Bidding on your own auction

[Edwolf1963]

I don't understand this, unless to drive up the bid prices..? Look at this Probstein123 listing which ends tonight...

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=380538844655

y***y (private) bid $189 on 12/18 - - only issue is y***y (private) won this very card on 12/2/12 for $355! (see below link)

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=251189941256

So he winds winning the card, consigns with Rick - and bids on his own card to drive more bids/up the price..?

[Howe’s Hunter]

Since eBay went to the whole bidder privacy thing years ago, and your bids no longer show up under your eBay name, do you always have the same cryptic handle no matter what you bid on? Guess I've never paid that much attention, but if I bid on something last year, and someone saw I was bidder A****Z, would I still be bidder A****Z a year later when I bid on something again, or are those things randomly generated?

Sorry, just don't have a clue about this.

[smtjoy]

Yes your ebay scrambled ID shows up the same, mine is always the same even when checking VCP on cards I purchased.

[bcbgcbrcb]

I think they are random but not 100% sure.

[Tobacco&Gum]

Yes your ebay scrambled ID shows up the same, mine is always the same even when checking VCP on cards I purchased.

+1, same goes for card target

[Edwolf1963]

Good question - I know I always come up as o***o along with my feedback score (I don't know what people do to get listed as "private"?)

Now, they may assign "o***o" to others as well, I'm not sure..? But this is too much of a coincidence -- y***y (private) wins the card on 12/2, consigns the card for re-sell to Probstein123 and then y***y (private) shows up bidding on it..? Wow.

I've reported it, called eBay - they did confirm that y***y (private) won the card on 12/2 and has now bid on that very same card in this current auction Probstein123 has. Unknown if Rick is aware, that's why I called eBay instead of just reporting it as a shill bid.

[D. Bergin]

Somebody should probably contact Probstein about it. I doubt he keeps track of all of his consignors ID's, or checks the bid history of every one of his auctions.

[atx840]

It's been mentioned before, this guy is highly suspicious. He's bid on every T206 and any other card type.


Bidding Details


Bidder Information
Bidder: s***s( 442)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: T206 Miller Huggins Portrait Cincinnati HOF PSA 2 GOOD
Bids on this item: 3

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1041
Items bid on: 469
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 78%
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 42

[ScottFandango]

78% of all his bids are with that seller?

is that correct?

[Edwolf1963]

I have contacted Probstein to advise as suggested, he may indeed not be aware - that's why I didn't just report it as shilling (as that may suggest he's aware, instigating, etc).

FYI - y***y (private) seller/bidder is "myboydannyroy67"

[honus94566]

Seems quite possible that this account is a shill account, it "accidentally" won for him the first time, so now he is re-listing the card.

"30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1041
Items bid on: 469
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 78%
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 42"

This is not a normal ebay account. At least from what I can see.

[Sean]

It's been mentioned before, this guy is highly suspicious. He's bid on every T206 and any other card type.


Bidding Details


Bidder Information
Bidder: s***s( 442)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: T206 Miller Huggins Portrait Cincinnati HOF PSA 2 GOOD
Bids on this item: 3

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1041
Items bid on: 469
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 78%
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 42

He has retracted 42 bids in the last 6 months. How is this allowed?

[Republicaninmass]

I have contacted Probstein to advise as suggested, he may indeed not be aware - that's why I didn't just report it as shilling (as that may suggest he's aware, instigating, etc).

FYI - y***y (private) seller/bidder is "myboydannyroy67"

Didnt do a very good job as he still lost a few hundred on the sale no?

edited I see it has NOT yet ended

[D. Bergin]

He has retracted 42 bids in the last 6 months. How is this allowed?

I don't know. Seems to me, all bids are good bids according to Ebay.

Does anybody think it's a coincidence that about the same time Ebay made bidding accounts largely anonymous, they also lifted restrictions on bid retractions?

When a bidder has that many retractions it means one of two things. They are shilling auctions or they are tampering with auctions. Not good for buyers or sellers in the overall scheme of things.

I don't mind making bidders names anonymous, because many bidders prefer to stay anonymous if possible...........that generally holds for any type of auction.

However, to make the habitual act of retracting bids an accepted part of the auction process, strikes me as Ebay putting their head in the sand as a way of defending themselves by telling people "we didn't know these types of practices were going on." It's their way of not having to deal with the problem.

Sure, they have rules against "shilling" and "tampering with auctions", but they rarely ever acknowledge it, except in very extreme and blatant circumstances.

[Butch7999]

Trivia, just for the record:

-- "masked" eBay IDs do not always come up the same for the same bidder (although they're consistent within any single auction).
Our eBay ID has shown up masked a couple of different ways.

-- a "masked" ID can represent any number of eBay bidders -- there are only about 1,600 possible two-character combinations.

[smtjoy]

Well all I can say is mine show up the same and have so for a long time (and I checked about 20 more purchases too) -


2/4/10 eBay Image macbruce11 y***t 12 $261.00

11/28/10 eBay Image davidbvintage y***t 1 $22.00

10/23/11 eBay Image cardsandbrowns y***t 9 $47.00

12/8/12 eBay Auction | Image dslsports y***t 9 $5.50

[ScottFandango]

looks like Y****Y is bidding on many Probsteins 1914's...usually one of the early bidders...

why would someone bid 69.99 or 89.99? does this person like losing by .01
?
i have been on ebay many many years and never bid this amount (.99) when trying to win a card, i cant figure it out...

[Republicaninmass]

never have seen a different masked id for one particular buyer, and it is the sames ones who keep outbidding me!

[ullmandds]

Hmmm...this isn't looking so good?! Time will reveal all!

[iwantitiwinit]

In my mind there is only one reason for someone to consistently bid .01 lower than a round figure and that is because in most situations someone else has bid an exact amount and you want to extract maximum value. As mentioned you bid 89.99 because more than likely someone has bid $90.00. If you are a true buyer and want to win a card you bid $90.01 not 89.99. It would be interesting to see if this pattern occurred with other sales from that same seller. Hope we don't find out this is another "black eye" for an ebay seller.

[MW1]

Trivia, just for the record:

-- "masked" eBay IDs do not always come up the same for the same bidder (although they're consistent within any single auction).
Our eBay ID has shown up masked a couple of different ways.

-- a "masked" ID can represent any number of eBay bidders -- there are only about 1,600 possible two-character combinations.Butch,

Can you provide an example?

[smtjoy]

lol I have also never bid adding a .99, it does make a lot of sense if you were to shill you would want to bid just under whole numbers as most are probably like me bidding whats easy- $70 or 90

[iwantitiwinit]

Hmmm the plot thickens, I see one consistent bidder on this sellers auctions is i***g. I just quickly looked at 3 of this sellers active t206 auctions and see that i***g has bid on all three.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Miller-Huggins-Portrait-Cincinnati-HOF-PSA-2-GOOD-/380538935906?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item5899e35a62

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Josh-Devore-New-York-Sovereign-460-RARE-Back-PSA-2-/360546274096?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item53f23b8b30

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=380542032273



That in itself means absolutely nothing i***g could be bidding on every t206 out there for all I know. However, looking a bit further I see that in the past 6 months i***g has 133 bid retractions. Here are the stats I see for that bidder:

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 72
Items bid on: 72
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 25%
Bid retractions: 8
Bid retractions (6 months): 133

Something is starting to smell a bit fishy.

[chaddurbin]

one of the many perks of paying someone else to sell your lower valued cards...so you can shill the hell out of it. otherwise why would anyone consign $50-$100 cards to these places?

[T206DK]

Hmmm the plot thickens, I see one consistent bidder on this sellers auctions is i***g. I just quickly looked at 3 of this sellers active t206 auctions and see that i***g has bid on all three.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Miller-Huggins-Portrait-Cincinnati-HOF-PSA-2-GOOD-/380538935906?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item5899e35a62

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Josh-Devore-New-York-Sovereign-460-RARE-Back-PSA-2-/360546274096?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item53f23b8b30

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=380542032273



That in itself means absolutely nothing i***g could be bidding on every t206 out there for all I know. However, looking a bit further I see that in the past 6 months i***g has 133 bid retractions. Here are the stats I see for that bidder:

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 72
Items bid on: 72
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 25%
Bid retractions: 8
Bid retractions (6 months): 133

Something is starting to smell a bit fishy.

Whats new....another supposedly reputable vintage card seller with really high feedback is caught shilling or having his friends or relatives shill his auctions ...wow stop the presses:D Collecting cards is becoming kind of depressing these days

[D. Bergin]

Hmmm the plot thickens, I see one consistent bidder on this sellers auctions is i***g. I just quickly looked at 3 of this sellers active t206 auctions and see that i***g has bid on all three.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Miller-Huggins-Portrait-Cincinnati-HOF-PSA-2-GOOD-/380538935906?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item5899e35a62

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Josh-Devore-New-York-Sovereign-460-RARE-Back-PSA-2-/360546274096?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item53f23b8b30

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&_trksid=p2047675.l2565&rt=nc&item=380542032273



That in itself means absolutely nothing i***g could be bidding on every t206 out there for all I know. However, looking a bit further I see that in the past 6 months i***g has 133 bid retractions. Here are the stats I see for that bidder:

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 72
Items bid on: 72
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 25%
Bid retractions: 8
Bid retractions (6 months): 133

Something is starting to smell a bit fishy.


This one does not look like a straight out shiller to me.

Looks more like a tamperer

A few possibilities:

He pulls his bids when he finds out something else he likes, since he's usually only putting in one bid per auction.

He is really, really interested for some reason in seeing a stable market for T206's, and is misguidedly throwing in bids he thinks the cards should go for (thereby protecting the value of his own collection) and pulling them back when it looks like he might actually win.

Lastly, he is a bit of a shiller. He's not running up auctions but he has consignments with this seller and is placing a single bid on his own cards as sort of a reserve.

Whatever it is, it shouldn't be allowed by Ebay. I'm not sure it's something I would crucify the seller for without knowing more.

If I was Probstein and the same guy was retracting bids in my auctions on a regular basis, he'd be on the blocked bidder list very quickly. It's not hard to keep track of...........you get an e-mail from Ebay every time it happens.

[iwantitiwinit]

I only stated what I saw don't think I crucified anyone. I have bot from this seller in the past both on eBay and in person and have enjoyed the interactions. I hope some of the things pointed out are proven to be coincidences.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Something is starting to smell a bit fishy.

Started smelling fishy in the Art Shell thread a few months ago (pank21). Now just downright rotten!!!

[asoriano]

These are exactly the reasons why I will never bid with Rick Probstein.

Shady.

[D. Bergin]

I only stated what I saw don't think I crucified anyone. I have bot from this seller in the past both on eBay and in person and have enjoyed the interactions. I hope some of the things pointed out are proven to be coincidences.


Just making a general observation. I didn't mean to imply you yourself, were "crucifying" the seller in question.

It does merit being pointed out. Whether there's anything untoward going on with Probstein or not, these type of bidding practices are ultimately damaging to the marketplace. I'd like to see these types of bidders taking some flack for this.

It's becoming a common trend nowadays, whether it involves actual shilling or not.

[frankbmd]

My masked ID has not changed. Just about all of my purchases have been captured by Card Target and the prices paid are accurate. Now who am I?

The encryption masking involves several algorithms depending on the number of characters in your username. I haven't figured it all out, but I have a pretty good idea. It isn't rocket science IMO.

[Bugsy]

If Probstein were an honest seller, he wouldn't want shill bidders continually manipulating his auctions...assuming he himself isn't the shill bidder.

[D. Bergin]

If Probstein were an honest seller, he wouldn't want shill bidders continually manipulating his auctions...assuming he himself isn't the shill bidder.


That's a good point. Retractions happen from time to time, but if it is frequent from the same bidder, or worse, from a consignor.........he should be blocking that bidder and/or refusing those consignments.

He does have a somewhat huge operation going and I understand some things can get overlooked, but these are somewhat easy to notice things.

Retractions are the key. The Bid %'s Ebay gives, really means nothing IMO, unless it is in tandem with other fishy practices.

[Butch7999]

Again, just tangential trivia, but since you asked --
MW1, all we can tell ya is basically what we already said and what we've seen in auctions in which we've bid.
-- our bids have shown up as both "u***u" and "u***7"
-- we've also seen the bids of a friend and fellow Net54 member showing up with two specific characters in several auctions
(we decline to specify the characters without his permission) and those same two characters transposed in other auctions.

Presumably, there's something in the eBay encryption programme that will change the "standard" masked ID for a second bidder
if another bidder, whose masked ID appears as the same two characters as those normally used to mask the second bidder,
has already bid in that same auction.
-----------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch7999
Trivia, just for the record:
-- "masked" eBay IDs do not always come up the same for the same bidder (although they're consistent within any single auction).
Our eBay ID has shown up masked a couple of different ways.
-- a "masked" ID can represent any number of eBay bidders -- there are only about 1,600 possible two-character combinations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MW1
Butch,
Can you provide an example?

[ScottFandango]

in todays day of hidden ebay bidder's IDs, why do some bidders show up as "private" still?

what is the benefit of this? y*****y is listed as "private"...

[D. Bergin]

in todays day of hidden ebay bidder's IDs, why do some bidders show up as "private" still?

what is the benefit of this? y*****y is listed as "private"...

I have a couple regulars who are "Private". I know from speaking to one of them, It's so they can leave feedback and others can't see what they have been bidding on through their own feedback history.

The ID's aren't always a mystery either. If you already know somebody's Ebay handle you pretty much have free reign to track what they have been bidding on.

[t206fix]

Ok - so I've purchased some items from this seller in the past. I looked up this item that I've purchased, and look at the underbidder's activity with this seller...

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&mode=1&item=370700288167&aid=1***2&eu=VdBU29ZPUySG8yJXT5ZhOi7atirqSHXb&view=BUYER&ssPageName=PageBidderProfileViewBids_Buyer_ViewLin k

It says that there is 100% bidding activity with this seller. Am I reading this right? Does this mean that this buyer only bids on items from this seller, or am I missing out on something?

This card went for more that what I expected it to go, but I guess that doesn't mean anything!?!

[Leon]

Ok - so I've purchased some items from this seller in the past. I looked up this item that I've purchased, and look at the underbidder's activity with this seller...

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&mode=1&item=370700288167&aid=1***2&eu=VdBU29ZPUySG8yJXT5ZhOi7atirqSHXb&view=BUYER&ssPageName=PageBidderProfileViewBids_Buyer_ViewLin k

It says that there is 100% bidding activity with this seller. Am I reading this right? Does this mean that this buyer only bids on items from this seller, or am I missing out on something?

This card went for more that what I expected it to go, but I guess that doesn't mean anything!?!


that buyer really likes that seller :eek:

[wazoo]

Honestly, these shill bidders do a terrible job covering their tracks. I mean, if you don't want to be seen only bidding on items from one seller, why not just put in a bid on items from different sellers that they are positive they won't win! That's make it look less fishy honestly, they just do a poor job.

[Edwolf1963]

Ok - so I've purchased some items from this seller in the past. I looked up this item that I've purchased, and look at the underbidder's activity with this seller...

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&mode=1&item=370700288167&aid=1***2&eu=VdBU29ZPUySG8yJXT5ZhOi7atirqSHXb&view=BUYER&ssPageName=PageBidderProfileViewBids_Buyer_ViewLin k

It says that there is 100% bidding activity with this seller. Am I reading this right? Does this mean that this buyer only bids on items from this seller, or am I missing out on something?

This card went for more that what I expected it to go, but I guess that doesn't mean anything!?!

It means he hasn't bid on/with anyone else in the last 30 days. This may have cost you a few bucks on this auction (assuming it was shilled) as you may have otherwise won the card for the next increment over $26 and change.

What's more suspicious about this is another under bidder s***s (445) with 43 bid retractions in the last 6 months! This was brought up before by other members and in previous replies - I don't get this at all - - I've never had any! 1 or 2 seems like a lot - 43..?! :eek:

s***s (445)
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 967
Items bid on: 416
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 76% Help
Bid retractions: 4
Bid retractions (6 months): 43

[T206DK]

Ok - so I've purchased some items from this seller in the past. I looked up this item that I've purchased, and look at the underbidder's activity with this seller...

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBidderProfile&mode=1&item=370700288167&aid=1***2&eu=VdBU29ZPUySG8yJXT5ZhOi7atirqSHXb&view=BUYER&ssPageName=PageBidderProfileViewBids_Buyer_ViewLin k

It says that there is 100% bidding activity with this seller. Am I reading this right? Does this mean that this buyer only bids on items from this seller, or am I missing out on something?

This card went for more that what I expected it to go, but I guess that doesn't mean anything!?!

that looks really suspicious. I wonder how many of those bids he placed were winning bids.

[HRBAKER]

Honestly, these shill bidders do a terrible job covering their tracks. I mean, if you don't want to be seen only bidding on items from one seller, why not just put in a bid on items from different sellers that they are positive they won't win! That's make it look less fishy honestly, they just do a poor job.

You're assuming they care, I'd be surprised of they do. It seems that ebay doesn't care and neither do the preponderance of bidders, as most don't know. Ebay provides a nearly perfect playground for miscreants. I hate to say it but I would assume I'm shilled on anything that I do anything but snipe on. I would bet I'm right more often than I'm wrong.

As for this seller, I'm not sure what he could do other than to refuse consignments from anyone he has confirmed bid on their own items.

[RCMcKenzie]

Have you guys seen Wayne Carini on his show "Chasing Classic Cars"? He's the winner and the loser and the consignor and the consignee. Good show.

In Texas, it's perfectly fine to point to the back of the room at no one in particular and say "Hoah!" at an imaginary bidder to git the auction going.

[jp1216]

Just looked at my feedback. One purchase from Probstein123 this year.
One underbidder (y***s) with a feedback over 1200 bid with a price ending in .99 also. Feedback percentage with seller: 79%! Zero bid retractions.
A quick search reveals this bidder's ID. I won't post it.
Odd to say the least.
Looking at the variety of stuff y***s has won from him - just weird.

A friend of mine just won an unrelated card from him this week. The under bidder has private FB and nearly 90% with this seller... Funny .99 bid amounts again.

[smotan_02]

Interesting is that I would read several threads like this on the Collectors Universe forum. Those threads would quickly disappear. The cult like following threads endure though.

[T206DK]

Just looked at my feedback. One purchase from Probstein123 this year.
One underbidder (y***s) with a feedback over 1200 bid with a price ending in .99 also. Feedback percentage with seller: 79%! Zero bid retractions.
A quick search reveals this bidder's ID. I won't post it.
Odd to say the least.
Looking at the variety of stuff y***s has won from him - just weird.

A friend of mine just won an unrelated card from him this week. The under bidder has private FB and nearly 90% with this seller... Funny .99 bid amounts again.

sounds like a friend or relative of the seller. Some of the shill accounts that big sellers use have high enough feedback of their own that it can throw off the casual observer and have them believing that nothing suspicious is going on when a guy bids .99 increments loads of times in one auction and has 75%-100% bidding history with one seller. Remember...there are flea marketers that have 7,8,9,10 different accounts on ebay why should it be any different for a dishonest baseball card dealer who is struggling to make a dime the Honest way. The fact that Ebay allows them to shill with impunity is no excuse for them doing it , I think it sucks and they ruin a neat hobby and discourage newbies from getting involved at all. This discusion has been had over and over though on this board about shilling at auction houses and on Ebay by supposed reputable sellers with great reputations in the hobby. Shilling has only gotten worse and some cases more brazen...if we really wanted to a bunch of people who know what they are doing could probably put a list together of Ebay sellers thay believe engage in nefarious activity, or we could just start telling people why we don't or won't bid with certain sellers
*signed fuming mad Dave in Ohio *

[Runscott]

Some of the shill accounts that big sellers use have high enough feedback of their own that it can throw off the casual observer

It was easy to spot shilling ten years ago. Not so easy anymore, and that's the way ebay wants it. Consignors and sellers are happy, customers also - as long as they can add cool stuff to their collections, they'll turn a blind eye. That leaves no one upset with the situation other than the smaller sellers, and ebay doesn't want smaller sellers.

If it makes you feel any better, ebay is squeezing out the auction format in favor of the Amazon model, but no telling how long that will take.

if we really wanted to a bunch of people who know what they are doing could probably put a list together of Ebay sellers thay believe engage in nefarious activity, or we could just start telling people why we don't or won't bid with certain sellers
*signed fuming mad Dave in Ohio *

Haha. Try that and you'll make more enemies than friends.

[T206DK]

Scott, I suspect you are right on all points made. I think Ebay will soon be a buy it now web site with no real auctions at all.
I think discussing the shilling activity we have experienced on Ebay is a good thing in that it alerts others to what may be going on and may make people pay more attention to who is bidding against them. Some of these sellers read this forum and may even be members so one might think that they would reply to these posts. The only seller I remember replying to posts about shilling was the guy who sells the Helmar cards that are made to look old.

[ScottFandango]

This stinks

This guy is a Legend on the PSA boards..

There was a recent thread " why doesn't everyone consign with probstein?"..agh

[Leon]

First of all, on this forum, these threads won't go poof. Secondly, make sure your name is in your post if you are making negative (or positive) claims concerning a person or business. Otherwise, on that front, we are wide open.

I don't think it's Probstein doing anything himself (or their self). I do think he could be more diligent on watching for this shady bidding that seems to be going on and helping to avoid it. He might get so many consignments that he can't keep up with the shilling of his consignors? Maybe this is one of the reasons some of the biggest ebay sellers get so many consignments AND their prices often seem to be above market. This is also a reason you can't just use VCP blindly. You really need to look at the auction, other historical sales and the card characteristics to make a valuation decision.

[jp1216]

Just seems odd that a bidder can have 80-90% with the same seller. Assuming the bidder is also the cosigner (trying to drive up or reserve a certain price) - the seller should be able to recognize that he is mailing the card to the same guy that cosigned it with him. Does he include a check for the % of sale in the same package?

[Leon]

Just seems odd that a bidder can have 80-90% with the same seller. Assuming the bidder is also the cosigner (trying to drive up or reserve a certain price) - the seller should be able to recognize that he is mailing the card to the same guy that cosigned it with him. Does he include a check for the % of sale in the same package?

Jon- the sellers see all bidders full details concerning their USER ID. They know who is bidding or can certainly find out very easily, I would think.

[honus94566]

I don't think it's Probstein doing anything himself (or their self). I do think he could be more diligent on watching for this shady bidding that seems to be going on and helping to avoid it. He might get so many consignments that he can't keep up with the shilling of his consignors?

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact that this guy's got 43 bid retractions, and 78% or whatever it was bids with this seller - seems like more is going on than just a consignor bidding on his own items.

I mean, come on... This bidder has bid on 469 different auctions, 78% of them probstein's. That's bidding on almost 400 different probstein auctions! Surely that cannot be chalked up to just a shilling consignor. It's intentional, deliberate, and very clear what this bidder is doing.

That being said, shill bidding aside, nobody can ever force you to pay more for a card than you are willing to bid and pay for it.

[Bugsy]

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact that this guy's got 43 bid retractions, and 78% or whatever it was bids with this seller - seems like more is going on than just a consignor bidding on his own items.

I mean, come on... This bidder has bid on 469 different auctions, 78% of them probstein's. That's bidding on almost 400 different probstein auctions! Surely that cannot be chalked up to just a shilling consignor. It's intentional, deliberate, and very clear what this bidder is doing.

That being said, shill bidding aside, nobody can ever force you to pay more for a card than you are willing to bid and pay for it.

Exactly. The seller would know about the continuous retractions. My thinking is that an honest seller wouldn't want a shill screwing with their auctions. More importantly, an honest seller would quickly and vigorously respond to allegations of underhanded activities. If I were accused of these things, I would be outraged and would certainly respond.

[mcgwirecom]

Now I don't feel so bad about taking his free carry-all at the National this year.

[calvindog]

Now I don't feel so bad about taking his free carry-all at the National this year.

It's not free -- you paid for it.

[Runscott]

Jon- the sellers see all bidders full details concerning their USER ID. They know who is bidding or can certainly find out very easily, I would think.

Yep, so if there IS shilling going on, the sellers are complicit in the arrangement. Or they are great businessmen who just don't pay attention to who their customers or consignors are :confused:

As an aside, it's hard to imagine a successful business model that relies purely on straight ebay auctions. I don't want to get sued for libel, so please don't give me examples.

[RCMcKenzie]

Guys,

Probstein is one of a handful of dealers that list at no reserve. I have one purchase from him and it was a very rare n172 at under $200. Insane.

I list at no reserve, but I don't sell baseball cards for a living. I do it for fun and don't care if I make or lose money on an ebay lot.

When I first saw baseball cards on ebay in 1998 almost all sales were $1 and no reserve. I remember uncatalogued T214's going for 89 bucks.

This guy sold a PSA 2 1914 Meyers for under $100 the other day. His auctions are bad? Others good. C'mon.

In Texas, what you guys are calling egregious and nefarious shilling is known as an accepted, legal practice to getting an item to a reserve below market value.

You guys keep it up and no-one will sell on ebay at no reserve except for people like me who don't care what the cards sell for.

[glchen]

Guys,

Probstein is one of a handful of dealers that list at no reserve. I have one purchase from him and it was a very rare n172 at under $200. Insane.

I list at no reserve, but I don't sell baseball cards for a living. I do it for fun and don't care if I make or lose money on an ebay lot.

When I first saw baseball cards on ebay in 1998 almost all sales were $1 and no reserve. I remember uncatalogued T214's going for 89 bucks.

This guy sold a PSA 2 1914 Meyers for under $100 the other day. His auctions are bad? Others good. C'mon.

In Texas, what you guys are calling egregious and nefarious shilling is known as an accepted, legal practice to getting an item to a reserve below market value.

You guys keep it up and no-one will sell on ebay at no reserve except for people like me who don't care what the cards sell for.

As a seller on ebay, I've hit record low prices selling cards that start at 99 cents w/ no reserve. (33 Goudey 92 Gehrig SGC 40/3 for $550, T206 Mathewson PSA 4 for $450, 33 Sport Kings Cobb PSA 3 for $300, and more where those came from.) I personally think it's nuts for the average seller to start auctions at 99 cents these days, so I never do that anymore unless I just want to get rid of the card and am willing to take whatever loss comes my way. However, I also think shilling is wrong, and it's obviously going on in the case listed in this thread. Rick Probstein runs a lot of auctions. There's no way he could keep track of it if some of his consignors wanted to shill their own items. However, once someone points out to him that it's happening, he should come down hard to them by ending the listings, outing the consignor, and banning those folks from consigning w/ him again.

BTW, if you want ebay to get rid of BINs and go back to regular auctions, mail ebay and tell them to implement the following 3 things: (1) raise BIN fees to 5% of the BIN price, with the max length of BINs still at one month, (2) remove all promotions relating to free insertion fees for listings, (3) remove insertion fees for any auction listing that starts at 99 cents or less. There would be a huge outcry among sellers, including myself, but I think if ebay did this, you'd see a lot more regular auctions again and less BINs.

[JollyElm]

If it walks like a shill and quacks like a shill, it's a shill. Freakin' ridiculous!!!

[T206DK]

Exactly. The seller would know about the continuous retractions. My thinking is that an honest seller wouldn't want a shill screwing with their auctions. More importantly, an honest seller would quickly and vigorously respond to allegations of underhanded activities. If I were accused of these things, I would be outraged and would certainly respond.

key word "HONEST"

[T206DK]

Guys,

Probstein is one of a handful of dealers that list at no reserve. I have one purchase from him and it was a very rare n172 at under $200. Insane.

I list at no reserve, but I don't sell baseball cards for a living. I do it for fun and don't care if I make or lose money on an ebay lot.

When I first saw baseball cards on ebay in 1998 almost all sales were $1 and no reserve. I remember uncatalogued T214's going for 89 bucks.

This guy sold a PSA 2 1914 Meyers for under $100 the other day. His auctions are bad? Others good. C'mon.

In Texas, what you guys are calling egregious and nefarious shilling is known as an accepted, legal practice to getting an item to a reserve below market value.

You guys keep it up and no-one will sell on ebay at no reserve except for people like me who don't care what the cards sell for.

So if we demand honesty from card sellers then you are saying the baseball card market will dry up and blow away basically....okay - good riddance then. I have other hobbies.
I will remember not to bid on any auctions originating from Texas if this is the "accepted practice" down there. Why bother with an auction, just state your price and se what happens. Baseball cards are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them please remember they have no real value. I can't trade a t206 for my dinner tonight or go to Krogers and buy milk and eggs with some old T207's I don't want anymore. In order to be able to turn over these precious cards there has to be an interest in them. If people keep getting ripped off and keep hearing and reading about rip off artists on Ebay in in auction houses there will be no interest in collecting cards. I know I have curtailed my buyng and refuse to bid on ebay with certain sellers because of suspicious activity I have observed

[Leon]

So if we demand honesty from card sellers then you are saying the baseball card market will dry up and blow away basically....okay - good riddance then. I have other hobbies.
I will remember not to bid on any auctions originating from Texas if this is the "accepted practice" down there. Why bother with an auction, just state your price and se what happens. Baseball cards are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them please remember they have no real value. I can't trade a t206 for my dinner tonight or go to Krogers and buy milk and eggs with some old T207's I don't want anymore. In order to be able to turn over these precious cards there has to be an interest in them. If people keep getting ripped off and keep hearing and reading about rip off artists on Ebay in in auction houses there will be no interest in collecting cards. I know I have curtailed my buyng and refuse to bid on ebay with certain sellers because of suspicious activity I have observed

That's kind of a new twist, condemning a whole state for one person's thoughts. For the record I am in no way condoning shilling or the ignoring of shilling. Its fraud and it's ethically wrong too. It certainly looks like the seller needs to be asking questions and possibly booting some consignors.

and a nice video on shilling....R rated for language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqJewhJcC-o&feature=player_embedded


.

[ullmandds]

nice video...pretty f'in funny...the accent definitely increases it's comedic value!!!!

[Runscott]

I think it's great that people on drugs can make videos. Very funny.

[familytoad]

Geez, I actually laughed out loud during that video! A true LOL is much rarer than the typed out trio of letters...

Cookies are good.
Shilling sux.

I only bid on 3-4 different sellers on ebay. That's because I have had sucessful transactions with them, and i created a saved search for those dealers. I typically only look through their offerings, not the whole ebay enterprise. I am not a seller. Sure that limits what I see and probably keeps my glasses colored in rose.

This leads me to several disjointed conclusions:

EBAY ain't what it used to be. You may not find as many "steals" as in the older days.

Sellers hate steals almost as much as buyers like them.

Every time I bid higher than a shiller , or any other under bidder, I win.

Shilling sux.

We should embrace ebay turning into strictly marketplace-based. Eventually, high BIN prices for *every* listing will slow the ebay income machine enough where they will be forced to make some adjustments. Ebay never appears to be afraid to change. Hit 'em in the wallet, you'll see quick change.

In the meantime, we card collectors have plenty of other outlets to buy cards.
Even sellers have a big network of selling outlets.
Who needs eBay?

I spelled e-bay 5 different ways.
Ebay still sux.

Happy New Year!!

[steve B]

So if we demand honesty from card sellers then you are saying the baseball card market will dry up and blow away basically....okay - good riddance then. I have other hobbies.
I will remember not to bid on any auctions originating from Texas if this is the "accepted practice" down there. Why bother with an auction, just state your price and se what happens. Baseball cards are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them please remember they have no real value. I can't trade a t206 for my dinner tonight or go to Krogers and buy milk and eggs with some old T207's I don't want anymore. In order to be able to turn over these precious cards there has to be an interest in them. If people keep getting ripped off and keep hearing and reading about rip off artists on Ebay in in auction houses there will be no interest in collecting cards. I know I have curtailed my buyng and refuse to bid on ebay with certain sellers because of suspicious activity I have observed

Come by the bicycle shop I work for. I'll take T206s and T207s as payment. Probably a bunch of other cards as well. :D

Steve B

[probstein123]

Bidding on your own auction
I don't understand this, unless to drive up the bid prices..? Look at this Probstein123 listing which ends tonight...

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=380538844655

y***y (private) bid $189 on 12/18 - - only issue is y***y (private) won this very card on 12/2/12 for $355! (see below link)

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=251189941256

So he winds winning the card, consigns with Rick - and bids on his own card to drive more bids/up the price..?

==> hey ed, how are you ? I went back and looked at that auction...the winning bidder is not one of active 300 consignors...

[TNP777]

If you're referring to the winning bidder of the recently-ended auction, then you're not answering the question, Rick. The concern is that the person who won the first auction then consigned the card with you and subsequently ended up as one of the underbidders, more popularly known as a shill bidder.

See, this is your pattern. When there is a thread praising you, you're Johnny-on-the-spot. When there is a thread (and there have been many) that call into question sketchy bidding activity on your auctions, or your blatant spamming of the SC&MF on CU, or anything else negative, well then it's crickets. When you do bother to respond, you give some nebulous answer that's not an answer at all. Usually you give an answer that had nothing to do with the question. Heck, why respond when there's a darn good chance then thread will be locked, or posts selectively deleted, or best yet the whole thread disappears? Duck the tough but fair questions and wait for the Moderator-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named to simply delete the offending question and ban the asker.

[cincyredlegs]

If you're referring to the winning bidder of the recently-ended auction, then you're not answering the question, Rick. The concern is that the person who won the first auction then consigned the card with you and subsequently ended up as one of the underbidders, more popularly known as a shill bidder.

See, this is your pattern. When there is a thread praising you, you're Johnny-on-the-spot. When there is a thread (and there have been many) that call into question sketchy bidding activity on your auctions, or your blatant spamming of the SC&MF on CU, or anything else negative, well then it's crickets. When you do bother to respond, you give some nebulous answer that's not an answer at all. Usually you give an answer that had nothing to do with the question. Heck, why respond when there's a darn good chance then thread will be locked, or posts selectively deleted, or best yet the whole thread disappears? Duck the tough but fair questions and wait for the Moderator-That-Shall-Not-Be-Named to simply delete the offending question and ban the asker.

I guess I have figured out how he gets 20%-35% over VCP for alot of auctions.....just consign and bid your stuff up. There are to many smoking guns that have been uncovered on the boards to convince me otherwise.

Geordie you are right though, whenever we uncover shilling on Rick's auctions, you never hear from him or he doesn't answer your question. That speaks volumes to me.

Also to add, this seems like the next generation of selling. Send your stuff to consigment houses (whether ebay or auction houses) and bid your stuff up.

This is why I much rather prefer to buy off the boards or in person vs ebay if I can help it.

Mark

[Edwolf1963]

Hello all,

My question/issue in starting this thread was simply noting that the person who had recently won that card - y***y (private) or eBay ID "myboydannyroy67", appeared to have consigned that same card with Rick shortly thereafter and was then bidding on it - presumably to drive up bids.

I reported it to eBay and sent Rick a message at the time with the assumption he was unaware.

Obviously, whether or not myboydannyroy67 won the card was not the issue.

[probstein123]

whats the item # ? I'd like to go back and look at the bidders on that auction
thanks
rick

[Bugsy]

Maybe, maybe not. But the fact that this guy's got 43 bid retractions, and 78% or whatever it was bids with this seller - seems like more is going on than just a consignor bidding on his own items.

I mean, come on... This bidder has bid on 469 different auctions, 78% of them probstein's. That's bidding on almost 400 different probstein auctions! Surely that cannot be chalked up to just a shilling consignor. It's intentional, deliberate, and very clear what this bidder is doing.

That being said, shill bidding aside, nobody can ever force you to pay more for a card than you are willing to bid and pay for it.

I guess I would also like to know the reasoning behind this as well. If the same bidder had retracted 43 bids on my auctions, I wouldn't want them bidding on my listings. With such a high number of retractions by the same person, it certainly looks like the artificial manipulation of prices.

[Edwolf1963]

links and information are in the beginning of this thread.

[thehoodedcoder]

hi,

i will honestly say, i have bought a ton of cards from this guy. i have always felt i was over paying for the cards. all high grade t206s 5 and higher.

after reading this i just don't know how i can buy anything from this seller again. i actually would not want to bid on anything this seller may be consigning to someone else.

there were some higher dollar cards that went off at REA which are coming into question. im aware that they were owned by the seller prior to making their way into that auction.

is there any good way to determine that?

kevin

[atx840]

Please also look into this bidder, since my original post his % has dropped but he is still bidding on a good majority of your cards.

He has bids in 26/27 of your current auction T206 listings. Same with n***n(270)


Bidder Information
Bidder: s***s( 442)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Bids on this item: 3

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1041
Items bid on: 469
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 78%
Bid retractions: 3
Bid retractions (6 months): 42

[cincyredlegs]

My question is why are we doing all the detective work for Rick and he is not doing it himself. It's not like we haven't provided him dozens of examples (shill bidding and fake packs). It really isn't that hard and doesn't take as much work as some may think.

If I am running a business, the first time I hear of shady practices, I would put a process in place immediately to make sure it doesn't happen or limit to a bear minimum (understand you won't catch everyone everytime). That may be adding a person to monitor the bidding activity of my auctions. My reputation is worth more than a couple extra dollars in fees that I would make on ebay.

Mark

[TNP777]

Less than 10% of Rick's auctions are true auctions - the rest of his listings ate fixed price. Monitoring even those "few" auctions is probably more daunting than we think, but it would still be nice to see immediate emphatic action taken when shilling is exposed. Maybe Rick does take that action immediately, maybe not. It does seem that controversy swirls for quite some time before an appearance is made letting the board know it's been handled.

I've said it before across the street - Rick can run his business any way he darn well pleases. He's obviously doing something right, or a whole lot of somethings. Were it my business, though, I'd be all over it the instant improprieties became known, and I'd be vigorously informing my current and potential client base that I was doing everything possible to safeguard the integrity of my auctions.

[Sean1125]

I consign with Rick and the last thing I want is his items not getting bids because some consignors are not honest, but I don't think there is an EASY way to do it. I know there is a way but it will take Rick time and resources to get it figured out.

How do you propose he browses 2k listings at any one time cycling probably 10-20k a month? I'm being objective, you say he needs to do something but do not propose anything.

Edit*

Why not help to find a solution? I think it would benefit much more than just Rick and the consignor's if there was an easier, quicker way to figure out shill bidders. It would get items true prices and bidders would be more happy as well due to real deals every now and then.

[T206DK]

My question is why are we doing all the detective work for Rick and he is not doing it himself. It's not like we haven't provided him dozens of examples (shill bidding and fake packs). It really isn't that hard and doesn't take as much work as some may think.

If I am running a business, the first time I hear of shady practices, I would put a process in place immediately to make sure it doesn't happen or limit to a bear minimum (understand you won't catch everyone everytime). That may be adding a person to monitor the bidding activity of my auctions. My reputation is worth more than a couple extra dollars in fees that I would make on ebay.

Mark

In my opinion his posts on this thread are meant to show fake concern. Just say NO to shill bidding and these guys will have to go back to their real jobs

[trobba]

I consign with Rick and the last thing I want is his items not getting bids because some consignors are not honest, but I don't think there is an EASY way to do it. I know there is a way but it will take Rick time and resources to get it figured out.

How do you propose he browses 2k listings at any one time cycling probably 10-20k a month? I'm being objective, you say he needs to do something but do not propose anything.

Edit*

Why not help to find a solution? I think it would benefit much more than just Rick and the consignor's if there was an easier, quicker way to figure out shill bidders. It would get items true prices and bidders would be more happy as well due to real deals every now and then.

Solution:

accept less consignments and do it efficiently...economics 101

sounds like he is in jeopardy of losing his successful business practice so he needs to do something.

He can:

1. hire someone to go through his auctions and check for shill bidding

2. At least for the short term, accept fewer consignments. Once he gets a handle on the bidders and potential fishy bidding, he can slowly move to a larger scale. I am sure there is a number he can comfortably keep an eye on, and that should be his limit. Otherwise he has gotten too big to monitor all his auctions and that will slowly, or precipitously, lead to diminished returns and disappointed customers.

Seems like a small price to pay for regaining bidder faith and assuring the community of fair bidding and ethical selling.

3. The alternative is, of course, that he is "in" on some of this which would of course change everything...I am in no way suggesting this is the case, but it certainly would affect his willingness to make any real changes.

[TNP777]

Why not help to find a solution? I think it would benefit much more than just Rick and the consignor's if there was an easier, quicker way to figure out shill bidders. It would get items true prices and bidders would be more happy as well due to real deals every now and then.
Sean, how is my or anyone else's responsibility to help come up with a solution? Sure, I guess we can throw out suggestions, but only the auctioneer knows the inner workings of his business.

This is a loose comparison, but I'll make it anyway. We've all complained long and loud about how steroids have damaged the integrity of baseball. So instead of complaining about it, would you have baseball fans work closely with MLB to help them protect the integrity of the game? Again, it's not our responsibility to fix baseball - it is MLB's responsibility to let their customers know everything possible is being done to safeguard the integrity of their product.

Similarly, I believe it is the auctioneer's responsibility to make sure his current and prospective client base is assured that shilling is in no way acceptable and will be dealt with harshly. Obviously this is a difficult thing to tackle, but given the recent rash of proven shills I would think it would be somewhat of a priority.

[Bugsy]

I consign with Rick and the last thing I want is his items not getting bids because some consignors are not honest, but I don't think there is an EASY way to do it. I know there is a way but it will take Rick time and resources to get it figured out.

How do you propose he browses 2k listings at any one time cycling probably 10-20k a month? I'm being objective, you say he needs to do something but do not propose anything.

Edit*

Why not help to find a solution? I think it would benefit much more than just Rick and the consignor's if there was an easier, quicker way to figure out shill bidders. It would get items true prices and bidders would be more happy as well due to real deals every now and then.

1. A seller knows when there is a bid retraction. 40+ from the same bidder in a short period of time would send off red flags, no matter how big your operation is.

2. Is a consignor winning their own lots? Is the seller having to relist items because the consignor won the lot the first it was offered? That would not go by undetected either.

Either situation is artificial manipulation by one or more parties and the seller is an accomplice at best. I would just like to have these concerns addressed so that we can be reassured that this is not the case with Probstein auctions.

Thanks.

Chris

[cubsfan-budman]

At this point, I would definitely not consign with Probstein if I was in the market to do so. His responses seem to me to be dodging the issue and faking concern.

Sean, what do you propose he do about intentional fraud being perpetrated within his business? Nothing?!?

No way to run a business, imho.

[calvindog]

At this point, I would definitely not consign with Probstein if I was in the market to do so. His responses seem to me to be dodging the issue and faking concern.

Sean, what do you propose he do about intentional fraud being perpetrated within his business? Nothing?!?

No way to run a business, imho.

What incentive does an auctioneer have to stop fraud which directly increases his income? None. Unless he thinks he's a target of a criminal investigation or feels he will lose business if nothing is done. Morality, the good of the hobby, accurate valuations, concern that future buyers of similarly graded cards will be defrauded due to inflated prior auction results -- none of that factors in to the mix.

[Leon]

What incentive does an auctioneer have to stop fraud which directly increases his income? None. Unless he thinks he's a target of a criminal investigation or feels he will lose business if nothing is done. Morality, the good of the hobby, accurate valuations, concern that future buyers of similarly graded cards will be defrauded due to inflated prior auction results -- none of that factors in to the mix.

Actually I think morality, good of the hobby, accurate valuations and concern for future buyers are all very important. Karma is a mo-fo too ......

I realize and agree with the general sentiment though....

[cubsfan-budman]

I'm guessing there are some guys on this board that Probstein would love to have as customers that are becoming convinced that he's not the right guy to do business with.

[probstein123]

hi, guys, I did research on this bidder's name and this bidder is not one of my 300+ consignors...just some guy from Mississippi bidding....please feel free to contact me anytime if you think inappropriate bids are happening....we actively block bidders when things are brought to my attention...we are on pace to sell 100,000 items this year, averaging over 10,000 sales a month recently, so I am not actively reviewing every bid...ebay auctions ( especially mine ) are watched closely by " trust and safety " and often, people send us outside info as well....

best to call me, I'm not online all the time...
thanks
rick
973 747 6304

[atx840]

It's okay guys, Rick did his research...move along.

[T206DK]

Solution:

accept less consignments and do it efficiently...economics 101

sounds like he is in jeopardy of losing his successful business practice so he needs to do something.

He can:

1. hire someone to go through his auctions and check for shill bidding

2. At least for the short term, accept fewer consignments. Once he gets a handle on the bidders and potential fishy bidding, he can slowly move to a larger scale. I am sure there is a number he can comfortably keep an eye on, and that should be his limit. Otherwise he has gotten too big to monitor all his auctions and that will slowly, or precipitously, lead to diminished returns and disappointed customers.

Seems like a small price to pay for regaining bidder faith and assuring the community of fair bidding and ethical selling.

3. The alternative is, of course, that he is "in" on some of this which would of course change everything...I am in no way suggesting this is the case, but it certainly would affect his willingness to make any real changes.

SEE this is the problem here. Everyone is too willing to cut this guy a break EVERYTIME someone notices something fishy about his auctions. Just stop biding on them and he will dry up and blow away , or go back to working a real job. The more excuse you collectors make for dishonest dealers , the more they think they can get awau with. They know a certain segment of collectors will bid on their stuff whether there is shill biding going on or not. If you guys bid on Probsteins stuff ...more power to ya ! he and others like him will linger and sour this hobby for any newcomers.

[gnaz01]

It's okay guys, Rick did his research...move along.

:D

[Bpm0014]

9,999 a month....

I personally will never bid on anything he sells again. Mainly because he seems unapologetic and has not once addressed the big picture.

[whitehse]

9,999 a month....

I personally will never bid on anything he sells again. Mainly because he seems unapologetic and has not once addressed the big picture.

I does make one think twice before bidding on his auctions. I have purchased from him in the past but I cant help but wonder if I was shilled in some way. Sadly, this makes many bidders questions the practices that are in place in his auctions, regardless if Rick is involved with the bidding issues or not. I do find it hard to believe that he is shilling these auctions himself but I think it is too easy for the consigners to push the auctions prices with no checks put in place to prevent this practice.

[Runscott]

What incentive does an auctioneer have to stop fraud which directly increases his income? None. Unless he thinks he's a target of a criminal investigation or feels he will lose business if nothing is done. Morality, the good of the hobby, accurate valuations, concern that future buyers of similarly graded cards will be defrauded due to inflated prior auction results -- none of that factors in to the mix.

An unethical auctioneer has none. No surprise that ebay has changed their software over the years to make fraud discovery more difficult, as such fraud increases their profits as well.

[thehoodedcoder]

hi, guys, I did research on this bidder's name and this bidder is not one of my 300+ consignors...just some guy from Mississippi bidding....please feel free to contact me anytime if you think inappropriate bids are happening....we actively block bidders when things are brought to my attention...we are on pace to sell 100,000 items this year, averaging over 10,000 sales a month recently, so I am not actively reviewing every bid...ebay auctions ( especially mine ) are watched closely by " trust and safety " and often, people send us outside info as well....

best to call me, I'm not online all the time...
thanks
rick
973 747 6304


how am the only person who is understanding this concept?:

everything is ok? we looked, we are not in on it, neither is anyone else. trust me when i tell you nothing is wrong.

are you serious? let me continue this: his name was bob jumbolaya. he sounded like he was 29 years old-ish when we spoke on the phone and he typed with a overseas z to s replacement even though he was from the greater mississippi area. do you believe me now that i have told you all of this? of course not. you could be a compulsive liar for all we know.

when someone questions your level of trust with evidence you need to refute with evidence.

you are fighting a trust and evidence issue with only a rquest to trust? that is a falacy. i feel bad enough for anyone who believes what you just said without evidence that you are in fact 1) telliing the truth and 2) you did the diligence people are assuming you did.

add real proof. take a screen shot. trust someone on here to examine the evidence and testify you are giving accurate statements.

kevin

[Sean1125]

Sean, how is my or anyone else's responsibility to help come up with a solution? Sure, I guess we can throw out suggestions, but only the auctioneer knows the inner workings of his business.

This is a loose comparison, but I'll make it anyway. We've all complained long and loud about how steroids have damaged the integrity of baseball. So instead of complaining about it, would you have baseball fans work closely with MLB to help them protect the integrity of the game? Again, it's not our responsibility to fix baseball - it is MLB's responsibility to let their customers know everything possible is being done to safeguard the integrity of their product.

Similarly, I believe it is the auctioneer's responsibility to make sure his current and prospective client base is assured that shilling is in no way acceptable and will be dealt with harshly. Obviously this is a difficult thing to tackle, but given the recent rash of proven shills I would think it would be somewhat of a priority.

Sorry for not being clear, I meant to give suggestions rather than a solution. I believe it is up to Rick to come up with a solution because ultimately he is responsible, but if anyone has any insight that they think would be helpful it would be nice to have it.

Edit: As a comparison to the steroids ordeal I would use "fan feedback" - everyone will have their opinions and I believe most would be willing to give it. I am not saying he will even use them but there might be an "ah-ha" moment on one of them.

[thehoodedcoder]

hi,

here is another auction that is sure to go for high dollar amount. i started scanning some of the bidders.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370744120138?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

check it out and let me know what you think.

kevin

[MikeU]

Always trying to beat down the successful. If you would all follow the attached, you could be successful yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFYX65R4sXI

[T205 GB]

Always trying to beat down the successful. If you would all follow the attached, you could be successful yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFYX65R4sXI

Sounds like you have an invested interest. Why else would you condone this type of activity?

[smtjoy]

lol Nice 1 feedback bidder with 51% with this seller and putting out 97 bids the last 30 days, year right.......

[MikeU]

lol Nice 1 feedback bidder with 51% with this seller and putting out 97 bids the last 30 days, year right.......

They are not even shilling like a professional. They don't even have a bid retraction yet:)

[thehoodedcoder]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T205-Gold-Border-Kirby-Kirb-White-Pittsburgh-Pirates-PSA-6-EX-MT-/360591400935?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item53f4ec1fe7


Bidding Details
Bidder Information
Bidder: n***y( 628)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: Item Title: T205 Gold Border Kirby Kirb White Pittsburgh Pirates PSA 6 EX-MT
Bids on this item: 1
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 444
Items bid on: 414
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 46%
Bid retractions: 1
Bid retractions (6 months): 104

kevin quinn

[Runscott]

How I handle 'odd' bidding patterns that might appear to be shilling to other potential bidders:

I had a pool cue I was selling jump from $86 to $156 last week, which I thought was curious (yes, as a seller I monitor the bidding on my items - imagine that! :eek:).

I checked the bidding history and a 0-feedback bidder had bid a tiny bit at a time, repeatedly, until he just edged out the former leader.

I retracted all of his bids, blocked his i.d. and sent him a pleasant message telling him that I didn't mind his bidding, but it looked a little odd and I wanted an explanation. If he could give me one, I would reinstate him and would love to see him bidding.
I then sent a message to the new leading bidder, apologizing for what might have been okay bidding, but assuring him that I monitor such things closely and everything in my auctions is legitimate.

Obviously I know the guy wasn't a shill bidder, since it's my own auction. My suspicions when these things happen, is that it could be someone I've had a run-in with on a discussion board - yep, there are some who will NEVER let anything go, and revenge, even on the internet over a discussion, is as good as their life gets. But even if it's just a new bidder who hasn't a clue how to behave on ebay, it still looks bad to other bidders, so I have to take some sort of action. If the bidder explains themselves, then I reinstate them and we go on our merry way (it's happened :)).

But this guy explained himself just as I expected him to. It was a past bidder who had been such a pita that I had blocked his other i.d. If someone really wants a bite out of you, they will find a way to get it.

[lsutigers1973]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T205-Gold-Border-Kirby-Kirb-White-Pittsburgh-Pirates-PSA-6-EX-MT-/360591400935?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item53f4ec1fe7


Bidding Details
Bidder Information
Bidder: n***y( 628)
Feedback: 100%Positive
Item description: Item Title: T205 Gold Border Kirby Kirb White Pittsburgh Pirates PSA 6 EX-MT
Bids on this item: 1
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 444
Items bid on: 414
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 46%
Bid retractions: 1
Bid retractions (6 months): 104

kevin quinn


Same auction:


30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1482
Items bid on: 1006
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 20%
Bid retractions: 1
Bid retractions (6 months): 41

[ScottFandango]

the recent drama had me thinking...and i searched some old threads...

my head is spinning! seems like once a month there is a thread about Probstien and his alleged schilling...its thread after thread...

why is this guy always involved in some alleged wrongful activity...

why is it the "biggest" sellers always seem to have the most potential issues:mad:

now his association with JOE....i thought he was not gonna do business with this guy Joe anymore.....

mr Probstien, WHAT IS YOUR RESPONSE?