence and make a prepared statement that we will supply or else your name will be smeared and equal to mud, and if you are not willing to do so at our demand then you must have something to hide and our suspicions of guilt must have been right all along" in the 1950's and that is regarded as a very ugly period in our country's history.

It is truly disgusting and I would say more but I also agree with Dave that I believe we should comment on things related to the autograph hobby as that is what this site is for.

[Leon]

Thank you Big Dave,

I don't even know Dave but he is right on the mark. We as a country went through similar "we suspect you are guilty with no proof so prove your innocence and make a prepared statement that we will supply or else your name will be smeared and equal to mud, and if you are not willing to do so at our demand then you must have something to hide and our suspicions of guilt must have been right all along" in the 1950's and that is regarded as a very ugly period in our country's history.

It is truly disgusting.

I agree witch hunts suck. But if I was asked a question pertaining to a smear site I would simply answer it and move on. I am not saying it would be mandatory for me to do it but I just wouldn't want people thinking I was either affiliated (if I wasn't) or dodging a question. Answering cures the issue. Not answering does raise more doubt. And that being said it's a two way street too. If I am asking the questions then I should be prepared to answer zingers back at me. Just my opinion and certainly there are other views on the subject. All I care about, where this board is concerned, is that folks have their names out here when debating, accusing etc.... And I must applaud you guys for that. There hasn't been any push back about that aspect.

[Mr. Zipper]

if I was asked a question pertaining to a smear site I would simply answer it and move on.

What has been lost in the haze is that Travis is solely responsible for opening this whole can of worms when he began singing the praises of "Da Man." When the questions got uncomfortable, suddenly he goes silent or plays the martyr card and doesn't want to "play that game" anymore.

[travrosty]

I blog about boxing autographs and autograph hobby related issues regarding authentication. some dont like what i say because they like the current paradigm of "look the other way if it has a certain favorite cert attached to it"

i help expose the AUTOGRAPH HOBBY RELATED stories others don't want to touch or hope goes away. The other stuff regarding people's personal issues is just noise and should be taken elsewhere.

[mighty bombjack]

I blog about boxing autographs and autograph hobby related issues regarding authentication. some dont like what i say because they like the current paradigm of "look the other way if it has a certain favorite cert attached to it"

i help expose the AUTOGRAPH HOBBY RELATED stories others don't want to touch or hope goes away. The other stuff regarding people's personal issues is just noise and should be taken elsewhere.

Ok then, back to autographs and the hobby.

From what I have seen, Mueller (the same that you have praised) is a poor authenticator of baseball autographs. Now, he may be an upstanding dealer in giving refunds when a question arises, but I wouldn't buy anything from him based on what I've seen him selling.

How's that?

[mighty bombjack]

Thank you Big Dave,

I don't even know Dave but he is right on the mark. We as a country went through similar "we suspect you are guilty with no proof so prove your innocence and make a prepared statement that we will supply or else your name will be smeared and equal to mud, and if you are not willing to do so at our demand then you must have something to hide and our suspicions of guilt must have been right all along" in the 1950's and that is regarded as a very ugly period in our country's history.

It is truly disgusting and I would say more but I also agree with Dave that I believe we should comment on things related to the autograph hobby as that is what this site is for.
Travis-

What are doing in the Blarney Ruth thread? You have laid some pretty heavy claims about the actions of the alphabets, based solely on conjecture, and then said straight up that you will admit that you are wrong if they provide evidence to the contrary. So, they are guilty of your claims until they prove themselves otherwise? Well, we all know that no alphabet could ever be innocent of any act in your eyes.

You get what you give.

[Deertick]

"(PSA)we (I) suspect you are guilty with no proof so prove your innocence and make a prepared statement that we (I) will supply or else your name will be smeared and equal to mud, and if you are not willing to do so at our (my) demand then you must have something to hide and our (my) suspicions of guilt must have been right all along" .

Oh... My.... GAWD!

This pot may not be black, but it is definitely cracked.

[thetruthisoutthere]

What has been lost in the haze is that Travis is solely responsible for opening this whole can of worms when he began singing the praises of "Da Man." When the questions got uncomfortable, suddenly he goes silent or plays the martyr card and doesn't want to "play that game" anymore.

Thank you, Mr. Zipper.

Steve gets it.

This can of worms would have never been opened up if Travis didn't sing the praises of the "Da Man."

[David Atkatz]

What has been lost in the haze is that Travis is solely responsible for opening this whole can of worms when he began singing the praises of "Da Man."What? Are we only allowed to support members of some group of "pre-approved" dealers?

I have little respect for Mueller--I'm glad he refunded my money, but the fact that he cut up that FDC to avoid the "postmark problem" (whichcalls into doubt the autograph's authenticity even without seeing the RR listings), is despicable.

Still, Travis--or anyone else--has the right to support anyone he or she chooses, without the fear of "opening up a can of worms."

[Mr. Zipper]

What? Are we only allowed to support members of some group of "pre-approved" dealers?

....-has the right to support anyone he or she chooses, without the fear of "opening up a can of worms."

Of course he can support whomever he wants. Who said he couldn't?

But in doing so, he is inviting contrary opinions. Some of which may be less than flattering.

What's not to get? :confused:

[Big Dave]

After 125 posts, I believe we all get it...regardless of what we individually think.

How about we all just quit beating this dead horse, it is not coming back to life or changing anyone's mind?

[shelly]

I cant understand why anyone including Travis would not just say that the site is a hate site. No more no less. If anyone of you had your name placed on that site and I mean anyone. I would go after them just as much as I did for Chris. It is a hate site nothing more nothing less. It should be condemed by everyone that comes on this site pure and simple. That is why people are upset with Travis.:mad:

[mighty bombjack]

I cant understand why anyone includeing Travis would not just say that the site is a hate site. No more no less.:confused

Right, but if we don't join in bashing certain companies, we are clearly afraid of retaliation and/or in love with the status quo!

I don't mind being told that my silence condemns me. It is the unabashed hypocrisy that I feel I have to point out.

Big Dave-I hear you, but dead horses are what message boards exist to beat. At least the season is starting soon!

[Big Dave]

Ok.....guess some would rather beat a dead horse then move on.

Nobody has to condemn or say anything... and to try and force or shame someone into doing what others may or say they should...is bs.

We all think different....just let it be.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Ok.....guess some would rather beat a dead horse then move on.

Nobody has to condemn or say anything... and to try and force or shame someone into doing what others may or say they should...is bs.

We all think different....just let it be.

If anyone wants to continue this thread, they have every right to.

You don't have to read it or comment under it, Dave.

Your "just let it be" comment.....is BS.

[shelly]

Just out of curosity Big Dave what did you think of that site.? You dont have to say anything but just wondered.

[Big Dave]

Well Chris and Shelly ....carry on and enjoy the hypocrisy of your self-righteous posts.

[shelly]

Wow, because you where wrong on a Mantle. I asked a question not a sermon. Do you not find that site to be a hate site? Why will you not give an honest reply.:confused:

[Forever Young]

Right, but if we don't join in bashing certain companies, we are clearly afraid of retaliation and/or in love with the status quo!

I don't mind being told that my silence condemns me. It is the unabashed hypocrisy that I feel I have to point out.

Big Dave-I hear you, but dead horses are what message boards exist to beat. At least the season is starting soon!

Well said.

[shelly]

Now, Travis. Do you belive that the site that went after Chris is garbage or not.
Yes or no.
If anyone finds that question to be offensive please explain.
I would also ask the same question to all of you.:D

[Forever Young]

Right, but if we don't join in bashing certain companies, we are clearly afraid of retaliation and/or in love with the status quo!

I don't mind being told that my silence condemns me. It is the unabashed hypocrisy that I feel I have to point out.

Big Dave-I hear you, but dead horses are what message boards exist to beat. At least the season is starting soon!

Well said. There is nothing worse than a hypocrite.
I must say though, this site(link posted) is BS(HATE SITE).
I actually respect Chris' work a lot. His work isn't an attempt to enhance an authenticating career, sell merchandise, settle old scores or right old "mistakes". There are many obvious agendas on here but I believe Chris' to be a just one. I read what was written on that site and agree, it is pretty stupid.

[slidekellyslide]

Well...I just waded through this entire thread reading all the links associated with it and I'm sorry to say Travis, but your lack of condemnation for that article leaves me with only one impression and it isn't favorable to you. I've never noticed you being too busy boxing or writing boxing blogs to comment on JSA/PSA or any of your other favorite targets in the auto hobby...just say it, you condemn that POS garbage written about Chris. That kind of stuff has no place anywhere let alone a hobby that is supposed to be enjoyable.

I know...I know you don't care what I think because I haven't been in the trenches with you for 20 years. Just so you know everything you post from here on out will be viewed by me as just an agenda...again, I know you don't care. :rolleyes:

[thetruthisoutthere]

you are being ridiculous, i have nothing to do with it, and asking me to condemn it by singling me out is what is sleazy, it implies i am somehow guilty. ask all hundreds of members of net54 then if everyone is equally innocent? by singling me out you are implying i have more to atone for than anyone else, when i have nothing to atone for.

arnold shwarzenegger is innocent and has nothing to atone for but to single him out and insist he specifically condemn nazism because his dad was an austrian police chief and a member of the nazi party is to brand arnold as somehow guilty of other peoples actions. It's sick, ridiculous and shameful and if arnold wanted to tell people where they could go with their sleazy guilt-by-association games that they play that would be alright with me and the same applies here.

you need my condemnation like you need a condemnation from all hundreds of members here on net54 but I don't see hundreds of demands or invitations for EVERYBODY to do so. Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the community party? McCarthy witch hunt! I got boxing to do, I don't need this straw man argument.

If I don't then I am guilty, if I do, then you claim the guilty has confessed. Have you heard of innocence? It's a railroad and a few are at the controls with their hands held tight to a dead mans switch so others get the impact no matter what. play amongst yourselves in your little witch hunt. We don't know who writes it. Insinuating that I know and have a special need to condemn it is very low indeed.

Travis, there were two reasons why we posted the link to that "badge of honor."

One, of course, was to show the slime and cowards over at ANL that I will never back off.

The second reason was to hopefully get a condemnation from you. You're a strong supporter of that site and was hoping that you would write "they went too far."

And remember, Travis, this has nothing to do with autograph opinions. This was a vile and cowardly personal attack. And it always happens when anyone criticizes Todd "Da Man" Mueller.

Yes, Travis, I singled you out to condemn that attack. I really thought you would be outraged by it. I singled you out because you are a strong supporter of ANL. It was my opinion (I made a bet with a fellow member here) that you were going to criticize that personal attack. I lost the bet.

You wrote the excuse "that you're busy blogging about boxing autographs." Then five minutes later "you find the time" to criticize the TPAs.

The truth is, Travis, you are not allowed to say or write anything critical about ANL. That's a fact.

[chaddurbin]

i don't know if travis writes blogs for that site, if yes at the very least why would anyone want to contribute to a site that would tolerate that kind of crap writing? i would try to disassociate my name from something like that asap.

some here have a problem with what chris or travis do, i don't. they have their agendas, they stick to it come hell or high-water. i respect that position, but for travis to cast a blind eye to the garbage written over there is disappointing...if he's indeed a member as i didn't want to wade through that site to find out.

[Fuddjcal]

I cant understand why anyone including Travis would not just say that the site is a hate site. No more no less. If anyone of you had your name placed on that site and I mean anyone. I would go after them just as much as I did for Chris. It is a hate site nothing more nothing less. It should be condemed by everyone that comes on this site pure and simple. That is why people are upset with Travis.:mad:

right....like I said, I agree with 90% of what he has to say except when he starts with the 6 paragraph analogies. What he says is fine. It doesn't let go of the fact he has quite the personality disorder IMHO. and Mueller is still a boil on the ass of autograph collectors worldwide.

[travrosty]

Now, Travis. Do you belive that the site that went after Chris is garbage or not.
Yes or no.
If anyone finds that question to be offensive please explain.
I would also ask the same question to all of you.:D



i do find it offensive because you are singling me out specifically to answer that claim, insinuating i had something to do with it. why are you not similarly outraged that barry sloate has not come on here to denounce it?

i had nothing to do with it at all, like barry, so to hound me for an answer to your invented question when you do not require that of others who are just as unconnected with the topic at hand as i am smacks of a witch hunt. i decry such actions as discriminatory and pathetic .

[shelly]

Travis, I value your opinion. Is there something wrong with that?

[thetruthisoutthere]

i do find it offensive because you are singling me out specifically to answer that claim, insinuating i had something to do with it. why are you not similarly outraged that barry sloate has not come on here to denounce it?

i had nothing to do with it at all, like barry, so to hound me for an answer to your invented question when you do not require that of others who are just as unconnected with the topic at hand as i am smacks of a witch hunt. i decry such actions as discriminatory and pathetic .

Travis, I am the one singling you out, not Shelly.

You're the one who is a staunch supporter of both ANL and Todd Mueller.

[barrysloate]

i do find it offensive because you are singling me out specifically to answer that claim, insinuating i had something to do with it. why are you not similarly outraged that barry sloate has not come on here to denounce it?

i had nothing to do with it at all, like barry, so to hound me for an answer to your invented question when you do not require that of others who are just as unconnected with the topic at hand as i am smacks of a witch hunt. i decry such actions as discriminatory and pathetic .

How did I get dragged into this garbage? I would never post in the thread like this (other than now) and just noticed it for the first time today.

[travrosty]

How did I get dragged into this garbage? I would never post in the thread like this (other than now) and just noticed it for the first time today.

thats why i say, how did I get dragged into it too? Barry, they evidently are requiring us ALL to take some sort of loyalty oath! who knew?

Barry, sorry for mentioning your name, I proved my point, Barry doesn't appreciate it , nor I.

Sorry Barry, I won't mention you here again.

[travrosty]

Travis, I am the one singling you out, not Shelly.

You're the one who is a staunch supporter of both ANL and Todd Mueller.

you both are, as is zipper, and its guilt by association now?

Todd Mueller is my friend, so what?

[earlywynnfan]

How did I get dragged into this garbage? I would never post in the thread like this (other than now) and just noticed it for the first time today.

Attn: Travis:
1 post, and Barry's done.

You: dozens of posts, in this very thread, thousands of words of righteous indignation, and you couldn't do what Barry did in two sentences.

[barrysloate]

Succinct.:)

[slidekellyslide]

thats why i say, how did I get dragged into it too? Barry, they evidently are requiring us ALL to take some sort of loyalty oath! who knew?

Barry, sorry for mentioning your name, I proved my point, Barry doesn't appreciate it , nor I.

Sorry Barry, I won't mention you here again.

Because apparently you openly support a site that would write the garbage that was linked to earlier in this thread....garbage that is written anonymously by a coward.

[Deertick]

Now, Travis. Do you belive that the site that went after Chris is garbage or not.
Yes or no.
If anyone finds that question to be offensive please explain.
I would also ask the same question to all of you.:D

Shelly, ask me the question.

[shelly]

Shelly, ask me the question.

Ok what do you think of that site.?

[Deertick]

I think it a despicable, cowardly, useless hack site with no redeeming value. It is no better than the writing on a stall in a heavily used bus terminal restroom.

Hmm, that wasn't as difficult as I was led to believe....

[shelly]

That was painless:D

[Fuddjcal]

i don't know if travis writes blogs for that site, if yes at the very least why would anyone want to contribute to a site that would tolerate that kind of crap writing? i would try to disassociate my name from something like that asap.

some here have a problem with what chris or travis do, i don't. they have their agendas, they stick to it come hell or high-water. i respect that position, but for travis to cast a blind eye to the garbage written over there is disappointing...if he's indeed a member as i didn't want to wade through that site to find out.

that's really the bottom line. Just when you think Travis might be doing something constructive, his association and with that site and overall character has been shown time and time again that he is just a very pathetic little man.

[travrosty]

that's really the bottom line. Just when you think Travis might be doing something constructive, his association and with that site and overall character has been shown time and time again that he is just a very pathetic little man.



how do i contribute to that site? show me my name as a contributor. how am i associated with it in any way? that was my whole point from the beginning, i dont have anything to do with that site so why bring up forced loyalty oaths on random people who don't have anything to do with it?

[slidekellyslide]

how do i contribute to that site? show me my name as a contributor. how am i associated with it in any way? that was my whole point from the beginning, i dont have anything to do with that site so why bring up forced loyalty oaths on random people who don't have anything to do with it?

How can anyone know who is associated with that cowardly site when nobody puts their name on anything? Your refusal to denounce the site is telling.

Yes, I know, I'm worse than Joe McCarthy...almost as bad as Hitler.

[thecatspajamas]

Yes, I know, I'm worse than Joe McCarthy...almost as bad as Hitler.

"How did I get dragged into this garbage?"
http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll13/thecatspajamas99/L-/23/McCarthy.jpg