View Full Version : Our friend the crease.
atx840
03-12-2013, 03:31 PM
I recently came across this O'Hara as a MakeAnOffer and and it's been stuck in my mind how badly that crease killed the value on a gorgeous card.
http://i.imgur.com/AldXZJB.jpg
I'd love to see your examples of cards you could not have afforded without that grade killing crease/pl/rip
docpatlv
03-12-2013, 03:52 PM
Chris,
I know it's a Polar Bear, but I think the tobacco stains bother me more from an esthetic standpoint. The crease that doesn't break the paper is fine by me and the one that does break paper isn't too bad.
ullmandds
03-12-2013, 03:55 PM
this crease is much much worse to me!!!!
It's not a crease but a tiny paper pull, and this card was just shown, but I think it would have been 3-4 grades higher without that little pull on his sleeve. What a shame...
http://luckeycards.com/pe94crawfordorange.jpg
docpatlv
03-12-2013, 03:59 PM
this crease is much much worse to me!!!!
Put some whiskers on the side and you have yourself a catfish!
ullmandds
03-12-2013, 04:15 PM
that crawford is a crying shame!!!!! great card though!!!!!
oldjudge
03-12-2013, 04:29 PM
Instead of having an innie or outie belly button, she has a " it would take a bloody Welsh miner to find itie".
conor912
03-12-2013, 04:42 PM
Chris,
I know it's a Polar Bear, but I think the tobacco stains bother me more from an esthetic standpoint. The crease that doesn't break the paper is fine by me and the one that does break paper isn't too bad.
I agree. The creases kills it way less for me than the 100 brown dots all over it do.....
atx840
03-12-2013, 04:52 PM
If there wasn't the crease I'd think this would be a 30-50k card. Thoughts.
SetBuilder
03-12-2013, 04:54 PM
Can those tobacco stains soak off?
christopher.herman
03-12-2013, 04:59 PM
Recently picked this one up from a fellow member.
The spider creases are virtually invisible... even with a loupe.
SetBuilder
03-12-2013, 05:13 PM
Look at this McIntyre. Sharp corners, no paper loss, staining, etc. The only negative is a tiny hairline crease along the side, less than an inch, and only visible if you really look for it. I'm wondering why PSA didn't give the card a few +1's for having perfect centering and corners and instead gave it a lowly 2?! I've seen some really bad looking 2's.
packs
03-12-2013, 05:22 PM
I've shown this one before but its still a heart breaker:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/madjams/Gehrigfront.jpg http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/madjams/Gehrigback.jpg
cfc1909
03-12-2013, 05:26 PM
I can deal with the crease, the rounded corners, the off center and even a slight trim but I can not deal with paper loss, especially on the back because you know it's all about the back.
a crease really isn't that bad
http://photos.imageevent.com/cfc1909cards/t206/websize/YoungHindu.JPG
sorry for the poor pic
I Only Smoke 4 the Cards
03-12-2013, 06:34 PM
Look at this McIntyre. Sharp corners, no paper loss, staining, etc. The only negative is a tiny hairline crease along the side, less than an inch, and only visible if you really look for it. I'm wondering why PSA didn't give the card a few +1's for having perfect centering and corners and instead gave it a lowly 2?! I've seen some really bad looking 2's.
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i178/stylumceo/McIntyre_zps150b50be.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i178/stylumceo/MCintyre2_zpsef51891f.jpg
I would be resubmiting that card.
Republicaninmass
03-12-2013, 07:04 PM
Just picked this up from Craig, me thinks a regrade is in order. Vertical crease, no other issues! "Overall eye appeal" shuold garner a higher PSA grade. Unfortunately it is 60$ to find out!
http://caimages.collectors.com/psaimages/1114/19280014/img867.jpg
ullmandds
03-12-2013, 08:29 PM
30-50k card? Eek gads?!
atx840
03-12-2013, 08:40 PM
What would it likely grade without the crease, 6/7?
PSA 5 sold in REA for 22k
Link (http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/auction/2010/253.html)
ullmandds
03-12-2013, 08:47 PM
So you really mean creases? If all the creases were gone then i may agree?
aquarius31
03-12-2013, 09:13 PM
Just picked this up from Craig, me thinks a regrade is in order. Vertical crease, no other issues! "Overall eye appeal" shuold garner a higher PSA grade. Unfortunately it is 60$ to find out!
http://caimages.collectors.com/psaimages/1114/19280014/img867.jpg
If you're open to using SGC, I think this month's special is oversized cards for $30. I thought it included T3's but could be wrong.
atx840
03-12-2013, 09:41 PM
Yes the creases, of course lots of cards would be significantly higher but this went for under 2k...shame.
It's not a crease but a tiny paper pull, and this card was just shown, but I think it would have been 3-4 grades higher without that little pull on his sleeve. What a shame...
http://luckeycards.com/pe94crawfordorange.jpg
Those are the type of cards I really love, gems with little flaws encased in slabs. With my budget, that's the only way for me to acquire really good looking cardboard.
The Gehrig was auctioned off as having a minor surface wrinkle on the back, but I have yet to find it. The Speaker has a few minor wrinkles on the front, and SGC called it a fourty-five, whatever that means...
http://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/cw2112/top-20-cards/3754/1934-goudey-lou-gehrig-61
http://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/cw2112/top-20-cards/8520/1911-t3-turkey-red-tris-speaker
I recently came across this O'Hara as a MakeAnOffer and and it's been stuck in my mind how badly that crease killed the value on a gorgeous card.
http://i.imgur.com/AldXZJB.jpg
I'd love to see your examples of cards you could not have afforded without that grade killing crease/pl/rip
Chris, I'm not going to post it again, but I'm sure the cost of my Plank would have nearly doubled without the creases.:p
wonkaticket
03-13-2013, 12:52 AM
Ahhh the wrinkle the scourge of 30 something women and card collectors….add in a dinged corner or the microscopic spot of paper loss and alas you have the perfect recipe for bumsville. :)
http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/net54shared/giant/wrinkle.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/net54shared/large/9ohara%201.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/piojohn3/net54shared/large/lenox.jpg
DerekMichael
03-13-2013, 01:17 AM
Oh My Lord. This card looks perfect ... to Hell with the grade!
It's not a crease but a tiny paper pull, and this card was just shown, but I think it would have been 3-4 grades higher without that little pull on his sleeve. What a shame...
http://luckeycards.com/pe94crawfordorange.jpg
mrvster
03-13-2013, 05:53 AM
but I don't mind so much on any scrap;)
RGold
03-13-2013, 06:26 AM
John, once again, great, great cards.
My only card with a crease(that I know about). :D:D:D.
http://photos.imageevent.com/rgold/rgoldcollectiontycobbredbackground/cobb40.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/rgold/rgoldcollectiontycobbredbackground/cobb40b.jpg
T206Collector
03-13-2013, 07:31 AM
The Wheat is a barely discernible wrinkle; the Wagner is some light reverse paper loss as a result of scrapbook removal; the Clarke is two pin holes -- one of which 'ole Fred signed over...
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/N3p_7e6yBOP4PTNtSjQqDTiJm_Z5QsNdec5_I7WHZRE?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hyWgCvwrVkk/TlGEyBCy0EI/AAAAAAAAJXY/xGdpZZvb51g/s800/Wheat_SGC_40.jpg" height="800" width="488" /></a>
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/j2HRLgDFYm9O7z07xlmNxZzPtoWrr2b6ZRPlCb-2ZyE?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-NXV_6P0J37A/UC2XetcjbZI/AAAAAAAALdM/TwyLFx38Kuc/s800/Wagner_E92_Dockman_SGC_40.jpg" height="800" width="487" /></a>
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/WRCNumZyX2sXQqKm-CMzfJzPtoWrr2b6ZRPlCb-2ZyE?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-I_-bpLiuCp8/UC2XnxCP8YI/AAAAAAAALdc/2ybG2a6j6-M/s800/Wagner_E92_Dockman_SGC_40_Back.jpg" height="800" width="498" /></a>
<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9JThsZG2x8u9YDxbx6mrFDiJm_Z5QsNdec5_I7WHZRE?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iQ_phCjfIIU/S7FELuCjRqI/AAAAAAAAJ6Y/xE6ymo7l4wM/s800/Clarke%2520Batting%2520Auto%2520SGC%252010.jpg" height="800" width="499" /></a>
I Only Smoke 4 the Cards
03-13-2013, 07:38 AM
Your Wagner looks like he is wearing lipstick. :D
scooter729
03-13-2013, 07:54 AM
Shown before, but I'll be damned if I can find a thing wrong with this one, upon multiple examinations! If there's a crease, it doesn't show up with the loupe I used!
T206Collector
03-13-2013, 08:00 AM
Your Wagner looks like he is wearing lipstick. :D
Before Gatorade, players used to fill up on Kool-Aid tropical punch...
John wonka, I am inspired every time I see your cards man.
wonkaticket
03-13-2013, 10:37 AM
Thanks for the kind words Eric.
tiger8mush
03-13-2013, 05:47 PM
Scott, thats a beauty! Is there an erased pencil mark or hint of paperloss on the back? I think even with a surface crease it'd grade at least a 3 ... very nice card!
Rob
:)
Shown before, but I'll be damned if I can find a thing wrong with this one, upon multiple examinations! If there's a crease, it doesn't show up with the loupe I used!
atx840
03-13-2013, 06:52 PM
Excellent cards everyone. Keep them coming.
t206hound
03-13-2013, 08:39 PM
When this came back a 60, I didn't believe it... and couldn't sell it for 60 prices. So I held it and sent it in again. Came back a 60. Don't know what I'm missing:
aquarius31
03-13-2013, 08:48 PM
Great thread!
wazoo
03-13-2013, 08:54 PM
When this came back a 60, I didn't believe it... and couldn't sell it for 60 prices. So I held it and sent it in again. Came back a 60. Don't know what I'm missing:
Erick, I'm no pro grader, but I think that card deserves at least a 6! It looks like a 7+ to be honest!
Erick. I don't get it either.:confused:
Texxxx
03-13-2013, 09:54 PM
Eric, I figure it might be the centering on the back. By there grading scale a 80 should have a 75/25 centering on front and allowed a 10% latitude on the back.
I would have given it a higher grade though.
Theo_450
03-13-2013, 11:24 PM
What do you mean by CREASE? ;)
yanksfan09
03-14-2013, 06:08 AM
When this came back a 60, I didn't believe it... and couldn't sell it for 60 prices. So I held it and sent it in again. Came back a 60. Don't know what I'm missing:
Did you send it back in the SGC holder or did you crack it out first? I always wondered if companies were influenced by that. If you send in an encased card, maybe they see what they already graded it and are reluctant to bump it much higher as it's a bit of an indictment on their previous work. I don't know.
Same for crossing to another company; if PSA sees a SGC card graded a 5 then would they want to grad it higher? Maybe they feel that will make them seem to have less stringent standards? I would hope that it should not have influence on graders whether or not a card is raw, but I can definitely see how it might. Even if it's on an unconscious level to the grader that day... When you send in a card raw, you're likely getting a fresh slate and a completely honest and unbiased review.
t206hound
03-14-2013, 06:26 AM
Did you send it back in the SGC holder or did you crack it out first? I always wondered if companies were influenced by that. If you send in an encased card, maybe they see what they already graded it and are reluctant to bump it much higher as it's a bit of an indictment on their previous work. I don't know.
I cracked it and submitted it raw... there's something there that I'm not seeing for it to get the same (relatively low) grade twice.
teetwoohsix
03-14-2013, 07:44 AM
I cracked it and submitted it raw... there's something there that I'm not seeing for it to get the same (relatively low) grade twice.
It surely looks better than the grade given (both times).
I would like this card alot better if it didn't have the forehead crease:
Sincerely, Clayton
leaflover
03-14-2013, 08:41 AM
As a collector, cards that are graded PSA 2, because of a light crease or paper loss, are IMO "best buys". They present well and are affordable. Cards with "qualifiers" are also affordable AND "collector freindly". If it wasn't for the (ST) on the attached Herzog I would not have been able to add it to my collection. This Herzog might just be the nicest in the hobby. The lone "straight 8" that PSA has graded is 70/30 L to R.
The funny thing about that Herzog is that it's not even that badly stained, especially for a 1914!
Jerry G
03-14-2013, 10:19 AM
Purchased in 1973 from a mimeographed auction sheet from James T. Elder. It would be a long time before the scanner would be invented. James T. never wasted a lot of time describing the condition of cards, but I'm still very happy with it.
Winning bid: $25.
atx840
03-14-2013, 10:27 AM
Purchased in 1973 from a mimeographed auction sheet from James T. Elder.
I'm still very happy with it.
Winning bid: $25.
Great looking card and an excellent example of why a crease can be our friend :D