SGC is now authenticating autographs

[probstein123]

SGC is now authenticating autographs

here is a sample:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Topps-516-Earl-Weaver-Rookie-RC-HOF-Deceased-2013-Signed-SGC-COA-AUTO-/370747154131?pt=US_Autographed_Trading_Cards&hash=item5652409ed3

[kmac32]

Wonder what they charge. I have a really nice Ernie Banks 1965 topps autograph obtained in person at Cubs camp in 2007

[probstein123]

I'm sure they will cheaper than both JSA and PSA for starters while they build a name in authenticating autos....

here is the phone numbers for them
800-SGC-9212 or 973-984-0018

good luck, and for HOF ers like banks, they will put HOF on the slab

thats pretty cool

[yanks12025]

I thought they already did autos?

[Wymers Auction]

It is about time they grabbed up some of that money they have been leaving on the table. I hope they do as good a job on autos as they do on cards.

[probstein123]

before JSA would approve the auto and they would slab for them...

NOW , they are doing the authenticating....

[probstein123]

==> good point, and I agree....did you see how they wrote Deceased on the Weaver flip, thats pretty cool....

[canjond]

Doesn't JSA own SGC now? I would assume they were the ones doing the authentication, no?

[probstein123]

no, that business partnership ended....SGC is not owned by JSA...at one point, JSA invested capital and was helping manage SGC , but SGC is currently independently owned and operated....

[kmac32]

Here's one for you Rick

[probstein123]

ken, that's a beauty

where did u get it signed ?

[HOFAUTOS]

How much are they charging? I can't find anything on their website.

Also, anyone know who's doing the authenticating over there?

[kmac32]

Cubs fantasy camp held every year in Mesa Arizona. It was the 25h anniversary camp and Mr Cub made an appearance. We were having cocktails in a hotel room of the camp photographer when Ernie walked in. Was awesome.

[probstein123]

How much are they charging? I can't find anything on their website.

Also, anyone know who's doing the authenticating over there?

==> I don't think their site has the prices yet...
I'm not sure who is doing the authenticating but I heard the person worked at either jsa or psa at some point....

[probstein123]

very cool

[kmac32]

very cool

He had some great stories. Ernie had me call my wife and he talked with her for about 5 minutes. He kept on telling her that she was the boss of our home and she needed to keep me in line. He was very personable. Signed anything we wanted signed.

[shelly]

Travis, where are you? Another company with three letters. For the rest of you have them tell you who authenticates for them and what there background is. I just can not think that anyone would be so excited with even knowing anything about the people that you are going to spend your money to tell you if it is (In there opinion it is authentic)
This is one more of many that have your interest because you respect them for something that has nothing to do with autographs.
I cant wait for all of you that come on this site and ask our opinions. Once you get a no I am sure you will seek out SGC to make sure. Wow how much do the charge. I cant wait a new company to tell me something you ask of us everyday. They are great, how exciting it to have a new company to take my money.

Jim, Richard, David,Chris, Travis or anyone else that has any balls should no longer give you any opinion.Pay
for it:( You know have a new place to spend your money. I am sure there experts are so much better than the people you ask everyday on this site for nothing.
I will say this, if anyone I have mentioned is part of this company. It is time for you to get paid.

[travrosty]

i would like to know who the authenticators are, what their experience is, exactly who looks at the autograph. these are questions i have never gotten answers to.

it will be another psa, jsa clone to take your money and not give any transparency, responsibility, accountability, accuracy, customer service. same old same old. second verse, same as the first.

[cubsfan-budman]

after reading tons of posts on grading services and frankly, tending to agree with the curmudgeons on most of their points, i think this is actually a pretty cool deal. more competition means doing more to earn business and if collectors need transparency and accountability hopefully these companies will start using those things to attract customers.

in the meantime, i intend to stay the heck off shelly's lawn.

[Big Dave]

If eBay doesn't except their autograph authentications .....it won't matter at all.

[probstein123]

dave, you are 10,000% correct, I was told that this was in process...sgc is very well regarded within the "trust and safety " world of ebay , so I think they should be able to get approved...

[Smanzari]

Awesome! Thanks for the heads up on the Weaver Signed RC- I needed one for the signed HOF RC collection and this is the first one I have seen, in what seems like weeks, at a decent price!

[probstein123]

enjoy, we will ship it today, thanks
rick

[JimStinson]

Travis, where are you? Another company with three letters. For the rest of you have them tell you who authenticates for them and what there background is. I just can not think that anyone would be so excited with even knowing anything about the people that you are going to spend your money to tell you if it is (In there opinion it is authentic)
This is one more of many that have your interest because you respect them for something that has nothing to do with autographs.
I cant wait for all of you that come on this site and ask our opinions. Once you get a no I am sure you will seek out SGC to make sure. Wow how much do the charge. I cant wait a new company to tell me something you ask of us everyday. They are great, how exciting it to have a new company to take my money.

Jim, Richard, David,Chris, Travis or anyone else that has any balls should no longer give you any opinion.Pay
for it:( You know have a new place to spend your money. I am sure there experts are so much better than the people you ask everyday on this site for nothing.
I will say this, if anyone I have mentioned is part of this company. It is time for you to get paid.

_________________
+1 Opinions given for free (at least when it comes to autographs) are percieved as having no value no matter how great or limited the expertise of the person rendering the opinion. However take the exact same item , charge $100.00 to have someone examine it and slab it (No matter for the level of expertise of the examiner or lack of it) and that item will be then be held with the same degree of reverence reserved for the Rosetta Stone or other precious artifact. It baffles me
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[HOFAUTOS]

I only get items I want to sell authenticated, and most collectors have never heard of Jim, Travis, Richard, or Chris, therefore they want the item to have a PSA/DNA or JSA certificate. I don't like it but that's the way things are. The first thing they ask us who is the cert from? Without even examining the autograph! It sucks that its this way but it is what it is.

Side note - I love the SGC holder and wouldn't mind getting some of my signed cards slabbed. That's why I wanted to know how much it is.

[Sean1125]

I only get items I want to sell authenticated, and most collectors have never heard of Jim, Travis, Richard, or Chris, therefore they want the item to have a PSA/DNA or JSA certificate. I don't like it but that's the way things are. The first thing they ask us who is the cert from? Without even examining the autograph! It sucks that its this way but it is what it is.

Side note - I love the SGC holder and wouldn't mind getting some of my signed cards slabbed. That's why I wanted to know how much it is.

I would much rather give anyone on your list my business but when I go to sell at a show I show the cert or mention a name and they say "Oh so it's not PSA?"... So frustrating... :(

[Duluth Eskimo]

I find it ironic that someone who owns a large auction / consignment business is "introducing" a service for SGC without providing any details regarding questions about primary authenticators working for SGC. I do not necessarily agree that PSA and JSA and potentially others do not have a purpose in the hobby as others routinely mention, but others are right on point with specific questions. If you plan on "mentioning" a service like this that is not public yet or listed on the SGC website (if others are correct) you should come clean with your knowledge or let others know where they can get their questions answered. This seems a little too convenient.

[Fuddjcal]

_________________
+1 Opinions given for free (at least when it comes to autographs) are percieved as having no value no matter how great or limited the expertise of the person rendering the opinion. However take the exact same item , charge $100.00 to have someone examine it and slab it (No matter for the level of expertise of the examiner or lack of it) and that item will be then be held with the same degree of reverence reserved for the Rosetta Stone or other precious artifact. It baffles me
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

+1 agree...totally baffling. It's Buffoonery 101.:D

[chaddurbin]

I find it ironic that someone who owns a large auction / consignment business is "introducing" a service for SGC without providing any details regarding questions about primary authenticators working for SGC. I do not necessarily agree that PSA and JSA and potentially others do not have a purpose in the hobby as others routinely mention, but others are right on point with specific questions. If you plan on "mentioning" a service like this that is not public yet or listed on the SGC website (if others are correct) you should come clean with your knowledge or let others know where they can get their questions answered. This seems a little too convenient.

yes, and he conveniently glosses over other threads about shillings in his auctions etc. sgc has always been pretty upfront, i think they will have to let us know who the authenticator(s) is/are when they get this rolling. i'm thinking there has to be at least 2-3 experts as a modern players' sigs and signing habits are totally different than older players.

let's see, richard hasn't responded in this thread and he's only a state over from sgc so maybe they scooped him up? ;)

[otismalibu]

No mention of this on their site...yet.

http://www.sgccard.com/boards/ubbthreads.php

FWIW, there was a $11 special that ran about this time last year. The thread is in the Auto section.

[mschwade]

From what I've been told, Michael Root (former JSA authenticator and director) will be doing the authentications. Rumor has it, they originally tried to recruit one of our valuable forum members.

[probstein123]

any details regarding questions about primary authenticators working for SGC
==> I was told today that mike root is the director of authentication for SGC and that he was the former director of authentication at JSA...also, they have a large pool of consultants lined up helping , I don't know any of those names at this time , but I'm confident SGC will make them available once they update their website and launch and official press release.....

[shelly]

Just what the hobby needs more experts.

[drc]

I don't know about this or that expert, but do know SGC is a reputable company that is concerned and careful about accurate identification in other areas.

[shelly]

So, Mike Root leaves James Spence to now run SGC. I don not see much of a change here. I thought up until know Jim did all there authenticating. Now they will make more money by entering a new market place besides autograph cards.;) Very nice. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[JimStinson]

From what I've been told, Michael Root (former JSA authenticator and director) will be doing the authentications. Rumor has it, they originally tried to recruit one of our valuable forum members.

I am sure they will be ALL household names in the autograph business , the "rumor" is correct BUT since all of the name brands in the autograph business do not come cheap ...Mostly because they already have lucrative established businesses you will get the "experts" that need the dough ,
You get what you pay for. Slabbing has become the new "legos" for adults
________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[chaddurbin]

I am sure they will be ALL household names in the autograph business , the "rumor" is correct BUT since all of the name brands in the autograph business do not come cheap ...Mostly because they already have lucrative established businesses you will get the "experts" that need the dough ,
You get what you pay for. Slabbing has become the new "legos" for adults
________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Jim Stinson...NOT a cheap date!

[JimStinson]

Like an old whore in a bar--I'll buy her a drink but I won't go upstairs with her”
Ernest Hemingway

[tinkereversandme]

Doesn't Jimmy just teach people how to be him anyways? There are like a dozen people authenticating for him that I honestly have never heard of and who is to say who actually authenticated anything? I guess anyone can learn how to authenticate autographs with that kind of thinking.

Larry

[RichardSimon]

Jim Stinson...NOT a cheap date!

Share a few beers with him for a very fun night :).

[JimStinson]

No I'm NOT a cheap date when it comes to autograph authentication ..because to do it right takes MONEY
And to put a 30 year reputation on the line does not come cheap, I'm not a SELL OUT whore that allows my name on any "so called certificate" there are plenty of those already.
_______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[HOFAUTOS]

I would much rather give anyone on your list my business but when I go to sell at a show I show the cert or mention a name and they say "Oh so it's not PSA?"... So frustrating... :(

Yup same here. I've actually purchased from Jim on ebay and man did I get my items fast :D

But since most regular collectors only know of the big two authentication companies, they won't buy the item unless it has the certificate. Go on any other website in the hobby and post an autograph for sale. The first thing they ask is who is the cert from. They don't even care about the autograph itself.

[JimStinson]

Best Option in this hobby today.. put a 25 year old kid behind a curtain pay him slightly above minimum wage and call him an expert. The sheep will flock in droves. What a country ! what a hobby ! lol
_______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[Deertick]

in the meantime, i intend to stay the heck off shelly's lawn.

:D

[JimStinson]

I only get items I want to sell authenticated, and most collectors have never heard of Jim, Travis, Richard, or Chris, therefore they want the item to have a PSA/DNA or JSA certificate. I don't like it but that's the way things are. The first thing they ask us who is the cert from? Without even examining the autograph! It sucks that its this way but it is what it is.

Side note - I love the SGC holder and wouldn't mind getting some of my signed cards slabbed. That's why I wanted to know how much it is.

If "most collectors" have never heard of Jim Stinson or Richard Simon its likely they have not been in this game too long. Pop quiz
1) Who were the original 4 consultants for PSA ?
2) Who was the consultant with the LEAST experience ?
3) Which consultant was a guest at Jim Stinson's wedding ? hint its the answer to #2
4) Is it important to you that the item have a COA or is REAL ?
and lastly if you think a COA is going to sell the item for you, REAL collectors ...REAL authenticators like the members who read this board are FAR smarter and informed than you think
________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[shelly]

All bull aside. This is just another place opening up for business. My question is why would the public accept them as people they should trust. They are not PSA or JSA . Global was a joke, why not them.
Jim and Rich might make jokes but who in the autograph authenticating world has any idea who they are. Every one on this site even David has respect for them, but what does it mean when your trying to sell something? Not anyone who is going to spend money or try and resell an item purchased from them.
Tell the truth if you had a piece authenticated by the above mentioned would you try and have it authenticated by PSA or JSA if and when you wanted to sell it?
If you had a great boxing piece would you send it to Travis. Not a chance in hell. This is all about money.:mad:

[cubsfan-budman]

All bull aside. This is just another place opening up for business. My question is why would the public accept them as people they should trust. They are not PSA or JSA . Global was a joke, why not them.
Jim and Rich might make jokes but who in the autograph authenticating world has any idea who they are. Every one on this site even David has respect for them, but what does it mean when your trying to sell something? Not anyone who is going to spend money or try and resell an item purchased from them.
Tell the truth if you had a piece authenticated by the above mentioned would you try and have it authenticated by PSA or JSA if and when you wanted to sell it?
If you had a great boxing piece would you send it to Travis. Not a chance in hell. This is all about money.:mad:

well, i think that it really depends on what your goals are when buying things. in general, i wait for someone to sell something on B/S/T or Richard or Jim's email blasts because i'm a collector, not a seller.

all i care about is if it is real. i dont give a crap whether i can sell it on ebay.

[jgmp123]

well, i think that it really depends on what your goals are when buying things. in general, i wait for someone to sell something on B/S/T or Richard or Jim's email blasts because i'm a collector, not a seller.

all i care about is if it is real. i dont give a crap whether i can sell it on ebay.


+1:)

[Deertick]

Not to burst your ego (like I even could ;) ), but..... "most collectors" don't know you guys from Adam. Just like they don't know *ANY* authenticator. But they put their money on the generally accepted belief (hope) that a TPA knows what they are doing. (Which feeds the scammers that have pretty holograms and websites).

Put another way: Let's say you are a seller of precious metals. You are a good merchant, possibly even the best. You always give your customers a fair price and good quality. But you measure gold composition in stinsons instead of karats. Your stinson may be identical to karats. Those who have done business with you, love your service and price. However, when they try to resell, they're going to have a hard time selling an 18 stinson gold chain without having to convert it to karats. For those in the know, easy sell. For the vast majority...not so much.

Disclaimer: I have not had any dealings with anyone mentioned thus far, including ANY TPA.

[HexsHeroes]

If "most collectors" have never heard of Jim Stinson or Richard Simon its likely they have not been in this game too long. Pop quiz
1) Who were the original 4 consultants for PSA ?
2) Who was the consultant with the LEAST experience ?
3) Which consultant was a guest at Jim Stinson's wedding ? hint its the answer to #2
4) Is it important to you that the item have a COA or is REAL ?
and lastly if you think a COA is going to sell the item for you, REAL collectors ...REAL authenticators like the members who read this board are FAR smarter and informed than you think
________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

. . . and say perhaps it was/could have been fellow autograph dealer Bill Corcoran ?

I'm only guessing BC just because of both of you had worked from Florida at one time or another, as well as co-hosted a hospitality room together at a Cleveland National, with Bob Feller as the visiting celebrity.

On a more serious note, I already feel that each and every one of my purchases from Jim Stinson, Richard Simon, Bill Corcoran, Ron Gordon, Doug Averitt, and Kevin Keating has come with a LOA (which may someday come in useful when the time comes to part with my collection); each came with a invoice written on company letterhead which I have saved. Nuf said.

[HOFAUTOS]

If "most collectors" have never heard of Jim Stinson or Richard Simon its likely they have not been in this game too long. Pop quiz
1) Who were the original 4 consultants for PSA ?
2) Who was the consultant with the LEAST experience ?
3) Which consultant was a guest at Jim Stinson's wedding ? hint its the answer to #2
4) Is it important to you that the item have a COA or is REAL ?
and lastly if you think a COA is going to sell the item for you, REAL collectors ...REAL authenticators like the members who read this board are FAR smarter and informed than you think
________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

I'm not an old school collector so most of those questions i couldn't answer. I've only been collecting autographs for 15 years. I am a member of 5 different hobby boards and when myself or someone else lists an autograph for sale, the first thing always asked is if it has a PSA/DNA or JSA cert, with the exception being on SCN where people trust my opinion and my money back guarantee. It helps that SCN is an actual autograph website with experienced collectors, where as the other sites are more on the card side. Like I said before, I only submit the items I want to sell to get authenticated, unless I'm listing them on SCN, but even then I still can't fully price on it compared to if it came with a cert.

I buy autographs all the time without certs. Heck I don't even own an autograph with a certificate, except for a few pack pulled autographs. I buy all my autographs on ebay and know they are the real deal.

[JasonD08]

I have read this thread and would like to chime in with my 2 cents for all its worth. I purchased a large lot of 60,000 signed cards from all sports from an original collection through the help of the most reputable dealer i know and one of the hobbies must trusted honest people. With that being said I have been scanning and listing for 2 years and still have not made a big dent in this unbelievable collection. Many expert collectors such as Olbermann, and a few others who have multiple complete sets have been my best customers. There is no doubt these are all 100% legit autos with most being acquired in person at sporting games, spring trainings, and other venues. Considering I have thousands of singles which include hall of famers, deceased, stars, and tough autos that value atleast $25 each or more, I have considered slabbing to maximize my profit. Here is my take:

PSA- I have been submitting regular unsigned vintage cards for awhile only to be disappointed in the lack of skilled grading. I have recently had PSA 5s go to trimmed, PSA 6(mc) go back to 6, a 4 to a 7 amongst other nonsense. With that being said I realize that PSA/DNA should maximize my value on my signed material. I called twice with follow ups to show interest in submitting 1000 cards lots for PSA DNA blue flip only to get ignored and calls not returned.

JSA- I called Spence recently to try to talk to him about possibly submitting a deal in bulk and have BGS slab them (like the holders) and got a different authenticator. I left my number and he never called me back nor did anyone else from the company. I was even referred to him by the reputable dealer who knows him personally.

My take is that PSA and JSA must be swamped with so much business that they do not need mine. I will give JSA benefit of the doubt for I bet Jimmy never even got my message, but still needs to know whats going on. PSA on the other hand has 0 customer service.

I think SGC can become a real player here if they step up and play their cards right. Auto original cards are becoming evermore red hot in this hobby and if they can give a good service to dealers and collectors alike for a reasonable price, (not $15 or $20 per card) then they can take alot of PSAs pie in time. JSA will most likely not be able to compete considering beckett gets their hand in the cookie jar. SGC MUST step up their promotional game, really plug this and step up the website etc. They must be ready and willing to give the collectors good deals and great service with this service and undercut the other 2 companies. Perhaps even a blue label vs. green or something to set them apart. I may give them a call tomorrow and see what they have in store and I would be willing to give them a try. Right now PSA has the market and there is no need to give service. I think competition of quality is healthy and SGC would be able to deliver if they push hard.


Jason

[shelly]

. . . and say perhaps it was/could have been fellow autograph dealer Bill Corcoran ?

I'm only guessing BC just because of both of you had worked from Florida at one time or another, as well as co-hosted a hospitality room together at a Cleveland National, with Bob Feller as the visiting celebrity.

On a more serious note, I already feel that each and every one of my purchases from Jim Stinson, Richard Simon, Bill Corcoran, Ron Gordon, Doug Averitt, and Kevin Keating has come with a LOA (which may someday come in useful when the time comes to part with my collection); each came with a invoice written on company letterhead which I have saved. Nuf said.

You are correct. I do have one question. All the above named people have authenticated your collection. God forbid you now need money and you want to sell this collection. Who would buy it with the names you mentioned on the cert. You cant sell it on Ebay no one has any idea who these people are. Now you go to an auction house who does know who they are.
What happens? You now pay twenty percent to have it authenticated by the same TPA's. Now the the two or three wonders of the autograph world now say it is not authentic. Who are you going to sell it to ?
I must make this very clear I would trust all the people named above more than any TPA. I am just trying to relate to you what the public thinks.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Shelly is right on the money. He could not have hit the nail on the head any better. The bottom line is that it's not what people that know autographs believe, it is the common rube that just wants to feel good about his purchase. Anybody that has collected and bought autographs over the years would feel very comfortable buying from any of the guys listed. Those are not the people we are talking about.

BUT, people are sticking their head in the sand if you do not believe that having the PSA of JSA cert increases the demand for your item. The only arguement is that does it increase the amount more than the cost you incur. It's just like saying that encapsulation / grading does not help or increase the sale of a card. It's an arguement that just doesn't hold merit.

[Leon]

Sounds like good marketing to me.

[HexsHeroes]

You are correct. I do have one question. All the above named people have authenticated your collection. God forbid you now need money and you want to sell this collection. Who would buy it with the names you mentioned on the cert. You cant sell it on Ebay no one has any idea who these people are. Now you go to an auction house who does know who they are.
What happens? You now pay twenty percent to have it authenticated by the same TPA's. Now the the two or three wonders of the autograph world now say it is not authentic. Who are you going to sell it to ?
I must make this very clear I would trust all the people named above more than any TPA. I am just trying to relate to you what the public thinks.

I often forget that as an autograph collector who's primary focus (for the past 10-15 years) has been on obtaining obscure ballplayer autographs, that I have marginally little in common with the majority of baseball autograph collectors requiring a TPA. That's why I enjoy this forum so much. Regardless of how main stream, or obscure an individual's collecting focus is, the contributions by all members make for interesting reading, learning, and community sharing.

[RichardSimon]

I have a couple of thousand people on my mailing list.
I have sold thousands of autographs through my mailing list. It is my main source of business.
Many members of Net54 are members of my list and many have bought great items and many have been disappointed by missing out on great items, sorry guys most things I have are only one of a kind and you have to be quicker on the trigger :).
In all the time that I have done this, I have only twice been asked if an item came with a TPA COA and that was from two totally new members of my list.
People who know me, know that I do not use TPA's and yet they have great trust in me.
The people who know me know that I would not try to sell an Ed "Delehanty" letter or try to sell two George W. Bush autopen letters that I had at the same time for easy comparison.
Find the experienced and knowledgeable dealers and auction houses and stick with them.

[shelly]

I have a couple of thousand people on my mailing list.
I have sold thousands of autographs through my mailing list. It is my main source of business.
Many members of Net54 are members of my list and many have bought great items and many have been disappointed by missing out on great items, sorry guys most things I have are only one of a kind and you have to be quicker on the trigger :).
In all the time that I have done this, I have only twice been asked if an item came with a TPA COA and that was from two totally new members of my list.
People who know me, know that I do not use TPA's and yet they have great trust in me.
The people who know me know that I would not try to sell an Ed "Delehanty" letter or try to sell two George W. Bush autopen letters that I had at the same time for easy comparison.
Find the experienced and knowledgeable dealers and auction houses and stick with them.

Richard no one is saying that be the people that you sell dont trust you. I am saying if they need to sell because of an emergency would they get the same money because of your cert or would they have to spend money on a new cert from one of the TPA or put it in an auction to get the price its worth.

[JimStinson]

Richard no one is saying that be the people that you sell dont trust you. I am saying if they need to sell because of an emergency would they get the same money because of your cert or would they have to spend money on a new cert from one of the TPA or put it in an auction to get the price its worth.

The answer to that question is simple, I buy collections ALL OF THE TIME that have been sold by me, or any of the other reputable dealers that have been mentioned here . Either from the original collector or their estates. I will occasionally ask to see a bill of sale but never a COA.
Most realize a substantial profit too over what they originally paid, especially over the span of the last 30, 20 or even 5 years.

And who better to sell to then the fellow that helped build your collection in the first place , lended free advice, gave opinions for free, and helped the collector avoid many of the hobby's horror stories.

In fact I recieve on average a collection or two a week and negotiate a deal. Maybe once a year I have to send a collection back because we can't agree on price but I honestly can't remember the last time I've ever had to send one back.
__________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[Big Six]

The answer to that question is simple, I buy collections ALL OF THE TIME that have been sold by me, or any of the other reputable dealers that have been mentioned here . Either from the original collector or their estates. I will occasionally ask to see a bill of sale but never a COA.
Most realize a substantial profit too over what they originally paid, especially over the span of the last 30, 20 or even 5 years.

And who better to sell to then the fellow that helped build your collection in the first place , lended free advice, gave opinions for free, and helped the collector avoid many of the hobby's horror stories.

In fact I recieve on average a collection or two a week and negotiate a deal. Maybe once a year I have to send a collection back because we can't agree on price but I honestly can't remember the last time I've ever had to send one back.
__________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

That's a great point, Jim. This thread had done a pretty good job making me feel awful about my autograph collection but what you wrote above makes me feel a lot better. And to think, it was a pretty obvious concept that I should have thought of myself...like Richard, keep up the good work!

PS...forgot to say thanks as I picked up a really nice Allie Reynolds from you a couple weeks back. Hope he gets in the Hall some day...great pitcher!

[travrosty]

All bull aside. This is just another place opening up for business. My question is why would the public accept them as people they should trust. They are not PSA or JSA . Global was a joke, why not them.
Jim and Rich might make jokes but who in the autograph authenticating world has any idea who they are. Every one on this site even David has respect for them, but what does it mean when your trying to sell something? Not anyone who is going to spend money or try and resell an item purchased from them.
Tell the truth if you had a piece authenticated by the above mentioned would you try and have it authenticated by PSA or JSA if and when you wanted to sell it?
If you had a great boxing piece would you send it to Travis. Not a chance in hell. This is all about money.:mad:



i always ask people do they want to get a cert from psa or jsa or find out if it is real? most just want the cert. i do have SMART PEOPLE who would send me stuff because they know other smart people would see my name on a cert and be confident it is real. i actually have a few who want to send me their stuff right now, because they want to know if it is real or not and why and an certification that is backed up by exemplars and evidence, and no secrets.

[travrosty]

Sounds like good marketing to me.

it only goes so far, good marketing, lousy customer service, in time that plan will fall flat on its face. it will take someone to make a major push and have transparency, customer service, be accountable to the customer.

for now it may be working because abc is the same as xyz. same pricing structure, same customer service, same coa, same authentication.

woolworths used to be the biggest store chain on the planet, and i am sure the owner thought it would never end. its ends sometime, everything does.

[travrosty]

I only get items I want to sell authenticated, and most collectors have never heard of Jim, Travis, Richard, or Chris, therefore they want the item to have a PSA/DNA or JSA certificate. I don't like it but that's the way things are. The first thing they ask us who is the cert from? Without even examining the autograph! It sucks that its this way but it is what it is.

Side note - I love the SGC holder and wouldn't mind getting some of my signed cards slabbed. That's why I wanted to know how much it is.



who is psa, what is psa's last name, does Jsa have a middle name?

i have never heard of the authenticators psa and jsa because authenticators are people and those are names of companies.

[travrosty]

I would much rather give anyone on your list my business but when I go to sell at a show I show the cert or mention a name and they say "Oh so it's not PSA?"... So frustrating... :(

you have to educate them. tell them, "well let me introduce you to" ...

get a resume and reference sheet from those people and hand it out at the shows when they ask who they are.

counter with "who is psa"? "who is jsa?" which individual authenticated the psa or jsa item you are interested in. if they can't tell you, explain it to them, ask them "why do you trust the name psa or jsa when you do know who looked at it? hand out sheets with some of very bad mistakes they have made, and ask those people if they feel comfortable with those authentications.

[drc]

My guess is that when and if SGC starts authenticating autographs officially, they will say who are their authenticators. Until then, some of us are arguing about an event before it has (or hasn't) happened.

[Runscott]

hand out sheets with some of very bad mistakes they have made, and ask those people if they feel comfortable with those authentications.

I'm surprised that you haven't created such 'sheets', in pdf format so that you can more easily advertise your personal disdain for these companies. If it's all true, I don't see what your concern might be, and now that you are recommending that others do it, I REALLY can't see what your concern would be.

SOGOTP

[Mr. Zipper]

I'm surprised that you haven't created such 'sheets', in pdf format so that you can more easily advertise your personal disdain for these companies. If it's all true, I don't see what your concern might be, and now that you are recommending that others do it, I REALLY can't see what your concern would be.

SOGOTP

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq131/byrnesry/Smilies/HominaI.jpg

[RichardSimon]

i always ask people do they want to get a cert from psa or jsa or find out if it is real? most just want the cert. i do have SMART PEOPLE who would send me stuff because they know other smart people would see my name on a cert and be confident it is real. i actually have a few who want to send me their stuff right now, because they want to know if it is real or not and why and an certification that is backed up by exemplars and evidence, and no secrets.

I have been told, by good sources, that dealers, including those who are big ebay sellers, know that an item is not good but it has a TPA cert and that is all they care about. Knowing it is not good they still go ahead and sell it.
It has a plastic tomb and a cert,,, it is good to go :(.
I have been told that this is the case but no evidence was shown to me to back up this story.

[JimStinson]

The blind leading the blind.....Kick it Ray !
"What'd I Say"
_____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[HRBAKER]

I don't really think it is too much to ask to know the name of the EXPERT whose opinion you are paying for. Just seems like so much common sense to me.

[JimStinson]

I don't really think it is too much to ask to know the name of the EXPERT whose opinion you are paying for. Just seems like so much common sense to me.

Was able to secure a photo of one of the "experts"......Common sense ??? what in the world is common sense ?
________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[HRBAKER]

"Pay no attention to the little man behind the curtain."

[Plinvestments]

who is psa, what is psa's last name, does Jsa have a middle name?

i have never heard of the authenticators psa and jsa because authenticators are people and those are names of companies.

Which mutual funds do you own? Most people can name the fund, not the fund manager. The reputation of the company is the most important. People are always replaceable. PSA and JSA hire folks who they trust won't tarnish their reputation. If they do harm, they would be replaced. They survive and built a market because their level of expertise is pretty good. That means they get it right most of the time. In this world where we rely on the opinions of others in almost all aspects of our lives, right most of the time is all one can really expect.

[travrosty]

I have been told, by good sources, that dealers, including those who are big ebay sellers, know that an item is not good but it has a TPA cert and that is all they care about. Knowing it is not good they still go ahead and sell it.
It has a plastic tomb and a cert,,, it is good to go :(.
I have been told that this is the case but no evidence was shown to me to back up this story.



there are collectors here that do that. i have been told that despite the evidence presented, that spence certed it and thats all they care about.

the oscar bonavena on ebay right now was returned by the first bidder who won it and returned it due to the fact its no good, even though it has a psa cert. the dealer relisted it. it has a psa cert by the way. who cares what the people with 20 or 30 years boxing autograph experience have to say about it.

some guy at psa who saw "Rocky" 5 times said it was good, so it must be.

i know there are people out there who know some of there stuff is no good, but sell it anyway due to the fact they won the "cert lottery"

the james corbett that was no good has a jsa cert and the holyfield slabbed card has a psa cert, and we presented the facts and those owners still love their psa and jsa certed autographs.

[Deertick]

I'm beginning to hope PSA certed Travis' birth certificate.

[travrosty]

Which mutual funds do you own? Most people can name the fund, not the fund manager. The reputation of the company is the most important. People are always replaceable. PSA and JSA hire folks who they trust won't tarnish their reputation. If they do harm, they would be replaced. They survive and built a market because their level of expertise is pretty good. That means they get it right most of the time. In this world where we rely on the opinions of others in almost all aspects of our lives, right most of the time is all one can really expect.



this statement is wrong on so many levels, its ridiculous.

psa and jsa dont hire people who know autographs to authenticate, they hire them for marketing purposes. psa hires autograph runners who are well connected into the ebay and storefront markets, not for their experience in knowing and authenticating autographs.

these people they hire are connected into the "on the street" market and have many contacts and psa wants them to bring in business. knowing the autograph is secondary.

steve grad "in person autograph runner"
zach rullo "in person autograph runner"
kevin low "in person autograph runner"
brian sobrero " in person autograph runner" who once tripped tiger woods and sprained tiger's knee due to over-aggresive pursuit of woods autograph.



thse guys are not replaced. wny? because the customers are not aware they are doing harm. its a "trust me, i know what i am doing and that autograph is (good/no good)",

there is no auditing function. a money market fund has hard outcomes that are quantifiable, you either lose money or make it, and decide to change funds. that is why you dont have to know the name of the fund manager, he will be retained or fired based on their results.

now people will say that psa and jsa are doing a good job because the autographs are accepted on ebay and auction houses. but they are erroneously assuming that auction houses and ebay know good autographs from bad. they say that because others accept the certs, that they must be good. but others say the same thing. It's a case of both parties relying on the others acceptance to justify how good the tpa is doing, but neither is doing any inspection, it's circular logic, but no meat in the sandwich.

name a customer of psa and jsa who quantifies the results of the authentications they get and decides to continue with that company based on that? no one does. it's quite the opposite, many people tell me that they know psa and jsa aren't very good, but ebay accepts the certs and it is what others want so they just go along with the "Game".

i have said all along you can either get a psa or jsa cert, or you can find out if the autograph is real.


the customer doesnt really know if that autograph is good or bad if it has a psa or jsa cert. they are just going along with what psa or jsa says. there is no consumer reports for autographs that can compare, audit, and give results.

psa and jsa expertise is NOT pretty good. it is lacking in many areas. Pretty good is not good enough. Getting it right MOST of the time is not good enough.

51% accuracy is good enough? That's most of the time.

flipping a coin is 50%, and it's free. they need to be right all the time minus a very miniscule amount of human error. obviously you havent seen the nine trillion examples we have been posting over the last 4 years.

i hope you expect more competancy from your gas line installer, your brake mechanic, your day care provider.

[Big Dave]

+1

[Plinvestments]

this statement is wrong on so many levels, its ridiculous.

psa and jsa dont hire people who know autographs to authenticate, they hire them for marketing purposes. psa hires autograph runners who are well connected into the ebay and storefront markets, not for their experience in knowing and authenticating autographs.

these people they hire are connected into the "on the street" market and have many contacts and psa wants them to bring in business. knowing the autograph is secondary.

steve grad "in person autograph runner"
zach rullo "in person autograph runner"
kevin low "in person autograph runner"
brian sobrero " in person autograph runner" who once tripped tiger woods and sprained tiger's knee due to over-aggresive pursuit of woods autograph.



thse guys are not replaced. wny? because the customers are not aware they are doing harm. its a "trust me, i know what i am doing and that autograph is (good/no good)",

there is no auditing function. a money market fund has hard outcomes that are quantifiable, you either lose money or make it, and decide to change funds. that is why you dont have to know the name of the fund manager, he will be retained or fired based on their results.

now people will say that psa and jsa are doing a good job because the autographs are accepted on ebay and auction houses. but they are erroneously assuming that auction houses and ebay know good autographs from bad. they say that because others accept the certs, that they must be good. but others say the same thing. It's a case of both parties relying on the others acceptance to justify how good the tpa is doing, but neither is doing any inspection, it's circular logic, but no meat in the sandwich.

name a customer of psa and jsa who quantifies the results of the authentications they get and decides to continue with that company based on that? no one does. it's quite the opposite, many people tell me that they know psa and jsa aren't very good, but ebay accepts the certs and it is what others want so they just go along with the "Game".

i have said all along you can either get a psa or jsa cert, or you can find out if the autograph is real.


the customer doesnt really know if that autograph is good or bad if it has a psa or jsa cert. they are just going along with what psa or jsa says. there is no consumer reports for autographs that can compare, audit, and give results.

psa and jsa expertise is NOT pretty good. it is lacking in many areas. Pretty good is not good enough. Getting it right MOST of the time is not good enough.

51% accuracy is good enough? That's most of the time.

flipping a coin is 50%, and it's free. they need to be right all the time minus a very miniscule amount of human error. obviously you havent seen the nine trillion examples we have been posting over the last 4 years.

i hope you expect more competancy from your gas line installer, your brake mechanic, your day care provider.

We agree to disagree on the level of competence of the tpas. Are you saying psa or jsa is equal to global or morales or ace? For the shear number of autos they look at, their record is pretty good, probably over 95%. You're saying they are wrong half the time? There are 781 psa mantles. Pick out the 380 that you think they got wrong.

[David Atkatz]

Will people please stop comparing PSA and JSA with Morales, et.al.?
PSA and JSA actually try to authenticate. They're just not that good at it.
Morales and his ilk are NOT authenticators. They give an automatic thumbs-up to everything. They are very good ta what they do. And what they do is defraud the public.

[cubsfan-budman]

i know know about my mutual funds, but this thread continues to pay dividends!

/popcorn!

[Sean1125]

I've had an item authenticated by PSA that JSA told me was traced over.

(Original Collection--->JSA (NG)--->PSA (issues full Loa))

[markf31]

the customer doesnt really know if that autograph is good or bad if it has a psa or jsa cert. they are just going along with what psa or jsa says.

But that's the case when most and certainly the large majority of customers buy autographs from anyone. Most buyers don't know how to tell a good autograph from a bad one, thats why they rely on the opinions of others. I trust Jim, Richard, Kevin, etc... but at the end of the day, when I purchase an auotgraph from them I'm simply "going along with what they say"...because I trust them completely.

[shelly]

The bottom line is that if you do not have a cert by the top tpa's you will not sell at the same price from all of our beloved experts on this site. If anyone of you can show me where I a wrong I will donate 20 dollars to what ever fund Leon has.
I am not talking about keeping an item I am only talking about selling to any of the top auction houses. The only[person that might not care is Josh Evans because he will replace it with his own. The rest of them will not accept a cert from our guys. RandR , Robert Edwards. Memory Lane. Hunt, you name them and show me on cert from anyone but they should not be named:(
It cant be on piece. It must be understood that I trust these guys more than the others but when it comes down to the money it does not count. You can trust to get their opinion but you can not sell and opinion from them.

[Runscott]

Most buyers don't know how to tell a good autograph from a bad one, thats why they rely on the opinions of others.

Mark, you make a very good point. This is exactly why the hobby NEEDS authenticators. But you STILL have to do your research, either yourself on the signature, or on the authenticators.

Edited - removed the argumentative part :)

[drc]

In any area of collecting, asking for the opinions and input from others is important-- whether the other is a museum curator or just a fellow collecting friend nextdoor who has some experience in the area. There's nothing wrong per se with a PSA or JSA LOA-- as long as you treat it as an opinion and not as gospel.

[JimStinson]

The bottom line is that if you do not have a cert by the top tpa's you will not sell at the same price from all of our beloved experts on this site. If anyone of you can show me where I a wrong I will donate 20 dollars to what ever fund Leon has.
I am not talking about keeping an item I am only talking about selling to any of the top auction houses. The only[person that might not care is Josh Evans because he will replace it with his own. The rest of them will not accept a cert from our guys. RandR , Robert Edwards. Memory Lane. Hunt, you name them and show me on cert from anyone but they should not be named:(
It cant be on piece. It must be understood that I trust these guys more than the others but when it comes down to the money it does not count. You can trust to get their opinion but you can not sell and opinion from them.

I really am not being sarcastic or trying to be funny but are you saying that if someone whos estate or collection with a value of oh lets say $100,000 and consists of ...oh lets say 19th century autograph rarities and they send them to a reputable and reasonably intelligent auction house or dealer that they will refuse to buy or sell them based on the fact they do not have a COA ????
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[travrosty]

I really am not being sarcastic or trying to be funny but are you saying that if someone whos estate or collection with a value of oh lets say $100,000 and consists of ...oh lets say 19th century autograph rarities and they send them to a reputable and reasonably intelligent auction house or dealer that they will refuse to buy or sell them based on the fact they do not have a COA ????
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com



+1

the good stuff doesnt need the certs, people can think for themselves. how DOES leland's stay in business?

[David Atkatz]

In any area of collecting, asking for the opinions and input from others is important-- whether the other is a museum curator or just a fellow collecting friend nextdoor who has some experience in the area. There's nothing wrong per se with a PSA or JSA LOA-- as long as you treat it as an opinion and not as gospel.Except that it is treated as gospel. The majority of "collectors" won't buy anything that doesn't have a PSA or JSA CoA, and will buy anything that does.

[HRBAKER]

The Third Party certs make it easy for the AHs to wash their
hands of any potential issues. Make it easy for them to pose
as nothing but a conduit. Hence they love them, that and plus
it makes the items more liquid.

[Runscott]

Except that it is treated as gospel. The majority of "collectors" won't buy anything that doesn't have a PSA or JSA CoA, and will buy anything that does.

Isn't that mainly just true of flippers or re-sellers? When I buy a 'permanent' piece for my collection, I don't care whether or not it has a COA. It's nice if it does, but that won't affect what I'm willing to pay.

And that's true of at least one other collector on this board. I recently sold a handwritten Walter Johnson letter to him and forgot to even mention the PSA/DNA COA. I found it yesterday while cleaning out a drawer - had forgotten it had come with one.

[David Atkatz]

Isn't that mainly just true of flippers or re-sellers? When I buy a 'permanent' piece for my collection, I don't care whether or not it has a COA. It's nice if it does, but that won't affect what I'm willing to pay.

And that's true of at least one other collector on this board. I recently sold a handwritten Walter Johnson letter to him and forgot to even mention the PSA/DNA COA. I found it yesterday while cleaning out a drawer - had forgotten it had come with one.Scott, that's why "collectors" was in quotes. the majority of them are not on this board. Howe many autograph collectors are here? One hundred or so?
Hardly enough to keep JSA and PSA in business.

[shelly]

I really am not being sarcastic or trying to be funny but are you saying that if someone whos estate or collection with a value of oh lets say $100,000 and consists of ...oh lets say 19th century autograph rarities and they send them to a reputable and reasonably intelligent auction house or dealer that they will refuse to buy or sell them based on the fact they do not have a COA ????
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

I am saying that the auction house will not use your coa but that of Jsa and Psa to make more money. Is this not ture?

[JimStinson]

The Third Party certs make it easy for the AHs to wash their
hands of any potential issues. Make it easy for them to pose
as nothing but a conduit. Hence they love them, that and plus
it makes the items more liquid.

This man just condensed 10 hours of truth into a couple sentences ....Its inarguable.
Now let me say something that pales in comparision BUT should be said only because of the inevitable rebutals and that is THIS...

I like to play cards ....according to the "Book of Hoyle" which is the card players bible so to speak the rule is "THE CARDS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES" which means when I lay down my cards and say I have a straight but in reality I have a STRAIGHT FLUSH , Then if I call it an elephant or giraffe or whatever I call it ....the cards still speak for themselves , it is what it is regardless of what I or anyone else calls it ...it is what it is , The CARDS speak for themselves
_____________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[shelly]

+1

the good stuff doesnt need the certs, people can think for themselves. how DOES leland's stay in business?
Travis you hate them so what ever you say is biased. I am trying to say that your coa compared to the jsa's will not get the same money or they will have yours cert changed to theirs if it is an auction house. Six out of the top Seven houses use those guys. There must be a reason:confused:

[JimStinson]

I am saying that the auction house will not use your coa but that of Jsa and Psa to make more money. Is this not ture?

Shelly are you posting from Jamaica ? tell the truth :)
What I am saying is that a reputable dealer with an untarnished reputation will sell autographs for MORE money based on their consistant performance of excellence and customer service for MORE than a seller that is flailing around blindly in the dark and needs to rely or worse throw off responsibility to another party , whatever they call themselves. To quote one of my previous posts THE CARDS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES no one is going to turn away a substantial collection based on COA's or TPA's or whatever you want to call them. And I SINCERELY hope you are correct because if thats the case I have just recieved a MASSIVE pay increase :):D
Friend JIM
______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[shelly]

Jim, I only wished I was in Jamaica , but I am talking reality.I will say this one more time a Psa Mantle, vs. your cert or Richards who is going to get more money. You must be smoking bad Jamaican weed.
Tell me any auction house that will use your cert vs. Psa.
You know I am telling the truth. Why am I the bad guy?:confused:

[JimStinson]

Jim, I only wished I was in Jamaica , but I am talking reality.I will say this one more time a Psa Mantle, vs. your cert or Richards who is going to get more money. You must be smoking bad Jamaican weed.
Tell me any auction house that will use your cert vs. Psa.
You know I am telling the truth. Why am I the bad guy?:confused:

Well ...I don;t know how to answer that question because almost 100% of the autographs I offer on my e-mail updates sell within 48 hours , so I don;t really need to use an auction house , what would I send them? AIR ? I monitor auction results all of the time , I work 15 hours a day 7 days a week.
So while I don;t "Mill around smartly" at card shows I have a pretty good handle on what things should and shouldn't sell for and I don;t smoke weed , jamaician or otherwise but I do love a cold beer from time to time , Now what were you saying ?
__________________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[shelly]

The subject has nothing to do with who you are and how and what your reputation is. It is about fact no matter how good you are you can not compete against the tpa
I have no idea why you want to argue. I have all the respect in the world for you but this is not about you your ego. It is a fact.

If I had enough money so that no matter what happens my kids and wife would be taken care of no matter what I would buy from any of the people that we have talked about . I am saying if God forbids and I do need the money and the not to mentioned people decide that it is not real. What is that autograph worth with your cert. Or even if it is real can you get more money with your cert versus theirs ? Not a chance in hell.
You can tell me your background and everything you have ever sold. Tell me if anyone other than a true collector has any idea who you are. Jim Utah is a strange place but if needed I can set you up for a good piece of Jamaican pie.

This has nothing to do with facts it all has to do with deception.
Just put up a site and ask who would they want a cert from if they really had to sell something.

[mr2686]

Well ...I don;t know how to answer that question because almost 100% of the autographs I offer on my e-mail updates sell within 48 hours ,__________________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Boy, that's the truth. Jim is the only reason I have email alerts coming to my phone so I don't miss out.

[Big Dave]

If their autograph business gets off the ground, and they get on eBay's approved authentication list, I hope it is not the same good old boy type of authentication company. The kind of company where a lot of it depends on who you know, and how much business you do with that company. Happens to often.

[Leon]

Scott, that's why "collectors" was in quotes. the majority of them are not on this board. Howe many autograph collectors are here? One hundred or so?
Hardly enough to keep JSA and PSA in business.

There might be 100 active participants but there are a lot of folks watching...This is a 30 day running total......still not enough to keep the TPG's in business but a few more than a hundred....

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[RichardSimon]

The kind of company where a lot if it depends on who you know, and how much business you do with that company. Happens to often.

Don't be shy Dave, tell us what you think :):).
What are you implying ?? :):).

[Forever Young]

We agree to disagree on the level of competence of the tpas. Are you saying psa or jsa is equal to global or morales or ace? For the shear number of autos they look at, their record is pretty good, probably over 95%. You're saying they are wrong half the time? There are 781 psa mantles. Pick out the 380 that you think they got wrong.

Agreed. Silliness.

[Mr. Zipper]

I don't see why so many turn this into an all or nothing scenario. Can't we like both Jim, Richard and the credible TPAs?

I am usually pretty comfortable with authenticating the material I buy myself. But sometimes I want something and don't have the time, energy or desire to study the signature for months to develop a sound level of expertise in it. Maybe I want a Hideki Irabu signed photo and really don't feel like becoming a Hideki Irabu expert in the process... I just want the damn photo to put in my collection and move on. It doesn't make me a bad guy -- it makes me like 99% of collectors. And this is where dealers and TPAs come into play.

Of course I would prefer to patronize a longtime and reputable seller like Richard or Jim first, and if I bought from them I would have a high degree of confidence in their offerings.

But let me ask... when was the last time Richard or Jim had a Derek Jeter bat? What about an Albert Pujols ball? What about that Hideki Irabu SP... Jim can you help?

No dealer -- or small group of dealers -- is the complete solution unless you have a very tight focus.

Despite the claims of some, in my opinion, PSA and JSA are highly accurate in most cases. Certainly there are areas where they could likely improve. But they are a reliable opinion in the vast majority of cases. I would buy a Derek Jeter bat from eBay with a PSA or JSA cert with full confidence. With Mantle, Williams, Maris and DiMaggio, I can't recall ever seeing them cert a clunker. I could go on, but you get the point.

Now, if I hit the lottery and wanted to invest in a Babe Ruth single signed ball, I would not rely on anyone's sole opinion. In all due respect, if I bought one from Jim, I'd ask for a second opinion from Richard and vice-versa. If it had a TPA letter, I'd get second opinions too. This just seems to be common sense with a high value / high risk item.


* In the interest of full disclosure, I am the space consultant for JSA. I have examined hundreds of items for them and give every one my best thinking and effort. I have never been rushed, influenced to opine one way or another and I am never told who the submitter is.

[Runscott]

Steve, the problem is that we each have had differing personal experiences.

I've seen people here bash authenticators who I have a lot of faith in. When I say 'faith', I mean that I think they get most stuff correct, and if I ever had a problem, they would listen to it and make things right.

On the other hand, I questioned a pre-cert from another authenticator and got blown off. I will still buy things that have their name associated with it, but I have to be able to authenticate it myself;i.e-their LOA's are completely worthless to me. Doesn't mean they are intentionally dishonest - rather that they are slipshod and don't appear to be concerned with their customers.

[Duluth Eskimo]

I don't see why so many turn this into an all or nothing scenario. Can't we like both Jim, Richard and the credible TPAs?

I am usually pretty comfortable with authenticating the material I buy myself. But sometimes I want something and don't have the time, energy or desire to study the signature for months to develop a sound level of expertise in it. Maybe I want a Hideki Irabu signed photo and really don't feel like becoming a Hideki Irabu expert in the process... I just want the damn photo to put in my collection and move on. It doesn't make me a bad guy -- it makes me like 99% of collectors. And this is where dealers and TPAs come into play.

Of course I would prefer to patronize a longtime and reputable seller like Richard or Jim first, and if I bought from them I would have a high degree of confidence in their offerings.

But let me ask... when was the last time Richard or Jim had a Derek Jeter bat? What about an Albert Pujols ball? What about that Hideki Irabu SP... Jim can you help?

No dealer -- or small group of dealers -- is the complete solution unless you have a very tight focus.

Despite the claims of some, in my opinion, PSA and JSA are highly accurate in most cases. Certainly there are areas where they could likely improve. But they are a reliable opinion in the vast majority of cases. I would buy a Derek Jeter bat from eBay with a PSA or JSA cert with full confidence. With Mantle, Williams, Maris and DiMaggio, I can't recall ever seeing them cert a clunker. I could go on, but you get the point.

Now, if I hit the lottery and wanted to invest in a Babe Ruth single signed ball, I would not rely on anyone's sole opinion. In all due respect, if I bought one from Jim, I'd ask for a second opinion from Richard and vice-versa. If it had a TPA letter, I'd get second opinions too. This just seems to be common sense with a high value / high risk item.


* In the interest of full disclosure, I am the space consultant for JSA. I have examined hundreds of items for them and give every one my best thinking and effort. I have never been rushed, influenced to opine one way or another and I am never told who the submitter is.

This is well said and hits the nail on the head. Is also support what Shelly was saying. Why do people get so angry? IT'S AN OPINION, not the end all be all.

You have some people that act like people are saying their opinion is not as good as PSA or JSA. That's not the case either. You have others that, who the hell knows what they are talking about. Bottom line is that what Shelly said is exactly right.

As for Mr Stinson and Mr Simon. I think it's pretty much established that you both are experts in your field, but as the previous person mentioned what if I want golf or football or some other sport that you may not carry. One cannot always rely on one dealer. Nor should those people be limited to selling their items back to you if they can get more for it with a PSA letter.

Also, Jim and Richard already had their businesses well established before PSA was was created, try establishishing an autograph business nowadays without third party authentication. It would be very hard to do and I think most people would agree with that.

I read a lot of these threads and WAY too many take peoples opinions WAY too seriously. Including myself at times. Bottom line is people are free to do whatever they want and it doesn't make them a bad person or a stupid collector.

[HexsHeroes]

I don't see why so many turn this into an all or nothing scenario. Can't we like both Jim, Richard and the credible TPAs?

.


I have been collecting vintage baseball autographs just long enough to have purchased items from James Spence III back when he was considered (by some of his peers) as one of the "good guys" who's experience and opinion you could trust. Makes me wonder if the evolution of JSA could have been guided differently, and if so, would it have made any difference with how JSA is preceived today?

[thecatspajamas]

One thing that I think Shelly was getting at this seems to be misconstrued is that he is not talking about Jim or Richard themselves getting good money for the autographs they handle, but rather the next guy down the line realizing top dollar for that same auto when the collector goes to re-sell it. The Collector re-selling the autograph is most likely not going to have the same loyal customer base that Jim and Richard do, and unless Jim and Richard allow the collector to tap into their mailing list when it comes time to sell, they may have trouble connecting with those same customers they fought with to buy the piece in the first place. So it's really not fair to equate what Joe Collector can get for a given auto with Jim or Richard's blessing with what Jim or Richard could get for the same auto themselves. It may work out that way in some cases, but I would wager that in most, Jim or Richard will be able to get more for the same piece selling it themselves than if Joe Collector sold the same piece with a cert from Jim or Richard.

Shelly, feel free to nix all of that if that's not what you were getting at, but it seemed to me there were some crossed wires there.

[Runscott]

.


I have been collecting vintage baseball autographs just long enough to have purchased items from James Spence III back when he was considered (by some of his peers) as one of the "good guys" who's experience and opinion you could trust. Makes me wonder if the evolution of JSA could have been guided differently, and if so, would it have made any difference with how JSA is preceived today?

What does it take to be a "good guy" ?

What are your complaints? Have you voiced them to JSA? What was their response?

:confused:

This forum is why I got back in to autographs - the passion, interest and good stories rubbed off on me. But there is a lot of stuff posted in here that really leaves me scratching my head.

[shelly]

The real way to end this is to have. Jim and Richard start there own company. They probably know everyone and anyone who is a specialist in all the areas they are not. That will give us the best of all worlds.I know there cost will be fair and maybe even better than the other people out there. Just think. They then could be insulted by Travis. He needs someone new to pick on. Unless of course they use him for boxing.:eek::D

[travrosty]

This is well said and hits the nail on the head. Is also support what Shelly was saying. Why do people get so angry? IT'S AN OPINION, not the end all be all.

You have some people that act like people are saying their opinion is not as good as PSA or JSA. That's not the case either. You have others that, who the hell knows what they are talking about. Bottom line is that what Shelly said is exactly right.

As for Mr Stinson and Mr Simon. I think it's pretty much established that you both are experts in your field, but as the previous person mentioned what if I want golf or football or some other sport that you may not carry. One cannot always rely on one dealer. Nor should those people be limited to selling their items back to you if they can get more for it with a PSA letter.

Also, Jim and Richard already had their businesses well established before PSA was was created, try establishishing an autograph business nowadays without third party authentication. It would be very hard to do and I think most people would agree with that.

I read a lot of these threads and WAY too many take peoples opinions WAY too seriously. Including myself at times. Bottom line is people are free to do whatever they want and it doesn't make them a bad person or a stupid collector.


who is the football expert at psa, jsa? then why do you feel comfortable sending it in to them if you dont know????

why give richard a jim grief for not being experts at everything when you cant tell me who the football expert is at psa or jsa, yet you feel comfortable sending your football stuff in?

please tell me who looks at your football stuff and who authenticates it? is it the guy who signs off on the LOA "on behalf" of the team? who looked at it? YOU DONT KNOW!! Then why do you feel comfortable with them, you don't even know if they have a football expert.

wake up people!

[travrosty]

I don't see why so many turn this into an all or nothing scenario. Can't we like both Jim, Richard and the credible TPAs?

I am usually pretty comfortable with authenticating the material I buy myself. But sometimes I want something and don't have the time, energy or desire to study the signature for months to develop a sound level of expertise in it. Maybe I want a Hideki Irabu signed photo and really don't feel like becoming a Hideki Irabu expert in the process... I just want the damn photo to put in my collection and move on. It doesn't make me a bad guy -- it makes me like 99% of collectors. And this is where dealers and TPAs come into play.

Of course I would prefer to patronize a longtime and reputable seller like Richard or Jim first, and if I bought from them I would have a high degree of confidence in their offerings.

But let me ask... when was the last time Richard or Jim had a Derek Jeter bat? What about an Albert Pujols ball? What about that Hideki Irabu SP... Jim can you help?

No dealer -- or small group of dealers -- is the complete solution unless you have a very tight focus.

Despite the claims of some, in my opinion, PSA and JSA are highly accurate in most cases. Certainly there are areas where they could likely improve. But they are a reliable opinion in the vast majority of cases. I would buy a Derek Jeter bat from eBay with a PSA or JSA cert with full confidence. With Mantle, Williams, Maris and DiMaggio, I can't recall ever seeing them cert a clunker. I could go on, but you get the point.

Now, if I hit the lottery and wanted to invest in a Babe Ruth single signed ball, I would not rely on anyone's sole opinion. In all due respect, if I bought one from Jim, I'd ask for a second opinion from Richard and vice-versa. If it had a TPA letter, I'd get second opinions too. This just seems to be common sense with a high value / high risk item.


* In the interest of full disclosure, I am the space consultant for JSA. I have examined hundreds of items for them and give every one my best thinking and effort. I have never been rushed, influenced to opine one way or another and I am never told who the submitter is.



Do you thinkg Spence and Grad spend months studying every single signature they opine on? You are delusional! They authenticate thousands of different sigs, and how do they spend MONTHS on each one studying in order to be competent on each of those autographs? They can't, but why do you think they are experts at all of those then? Did they spend months studying terry bradshaw, then olga corbett, then laurent fignon, then soupy sales. C'mon!

They are not highly accurate, if they were, there wouldnt be a zillion joe louis autograph 'paperwieghts" out there with both psa and jsa authentication on them. what a joke!

I showed a run of 141 bad ali autographs from abc corp. how is that HIGHLY ACCURATE???? Would 141 nearly consecutive bad neil armstrong signatures impress you? Would they still be HIGHLY accurate? Or do you just not care because its a signature from a sport that is not YOUR favorite? What if it was? wouldn't you think they are ruining your beloved hobby? Of course you would. Grad and Spence should be ashamed of themselves for what they pass having no business even opining on them.

How can they be 'experts' at 20,000 different names and dozens of different sports and entertainment categories. They CAN'T that's how. JSA says to send in your Brazilian soccer league autographs. I suppose they brushed up on their Brazilian soccer autographs? Hell no! They must be big Brazilian soccer fans from way back over there at JSA. Guys who job it was to put the JSA sticker on the item are now authenticators. they got a promotion and now THEY are the big experts too. Nobody ever heard of these guys. It takes decades of experience, not putting the stickers on for a couple of years.

AGAIN, WHAT A JOKE!

[Runscott]

The real way to end this is to have. Jim and Richard start there own company. They probably know everyone and anyone who is a specialist in all the areas they are not. That will give us the best of all worlds.I know there cost will be fair and maybe even better than the other people out there. Just think. They then could be insulted by Travis. He needs someone new to pick on. Unless of course they use him for boxing.:eek::D

It's funny you say this. I was wondering who on this board would pay one of the major autograph slip sellers to authenticate anything. I could see paying one of the respected authenticators on this board for their opinion, and I would do so if I had to re-sell something that was very obscure, but pay for a 'slab and slip'?

Do any of you do that?

[JimStinson]

I don't see why so many turn this into an all or nothing scenario. Can't we like both Jim, Richard and the credible TPAs?

I am usually pretty comfortable with authenticating the material I buy myself. But sometimes I want something and don't have the time, energy or desire to study the signature for months to develop a sound level of expertise in it. Maybe I want a Hideki Irabu signed photo and really don't feel like becoming a Hideki Irabu expert in the process... I just want the damn photo to put in my collection and move on. It doesn't make me a bad guy -- it makes me like 99% of collectors. And this is where dealers and TPAs come into play.

Of course I would prefer to patronize a longtime and reputable seller like Richard or Jim first, and if I bought from them I would have a high degree of confidence in their offerings.

But let me ask... when was the last time Richard or Jim had a Derek Jeter bat? What about an Albert Pujols ball? What about that Hideki Irabu SP... Jim can you help?

No dealer -- or small group of dealers -- is the complete solution unless you have a very tight focus.

Despite the claims of some, in my opinion, PSA and JSA are highly accurate in most cases. Certainly there are areas where they could likely improve. But they are a reliable opinion in the vast majority of cases. I would buy a Derek Jeter bat from eBay with a PSA or JSA cert with full confidence. With Mantle, Williams, Maris and DiMaggio, I can't recall ever seeing them cert a clunker. I could go on, but you get the point.

Now, if I hit the lottery and wanted to invest in a Babe Ruth single signed ball, I would not rely on anyone's sole opinion. In all due respect, if I bought one from Jim, I'd ask for a second opinion from Richard and vice-versa. If it had a TPA letter, I'd get second opinions too. This just seems to be common sense with a high value / high risk item.


* In the interest of full disclosure, I am the space consultant for JSA. I have examined hundreds of items for them and give every one my best thinking and effort. I have never been rushed, influenced to opine one way or another and I am never told who the submitter is.

Very well put & excellent point, We are discussing opinions and when it comes to opinions EVERYONE can be right and EVERYONE can be wrong. Sometimes all at the same time. :)

For a long time everyone thought the earth was flat or that the sun revolves around the earth, I would imagine that when this was proven as wrong it probably ticked off alot of people ....ESPECIALLY THE MAP MAKERS

But in business everyone IS and SHOULD be allowed to spend their money however they like , where ever they like. And when it comes to business the one constant is IF SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING RIGHT they stay in business , If not they fail.

With regards to PSA they have been around awhile so they must be doing SOMETHING right , I know some of the people that are involved with them and personally I like them.

JSA ....same thing they have stayed in business because enough people like what they do to keep them in business. I know some of the people that work for them and I like them , Including Jimmie himself..who I've hoisted more than a few beers with over the years.

With regards to the new SGC authentication which started this thread. I wish them nothing but the best, I spoke with the fellow thats going to be their lead authenticator on the phone a couple days ago and although we've never met he sounds like a nice guy , that sincerely wants to do the right thing.

So there is plenty of room for everyone to co exist and get along, and have opinions. The real test in the end is like ....Darwin's Evolution of Species.....If it works it fourishes and grows , if it dosen;t it goes. That applies to business as it does in nature and also applies to third party authenticators , dealers, restaurants, auto mechanics, You name it.
There is alot of good natured banter here and I like it, Have communicated with some likeable people as a result of my participation here that I otherwise would have never crossed paths with and for that I'm greatful.

No reason on earth why everyone can't have their opinions and still get along
_________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[thecatspajamas]

Just got this in an e-mail:

[Plinvestments]

Very well put & excellent point, We are discussing opinions and when it comes to opinions EVERYONE can be right and EVERYONE can be wrong. Sometimes all at the same time. :)

For a long time everyone thought the earth was flat or that the sun revolves around the earth, I would imagine that when this was proven as wrong it probably ticked off alot of people ....ESPECIALLY THE MAP MAKERS

But in business everyone IS and SHOULD be allowed to spend their money however they like , where ever they like. And when it comes to business the one constant is IF SOMEONE IS DOING SOMETHING RIGHT they stay in business , If not they fail.

With regards to PSA they have been around awhile so they must be doing SOMETHING right , I know some of the people that are involved with them and personally I like them.

JSA ....same thing they have stayed in business because enough people like what they do to keep them in business. I know some of the people that work for them and I like them , Including Jimmie himself..who I've hoisted more than a few beers with over the years.

With regards to the new SGC authentication which started this thread. I wish them nothing but the best, I spoke with the fellow thats going to be their lead authenticator on the phone a couple days ago and although we've never met he sounds like a nice guy , that sincerely wants to do the right thing.

So there is plenty of room for everyone to co exist and get along, and have opinions. The real test in the end is like ....Darwin's Evolution of Species.....If it works it fourishes and grows , if it dosen;t it goes. That applies to business as it does in nature and also applies to third party authenticators , dealers, restaurants, auto mechanics, You name it.
There is alot of good natured banter here and I like it, Have communicated with some likeable people as a result of my participation here that I otherwise would have never crossed paths with and for that I'm greatful.

No reason on earth why everyone can't have their opinions and still get along
_________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com


+1

[mighty bombjack]

I will reiterate what many here have said (Jason, Steve, and Jim in his last post). I dont get the hatred for the TPAs. It's just an opinion and a service that's been well-marketed. It's very easy to ignore a PSA or JSA cert and just look at the auto. It will be the same for SGC. Slabs are easy to crack, too (but please, people, dont ask these companies to put stickers on an item). Certainly there are some people who buy the cert only and ignore the auto, but I could care less how they spend their money.

I love this hobby and will leave when I stop loving it. Don't see that happening, though.

[travrosty]

if they arent willing to list all their consultants and who looked at the autograph, then the same old system of unaccountability will continue.

if they have so many consultants, why not list who they are. jsa doesnt list them all, psa neither. why? because if you knew their names you would say

?????? who is that? if some guy named lance johnson deemed your autograph authentic, and you had never heard of him before, you would wonder what was going on. but if steve grad or james spence signs on "behalf" of lance johnson, now its a steve grad psa or james spence jsa authentication, and lance johnson can go on unabated and no one can ever check his credentials.

Lance Johnson just a made up name, but it could be otto masterson, bill yodel, or pete Underwood, who cares, there are plenty of guys helping these outfits that no one has heard of, and if you found out, you would be less than impressed.

Jsa lists about 9 consultants, but brags he has 30 or 40, well who the hell are they??????????????

[travrosty]

It's funny you say this. I was wondering who on this board would pay one of the major autograph slip sellers to authenticate anything. I could see paying one of the respected authenticators on this board for their opinion, and I would do so if I had to re-sell something that was very obscure, but pay for a 'slab and slip'?

Do any of you do that?



a few years ago, when i thought they operated out of integrity, i had two items certed by jsa, big mistake. wasted my money and took a bath on the items because the fee ate most if not all of my profits, and I already knew they were good, so why bother. because like others, i thought the cert by itself was worth something, but all along it was the autograph. who knew?

well i will never make that mistake again. i submitted a vintage muhammad ali autograph on a slip of paper that was obviously good, and for only 100 dollars later, i had spence tell me it was good, wow, what a relief!

the other one, a vintage max schmeling signed postcard, costs less, but he had no idea if it was good or not until i talked him into it, then it's good, so it was really a roste coa, but spence took credit for it and took the fee and now it has a jsa coa, like he knew all along, NOT!

the tpa would provide a valuable service if they practiced full disclosure, took more time authenticating autographs. only authenticating within their field, and took responsibility for their mistakes, which they dont, and explain their letters of regret with something else but doublespeak generalities like (improper shading, undulating baseline WHAT?)

They should tell you exactly who looked at your autograph, who made the determination, provide exemplars if asked, (which they don't), list all their consultants, and turn down autographs if they have no experitise in that area.

They do none of these things, and until a company does, i can't in good conscience recomment tpa's because there is too much hidden, secret processes that doesn't do the customer any good and leads to conflict of interest.

[otismalibu]

wasted my money and took a bath on the items because the fee ate most if not all of my profits, and I already knew they were good, so why bother. because like others, i thought the cert by itself was worth something, but all along it was the autograph.

I only really collect one player and feel comfortable doing my own 'authenticating'. Last year I sent in about 30 cards. I've never sold any of my auto cards, but they will inevitably be for sale at some point. IMO, the added value (real or imagined in the eyes of buyers) will more than offset the fees. When on eBay, I'm looking for the top two cards. When the time comes to sell, I'd rather have to move the bottom two. Yes, I know they're the same cards, but this is a hobby where some people mat and frame COAs.


http://i209.photobucket.com/albums/bb110/otismalibu/SGCba_zpsec45eb7e.jpg

[mighty bombjack]

i hope you expect more competancy from your gas line installer, your brake mechanic, your day care provider.

Wow!

I do, but none of those things are hobbies for me. if you are putting an autograph authentication service next to a child's day care provider on any level, than I can see why you have such a deep hatred for these TPAs. Most of us simply don't care nearly that much.

[David Atkatz]

Wow!

I do, but none of those things are hobbies for me. if you are putting an autograph authentication service next to a child's day care provider on any level, than I can see why you have such a deep hatred for these TPAs. Most of us simply don't care nearly that much.Except that, in our society, the autograph authenticator is far more handsomely compensated than the day-care provider.

[travrosty]

Wow!

I do, but none of those things are hobbies for me. if you are putting an autograph authentication service next to a child's day care provider on any level, than I can see why you have such a deep hatred for these TPAs. Most of us simply don't care nearly that much.



you have a low standard of competency for those who you potentially do business with, thats ok, i don't. I expect someone is in business, they know what they are doing. its NOT ok to expect less just because they arent watching your kids but instead authenticating autographs.

[mighty bombjack]

you have a low standard of competency for those who you potentially do business with, thats ok, i don't. I expect someone is in business, they know what they are doing. its NOT ok to expect less just because they arent watching your kids but instead authenticating autographs.

I think it's perfectly OK. It's not that I expect less, it's that I don't expect anything. This is sports autographs, scribble on paper, ZERO intrinsic value, a hobby. There are people who give opinions about such things. Some are better than others. Their opinions can be ignored or treated as fact. None of it bothers me in the least.

[Duluth Eskimo]

who is the football expert at psa, jsa? then why do you feel comfortable sending it in to them if you dont know????

why give richard a jim grief for not being experts at everything when you cant tell me who the football expert is at psa or jsa, yet you feel comfortable sending your football stuff in?

please tell me who looks at your football stuff and who authenticates it? is it the guy who signs off on the LOA "on behalf" of the team? who looked at it? YOU DONT KNOW!! Then why do you feel comfortable with them, you don't even know if they have a football expert.

wake up people!

Once again you are completely missing the point which seems to be all too common in your comments. You wrongly AGAIN assume that people are using third party authenticators to give their autographs a thumbs up for own collection. As Shelly pointed out earlier and I backed him up, a lot of PSA and JSA's business comes from sellers to help achieve better margins when selling autographs.

Also, please stop the nonsense about how you can sell a rare autograph and still achieve top dollar. I think we'll all agree to give you master of the obvious award. If the mid level product that is assisted the most by third party authentication.

The point to this whole thread was that a seller and a large seller at that was "introducing" another third party authenticator without details even though he already had finished product in his hands from this company. This seems a little fishy and should make people wonder about that companies "relationship" with that seller. Especially with the high level of service that I have heard that company gives the card grading market.

[HRBAKER]

It seems that the point is liquidity and the ability to wash one's hands and move on. It is less important as a seller that the the authenticator be right or qualified to render an "opinion" than it is to get the item into a slab so it can be sold for more with "no questions asked" and "no returns?"

[JasonD08]

I find that the true collectors than know their stuff do not care about COAs or even JSA, PSA, BGS, SGC. If you want to maximize profits on mainstream autos on eBay then PSA DNA comes into the picture. As far as SGC I really wish them well, but if they are going to make a dent in this market they:

1. Need to be well prices (Not $15 or even $12 per card)
2. Better website marketing this
3. Better marketing and push for this product.

If SGC would authenticate at $8 per card they would flow with an influx of business. If they try to compete with PSA DNA at this time, they just will not make it in this market. PSA gives specials at times for $10 each, I have seen it and I expect they give a few high volume guys that price or better all the time. SGC MUST undercut that to really make this work. I called the other day offering to submit 1000 cards and pretty much was told $15 was going to be the price. Coming from a guy who would love to see someone take PSA's pie on this, this business model simply will not work. Get the price under $8 each SGC or GOOD LUCK! I would imagine PSA DNA gets about 50% of the subs right anyway. It would not be that difficult for a company to step up and take this market away.

Jason

[mighty bombjack]

It seems that the point is liquidity and the ability to wash one's hands and move on. It is less important as a seller that the the authenticator be right or qualified to render an "opinion" than it is to get the item into a slab so it can be sold for more with "no questions asked" and "no returns?"

It is an interesting question, but your two options need not be mutually exclusive. It so happens that at the time being, the market has determined that JSA and PSA/DNA are right and qualified to render such opinions. I mean, if a seller thinks something is fake, they shouldn't sell it, but how would a second opinion hurt, especially if buyers are asking for it?

[travrosty]

when you order a pepperoni pizza, and you get an anchovie pizza, i guess since its not life or death you dont complain and get your order corrected, you just feed it to the dog, and pay the money and whatever will be will be.

[mighty bombjack]

when you order a pepperoni pizza, and you get an anchovie pizza, i guess since its not life or death you dont complain and get your order corrected, you just feed it to the dog, and pay the money and whatever will be will be.

To your earlier point, what's the name of the guy who cooked the last pizza you ordered?

I collect baseball autographs. WELL over 98 percent of the autos I've seen authenticated by JSA or PSA/DNA have been, in my opinion, legit autos. That is better than the overall numbers of autos I've looked at, and it is also better than the record of getting the correct order from pizza delivery places. Your experience has been different in boxing. I have no interest in boxing.

And I dont send autos to TPAs. I have several in my collection with those certs, but they were purchased as such.

[thenavarro]

To your earlier point, what's the name of the guy who cooked the last pizza you ordered?

Ih.

LOL, nice one

Mike

[Runscott]

when you order a pepperoni pizza, and you get an anchovie pizza, i guess since its not life or death you dont complain and get your order corrected, you just feed it to the dog, and pay the money and whatever will be will be.

If they gave me pepperoni 99% of the time, and the other time they accidentally used some other hard sausage that tasted and looked like pepperoni, I'd probably eat it. But there's no way I'm eating the pup-eroni pizza from Coaches Corner Pizza.

[Deertick]

To your earlier point, what's the name of the guy who cooked the last pizza you ordered?



(pretending i'm Travis)(In una voce morbida aumentando gradualmente di volume)

his name is papa john and he was trained by the best in the world and has. never made a error. unlike the other abc's like dominos, digiornos, and totino's. papa john would never certify pineapple on a pizza. end of discussion. wake up and stop buying pizza.

[Duluth Eskimo]

I like the pizza talk. Funny and original.

In reference to hrbaker, you are wrongly assuming that everyone who sends is too stupid to know whether something is real or not and we need to be saved by PSA or JSA. I also hope you're not accusing me or others of knowingly selling a forgery only because one of the two authenticated it. The only reason I do business with both is because items authenticated by them sell for more money. The item does not change, it only accompanies a LOA from a disinterested third party. If you choose not to do business with them, that is fine. Please do not disparage others for doing business with them. It's a service nothing more. Lastly, I always guarantee everything I sell for life. Same as the big name autograph guys and I have thousands of 100% feedback on eBay which only helps prove my point that even if you have great track record it still doesn't mean people are willing to buy items from you for good money without third party authentication.

[HRBAKER]

I didn't disparage anyone. My post was a question. I know why most people use them. It's like getting your car painted before you sell it, it brings more money. However I don't think I would be going out on too long a limb to say most sellers don't offer returns on TPG cards and autos. As to whether most sellers of autos know whether what they are selling is real or not before they send it in for review, I have no clue - I know what I think. Kudos to you for standing behind what you sell TPG endorsement or not. So you accept returns on any authenticated autograph no questions asked?

Edit to add: I have several slabbed authenticated cards.

[Duluth Eskimo]

If there are questions regarding authenticity and there is a respected opinion in disagreement I do. I do not buy and sell memorabilia for a full time job, but either way my reputation is worth more than one sale.

Someone already echoed this statement, but I have a large personal collection and I would say 90% does not have third party authentication and the ones that do come that way in the auction. If something doesn't look or feel right, it doesn't really matter to me what LOA it comes with no matter who the authenticator is.

[travrosty]

I would fully expect SGC to disclose who their authenticators all, including consultants, but i am not holding my breath. If they do, it will be interesting to see who they are, either no names or the same carpetbaggers?

[Bosox Blair]

If SGC would authenticate at $8 per card they would flow with an influx of business. If they try to compete with PSA DNA at this time, they just will not make it in this market. PSA gives specials at times for $10 each, I have seen it and I expect they give a few high volume guys that price or better all the time. SGC MUST undercut that to really make this work.

Jason

SGC's website says standard authentication and slabbing will be $10 (with additional fees for "premium" signers and for oversized items).

Cheers,
Blair

[chaddurbin]

sgc currently have a deal for $8/card. psa/dna have $10 deals all the time. as a matter of fact i'm involved in one right now over at CU.

[Bosox Blair]

sgc currently have a deal for $8/card.

Is this somewhere on their website? Don't see it. Thanks.

Cheers,
Blair

[JasonD08]

Blair

I called SGC this week to see what 1000 card submission would cost and they thought anything less than $10 per card was unreasonable.

Jason

[sylbry]

Is this somewhere on their website? Don't see it. Thanks.

Cheers,
Blair

The deal is for submissions made in March, not February.

[Bosox Blair]

The deal is for submissions made in March, not February.

OK - thanks!

Cheers,
Blair

[chaddurbin]

OK - thanks!

Cheers,
Blair

yes, contact earl (earlsworld here) for more info. i might take them up on the $8 deal for my private signing cards that i know are good. probably still gonna stick to psa/dna for the unknowns. even tho i don't know much i do have biases toward different alphabet guys :)

[Bosox Blair]

Blair

I called SGC this week to see what 1000 card submission would cost and they thought anything less than $10 per card was unreasonable.

Jason

Hi Jason,

Looks like waiting until March will save you a couple grand!

Cheers,
Blair

[travrosty]

yeah, nobody cares who actually looks at an autograph and authenticates it. , right? yeah, right. as long as you can get it authenticated for 8 dollars, who cares? that's why the hobby suffers, because people just want the cert, not accuracy. is there a lot of people ready to send in their autographs for 8 dollars and doesn't even know or care who is going to authenticate it. nice.

If you don't care who looks at it and authenticates it, then you get what you deserve. we have went from a system where educated, experienced dealers stood behind their autographs to general, anonymous companies slabbing autographs with unknown authenticators, which can then be sold by dealers who have no clue about autographs. we have taken 10 huge steps backward and people here who are laughing because they are getting a great deal couldn't care less because they were not serious autograph hobbyists in the first place. they are just looking for any company to cert it for 8 dollars, to heck with the accuracy and experience behind the person certing it. cert. cert. cert. cert. cert. cert. cert. cert. cert.

[travrosty]

I know Mike N. thinks its funny, but dominos pizza tracker tells me who makes my pizza, Habib does.

think about it, Dominos tells me more about who makes my 12 dollar pizza, than psa or jsa tells me about who looks at and authenticates my 3000 dollar autograph. That should tell you something. More transparency and accountability in a 12 dollar pie than a babe ruth cut.

Who was Michael Root 3 years ago before jsa hired him? were people seeking him out asking for his opinion on autographs? was he some master authenticator? seems to me he owned an autograph store and was maybe well connected and brought in to generate sales, like almost all the other authenticators for abc and xyz corp.

The first two years he wasn't even listed on jsa's website even as an authenticator, wasn't listed at all. he was only listed this last year and all of the sudden he is head of authentication, displacing larry as the owner of that lofty title at jsa. larry must be peeved, even spence III is a regional manager now, a young man in his 20;s, a regional manager and head of authentication in florida, or what have you.

no need to put in twenty or thirty years anymore. anybody can put in 3 or 4 or 5 and be head of authentication and regional/world managers now.

I researched just boxing, not 100 different categories, just boxing for over 20 years, and after 10 years, i still did not feel qualified to opine on just boxing signatures.

but if 8 dollar authentications from a guy with 3 years experience (if he is the one even looking at your signatures at all) floats your boat then go for it.

It's not about getting it right or accuracy anymore, it's about getting the cert. people dont want a guys cert with 25 or 30 years experience if it means the name isnt pms or jv squad or sec. they would rather have a psa, jsa sgc cert from a newbie hired fresh off the street as long as it is slabbed and they get that precious cert. who cares if it is real.

[drc]

Since you don't know who is the examiner, how can you comment on his or her amount and level of experience?

[Runscott]

I know Mike N. thinks its funny, but dominos pizza tracker tells me who makes my pizza, Habib does.

think about it, Dominos tells me more about who makes my 12 dollar pizza, than psa or jsa tells me about who looks at and authenticates my 3000 dollar autograph. That should tell you something. More transparency and accountability in a 12 dollar pie than a babe ruth cut.

Who was Michael Root 3 years ago before jsa hired him? were people seeking him out asking for his opinion on autographs? was he some master authenticator? seems to me he owned an autograph store and was maybe well connected and brought in to generate sales, like almost all the other authenticators for abc and xyz corp.

The first two years he wasn't even listed on jsa's website even as an authenticator, wasn't listed at all. he was only listed this last year and all of the sudden he is head of authentication, displacing larry as the owner of that lofty title at jsa. larry must be peeved, even spence III is a regional manager now, a young man in his 20;s, a regional manager and head of authentication in florida, or what have you.

no need to put in twenty or thirty years anymore. anybody can put in 3 or 4 or 5 and be head of authentication and regional/world managers now.

I researched just boxing, not 100 different categories, just boxing for over 20 years, and after 10 years, i still did not feel qualified to opine on just boxing signatures.

but if 8 dollar authentications from a guy with 3 years experience (if he is the one even looking at your signatures at all) floats your boat then go for it.

It's not about getting it right or accuracy anymore, it's about getting the cert. people dont want a guys cert with 25 or 30 years experience if it means the name isnt pms or jv squad or sec. they would rather have a psa, jsa sgc cert from a newbie hired fresh off the street as long as it is slabbed and they get that precious cert. who cares if it is real.

First of all, if you are paying $12 for a Dominos pizza, I understand why you think $8-10 for a slabbed card is ridiculously low. And who is 'Habib'?

Second, three years experience is quite a bit if you have the eye for it. If you don't have the eye for it, then 50 years is not enough. If you don't understand what I just said, then you don't have the eye.

[HOFAUTOS]

yeah, nobody cares who actually looks at an autograph and authenticates it. , right? yeah, right. as long as you can get it authenticated for 8 dollars, who cares? that's why the hobby suffers, because people just want the cert, not accuracy. is there a lot of people ready to send in their autographs for 8 dollars and doesn't even know or care who is going to authenticate it. nice.

If you don't care who looks at it and authenticates it, then you get what you deserve. we have went from a system where educated, experienced dealers stood behind their autographs to general, anonymous companies slabbing autographs with unknown authenticators, which can then be sold by dealers who have no clue about autographs. we have taken 10 huge steps backward and people here who are laughing because they are getting a great deal couldn't care less because they were not serious autograph hobbyists in the first place. they are just looking for any company to cert it for 8 dollars, to heck with the accuracy and experience behind the person certing it. cert. cert. cert. cert. cert. cert. cert. cert. cert.

If you care so much give Mike a call. He said if you want to know more about who is consulting he would be more than happy to tell you.

Call Mike, Maybe?

[mighty bombjack]

we have went from a system where educated, experienced dealers stood behind their autographs to general, anonymous companies slabbing autographs with unknown authenticators, which can then be sold by dealers who have no clue about autographs.

When was this magical time when there was a system, where I can assume only real autographs were sold because only experienced dealers were selling them? I don't remember such a time.

There are still educated, experienced dealers who stand behind their autographs. Some of the very best post here regularly. Before PSA existed, there were anonymous companies certing autographs with unknown authenticators. Just as it was in the 80s, it is up to buyers to determine if what they purchase is real. I agree that too many blindly trust JSA and PSA/DNA, but those are the same people that have always blindly trusted LOAs of all stripes.

[Mr. Zipper]

First of all, if you are paying $12 for a Dominos pizza...

I stopped at "Dominos."

That's when all credibility was lost. :p :D



* Disclaimer.

This posting was a joke. A tongue-in-cheek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek) comment. No malice or harm was intended to Dominos Pizza or any participant in this discussion forum.

I provide consulting services for space-related autographs to James Spence Authentication, LLC (JSA) among other entities. The opinions posted here by me are my own and do not represent any entity for which I provide service.

http://www.comiccollecting.org/forum/images/smilies/icon_e_angle.gif

[drc]

My only pizza story is when I was in high school, I knew a guy who worked at Domnos-type pizza place (For the legal record, I don't think it was Dominos). He chewed tobacco and one time fell out out of his mouth onto the pizza he was making. He thought for a second, then finished the pizza with the chewing tobacco in it.

His name was Brian, if I recall correctly.

Let's see if Travis can work that into his TPA storyline.

[Runscott]

My only pizza story is when I was in high school, I knew a guy who worked at Domnos-type pizza place (For the legal record, I don't think it was Dominos). He chewed tobacco and one time fell out out of his mouth onto the pizza he was making. He thought for a second, then finished the pizza with the chewing tobacco in it.

His name was Brian, if I recall correctly.

Let's see if Travis can work that into his TPA storyline.

If it was anchovy, I wouldn't have noticed.

I once made a pizza for Jack Nicklaus.

[woods1999]

Does anyone know if PSA, JSA, SCG, or BGS has an option to slab an autograph without authentication or grade. I basically know my autos are real and only want them encapsulated.

[travrosty]

Does anyone know if PSA, JSA, SCG, or BGS has an option to slab an autograph without authentication or grade. I basically know my autos are real and only want them encapsulated.



there are attractive plastic holders you can buy yourself and snap them in that is reversible and sturdy, you don't need sonic welded encapsulation. That's all anyone needs to protect their autograph.

http://www.the2buds.com

these guys have everything under the sun in every size, screw downs, snap-ins. etc.

[travrosty]

I stopped at "Dominos."

That's when all credibility was lost. :p :D



* Disclaimer.

This posting was a joke. A tongue-in-cheek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue-in-cheek) comment. No malice or harm was intended to Dominos Pizza or any participant in this discussion forum.

I provide consulting services for space-related autographs to James Spence Authentication, LLC (JSA) among other entities. The opinions posted here by me are my own and do not represent any entity for which I provide service.

http://www.comiccollecting.org/forum/images/smilies/icon_e_angle.gif




That's exactly my point! Thanks for driving home my point. When Domino's (a company you think is a joke!) provides more information about who makes my cheap pizza than psa and jsa (companies that are suppose to be reputable) can provide about who looks at and authenticates my very expensive autograph, then Houston, we have a problem!

[mighty bombjack]

That's exactly my point! Thanks for driving home my point. When Domino's (a company you think is a joke!) provides more information about who makes my cheap pizza than psa and jsa (companies that are suppose to be reputable) can provide about who looks at and authenticates my very expensive autograph, then Houston, we have a problem!

Fair enough, but I REALLY hope that you can realize that comparing autograph authentication to pizza delivery as a service is a much closer analogy than using child care or gas line repair. These four services are all ones I have used, and I take the latter two seriously and the former two VERY lightly.

[thenavarro]

I know Mike N. thinks its funny, but dominos pizza tracker tells me who makes my pizza, Habib does.



Would you have still had that pizza even if Habib didn't make it? Why is that? How long has Habib been in the pizza business? Can he tell a frozen sausage from a fresh sausage?

Me thinks you still would have had that pizza because of the reputation and marketing of Dominos Pizza. Not because of Habib's knowledge of preparing the pie,or because of any aspect of his pizza making skills. Even though Dominos has served burnt pizzas, pizza with saliva as the secret sauce, as well as even completely lost orders, you still patronize their business.

It's because most of the time you feel you know what you are going to get, you are fine with their level of service and accept their error rate, and you are fine with their price point for the product you receive. Doesn't matter to you that it's Habib, it matters that it's Dominos.

[Scott Garner]

. . . and say perhaps it was/could have been fellow autograph dealer Bill Corcoran ?

I'm only guessing BC just because of both of you had worked from Florida at one time or another, as well as co-hosted a hospitality room together at a Cleveland National, with Bob Feller as the visiting celebrity.

On a more serious note, I already feel that each and every one of my purchases from Jim Stinson, Richard Simon, Bill Corcoran, Ron Gordon, Doug Averitt, and Kevin Keating has come with a LOA (which may someday come in useful when the time comes to part with my collection); each came with a invoice written on company letterhead which I have saved. Nuf said.

+1- Correct!

[Exhibitman]

This thread is a bit surreal, really: isn't it a bit premature to judge SGC's service before it even starts? Who grades a card doesn't prove jack-squat about whether it is graded properly. The proof is in the results. Simply saying "it's gonna be crap" is as much a guess as simply assuming it will be good. How about trying the actual product before judging it?

When the SGC haters have something concrete to show, then it is worth a three-page debate. Until then, this thread has all the weight of a popcorn fart.

[Leon]

This thread is a bit surreal, really: isn't it a bit premature to judge SGC's service before it even starts? Who grades a card doesn't prove jack-squat about whether it is graded properly. The proof is in the results. Simply saying "it's gonna be crap" is as much a guess as simply assuming it will be good. How about trying the actual product before judging it?

When the SGC haters have something concrete to show, then it is worth a three-page debate. Until then, this thread has all the weight of a popcorn fart.

Buttered or non-buttered? I am thinking extra oil equals stronger poot.

[travrosty]

The problem is how do collectors judge how good they are? it's not accuracy, it is whether or not they get the cert and they can buy and sell on ebay and auction houses. If it gets slabbed and accepted on ebay and the auction houses, then they are doing a great job, aren't they, regardless of whether or not they are accurate? These are two different things. my standard of whether or not a company is doing a good job is whether or not they are accurate, period.

We have already heard collectors say that if psa says its good, thats good enough for them, even if the autograph is no good, because they can sell it in the slab and that's all they are looking for.


Why even send it to this new service when psa and jsa are doing such a bang up job??? if this new service just takes any evander holyfield "signed" trading card and encapsulates it, then they will be doing a great job too!!!!

Most collectors only want the certs and slabs and couldn't care if they are accurate and wouldn't now how to judge accuracy anyway, because when someone like me points it out, i get accused of "cherry picking" and nitpicking. It's only accuracy, it's not like it is the ability to buy and sell on ebay and auction houses, which is all that counts to most collectors. Don't mess with that. Accuracy falls by the wayside and is a secondary concern if it is a concern at all.

CLARIFICATION, someone said "before it even starts." It has started!!!! We just don't know who the authenticators are, if they are going to disclose who looks at the autograph or not, if they are going to show exemplars they used, if they are going to give a "detailed" explanation if the autographh fails. All of these questions are unanswered. I have sent them emails and haven't got a response. It will probably be a psa and jsa "clone job". Just slab them and keep going. Keep the collectors happy, bread and circuses. And it exists this way because the big services want it to be this way, they don't want a focus on accuracy, just acceptability in the hobby, which they can influence and control without them necessarily being accurate. Once it turns into an accuracy standard, then they are in trouble, they don't want that, because then they would be required to be accurate! So they keep touting the acceptability standard, GO WITH US, IT WILL BE ACCEPTED IN THE AUCTION HOUSES AND ON EBAY!

There are two kinds of real, abc and xyz company real, and 'actually real'. A lot of collectors are only concerned with abc and xyz real, they couldn't care less about actually real because i have emailed some and PROVED that their slabbed autograph is only abc and xyz real, and is not actually real and they tell me to go jump in the lake.

Someone send me a PM and tell me who michael root is, and why he has less than 1 YEAR's exposuire on JSA's expert page, and how that qualifies him to be the lead authenticator for this company? How many certs has he signed in the past? What is his specialty category? Anything about this guy????? And why is considered taboo to ask questions about a new guy authenticating?

Because certain people here and elsewhere don't want the answers to come about. they want the status quo because the status quo slabs their autographs, pays their bills and keeps them on the coat-tail train. We wouldn't want an accuracy and transparency and accountability debate to break out because that threatens the good thing they (the collectors, the hobby insiders and others who profit) have going. I have gotten banned from another site (some autograph periodical joke site) for saying these things, but thank God for free speech here. I have to give this site credit for that.

[travrosty]

If you want proof of this 'homerism' in the hobby, just go to another site where someone gives an article on SGC, touting its credentials in autograph authentication (there are some?)

Then in the comment section below, someone asks if their autographs are going to be worth the same with an sgc cert as opposed to the other big two companies.

The article writer then chimes in and says that SGC is a brand name and they should be on par with psa and jsa in that regard. So it's psa, jsa, and SGC.

Remember SGC "hasn't even started yet" according to some, but to give them praise is allowable and expected, but to question and have criticism is not allowed!!!!!!!!! Funny world, isn't it?

I then go to the comment section and ask this same editor "how can you call them on par when they are a card grading service only and have NO autograph authenticating experience at all prior to announcing they are now accepting autographs for authentication?" I then go on to say that Betty Crocker is a brand name, but if they started authenticating autographs, how does that make them credible in that regard? SGC grades cards.

Guess what? I got no response and that is typical. the article writer was breaking his arm responding to the first poster who asked if sgc authentications would be worth as much as psa and jsa, because he wanted to make sure to "prime the pump" and tell people not to worry, that sgc authentications will be on par with the others.

But when someone asks a tough question, he follows the company line, which is prevalent within the autograph hobby, and clams up, and doesn't answer. Because he HAS NO ANSWER for this question, it is out of bounds, and it is a question that should be buried because it questions the status quo, where only certain companies are allowed to drink out of the trough and wet their beak so to speak, and others who are not connected into the "program" get shut out and can't get any publicity.

A lot of people here know this is true but won't admit it because they don't want to be on the "outs" with the people who have the power to influence the collector. So they shut up too and go along with the gravy train that is set up for some and not for others, and it's by design. And the people that agree with me are afraid to post too out of fear of retaliation, but they send me a PM or an email telling me they agree. There are only a few who aren't afraid to tell the truth on the public forums.

Disclosure--, i am not an authenticator for jsa or auction house, or psa, and i don't take consideration from any of these, I authenticate for myself only and for a few friends who know where to go to get an honest, accurate opinion on boxing autographs.

[Exhibitman]

Travis, all any TPG submitter is looking for is an opinion from a neutral source, no more and no less. It may be right, it may be wrong, but as long as the vast majority of collectors accepts it as useful, TPG authentication is here to stay. Either accept it or don't accept it, but either way please stop whining about the rampant corruption you see under every rock, behind every bush, etc. in the callous, cruel, unfair world of autograph authentication, because it's getting tiresome. We get it; you don't like PSA, SGC, JSA, BVG, or any other TPG service provider and you consider yourself to be the ultimate in honest, accurate opinions on boxing autographs. Bravo, good for you, here's your cookie. Now, move on.

So, anyone still collect autographs?

[GrayGhost]

I tell ya, this is more tiring than me whining bout how broke I am:rolleyes:. WE KNOW you don't like the TPA's Travis, but constant bashing of them isn't going to change people's minds that rely on them most of the time.

At least people are THINKING now, bout authenticating themselves, etc. and not just relying on Gospel. But, only some. To you, it really seems sometimes. like they couldn't authenticate Joe Torre if he was standing in front of you.

[CardsFan999]

I tell ya, this is more tiring than me whining bout how broke I am:rolleyes:. WE KNOW you don't like the TPA's Travis, but constant bashing of them isn't going to change people's minds that rely on them most of the time.

At least people are THINKING now, bout authenticating themselves, etc. and not just relying on Gospel. But, only some. To you, it really seems sometimes. like they couldn't authenticate Joe Torre if he was standing in front of you.

Lord almighty. Seventeen pages of spam to reach that conclusion. I actually read it all for "educational purposes" over a period of days.

I like TPG because they make it easier for me to sell vetted items and I get a better price. That is the bottom line. Strictly financial for me. The prices on autographs have reached the place where TPG are not only needed but necessary. When I first started collecting them about 1970 everything was cheap and not an issue. Today it is much different. The money has changed everything and no point in pretending it hasn't.

TPG are not going away, in fact there will be more of them going forward, so all of you TPG haters just GET OVER IT.

[Runscott]

I like TPG because they make it easier for me to sell vetted items and I get a better price. That is the bottom line. Strictly financial for me.

+1 on the card side. I only collect non-graded, but am moving toward only selling graded cards. It's easier, faster and fewer returned items.

[CardsFan999]

+1 on the card side. I only collect non-graded, but am moving toward only selling graded cards. It's easier, faster and fewer returned items.

It appears that I'm much the same as you regarding cards. I like them raw, so when I do buy graded cards I generally do a crackout (with a few exceptions for very high-end grades). I don't sell raw, only graded.

[drc]

I'm not advocating anything or any company or any authentication process in this post, but no matter how ignorant one thinks are the buyers, if one completely ignores what they want one won't be a successful seller.

If you sit sit down and think about it, you're selling sports collectibles-- not too far removed from selling Beanie Babies and Barbie Dalls. It's not always so horrible to cater to some of want the buyers wants, even when you think the wants are useless or rather dumb. If the buyer wants some sparkly sprinkles in the packaging for her used Barbie Doll, it won't send you to Hell to put some sparkly sprinkles in the packaging.

And, no, I firmly believe items received should be as advertised, including the authenticity. I never suggested or implied anything other.

And do I disagree with some popular collecting 'rules' and auction industry conceits and am able to understand how someone else could have a serious bone to pick with TPAs or card grading? Sure. A few pop hobby rules make me roll my eyes to reach for the blood pressure medication.

And, for the record, I've never paid for a LOA or to have a card graded or anything to to a collectible encapsulated, laminated or hermetically boxed, bagged, fused or housed.

And if I sold Barbie Dolls and learned little girls like sparkly sprinkles in their packaging, I'd go right over to Rite Aid and by a bag of sparkly sprinkles.

I think some people on this board sometimes forget we're not talking about how to solve the Middle East Issue, we're talking about about kids collectibles that, technically, we should have lost interest in when we turned 14.

And, once again, I firmly believe that items should be correctly identified and described at sale, whether its a George Washington letter or a 1978 Topps George Brett or a Malibu Barbie party dress accessory. I never said or implied anything other.

[CardsFan999]

DRC -- Have you ever considered running for congress? We could use someone with your common sense.

Once big money arrived on the sports collectibles market, and that took some time to evolve, it was inevitable that TPG
authentication would evolve as it did for coins and other collectibles.

I see TPG as a case of a rising tide lifting all boats. I think it's increased the value of peoples collections, both graded and
raw cards. People that couldn't sell their duplicate raw cards for a reasonable price are doing very well selling them graded. TPG
has helped a small online market mushroom. Think about it. Even during a bad economy and less disposable income for many
people, the sports collectible market has held it's own. And the high end graded cards and autos are not only holding value, but
getting more and more at auction.

Collectors want good quality items and TPG increases the odds that they can achieve that goal. Is it a perfect system? No.
Do injustices and mistakes happen? Yes. Are some graders less than perfect? I believe so. But would the market we see
today be different without TPG? Hugely IMHO.

[drc]

I could never win. My mom's maiden name is French.

[npa589]

You seem to know an awful lot about Barbies drc! :)

[drc]

I thought about the stigma as I was writing. I wanted to use an silly kids toy as an example and nearly used GI Joe.

My friends have a 5 year old daughter so I'm not entirely ignorant about Barbie and her accessories. I've seen in person her kitchen set.

For the record, most of Barbie's autographs on the market are autopen.

[CardsFan999]

For the record, most of Barbie's autographs on the market are autopen.


Hmmmmmm... I'd always heard that Ken signed for her. Secretarial by her boy-toy.

[MikeKam]

Does anyone have an opinion on SGC authenticating so far? I have seen some of their pieces pop up on eBay and everything so far looks good.

[Exhibitman]

I've submitted a bunch of stuff to them and they've been more cautious than the other TPGs--perhaps overly so--even rejecting cards that JSA has already passed and other cards that were sourced directly from someone in MLB.

[mschwade]

I talked to a dealer the other day and I asked him the opinion of the job SGC has done so far in autograph authentication and his response was, "SGC is by far the most conservative of the three authentication companies (JSA, PSA, SGC)."

[theshleps]

I agree- they came back with a" not sure "of some signed callahans I had that I know were good.

[Bossfan]

These are a couple autographs that I found on an online auction that were authenticated by SGC but look a little odd to me (I'm a novice at this, so how it looks to me doesn't mean much). How do they look to you folks?

Thanks.

[MikeKam]

These are a couple autographs that I found on an online auction that were authenticated by SGC but look a little odd to me (I'm a novice at this, so how it looks to me doesn't mean much). How do they look to you folks?

Thanks.

Mantle is fine IMO

[Taxman]

If SGC said the Robinson is good then its good..They have a true Robinson expert working for them in customer service. Amazing how fast their turnaround times have been recently.

[Republicaninmass]

The one card I submitted was 75$ for auto and card grade, just the card grade at PSA would have been 15-25

[sebie43]

I believe they have a $12 autograph special for April.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Mantle is fine IMO

Ditto.

The Mantle is authentic.

[Bossfan]

They actually have a special now for $8 for authenticating most autographs (grading is an additional $10, and they don't encapsulate baseballs). I'm thinking of giving them a shot at some recent purchases - my HOF balls are for my collection, not resale, but when I'm gone I anticipate my kids will sell them. Some non-HOF balls I have, particularly team-signed for teams other than Orioles, I would be selling now, as well as some duplicate HOF balls I have. Obviously, there's no way to predict - as someone said on one of these threads, any respected authenticator is one scandal away from losing that respect. But, what do you folks think about the credibility of SGC for resale now and down the road? Evertyhing I've read on this thread has been very positive about them, and their prices are certainly better than the others, but I don't want to be penny-wise and pound foolish. Thanks!

[MikeKam]

They actually have a special now for $8 for authenticating most autographs (grading is an additional $10, and they don't encapsulate baseballs). I'm thinking of giving them a shot at some recent purchases - my HOF balls are for my collection, not resale, but when I'm gone I anticipate my kids will sell them. Some non-HOF balls I have, particularly team-signed for teams other than Orioles, I would be selling now, as well as some duplicate HOF balls I have. Obviously, there's no way to predict - as someone said on one of these threads, any respected authenticator is one scandal away from losing that respect. But, what do you folks think about the credibility of SGC for resale now and down the road? Evertyhing I've read on this thread has been very positive about them, and their prices are certainly better than the others, but I don't want to be penny-wise and pound foolish. Thanks!

Of the SGC autographs I've seen and am reasonable familiar with, I have not seen a single one that I would say is fake.

[Big Dave]

The more competition in the autograph authenticating business, the better for the hobby.Their prices are certainly much better, and their reputation is building. Anything is better then a two party system.