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Tanman7baseball
02-17-2013, 03:29 PM
I know this is my third post asking for advice on authenticity. I love baseball and I used to collect a lot 8 years ago. I ended up buying a couple of fake Mickey Mantle autographs 8 years ago and I just stopped collecting because I was just disappointed in what the hobby has become. It sucks not being able to trust anyone when buying.

Now the itch is back and I am sticking with cards instead. I just need help identifying things to look for when it comes to fakes.

I understand the printing, ink, card stock, and color when identifying cards but I'm still discerned about expensive cards. I might know a bit but I know there are many other collectors on this forum that can help me... I just don't want to get scammed again.

Let me know if there is any reasons why I shouldn't buy this Mickey Mantle.

Thanks everybody

Tanman7baseball
02-17-2013, 03:31 PM
Back

lsutigers1973
02-17-2013, 04:27 PM
Obviously just my opinion, but if you are worried about authenticity just avoid the card and buy one already graded by PSA or SGC.

Plus, even if it is real which I have no reason to believe otherwise, it's not the nicest one you can find. Atrocious front centering always bothers me.

Tanman7baseball
02-17-2013, 06:19 PM
I understand its not the nicest but I do like grabbing as many Mantle cards as I can!!! I buy everything Mickey Mantle no matter what shape just because that's my guy I collect.

bbcard1
02-17-2013, 06:32 PM
there isn't really anything that bothers me about it. Not always possible to tell a lot of things by a scan that you can by feel.

freakhappy
02-17-2013, 07:11 PM
Colby, the Mantle looks good to me, but I'm not professional on detecting frauds.

I know some people don't like the centering to have issues, but that's a beautiful card and if I were you and the price is right...I'd jump on it! Centering can be overrated, but is definitely a preference with some.

Bestdj777
02-17-2013, 07:50 PM
Colby, I am a Mantle guy myself, so I understand the desire to pick up as much as you can. I would strongly advise against buying any high grade cards raw though. There is too much of a risk with it, particularly if you are buying online. In the lower grades, it is much easier to identify a fake. Just my two cents.

the 'stache
02-17-2013, 10:08 PM
Colby, your concerns are understandable. Shelling out a lot of money on a raw card, especially a nice Mantle, could end up breaking your heart if down the road you found out it were a fake. Don't worry about asking for the members of the forum to look over cards. That's really why the forum exists, isn't it? Not only to share your collection, but to get help from people that collect, and have been where you are now. I know that once I get a few of the modern cards I need knocked out for my collection, and start buying a lot of vintage cards, I'll be asking the same questions you are now.

My suggestions? Stick to buying graded vintage cards at first. While there is always the possibility that a slab could be tampered with, you're less likely to get burned. I will never buy a card without a return period (14 days is standard now on Ebay). Buy your card, take a picture or scan of the slabbed card, and share it with us. Let us look it over (the card, and the slab/flip themselves). I've been more of a modern card guy, but I am pretty good at spotting issues with slabs. Unless somebody is really good at popping slabs, usually there will be some evidence of tampering, at least with PSA. And as many here will advise you, if you buy a graded Mantle, look at the card inside the slab. Does the card match the grade given to it? If you're buying a '57 Mantle that's graded a PSA 6, and there's a huge crease across the card, something's not right.

If you really want to do vintage raw, here's what I do.

I was in the market a little while back for a 1981 Topps Joe Montana rookie. I wanted it raw, but had the same concerns you do with this Mantle. So, I bought a 1981 Topps Steve Deberg, and had that in hand when I received the Montana. I have a jeweler's loupe, a magnifying glass, black light, and a nice ruler that I used in examining the Montana.

I carefully compared the Deberg to the Montana. I looked at the cards simultaneously under the magnifying glass, paying attention to the printing. I then looked at other things, like the stock the card was printed on, etc. I figure nobody in their right mind would forge a $2 Steve Deberg card, so I knew that was an original. And after comparing the cards, I felt comfortable that the Montana was an original.

Now, a 1957 Topps Mantle in nice condition is going to be much more expensive than the $120 I spent on the Montana. But there should be several 1957 Topps baseball cards available on Ebay at affordable prices. It doesn't really have to be in great shape, either, does it? You might buy one to compare to the Mantle when you get it. Then keep that other card to compare to any raw '57 Topps baseball card you might buy in the future. If you keep doing that as you buy high value vintage cards, you should create a "control group", so to speak, that will always give you a little more peace of mind. Even the most expensive sets, like the '52 Topps, have affordable cards which you can add to your collection.

As for this card, there's nothing jumping out at me which would send up red flags. The edges and corners look pretty clean, the centering is off and the surface looks a little scratched up. But from what I can see, this is a pretty nice raw Mantle.

Look at the seller's feedback rating. Look, too, at what they've sold in the past. Do they deal a lot in really nice raw vintage cards like this? That in and of itself isn't a red flag either way, but if the only vintage card they've ever sold ends up being a $600 1957 Topps Commerce Comet card, it might make me pause just a little. Also, does the seller offer a return period?

That's actually the first Mantle I'm looking to buy, so nice choice! Let us know what you do. And welcome back to the hobby! ;)

Bestdj777
02-17-2013, 10:25 PM
I didn't mention in my post but nothing really looks off about this card to me. The color looks good, the condition looks good (no artificial wear), and the ghost is present.

the 'stache
02-17-2013, 10:35 PM
Wow, I don't know how many times I've looked at that card, and I never noticed the ghost until now.

Tanman7baseball
02-18-2013, 08:27 PM
I appreciate the help guys. I like to buy and trade cards locally because I rather support my local card shop or card collector friend. I'm meeting more and more people wanting to trade or sell, and I just don't know sometimes when I find an awesome high-end card if its real or fake. That's why I will post it on here to get some help. I just don't like buying high end graded cards because the chance that it has been tampered with scares me. I'm sticking with raw cards and then when I buy high end graded cards I figured I would stick with well known dealers or auction houses.

Bestdj777
02-18-2013, 08:47 PM
Wow, I don't know how many times I've looked at that card, and I never noticed the ghost until now.

I just learned about the ghost a few months ago from a Net54 thread. I own the card yet had never seen it. If you ever get bored, take a look through ebay. It is really cool seeing the various degrees of the ghost. Every card I have seen has one present, but some are much clearer.


Colby, this may sounds strange, but something I do with all older cards is I take them out of the holder and smell them. Older cards tend to get a bit of a musty smell. Obviously, older fakes would likely have this smell as well, so it isn't fool proof. But, it is just another tool to use.

ALR-bishop
02-18-2013, 09:45 PM
If you compare enough of the 57 Mantles you can find different degrees in the airbrushing of the figure in the background. I have been told there are cards with the figure more or less all gone, but never seen one. The other mystery is who it was.

Volod
02-20-2013, 11:31 AM
If you compare enough of the 57 Mantles you can find different degrees in the airbrushing of the figure in the background. I have been told there are cards with the figure more or less all gone, but never seen one. The other mystery is who it was.

Al, maybe a plausible candidate would be Billy Martin. The Yankees demoted him to Kansas City in June, 1957, following the notorious incident in the Copacabana. Ok, actually it was a lateral transfer, since KC was technically a major league club. Even so, that would not have been the reason for the airbrush job by Topps - but, knowing Martin, he could have been in the background of the photo of his pal, Mantle, perhaps making a gesture similar to the one he famously slipped into his 1972 Topps card. Just a wild theory, I know.