Jumbo PSA 5(mc) T206 Wagner- Goldin Auctions- No Reserve

[Leon]

WEST BERLIN, NJ - FEB. 13, 2013 - On March 29 a fortunate collector will join an exclusive club, by adding one of the three finest T206 Honus Wagner baseball cards in existence to his collection. Goldin Auctions has announced that bidding for the Wagner, graded EX 5 (MC) (serial number 15385994) by PSA, will begin at $500,000 with no reserve in the Goldin Auctions 2013 Winter Auction, from February 25-March 29, 2013. A preview of the 850 lot auction will be available online at www.GoldinAuctions.com beginning February 22.

Issued by the American Tobacco Company, from 1909-11 as part of the T206 series, less than 200 Wagner cards were ever issued. Production of the card was halted after Wagner, the Pittsburgh Pirates star shortstop, requested the tobacco company to stop including his image in the cigarette packs. As a result, there have been less than 60 authentic Wagner cards submitted for authentication and/or grading by the major card grading companies.

"With less than 60 authenticated Wagner cards out there, the opportunity to purchase one does not come around very often. The few owners recognize the investment potential of these ultra-rare, highly sought after collectibles and rarely sell them," said Ken Goldin, Founder of Goldin Auctions. "This high-grade Wagner is in a class with just two others that have ever been graded a '5' or better. With a starting bid of just $500,000 and no reserve, on March 29 someone new will own this investment grade piece of baseball and American history."

The T206 Honus Wagner up for auction has been referred to as "The Jumbo Wagner" by many in the world of sports collectibles due to its unusually ample borders. These dimensions, exceeding by far the standard size for a T206 baseball card, have virtually preserved a Near Mint example within its boundaries, elevating this example to an even higher and possibly unprecedented level in terms of condition. This card's very existence, along with its condition, have defied virtually all odds to provide one fortunate collector the bragging rights of a superb example of the most coveted card in the arena of sports collectibles.

Based upon the current environment and historical price increases, it is quite possible for this sale to set a new overall record price for a T206 Wagner. In 2012, a Wagner graded VG 3 sold for over $1.2 million - a 76% increase over what another VG 3 Wagner sold for just four years earlier. The only known public sale of an EX 5 Wagner was, for this very card back in 2008, for $1.62 million.



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[g_vezina_c55]

No reserve wow Verry cool i am impatient to see this war bidding !!

[GasHouseGang]

Lets buy it together as a board and then we can all say we own a T206 Wagner. I'll kick in $100. Who's with me?:D

[Iron Horse]

for $100 count me in :)

[atx840]

Ditto. Lets do it for Johnny. :)

[g_vezina_c55]

4249 member here on the board. With 100$ contribution from each member you can bid : 424 900
Opening bid for the PSA 5 is 500K ....

We can buy a graded 1 wagner :)

[DaveW]

Let's see ..... if we want to bid $2 million, then we need 20,000 investors at $100 each. Then if we win, each of the 20,000 investors could have the card for 1 day - but it would take 54.8 years for each of us to get our turn. OK, I'm in!

[Iron Horse]

bump it to $250 per member :D

[EvilKing00]

im in for 250

[travrosty]

If there is a full wagner within the borders, whatever happened to the handcut designation idea? you could have a psa 10. With that possibility, this card is worth way more than it is advertised for. think what a 10 would go for! This card is way undervalued even at 3 million plus considering its potential being a jumbo! I think you will be shocked at what it will go for!

[Bored5000]

I like the auction description that it is mere good fortune which will allow the winner to wind up with a Wagner T-206. ;)

[Fred]

Wow, what an opportunity to feel like a big shot.... I can be the opening bid for $500K and not have to worry about winning and paying up...

Any idea how an auction house would verify if you could even possibly pay for the item if you happened to be the high bidder? Do they pre-qualify bidders for something like this?

Also, does being a "jumbo" really increase the value of the card? My only thought would be that someone would crack the case, laser down the edges and still have a card that meets the minimum requirement.

Wow, I wonder if anybody's ever done that before??? :confused: :eek: :p

[Leon]

Wow, what an opportunity to feel like a big shot.... I can be the opening bid for $500K and not have to worry about winning and paying up...

Any idea how an auction house would verify if you could even possibly pay for the item if you happened to be the high bidder? Do they pre-qualify bidders for something like this?

Also, does being a "jumbo" really increase the value of the card? My only thought would be that someone would crack the case, laser down the edges and still have a card that meets the minimum requirement.

Wow, I wonder if anybody's ever done that before??? :confused: :eek: :p

Hi Fred,
Here is a recent message to me concerning your questions.

“Please note that to preserve the integrity of the auction and protect all bidders as well as the consignor, bidding on this lot requires pre-approval and all interested bidders MUST contact us in advance for pre-approval or they will not be authorized to bid. No approvals will be given within two business days of the auction close”
This is right from the last line in the description of the card.

And the 2 business day statement is in there , obviously, because if we do not know someone and need to check references, and any financial info, we cant be doing it on last day!

thanks"



.

[cobblove]

I got 5 on it.

[steve B]

Wow, what an opportunity to feel like a big shot.... I can be the opening bid for $500K and not have to worry about winning and paying up...

Any idea how an auction house would verify if you could even possibly pay for the item if you happened to be the high bidder? Do they pre-qualify bidders for something like this?

Also, does being a "jumbo" really increase the value of the card? My only thought would be that someone would crack the case, laser down the edges and still have a card that meets the minimum requirement.

Wow, I wonder if anybody's ever done that before??? :confused: :eek: :p

Extra large cards aren't usually worth much more than a regular sized one. Some people might pay a bit more if it makes the card look nicer.

Now extra large stamps is another matter entirely. Perfect centering and extra large margins usually mean an extra large price. Sometimes about 50X catalog. Typical ones can usually be found for 50% of catalog at retail, and in batches maybe 10%.

http://www.siegelauctions.com/dynamic/lots.php?year=2012&lot_name=1870-88 Bank Note Issues (Scott 146-218)&start_lot=151&stop_lot=194&sale_name=The Merlin Collection of Superb United States Stamps&sale_no=1034&sale_date=Wednesday thru Thursday, <br>November 28-29, 2012

Lot 160 is a prime example. Catalog value $1 near perfect and with huge margins sold for 170.
Lot 170 is simply amazing. The margins are big enough to begin showing the edges of the stamps to the right and left. CV $6 sold for 1000! (Only 166x catalog, not quite as good as lot 160:rolleyes:)

Steve B

[WillBBC]

I'm genuinely curious about how feasible a group purchase for this would be. Any idea what kind of work would have to be done? I just think it would be kind of incredible to own a legit share of a card of this magnitude.

[mark evans]

I like the auction description that it is mere good fortune which will allow the winner to wind up with a Wagner T-206. ;)

A 'good fortune' indeed.

[Runscott]

Beautiful card, but interesting how the 'MC' designator's meaning has been changed for this card. It's also frustrating to see the top of another card (Wagner?) below it.

"The 'MC' notation in the grade reflects the card’s ample borders which are 1/16 of an inch larger than standard T206 size. Housed within these borders is arguably a Near Mint Honus Wagner"

[botn]

Beautiful card, but interesting how the 'MC' designator's meaning has been changed for this card. It's also frustrating to see the top of another card (Wagner?) below it.

"The 'MC' notation in the grade reflects the card’s ample borders which are 1/16 of an inch larger than standard T206 size. Housed within these borders is arguably a Near Mint Honus Wagner"

Maybe a NM example will be discovered shortly after the auction?

[Craig M]

At the start of this thread, David M proposed that Net54 members pool our money together and take a stab at this Wagner. The proposal was to kick in $100 and board members started getting on board. Then Ruben stepped it up to everyone putting forth $250. Board members continued to jump on.

What I would like to realistically propose that each of us put forth $500. I think that even the guy on a strict collecting budget would be able to afford this and would like to get in on the action.

I suggest a member with credibility that joined in either March or April of 2009 be the point of contact and money man where we can send our money. IF we do not win the Wagner, all monies will be returned less a $5 fee for money order and postage.

I am prepared today to send $500.

Craig

[Runscott]

Maybe a NM example will be discovered shortly after the auction?

:) A butchered Wagner would be the talk here for years to come.

BTW - the card has what appears to be a 'holder ding' on the top border near the right.

[ullmandds]

and how would it be agreed upon when to sell this communal card?

[Craig M]

Like everything else with communal property. a vote of course. Anything over 50% is a majority.

[rainier2004]

At the start of this thread, David M proposed that Net54 members pool our money together and take a stab at this Wagner. The proposal was to kick in $100 and board members started getting on board. Then Ruben stepped it up to everyone putting forth $250. Board members continued to jump on.

What I would like to realistically propose that each of us put forth $500. I think that even the guy on a strict collecting budget would be able to afford this and would like to get in on the action.

I suggest a member with credibility that joined in either March or April of 2009 be the point of contact and money man where we can send our money. IF we do not win the Wagner, all monies will be returned less a $5 fee for money order and postage.

I am prepared today to send $500.

Craig

This is an interesting idea, but the math wouldnt work for me. Even if I had the money for this, youd need 1000 members at $500 per to generate some real funds. It would have to get to a point requiring far less members, at $2000 each thats still 250 folks. It would be sweet to have a Wags siiting on the mantle for a week every five years...

[Cerberus]

So far, all of the proposals involve each participant "investing" the same amount. How about allowing participants to invest whatever amount they wish, with an agreed-upon minimum of, for example, $1,000.

Clearly, one's percentage ownership in the card (and in net profits upon re-sale), would be equal to the percentage said individual's contribution bears to the overall purchase price. When it came time to "vote" on any major issue (such as when/if to re-sell), each individual would have a similar pro-rata number of votes, on the particular issue.

In order to make sure that no one party had control of any vote (because he may have decided to contribute more than 50% of the overall purchase price), you can limit any one individual's contribution (including family members, etc.) to a certain percentage (40% as an example), of the overall purchase price.

Obviously, somewhat unwieldy to administrate, and adequate insurance would have to be purchased, as well. The card would be "passed around," like the Stanley Cup--again with each owner having physical possession of the grail, for a number of days during any given year, equal to his/her percentage of ownership.

Food for thought?

Michael

[botn]

What happens when participants want or need to liquidate their interest prior to sale of the card? Will someone be able to do that? Do they get bought out at cost of their initial investment, at FMV or something in between? What if the amount is so large that funds are not available to pay the exiting participant? What about the possible tax reporting on the eventual disposition. I think a formal partnership with a partnership agreement would have to be established.

[Runscott]

^What happens when participants want or need to liquidate their interest prior to sale of the card? Will someone be able to do that? Do they get bought out at cost of their initial investment, at FMV or something in between? What if the amount is so large that funds are not available to pay the exiting participant? What about the possible tax reporting on the eventual disposition. I think a formal partnership with a partnership agreement would have to be established.

Greg, a far more simple way to handle would be to cut the card up into slivers and have Leaf encapsulate each sliver, along with a Net54 unique 'sliver number'. Then you can sell it in the B/S/T section.

But if you're going to do that, probably better to go after the Nun's Wagner (or Andrew's ?)

?:confused:?
<0>

[drmondobueno]

Do it the american way. Sell shares at $ 100 or $250 each. That way someone who would like to touch the card more than once every 3 years could either a) buy more shares in accordance with their level of desire and, as future circumstances occur b) sell or buy other shares as one sees fit.

Of course we would have to open the Net54 stock exchange and Leon would have to wear a striped silk suit;)

[steve B]

And if we all owned a bit of it, how often do you think it would be cracked out, then resubmitted by the next person who wanted it slabbed, maybe with SGC, then resubbed to PSA, then maybe used by someone to make a splash while starting his own grading company, then cracked out again.......

before too long the pop reports would make it seem as if Wagners were the most common card in the set.

hmmmm........That might prompt the companies to fix the pop reports somehow......Count me in for a share or two:D

Steve B

[Jewish-collector]

I can see it now. We will all discuss it at the Net54 dinner the details of how this will work. :D

[Runscott]

It's really not such a dumb idea, but the math isn't so simple. The card's going to sell for over 2 million. Even selling 1,000 shares, that's $2,000 each, minimum. This would have to be a group investment, incurring all the overhead Greg described, in which case, some might be willing to pony up $100,000 or so each.

It could work. Leon - get on your striped suit and meet with the lawyers.

[Shoeless Moe]

Would it be like the Stanley Cup, everyone gets it for a day and can do what they want with it?

[Iron Horse]

I will get first shot at buying your share and same with mine. That work for you?:D

[Cerberus]

If someone wishes to liquidate, he/she is required to offer up his interest on a "right of first refusal basis," to the other co-owners on the board. As far as the value is concerned, the interest(s) for sale could be offered on the bst, in an "auction" format, with the market thereby determining the value. Liquidated shares could not be purchased by someone who already had a big enough piece, such that the acquisition(s) would put him/her over the 40% (or whatever's agreed upon), maximum ownership percentage threshold.

[Jlighter]

I think most importantly, how would this effect everyone's Monster Number?:D

[travrosty]

it's the dumbest idea on planet earth.

[insidethewrapper]

How could this card be graded if it is not within the standard measurements ? It's considered "Jumbo Wagner" . When I send in a card which is not within a certain measurement I get it back labeled "not gradeable" due to size etc.

[botn]

How could this card be graded if it is not within the standard measurements ? It's considered "Jumbo Wagner" . When I send in a card which is not within a certain measurement I get it back labeled "not gradeable" due to size etc.

Ah. Very valid question. It seems that T206 Wagner have a history of being afforded special consideration. The grading companies will all reject an over sized 1965 Mantle in VG but no way they would consider doing that with a T206 Wagner. Many of the recently graded T206 Wagners have been assessed quite liberally or with completely different standards.

[deadballfreaK]

Would it be like the Stanley Cup, everyone gets it for a day and can do what they want with it?

Exactly! I'd go in for a share. Just to have it for one day. Take some pics. Show it off. Awesome!

[ls7plus]

All kidding aside, if a consortium could actually be assembled to bid upon and win this card, it might well be worth it. IMHO, this card is one of at least two (along with the 1914 Baltimore News Ruth) which could well reach the lofty levels of great works of art and rare and significant automobiles (racing Ferrari's and the single Aston Martin to win Le Mans, piloted by Carroll Shelby, have reached the 20-30 million range) in our lifetimes.

Put me in for a share, guys!

Larry

[Runscott]

There's a math issue here. Again, it's going for $2 mill or more. It's going to take a while for each person to pack and ship it, and there's going to be a huge insurance cost (Not sure why I'm even typing this). If you held it for one day, you'd probably get your turn every...well, let's do the math: ($500 each, $2mill price = 4000 owners...4 days each, including shipping = 16,000 days...16,000/365 = 43 years...add another 10 years for travel problems = 53 years)

I plan to be dead before my turn comes up - perhaps even sooner if I keep wasting brain cells like this.

[Jlighter]

The easiest way to do this would for someone who can spend 2Million+ and then buy "shares" form him. Unfortunately this is unlikely to happen.

One possible option is to have viewing and non-viewing shares. The viewing shares will cost more, but will be able to be viewed for a few days every few years. The non-viewing shares will be purely speculative. Shares can be traded for cards, money etc. A book keeper will keep track of all transactions involved. If shares are traded they have to be to a board member.

There will be an awful of trust involved in this.

[Jlighter]

There's a math issue here. Again, it's going for $2 mill or more. It's going to take a while for each person to pack and ship it, and there's going to be a huge insurance cost (Not sure why I'm even typing this). If you held it for one day, you'd probably get your turn every...well, let's do the math: ($500 each, $2mill price = 4000 owners...4 days each, including shipping = 16,000 days...16,000/365 = 43 years...add another 10 years for travel problems = 53 years)

I plan to be dead before my turn comes up - perhaps even sooner if I keep wasting brain cells like this.

I was thinking about this. In my plan it would cost extra to have a viewing share, making less people to send the card. Sending the card Registered might alleviate this predicament, price wise for insurance.

We could have preferential shares. More money will be paid, but you will recieve the card before others. It could go in a sliding scale, the person who receives the card first will pay more then the person who receives it the last.

[deadballfreaK]

I actually had a chance to buy a Wagner in the early to mid 70s for about $1200. Decent card. PSA2 maybe. I was making maybe two hundred a week at the time. So basically a months pay. A half a mil card today or more! Ugh.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

I was thinking about this. In my plan it would cost extra to have a viewing share, making less people to send the card. Sending the card Registered might alleviate this predicament, price wise for insurance.

We could have preferential shares. More money will be paid, but you will recieve the card before others. It could go in a sliding scale, the person who receives the card first will pay more then the person who receives it the last.

There would be too much liability moving the card. It would need to be something that is stored in a location and treated like an asset. Maybe have a "card party." That way everyone could see and get some pictures taken with it. This is not unheard of in the case of other assets such as paintings and horses.

[Jlighter]

There would be too much liability moving the card. It would need to be something that is stored in a location and treated like an asset. Maybe have a "card party." That way everyone could see and get some pictures taken with it. This is not unheard of in the case of other assets such as paintings and horses.

It would depend on the amount of investors with viewing shares. Maybe a blanket insurance plan can be bought?

[Cerberus]

How about the co-owners hiring a "Jumbo Wagner Custodian," ala the fair-haired fellow, wearing gloves, who travels around with the Stanley Cup?

[deadballfreaK]

There would be too much liability moving the card. It would need to be something that is stored in a location and treated like an asset. Maybe have a "card party." That way everyone could see and get some pictures taken with it. This is not unheard of in the case of other assets such as paintings and horses.

I could go for that.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

It would depend on the amount of investors with viewing shares. Maybe a blanket insurance plan can be bought?

An asset that mobile and fragile has a high premium. The moving expenses would be pretty high because of security.

[Texxxx]

Just send Andrew a picture of yourself and he can photo shop you holding the card.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Just send Andrew a picture of yourself and he can photo shop you holding the card.

:p

[Fred]

Everyone could chip in. Let's say we have 1,000 people each pony up an equal share. Then we could send it to Topps and have them divide it into 1,000 pieces and create the ultimate chase card. Each person could have 1/1,000th of the card pasted to a card indicating it's 1/1,000th of a REAL T206 Honus Wagner!!!

OR

We could all chip in about $1,000 and when we go to sell it and lose money then we all only lose an equal share.

Anybody notice anything about this most current Legendary Auction? Do the prices seem a little soft? That trashed out D304 Cobb only went for about $1200 (including juice). I remember selling that thing a few years back for $1800.

[GoldenAge50s]

What happens if it's my turn to have the card & my kid drops it in the toilet?

[freakhappy]

What happens if it's my turn to have the card & my kid drops it in the toilet?

Change your name and disappear....fast! :eek:

[GoldenAge50s]

---wouldn't you miss me?:)

[freakhappy]

---wouldn't you miss me?:)

Of course, but when you have the entire Net54 family after you, I'd have to say my goodbyes very quickly...honus is a big deal around these parts :p