Questionable T206 Lenox Red Cobb on ebay?

[HobokenJon]

Check out this GAI "1st Graded" T206 Red Cobb currently for sale on ebay, which supposedly got a grade of 1, or "Poor."

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1909-11-T206-Ty-Cobb-Red-Background-BLACK-LENOX-RARE-GAI-1-Poor-/230905039777?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item35c3034ba1

Now check out this GAI "1st Graded" T206 Red Cobb, which shows a grade of 2, or "Good," and was sold by Legendary Auctions in October 2005.

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=49921

Hmm. Thoughts? Notice the differences between the flips on the two GAI holders. (The GAI 1 flip looks a bit odd in my opinion.) Wonder which of these "1st Graded" cards was graded, uh, first.

[DerekMichael]

I spoke to the seller briefly. He was a very nice guy and it did seem the card was legit, however the "first graded" thing is actually kind of odd. Hmmmm ...

[freakhappy]

Maybe this will help...

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=82799

[iwantitiwinit]

I saw this card yesterday also and thought if legit its a heck of a buy, Reverse looks strange though. On the bottom right where the creases are it looks like there is actually some bubbling. Could it be skinned?

[Runscott]

Danger Will Robinson!

The front and back creases don't even come close to matching up - they should mirror much more closely

edited to add: in my very humble and sometimes questionable opinion :)

[T205 GB]

Looks like the creases match up fairly well. Also the right side shows a faint Piedmont or Tolstoi OP on it.

[Runscott]

Looks like the creases match up fairly well. Also the right side shows a faint Piedmont or Tolstoi OP on it.

What's really weird is that on the scan that I used for the upload, I can't see that line on the right side - not sure why it's showing up on the uploaded version :confused:

Go back and look at the ebay scan and see if you can still see that line.

[dani0100]

Hi folks -- seller here. Many thanks for the opinions so far. I bought this card several years ago and must admit that I did so with my own trepidations because I got it at a reasonable price and I have the same reservations about GAI that everyone else does. After I received the card and was able to closely inspect it, I was satisfied that is was legitimate. I also recall that when I bought the card there was a thread here on N54 about it and that the consensus was that it looked authentic.

Regarding the "First Graded" issue, my understanding is that GAI gave that designation out to the first card graded a particular numerical grade. So, the existence of a "First Graded" GAI 1 and a "First Graded" GAI 2 would be normal. Given the rarity of this card, and the likelihood that GAI did not grade many of them, I would expect most of them to have a "First Graded" designation. Certainly I would love to know if I'm wrong, though.

One thing that struck me as unusual about the card is that the reverse looks somewhat faded. However, when I inspected the card in person, it was clear that there was paper loss from an adhesive mounting and that this not only took off chunks of the back, but it gave the remaining ink some lightness from parts of it being pulled off. There is definitely no bubbling on this card (if I understand what that means). I always figured that if someone was going to do a skin job, this was really not the way to do it.

I thought perhaps some very high resolution photos would be appreciated, so I've uploaded them here (note: these are HUGE -- click with caution):

Front: http://mcdpro.com/lenoxcobbbig/IMG_7667.jpg

Back: http://mcdpro.com/lenoxcobbbig/IMG_7668.jpg

[atx840]

Thanks for posting.

I'd think that it's a risky endeavor to fabricate this for what isn't a substantial amount of money compared to what the Drum or RHs went for. Your Cobb and Lenox "parts" cards for this would likely run 1k-2k.

Great card!

[Al C.risafulli]

Miguel is correct about how the GAI "first graded" designation worked.

They assigned a "first graded" card to each GRADE. So, for example, the first 1979 Topps Kiko Garcia that graded GAI 10 would receive a "first graded" designation, as would the first 1979 Topps Kiko Garcia that graded GAI 9. Theoretically, they could have a "first graded" designation for every grade.

Entirely possible to have a "first graded" Lenox Cobby in GAI 1 and 2, in other words.

-Al

[Brian Weisner]

Hi Guys,
I was offered the card 6-7 years ago by an advanced collector who I purchased many rare back T206's from... Here is a scan of the raw card in a group from that time... I purchased the Evers/Drum instead... I wish I had purchased the Cobb too....

Be well Brian

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/hogan6g/picsfront-2_zps21b2c8e1.jpg
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/hogan6g/picsback-1_zps6c9d1973.jpg

[Mikehealer]

Hi Brian
I like the Evers, wish I had a card/cards to trade for it.
But I'm sure you have multiples of every card I have.

Happy New Year

Mike