PSA Copyright question

[smotan_02]

Hi all-
Are there issues with using images of encapsulated cards/tickets within a book? If I own the card/ticket and take the image, do I still need to get permission from PSA?

How do the auction houses do it?

Thank you

[drc]

There is fair journalistic use. If you're writing a newspaper or magazine article about a subject and picture an item, say your PSA graded Pete Rose card, as part of that subject, that is fair use and you wouldn't need permission. Same can apply to a book.

[jrenaut]

I would be careful, however. If you ask permission and are denied, you're pretty much out of luck. If you don't ask and PSA decides to sue, you'll likely have to go to court even though drc is right and it's likely fair use. Since I've seen so many images of PSA slabs online and never heard of them filing a takedown claim, I would guess that you're in the clear. But I'm not a lawyer, and even if I was, I wouldn't tell you this as a lawyer.

Also good to know - the only thing covered by copyright on the front of the slab is the grade and possibly the id #. You can't copyright facts, but they will certainly argue (correctly, I think) that the grade is an opinion (a "creative work") and therefore covered. The id # I don't think qualifies, but I would not want to be the lawyer arguing that one.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

I think the most important question is why would PSA sue you for using images of their cards in a book? It is free publicity. Unless of course you are bashing their company.

[jrenaut]

I think the most important question is why would PSA sue you for using images of their cards in a book? It is free publicity. Unless of course you are bashing their company.
Because IP laws are ridiculous, and many companies feel they must restrict any usage without permission. In some cases, not protecting your IP when someone else uses it means you lose the right to do so in the future, though I don't think this is the case with copyright.

Or they may be upset at the prospect of someone making money using their IP without them getting a cut.

[pepis]

About 3 months ago i posted an auction on ebay of a pack graded and authenticated by psa, to have clear evidence of being resealed or altered and a few days later i got this notice from EBAY:



http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z415/pepis01/ScreenShot2012-12-11at124958PM_zps2488f03d.png

[bn2cardz]

About 3 months ago i posted an auction on ebay of a pack graded and authenticated by psa, to have clear evidence of being resealed or altered and a few days later i got this notice from EBAY:



http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/z415/pepis01/ScreenShot2012-12-11at124958PM_zps2488f03d.png

How could they invoke that it was a counterfeit product that violates their rights if it really was a PSA encapsulaton?

[jrenaut]

About 3 months ago i posted an auction on ebay of a pack graded and authenticated by psa, to have clear evidence of being resealed or altered...
PSA seems to be implying that the slab itself is a counterfeit, since they would hold no trademark over the pack of cards. I suppose it's possible that they were sending the takedown on behalf of Topps, but that seems unlikely, and probably illegal since the notice clearly states that PSA owns the trademark.

Regardless, it's probably a bogus takedown, but probably also more trouble than it's worth to fight.

[drc]

PSA removing a pack with a counterfeited label or objecting to someone selling homemade 'PSA/DNA' T-shirts for profit at The National without permission are different situations that someone writing an article reviewing recent auctions or new grading company products that have hit the market.

Counterfeiting a label can be deemed illegal even if the company doesn't object or even exist anymore.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Seems like they were requesting the removal because the slab was not genuine (ie. counterfeit).

[pepis]

Seems like they were requesting the removal because the slab was not genuine (ie. counterfeit).

they requested the removal in an attempt to cover-up the fact that many resealed packs like this one have been authenticated and slabed.

[smotan_02]

Thanks for the comments. Still curious if anyone out there with auction house catalogue has any experience or knowledge on the subject?

[DavidG1966]

Seems like they were requesting the removal because the slab was not genuine (ie. counterfeit).

Pepis has been accused of getting fake/resealed packs passed PSA. Pepis even admitted that he did in fact fool PSA. PSA turned him into the FBI. Perhaps these packs were on the list of suspected packs that got passed them. Were these packs on that list Jose?

Jose, these were packs submitted by you too right?

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1975+cello&_sop=10&_osacat=213&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313&_nkw=1975+mini+cello+%28brett%2Cyount%2Crose%29&_sacat=213

[drc]

As far as auction catalogs go, you can provide pictures of what you have for sale. As simple as that. Everyone on eBay provides scans of items they are selling, including PSA graded cards.

Auction catalogs and your book are far removed from this eBay/pack situation. This pack situation may be an interesting topic, but it is barely if at all related to your book copyright questions.

As a writer but not a lawyer, my lay guess is if your book is historical in content and you picture some historically relevant PSA graded cards, you will not get in trouble and PSA will not object.

One problem for me is I don't know what the book is about. I'm speculating about speculation.

[pepis]

Thanks for the comments. Still curious if anyone out there with auction house catalogue has any experience or knowledge on the subject?

Scotty
the copyrights belong to the cards manufacturers or the team that issued the ticket, psa is paid to render their opinion on authenticity and condition only.
The situation with the pack shows you what PSA may do if a situation not to their liking is made public. The pack is real, with topps copyright, but altered!
The only thing that is counterfeit is the opinion rendered by PSA! Instead of acknowledging they'll try intimidation.

[smotan_02]

As a writer but not a lawyer, my lay guess is if your book is historical in content and you picture some historically relevant PSA graded cards, you will not get in trouble and PSA will not object.

One problem for me is I don't know what the book is about. I'm speculating about speculation.

Hi David, thanks for the note back. Yeah- I really dont want this thread to devolve into pepis' packs. My intent is to write a book about the history of the Army-Navy game. Many of these books exist, but mine will be more of a coffee table book with a focus on memorabilia and items from the game. Here is an example of what to include:

<table style="width:auto;"><tr><td><a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/ESPHFB_MimIEku3hIP40WdMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-A3RNQS6mQZ4/UTB4b39ug7I/AAAAAAAAAGc/v-onZjRT_Xg/s800/1899.jpg" height="271" width="450" /></a></td></tr><tr><td style="font-family:arial,sans-serif; font-size:11px; text-align:right">From <a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/armyautin/March12013?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite">March 1, 2013</a></td></tr></table>