View Full Version : W515-1 Strip Card Printing Plate?
glchen
03-13-2013, 03:49 PM
I recently saw this 1923 W515-1 Strip Card printing plate for sale. I've added pictures (sorry they are so large), and the seller's description of the item is as follows:
"Most strip cards, tobacco cards and similar baseball related items from this era were printed using a stone lithography process. Essentially, the paint would be applied to the "stones" and the paper (or cardboard) would be pressed against the surface. The stone were lightly etched to apply certain colors in certain places. This is one of those stones. It is an absolutely magnificent item and I assure you that it won't come around again. It feature three hall of fame players (from left to right): Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth and Dave Bancroft. The stone measures 1 3/4" x 3 3/4" - the correct size for the card."
I believe the seller is a noted board member on this site, so he may have some comments also. However, my question is, is this really how strip cards were printed? This looks like a set of 3, but I thought these were in longer strips? Were these attached to machines or something? Are these lithographs, so were other cards like T206's also printed similarly?
I don't think it's for the original cards. The length of it isn't a big deal to me, as it could have been cut down or the entire 'printing plate' could have been made of movable pieces. Newspaper printing plates were often made from multiple parts.
It is in the form of some old time printing plates, some which had the metal front on a wooden back.
I'm not saying I think it's a forgery, nor am I saying it's not vintage. Perhaps it was used to print a period ad or sign for the cards. That would be a valuable item too. It seems highly implausible that someone would forge this, considering the time, effort, expertise and cost required.
Just my opinion.
Clutch-Hitter
03-13-2013, 06:34 PM
Cobb should not be to the left of Ruth, or the right for that matter...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1923-W515-1-Uncut-9-x-5-1-2-card-sheet-Includes-Babe-Ruth-Good-Condition-/280648635175?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item4157f65327
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1923-W515-1-Baseball-Uncut-Strip-10-With-Babe-Ruth-/120874804302?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item1c24b3244e
Where's that for sale?
I don't know much about the issue, including if it was ever reprinted. But, as I said, it's very plausible it was used for period advertising, like for a newspaper or magazine ad or perhaps an ad poster. T206s, Sporting Lifes, Old Judges and others issues have appeared in period ads. And, as I also said, the printing block is an vintage style.
glchen
03-13-2013, 09:58 PM
Cobb should not be to the left of Ruth, or the right for that matter...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1923-W515-1-Uncut-9-x-5-1-2-card-sheet-Includes-Babe-Ruth-Good-Condition-/280648635175?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item4157f65327
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1923-W515-1-Baseball-Uncut-Strip-10-With-Babe-Ruth-/120874804302?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item1c24b3244e
Where's that for sale?
Ebay listing is here: Link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1923-W515-1-Strip-BABE-RUTH-TY-COBB-ORIGINAL-PRINTING-PRESS-PLATE-/290875832849)
Cool piece, I'd be interested in what Steve B. thinks about it...
Gobucsmagic74
04-04-2016, 04:29 PM
This plate was purchased yesterday by a friend of mine and I'm trying to show him evidence I have that would make it impossible to be an original w515 printing plate. The two factors are that existing full strips seem to establish that the set was printed in chronological order and therefore on the plate, Bancroft (card #4 should be to the left of the Ruth (card #3) since the plate is reversed, and the Cobb (card #10) would not appear adjacent to either of these cards and would actually be the 10th card on a 10 card strip. He is being told that the plate has been in the family and was handed down by a great uncle who supposedly worked in the factory that produced the W515's. My advice to my buddy was to share this evidence and cancel the deal, but he seems to really want this to be real despite proof that it really can't be an original plate used to produce W515's as we know them. Could someone please chime in on this, I'm referring my buddy to this site for additional input so please share freely.
The first picture illustrates evidence that full strips included 10 subjects. Picture two illustrates that the printing was done chronologically (subjects 31-40) in the strip shown. Picture three also illustrates chronology and that the Bancroft (card #4) comes after Ruth (card #3), which makes the plate in question incorrect without even mentioning Cobb who shouldn't be adjacent to either Ruth or Bancroft. This could be a lot of things, but it cannot be an original W515 printing plate used to produce W515 Strip cards as we know them.
Cozumeleno
04-04-2016, 04:51 PM
Shouldn't there be vertical dashed lines on it, too, in between the cards to indicate the cut line? Perhaps it wouldn't show up in the scans, but the seller took close ups that allow you to see it reasonably well. Using the eBay magnifying function, I can't even make out a trace of them.
Gobucsmagic74
04-04-2016, 05:11 PM
Shouldn't there be vertical dashed lines on it, too, in between the cards to indicate the cut line? Perhaps it wouldn't show up in the scans, but the seller took close ups that allow you to see it reasonably well. Using the eBay magnifying function, I can't even make out a trace of them.
I thought the same thing but gave the benefit of the doubt to the seller. I don't see any indication of them on the plates after additional scrutiny though.
bnorth
04-04-2016, 05:22 PM
The spacing between the cards look off also. Plus the cards are in the wrong spot making it IMPOSSIBLE to be what it is described as. Your friend needs to return it immediately if not sooner.
steve B
04-04-2016, 05:29 PM
The easy bit is that it is a printing plate.
That's where "easy" ends.
It is definitely NOT the sort of plate used for lithography.
The stones used were/are solid limestone and usually fairly thick, 2-4 inches.
Lithography plates are typically aluminum, with a coating on one side.
By 1923 stones for commercial lithography were less common.
What this is - Is a plate from one of the forms of typography. The suggestion that it's from either a newspaper ad of some kind or perhaps a book is a good one.
It's still a pretty cool piece, making them wasn't always cheap, which is why some old publications bragged about how many photographs either color or otherwise were included.
A bit of work should actually let the owner produce a print, maybe not a great print since the halftone screening is a pit rough, but a print.
I have a couple from one of the postcard sets, I've never printed from them, but it's possible.
Steve B
http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2432http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=2431