Opinion on Babe Ruth auto

[Westsiders]

Hey Guys,

I wanted to get some input on this Babe Ruth cut auto. The auto is coming from a very reputable company, and also comes with a full JSA LOA. But to my untrained eye, the "B" of Babe looks rather unique. Any thoughts?

Thanks.

[Scott Garner]

No way! :(

[travrosty]

could you please post the cert, only way to know if it really has a jsa cert is to see it ourselves.

[BigJJ]

No

[daves_resale_shop]

I don't like it

[MooseDog]

Not good.

[Westsiders]

Appreciate the responses. I don't have a copy of the JSA cert yet, but should fairly soon. This Ruth auto is a replacement for a previous Ruth auto card that there were issues with. Again, this is a very reputable card company and I have no doubt that the JSA cert is legit...but the auto itself looks a bit odd to me. Is it just the "B" that seems atypical, or is there more?

Again...appreciate all the help.

[Wymers Auction]

There is nothing good about that. I am not even an expert, but this one is kind of easy.

[Wymers Auction]

If this is the second bad Ruth than maybe they are not so legit. Just a thought.

[Scott Garner]

If this is the second bad Ruth than maybe they are not so legit. Just a thought.

+1

[Sean1125]

Appreciate the responses. I don't have a copy of the JSA cert yet, but should fairly soon. This Ruth auto is a replacement for a previous Ruth auto card that there were issues with. Again, this is a very reputable card company and I have no doubt that the JSA cert is legit...but the auto itself looks a bit odd to me. Is it just the "B" that seems atypical, or is there more?

Again...appreciate all the help.

Well... It's not like people go out and forge the JSA cert, they kind of forge the other item.

[GrayGhost]

No chance thats good

[khkco4bls]

Absolutely not!

[ATP]

Last summer I took in a Ruth ball with a JSA cert. The auto looked horrible upon first inspection, and I couldn't believe it was certed. The JSA cert was laminated, and as I looked at it, it just didn't feel right. I tore the lamination apart and sure enough the cert was fake. They even went as far as to laminate two pieces of paper together and place a thin one in between with a fake watermark on it. Cut out a fake little sticker for the front, etc. Of course they used the same cert number as a real Ruth ball so when you look it up online it matches. It would have fooled a majority of non experienced autograph collectors. I was sure to forward all of the evidence on to JSA so that they were aware that someone is faking there certs. I don't think the individual I was dealing with was the person who made it, I think he was duped by someone else.

[Westsiders]

Thanks for the responses. I have the card company listening to my concerns about this auto, but if there is someone in this forum experienced enough to describe what is suspicious about this auto...it would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise, the card company is going to rely on the JSA cert.

Thanks guys!

[packs]

You should probably ask them to verify the cert is real. Then I would point them to this thread and let them know the level of experienced collectors there are on this forum.

[Westsiders]

The JSA cert has been verified to be legitmate, but obviously, that doesn't mean that the auto is good. I've been told that there are some very experienced Ruth collectors in this forum, so I'm hoping someone can give me some specifics as to what's suspicious about this auto. Again, thanks for the help and any insight is greatly appreciated.

[travrosty]

can we see the jsa cert?

[Westsiders]

I don't have the cert...but the card company does. But again, this card company has been around for a long time and is very reputable, so I'm confident that JSA has certified this auto, but I'm not sure that the auto is legit.

For anyone that is well versed in Ruth auto's, please let me know what you think about this auto. If suspicious, please let me know what exactly you think is problematic with the auto.

Thanks Again!

[jgmp123]

Why are you so concerned with what's wrong with the autograph, but are being so secretive about everything...who is the card company? How much are they asking? What is cert #?

[thecatspajamas]

If it's a replacement for a previous card that there were issues with, why would you agree to accept it as a replacement without seeing the JSA cert. yourself? And again, if you yourself are questioning whether the signature is good, why would you agree to accept it as a replacement regardless of what certification it comes with? Just get your money back, and then shop around for one that is acceptable. Without knowing how much you're into this transaction for, you have to ask yourself, "If this was the first signature offered to me, would I have purchased it at that price?" If the answer is "no," (and judging by your misgivings, it is), then it's not an acceptable substitute.

As a seller, I have never been comfortable with the scenario of locking a buyer into accepting "store credit" for something they had to return. Just get the item back, give them their money back, and then let them decide whether to use that money to continue to do business with you.

[Westsiders]

They're not asking anything...it's a replacement card. The photo is of the Ruth auto that they are/were going to replace it with. I know there are a ton of experienced collectors in this forum, just hoping that someone can give me more than "don't like it" or "not good". I am new to collecting Ruth autos, and would like to know more.

Thanks.

[daves_resale_shop]

"The JSA cert has been verified to be legitmate"

If this is the case, then simply post the cert # and or cert itself...

net54 is clearly a community of experts in the field who are willing and able to lend a helping hand when necessary... The people who are members of this forum bring tremendous value and input to the hobby...Please, if you are asking for advice, be willing to divulge information as to where the autograph is coming from, what the cert # is & who certified it... If you are looking for input to protect yourself, you should be willing to share information to protect us all...

Although I am novice autograph collector I will say that I find many things wrong with this Ruth (most notably what you pointed out).

Please, do us all a favor... post the legitimate cert # and or the cert itself...

Kindest Regards & Happy Collecting!
Dave Jr.

[Westsiders]

Actually, a long story. I orginally purchased the first item from a 3rd party...not the card company. After I recieved the card, I saw I few things about the auto that I wasn't comfortable with. I did a TON of research, and was 100% convinced that the auto on the original card was not authentic. After presenting my case to the card company, they agreed to replace the original card. The photo in this link is what they're offering as the auto in the replacement card.

When I first saw the photo that they sent, I loved the appearance of the auto (big, bold, etc..). But after studying it, I felt that the "B" of Babe is atypical. I'm getting a lot of responses saying that there's "no way" this auto is real, but no one is willing to elaborate. I'm trying to present a case to the card company, as well as educate myself...so any further details would be appreciated.

[Westsiders]

Guys,

You're killling me...

If I had the JSA cert, I would post it. The card company said that it's JSA certified, and I have no reason to doubt it. The cert isn't going to provide any additional info other than to say that in JSA's "considered opinion", the auto is legit.

Trust me, the card company is tired of dealing with me, and they know that I'm going to research any auto they give to me as a replacement.

[travrosty]

Guys,

You're killling me...

If I had the JSA cert, I would post it. The card company said that it's JSA certified, and I have no reason to doubt it. The cert isn't going to provide any additional info other than to say that in JSA's "considered opinion", the auto is legit.

Trust me, the card company is tired of dealing with me, and they know that I'm going to research any auto they give to me as a replacement.



if you cant post a picture of the cert, then quit wasting everyone's time. it hasnt been verified as jsa certified if you havent seen the cert or cant show it to people. i am not a fan of jsa, but you have to be fair when calling it a jsa certified item. its always the autograph that is important, and the cert shouldn't matter when getting people's opinion of good vs. bad, but you can't say something is abc or xyz certified when you dont have proof. proof is a photo or copy of the LOA so we can SEE it! Why does this smell of a set up?

We've been in this hobby too long to have our time wasted.

it is a jsa certified if it has a jsa cert, if you dont have or cant get a picture of the jsa cert, then its not jsa certified. period. in this hobby, you trust but verify.

[jgmp123]

Who is the "card company"? If said card company is sick of dealing with you, the tell them to give you the cert # so you can verify yourself. If it is a full cert, there will be a picture of the auto on the JSA verification page when you type in the cert.

[daves_resale_shop]

[QUOTE=Westsiders;1092924]Actually, a long story. I orginally purchased the first item from a 3rd party...not the card company. After I recieved the card, I saw I few things about the auto that I wasn't comfortable with. I did a TON of research, and was 100% convinced that the auto on the original card was not authentic. After presenting my case to the card company, they agreed to replace the original card. The photo in this link is what they're offering as the auto in the replacement card.



I feel like this is becoming another insulting wagner thread (everyone please pardon me if I'm wrong)... The story is changing... why would a "card company" replace an autograph (with another) that was purchased from a
3rd party???

makes no sense...

Post the info requested or don't post at all

'Nuf Ced
-Dave Jr.

[Forever Young]

if you cant post a picture of the cert, then quit wasting everyone's time. it hasnt been verified as jsa certified if you havent seen the cert or cant show it to people. i am not a fan of jsa, but you have to be fair when calling it a jsa certified item. its always the autograph that is important, and the cert shouldn't matter when getting people's opinion of good vs. bad, but you can't say something is abc or xyz certified when you dont have proof. proof is a photo or copy of the LOA so we can SEE it! Why does this smell of a set up?

We've been in this hobby too long to have our time wasted.

it is a jsa certified if it has a jsa cert, if you dont have or cant get a picture of the jsa cert, then its not jsa certified. period. in this hobby, you trust but verify.

Agreed... I really really REALLY doubt JSA would EVER cert this auto. Prove it or stop posting it as JSA certed.

[Westsiders]

Set up???

Why? Who benefits? It a freaking chat room...

Here's why the card company has agreed to replace the item. They advertised the heck out of the Ruth auto card...as all companies do. Then someone bought a couple cases of the product, and opened a box containing the Ruth auto card. The card then hit the open market. I liked the card and knew that it came from a reputable company...so I bought it. After receiving the card and studying it, I became concerned with a few aspects of the auto (which was also JSA certified). I did a ton of research regarding my concerns, and presented the info to the card company. They beleived my concerns to be valid, so they offered to give me a replacement card. I told them that I would like to see that auto that would be in the card (prior to agreeing to it as a replacement). The photo in this link is the one that they sent.

I've told them that I have concerns with this auto, and was hoping for a little more info to strenthen my concerns...But no one in this forum is able and/or willing to provide me with any additional info.

Just trying to get a legit Babe Ruth auto card to give to my son.

[Westsiders]

if you cant post a picture of the cert, then quit wasting everyone's time. it hasnt been verified as jsa certified if you havent seen the cert or cant show it to people. i am not a fan of jsa, but you have to be fair when calling it a jsa certified item. its always the autograph that is important, and the cert shouldn't matter when getting people's opinion of good vs. bad, but you can't say something is abc or xyz certified when you dont have proof. proof is a photo or copy of the LOA so we can SEE it! Why does this smell of a set up?

We've been in this hobby too long to have our time wasted.

it is a jsa certified if it has a jsa cert, if you dont have or cant get a picture of the jsa cert, then its not jsa certified. period. in this hobby, you trust but verify.

Set up??? Really???

I'm a consumer trying to protect myself.

And you've "been in the hobby too long" to have your "time wasted".
You're in a freaking chat room...get over yourself.

[thecatspajamas]

Okay, so when you say "card company," you mean "card manufacturer," not a "card dealer" as I think everyone here (myself included) thought you meant. Totally different situation.

[Westsiders]

So let me get this straight...

If it's JSA certified then it's real. But all the "experts" in this chat room will only render an opinion if they have a cert to go along with it. Please....

Very disappointed in this chat room. All you guys support each other in not being willing to give a detailed opinion. Doesn't take much expertise to say "don't like it" or "no good".
Once more explanation is asked for, you guys say "set up". WHHHHYYYY would someone set you up????? For what benefit???? This is silly.

And the "set up" and "wasting our time" comments are simply ridiculous.

You guys win.

You beat the new guy looking for help.

[thecatspajamas]

So let me get this straight...

If it's JSA certified then it's real. But all the "experts" in this chat room will only render an opinion if they have a cert to go along with it. Please....

Very disappointed in this chat room. All you guys support each other in not being willing to give a detailed opinion. Doesn't take much expertise to say "don't like it" or "no good".
Once more explanation is asked for, you guys say "set up". WHHHHYYYY would someone set you up????? For what benefit???? This is silly.

And the "set up" and "wasting our time" comments are simply ridiculous.

You guys win.

You beat the new guy looking for help.

It seems to me that plenty of opinions were rendered. You then asked for specifics why, but weren't willing to provide any specifics of your own when asked. It's tit for tat around here, and nobody is required to render any opinions. Clearly there was a misunderstanding as to what kind of situation you were presenting, and it should be understandable for people to clam up when something smells fishy (as a result of the misunderstanding).

And by the way, there is a sub-forum specifically for autos (link at the top of the page). Also, being demanding and insulting to people offering free advice is generally considered bad form.

[Forever Young]

So let me get this straight...

If it's JSA certified then it's real. But all the "experts" in this chat room will only render an opinion if they have a cert to go along with it. Please....

Very disappointed in this chat room. All you guys support each other in not being willing to give a detailed opinion. Doesn't take much expertise to say "don't like it" or "no good".
Once more explanation is asked for, you guys say "set up". WHHHHYYYY would someone set you up????? For what benefit???? This is silly.

And the "set up" and "wasting our time" comments are simply ridiculous.

You guys win.

You beat the new guy looking for help.

Chill out man. Nobody likes the autograph.. How you got anything else out of the posts is beyond me. Perhaps you should collect something else. The concern was that you were saying it was JSA certed. I don't believe JSA certed this..PERIOD. I don't think it is real and I think JSA would agree. Clear enough? This is my opinion anyway...for what it is worth. Also, how can a card company rely on a JSA CERT they have not produced? No one owes you anything.

[chaddurbin]

you are being very vague when it comes to critical information being given, and everyone can see through it. who is the company? if they're reputable they should have no problem giving you the jsa cert so you can verify with spence yourself. no one here believes it's a jsa piece, that's why they're being suspicious. you being evasive doesn't help your case any. bringing in your "son" doesn't make you any more sympathetic.

[Westsiders]

Chill out man. Nobody likes the autograph.. How you got anything else out of the posts is beyond me. Perhaps you should collect something else. The concern was that you were saying it was JSA certed. I don't believe JSA certed this..PERIOD. I don't think it is real and I think JSA would agree. Clear enough? This is my opinion anyway...for what it is worth. Also, how can a card company rely on a JSA CERT they have not produced? No one owes you anything.

Guys...all the major card companies rely on third party authenticators (almost always JSA and PSA/DNA). None do there own "in-house" authentications....it transfers liability (for cases just like this).

[Westsiders]

you are being very vague when it comes to critical information being given, and everyone can see through it. who is the company? if they're reputable they should have no problem giving you the jsa cert so you can verify with spence yourself. no one here believes it's a jsa piece, that's why they're being suspicious. you being evasive doesn't help your case any. bringing in your "son" doesn't make you any more sympathetic.

Vague???

I've explained the entire situation. If I had the cert I would post it. This very reputable card company assured me that it's JSA certified.

And for those asking why I don't list the card companies name....it's to protect myself. If I came in here blasting this card company, what leverage would that leave me with? Remember, I'm still waiting for the replacement card. As it stands, I'm out a lot of $$, with no Ruth auto card to show for it. The card company agreed to show me the replacement auto before puting it in a card....and that is where the auto (photo'd) comes from. They have assured me that it's JSA certified...and it would be crazy for them to falsify that (simply wouldn't do it).

Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe there underlying circumstances that I'm not familiar...but set ups?? Really?? Why in the world would I make this story up?

[GrayGhost]

Nowhere near as knowledgeable as most on here, but for starters:

The B is hideous. the way the autograph trails off down and to the right is atypical most times, the a in Babe looks off to me, as does the h at the end.

Whether people do or don't like JSA, there is NO WAY they would certify that. If the card company can't provide a LETTER/PHOTO showing that item as certified by them, I would tell them they r being fraudulent and DEMAND A refund. Its a garbage Ruth, plain and simple.

Some of the most disrespected authenticators around wouldn't certify that. JSA surely wouldn't. So, if u r being honest with us, I'm being honest as to what you should do.

Scott Roberts

[Sean1125]

I don't have the cert...but the card company does. But again, this card company has been around for a long time and is very reputable, so I'm confident that JSA has certified this auto, but I'm not sure that the auto is legit.

For anyone that is well versed in Ruth auto's, please let me know what you think about this auto. If suspicious, please let me know what exactly you think is problematic with the auto.

Thanks Again!

This line always scares me... Especially when big brother is watching and 2+2=5...

Vague???

I've explained the entire situation. If I had the cert I would post it. This very reputable card company assured me that it's JSA certified.

And for those asking why I don't list the card companies name....it's to protect myself. If I came in here blasting this card company, what leverage would that leave me with? Remember, I'm still waiting for the replacement card. As it stands, I'm out a lot of $$, with no Ruth auto card to show for it. The card company agreed to show me the replacement auto before puting it in a card....and that is where the auto (photo'd) comes from. They have assured me that it's JSA certified...and it would be crazy for them to falsify that (simply wouldn't do it).

Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe there underlying circumstances that I'm not familiar...but set ups?? Really?? Why in the world would I make this story up?

I try to stay out of things where I end up needing to post my name but going to give my opinion here... You should have no problem giving us the information, you're not protecting yourself or anyone "holding the name", I personally believe your intent is to deceive and you want Net54 to tell you exactly what is wrong with your forgery so you can forge another, better one and ask again. I've seen a lot of companies deal with replacements, Panini, Topps, UD - NONE OF THEM EVER gives a photograph of what they are replacing it with LET ALONE ask you if you think the autograph is good prior to it going in the card, they simply replace it (so you're telling me over hundreds and thousands of replacements they gave you priority and special treatment? I think not). There is no JSA cert on this auto, there never will be. I'm not even familiar with Ruth and even I can tell you it is a piss ass poor forgery.

You don't have a photo of this "previous" card, and your photograph is taken with a low quality camera, all the card companies have much more expensive cameras that would take better pictures (even though they didn't provide you with this one)

And you're right, it would be crazy of them to falsify statements, but I highly doubt it is them - I don't even think they are involved, I think it is you. Your photo is piss poor and comes from a cell phone. I'd suggest leaving and not coming back. The only reason you would argue with some of the most knowledgeable collector's in the hobby is because you already knew the answer (your forgery, not a card companies). Leave and don't come back.


S34N.B4551K

[Sean1125]

A did a little bit more digging and even found the autograph you traced!

http://www.collecting-autographs.com/babe-ruth-autograph.html

[GrayGhost]

Wow. BAM..

Great work, Mr. Holmes.

[GKreindler]

Whoa.

[Scott Garner]

Yikes! :eek:
I love it! ;)

[yanks12025]

Wasn't there a article written acouple years ago about someone getting a Ruth auto from a card company and it was fake. So they asked for another and it was also bad?? Anyone know what I'm talking about.

[jgmp123]

It seems Sean has put a rest to all of our initial suspicions....

[GrayGhost]

He came to the wrong place. Too many people here are analytical and also give a damn bout people trying to rip someone off, in any fashion.

[daves_resale_shop]

A did a little bit more digging and even found the autograph you traced!

http://www.collecting-autographs.com/babe-ruth-autograph.html

Nice work!

[Mr. Zipper]

I've often suspected some of the "can you tell me specifically what's wrong with this autograph" inquiries were forgers testing the water and looking for improvement tips. (On chat boards everywhere... Not just here.)

This is the closest I've seen to confirming that suspicion.

[jrlebert]

Wow. I could not be more impressed with the sleuthing that was done in this thread. Here I was, all set to be a little huffy at the fact that all this guy was looking for was answers on why his auto wasn't legit, and, man, am I glad I held my tongue.

Sean, I would have never thought of most of the points that you threw out here, and then to go and find the exact signature? Killed it.

Yet another reason why I belong to this forum. Just saying a quick thanks to everyone. Fantastic read.

[GrayGhost]

Wow. I could not be more impressed with the sleuthing that was done in this thread. Here I was, all set to be a little huffy at the fact that all this guy was looking for was answers on why his auto wasn't legit, and, man, am I glad I held my tongue.

Sean, I would have never thought of most of the points that you threw out here, and then to go and find the exact signature? Killed it.

Yet another reason why I belong to this forum. Just saying a quick thanks to everyone. Fantastic read.

+1;)

[RichardSimon]

A did a little bit more digging and even found the autograph you traced!

http://www.collecting-autographs.com/babe-ruth-autograph.html

I just noticed this thread today and must say GREAT WORK Sean.
Amazing how after you discovered this picture the OP has stopped posting.
Also pretty funny that an article about collecting Ruth autographs has a bogus illustration at the top.

[Sean1125]

I've often suspected some of the "can you tell me specifically what's wrong with this autograph" inquiries were forgers testing the water and looking for improvement tips. (On chat boards everywhere... Not just here.)

This is the closest I've seen to confirming that suspicion.



I believe a majority of the inquiries into autographs are along those lines. How the person reacts and what they say is a big indication. This individuals gang affiliation in addition to what was said means the red flag has been raised and flown. I was debating about holding that pic but with how I went off without it you would think I'm crazy!

[RichardSimon]

I've often suspected some of the "can you tell me specifically what's wrong with this autograph" inquiries were forgers testing the water and looking for improvement tips. (On chat boards everywhere... Not just here.)

This is the closest I've seen to confirming that suspicion.

+1

[Westsiders]

Guys,

I'm the OP... My name is Scott Romero, and I live in Southern California. Everything that I've posted here is 100% true and accurate. The notions that I'm a forger...or even better "gang affiliated" are completely off-base. Btw...the name "Westsiders" comes from long standing fantasy football league (league was east coast based, and I was the only one on the West Coast...hence the name).

Again, I'm new here and must be missing something. The comments about "big brother watching", and "set up"...I just don't get. If I was a forger, wouldn't I pick a more typical Ruth auto to copy? The arguements/reasoning just don't make sense to me.

I think it's amazing that Sean found this auto on-line (I looked for hours with no success). But to be honest, I don't even know what to make of it. Is the auto on there because it's an example of a fake, or is it there because the author likes the appearance of the auto?

For arguements sake, let's take my photo out of it (which btw...was 100% sent to me by the card company). Is the auto itself real???

I am frustrated...but do appreciate help. And you guys must have some experience in these chat rooms that cause you to be extremely suspicious, just not sure why.

Thanks,

Scott

[GrayGhost]

The autograph you posted and that Sean found are one and the same as you know. In both cases, they ARE FORGERIES.

[cubsfan-budman]

Guys,

I'm the OP... My name is Scott Romero, and I live in Southern California. Everything that I've posted here is 100% true and accurate. The notions that I'm a forger...or even better "gang affiliated" are completely off-base. Btw...the name "Westsiders" comes from long standing fantasy football league (league was east coast based, and I was the only one on the West Coast...hence the name).

Again, I'm new here and must be missing something. The comments about "big brother watching", and "set up"...I just don't get. If I was a forger, wouldn't I pick a more typical Ruth auto to copy? The arguements/reasoning just don't make sense to me.

I think it's amazing that Sean found this auto on-line (I looked for hours with no success). But to be honest, I don't even know what to make of it. Is the auto on there because it's an example of a fake, or is it there because the author likes the appearance of the auto?

For arguements sake, let's take my photo out of it (which btw...was 100% sent to me by the card company). Is the auto itself real???

I am frustrated...but do appreciate help. And you guys must have some experience in these chat rooms that cause you to be extremely suspicious, just not sure why.

Thanks,

Scott

man, you just need to move on. it's been repeated over and over by many experts here that the Ruth that you posted on your original message is not genuine.

people here guard the "tricks of the trade" closely...not because of a lack of generosity, but because they don't want to enable other scammers to create better forgeries. no expert here is going to tell you specifics on WHY that sig is bad. they did you a favor (one that several of the folks on this board get PAID to do for their livings) by letting you know that it is, indeed, fake.

i dont think you're actually a scammer, personally...but you already knew the answer to your question when you came here. that "B" in Babe is messed up. tell the "card company" that the sig is NOT satisfactory. Refer them here if you need to.

i do agree with many here that this reputable card company may not actually be all that reputable.

i'll bet you are out a good deal of money, and i hope you get the outcome you deserve.

best of luck.

Christian

[Westsiders]

Yep...I'm out a good chunk of change.

I had to go back and forth with the company for quite a while to get them to agree to replace the first card. Then waited several months for the replacement card, and seems I'm right back where I started...with a Ruth auto that doesn't seem legit.

Appreciate the advice.

Scott

[cubsfan-budman]

I would ask the company to send you at least the SN off of the JSA cert.

That auto is so obviously bad, I would assume that any JSA certification they have is also fake.

you could send that SN info to JSA and try to find out whats up.


Yep...I'm out a good chunk of change.

I had to go back and forth with the company for quite a while to get them to agree to replace the first card. Then waited several months for the replacement card, and seems I'm right back where I started...with a Ruth auto that doesn't seem legit.

Appreciate the advice.

Scott

[Sean1125]

Provide us with a photo of the "previous" card.

[Westsiders]

Sean, I have all the photos and JSA cert for the first card, but I'm hesitant to post it.

My reasoning is this:

Right now, the only leverage I have with the card company is that I haven't blasted them on any websites (anywhere). They seem to be working with me (such as sending me an advanced photo of the auto they want to use in the replacement card), because they don't want their name associated with fake autos. If I give them up here, and post photos of the original card, I feel that will weaken my position. My big mistake was agreeing to send in the original card without receiveing the replacement card. They said they wanted to get the original card "off the market"...and I agreed to send it in (mistake of a new collector).

And to be honest, I don't know if replacing such high-end cards is common in the industry.

[Sean1125]

Then PM it to me and I will keep it completely confidential.

[Wymers Auction]

Guys,

You're killling me...

If I had the JSA cert, I would post it. The card company said that it's JSA certified, and I have no reason to doubt it. The cert isn't going to provide any additional info other than to say that in JSA's "considered opinion", the auto is legit.

Trust me, the card company is tired of dealing with me, and they know that I'm going to research any auto they give to me as a replacement.
We are not killing you in all due respect you are killing us. If you tell us all of the details we can

Tell you if it truly is a legitimate card company. I have my doubts I have never heard of anyone purchasing a Ruth Auto and then if it is not good they send a replacement. That in itself is ridiculous.
The JSA cert number does matter we can tell if the cert truly points Tto a Ruth auto and the card would most likely show us a photo of the item. The reason why people are asking this is that the auto is so bad that they do not believe JSA certed this.
Many do not like to give details about the auto because they do not know the intentions of the person asking (forgery). Secondly if they were to tell you the details you are way too inexperienced to get it. This takes time a lot of these people on here have been in autos for 20+ years.

I also would restate that if this is the second bad Babe Ruth in a row then this company is not legit. Coaches Corner has been in business awhile and a very high majority of their autos are fake.
Not trying to cause you trouble, but I have tried to summarize this in a truthful matter. Also, it is sort of silly to ask people for their help and then chastise them.

[Runscott]

This has got to be the weirdest autograph thread ever. Someone posts a 'Babe Ruth' that is so blatantly bad that 9 out of 10 second-graders, when shown this one along with five others, would pick it out immediately as being different.

So obviously, JSA did NOT authenticate it.

It came from a 'reputable card company' that has already taken back one fake JSA-authenticated signature? No, whoever it is, it is not possible that they are reputable. So take them to court and bring this latest 'Babe Ruth' with you.

This whole thing stinks.

[Sean1125]

Getting interesting (not in terms of the OP, it appears he is being honest), will update as soon as I have details (minus what I agree to keep confidential obviously).

Let's just say the cert does, in fact, check out - I won't say more yet since I don't have it.

[RichardSimon]

How about sending us a scan of the original Ruth autograph with any identifying marks of the card company deleted from your scan?

[GrayGhost]

Everyone grab a Beer and a big bag of popcorn and sit back and enjoy this feature film:p

[Runscott]

Everyone grab a Beer and a big bag of popcorn and sit back and enjoy this feature film:p

Grab a beer? Please don't twist my arm, it being Friday and all.

I'm hoping to go home and find this waiting for me - I love cool stuff that doesn't require a professional to tell me it's cool :)

[Sean1125]

I spoke with Scott...

It is a unique situation I can say that much. As per my post I will keep all identifying details confidential...

In a nutshell:

A Babe Ruth autograph was inserted into a product, it was pulled and Scott ended up purchasing it. It came to his attention that the autograph was questionable. He spoke with the company and after much prodding they admitted their fault and expressed interest to fix it. This is the photograph of the autograph they want to replace the previous with. The company claims it is full JSA but Scott hasn't received any copies of the letter the company claims to have for this autograph and was only provided with that photograph.

I suggested he give the board some more insight on the situation as I believe there are members here who can help, but he has several reasonable concerns and it is up to him if he wants to do that.

His inquiries into exactly what was wrong were innocent, he wanted to point the abnormalities out to the company, I believe it just struck a bad cord with events that have happened in the past.

Anyways - I jumped the gun with my statements and I apologized to Scott for them.

Hope this helps...

Sean

[Westsiders]

All good Sean...no apology needed.

Appreciate you taking the time to speak with me.

I'm currently mulling over whether or not to post all the detials. Sounds like this situation is a bit more unique than I first assumed.

Thanks again.

[MGHPro]

Not to get off subject, but just to show card companies do screw up... here's the knob of what was supposed to be a Cobb gamer- Cobb was long retired when model numbers were put on bats..
matt

[Westsiders]

I do have a quick question for you Sean.

Knowing the backstory, do you believe a JSA cert exists for the auto in this thread? And I'll throw in the disclaimer that Sean (nor I) have seen it (but I am extremely confident that it exists)?

Don't mean to put you on the spot, but many seem to think that there's no way the cert exists. And before anyone asks me to post it....I don't have it.

Must admit that this chat room is growing on me :)

Scott

[Sean1125]

I do have a quick question for you Sean.

Knowing the backstory, do you believe a JSA cert exists for the auto in this thread? And I'll throw in the disclaimer that Sean (nor I) have seen it (but I am extremely confident that it exists)?

Don't mean to put you on the spot, but many seem to think that there's no way the cert exists. And before anyone asks me to post it....I don't have it.

Must admit that this chat room is growing on me :)

Scott

After seeing the previous cert I believe a cert could exist... Should it? I think the answer is obvious - but if the question is could one exist the answer is yes - and I think there is somewhat of a problem if it does...

[Westsiders]

After seeing the previous cert I believe a cert could exist... Should it? I think the answer is obvious - but if the question is could one exist the answer is yes - and I think there is somewhat of a problem if it does...

I appreciate the candor....

[Forever Young]

I appreciate the candor....

Could would should? Are you going to get teh cert or not? If not, please quit saying it is certed and move on.

[RichardSimon]

Could would should? Are you going to get teh cert or not? If not, please quit saying it is certed and move on.

+1

[RichardSimon]

--
BREAKING NEWS:
I am selling the original version of the Ten Commandments and Moses himself signed this heretofore unknown example.
I do have a cert but it will take me a lot of time to get to it, after all I have bats and uniforms to cut up and fake autographs to attach to cards. And apparently bats that the players never really used, despite what I say.
I am a big time card manufacturer, why are you bothering me with trivialities??

[Scott Garner]

--
BREAKING NEWS:
I am selling the original version of the Ten Commandments and Moses himself signed this heretofore unknown example.
I do have a cert but it will take me a lot of time to get to it, after all I have bats and uniforms to cut up and fake autographs to attach to cards. And apparently bats that the players never really used, despite what I say.
I am a big time card manufacturer, why are you bothering me with trivialities??

LOL

I know someone that has somewhere near 1000 cards with game used Nolan Ryan uniform swatches. Do you really believe that's possible?

I have no proof other than common sense, but I personally think this whole game used card thing is a scam. Not only that, but what they are doing with some "rare" autographs turns my stomach.

Just my 2 cents...

[RichardSimon]

LOL

I know someone that has somewhere near 1000 cards with game used Nolan Ryan uniform swatches. Do you really believe that's possible?

I have no proof other than common sense, but I personally think this whole game used card thing is a scam. Not only that, but what they are doing with some "rare" autographs turns my stomach.

Just my 2 cents...

The FBI made a big bust of guys selling bogus uniforms. Many or most of the uniforms were going to the card companies.