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diamondicons
12-04-2012, 10:59 PM
Looking for thoughts on a Clemente signature that has been in my collection for years. Originated from Lelands in 1991. I recently sold the piece to a collector who took it to a show and JSA rejected it. The twist to the story is they (JSA) asked him to come back to a future show, bring the Lelands COA and they would relook the item. Appreciate the forums thoughts. Thanks, Mike

joed25
12-04-2012, 11:08 PM
Looks a little off to me

diamondicons
12-18-2012, 07:09 PM
Anyone else have any thoughts on this Clemente. Thanks!

mighty bombjack
12-18-2012, 07:27 PM
I wouldn't buy it.

shelly
12-18-2012, 10:53 PM
Looks like a Marino piece.

thetruthisoutthere
12-19-2012, 03:57 PM
Forgery.

chaddurbin
12-19-2012, 04:16 PM
tough spot. it's been so long but let's see if leland will step up.

travrosty
12-19-2012, 05:59 PM
they give a 5 year window on authenticity, so looks like it came up snake eyes.

shelly
12-19-2012, 06:09 PM
I would like to know how anyone can tell if the cert matches the autograph?:confused:

diamondicons
12-19-2012, 06:39 PM
Most recent authentication was from Mike Gutierrez. Also, came with COA from EAC Gallery.

jgmp123
12-19-2012, 07:35 PM
These are three exemplars of early Clemente signatures....
Feel free to come to your own conclusions....

diamondicons
12-29-2012, 09:07 AM
Clemente autograph was resubmitted to JSA and passed.

JimStinson
12-29-2012, 09:45 AM
So it went from being "Authentic" to "Not Authentic" back to "Authentic" then "Not Authentic" and full circle now to "Authentic" again....:)
I'm just curious has the cost of this metamorphosis eclipsed the price of the actual autograph yet ?? Does anyone else see the humor here ? :)
________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

JimStinson
12-29-2012, 11:47 AM
I wish Ray was still alive he would have gotten it right the first time
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jim@stinsonsports.com

baseballart
12-29-2012, 11:55 AM
I can't add anything to the debate on authenticity, but I did find it somewhat amusing that Mr. Gutierrez believes that Roberto Clemente signed the piece in his own handwriting. I'm not sure how he could have signed it in someone else's handwriting. :rolleyes:

Max

HRBAKER
12-29-2012, 02:27 PM
So it went from being "Authentic" to "Not Authentic" back to "Authentic" then "Not Authentic" and full circle now to "Authentic" again....:)
I'm just curious has the cost of this metamorphosis eclipsed the price of the actual autograph yet ?? Does anyone else see the humor here ? :)


________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

It's a great business model isn't it?
All opinions are subject to change, the only thing they will guarantee is that you will be charged. :)
At least we know this, at one point they were right.

thetruthisoutthere
12-29-2012, 02:46 PM
Clemente autograph was resubmitted to JSA and passed.

Unbelievable.

chaddurbin
12-29-2012, 03:03 PM
OP are you going to hold onto it now or try to flip it asap? :)

drc
12-29-2012, 03:21 PM
" I'm not sure how he could have signed it in someone else's handwriting."

I suppose someone could sign with an autopen

diamondicons
12-29-2012, 05:22 PM
I sold the piece over a month ago and the buyer maintained ownership until he had JSA re-look the piece. This is an interesting debate. About a year ago I consigned a 1956 Boston Red Sox Team signed baseball to Hunt Auctions. Came with Spence signed full COA when he was working for PSA/DNA. Item was returned to me because this time Spence, operating under his own company JSA, determined the Ted Williams was a clubhouse. Don't know if David Hunt questioned him or not on changing his opinion. I think I'm going to start my own authentication business.

JimStinson
12-29-2012, 06:38 PM
For a business Its a good idea and very low start up expense ...all you need is a coin (a penny will do) and when you recieve your submissions just flip it. You'll be right half of the time.
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jim@stinsonsports.com

travrosty
12-30-2012, 12:52 AM
when it failed the first time and jsa asked for the person to bring it to a future show and BRING THE LELANDS COA and they will relook the item. what i don't get is why they need the guy to bring the lelands coa? how does that change the autograph?

how would the lelands coa change anyones mind when you are suppose to be authenticating autographs, not provenance or other peoples opinions or piggybacking their coa's?

Exhibitman
12-30-2012, 10:35 AM
For a business Its a good idea and very low start up expense ...all you need is a coin (a penny will do) and when you recieve your submissions just flip it. You'll be right half of the time.
____________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

That's funny but incorrect. 50:50 assumes a single answer to the question with the result being dependent solely on how the flip goes. In other words, only if all are genuine or all are forged do you have a 50:50 chance of hitting the right answer with a flip [well, almost; there is an infinitesimal chance it will land on the edge and stick; see Twilight Zone]. In this case there are two answers to the question--genuine or forged. If there is a mix of genuine and forged items the independent variable makes the flip unreliable.

travrosty
01-03-2013, 01:27 AM
jim is right, 50-50 chance.

it doesnt matter if the item is forged or real, if you flip, you got a 50=50 chance of getting it right, dont overthink it.

travrosty
01-03-2013, 01:27 AM
jim is right, 50-50 chance.

it doesnt matter if the item is forged or real, if you flip, you got a 50=50 chance of getting it right, dont overthink it.