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dogmechanic
12-03-2012, 10:41 PM
I am a brand new member. Where have you guys been? I guess you can post autos here and get other people's opinion. What do you think about selling and buying from R&R. Seems reputable. Most Psadna approved.
I love this forum

HOF Auto Rookies
12-03-2012, 11:28 PM
I am a brand new member. Where have you guys been? I guess you can post autos here and get other people's opinion. What do you think about selling and buying from R&R. Seems reputable. Most Psadna approved.
I love this forum

Which R and R? Theirs a legit auction house that is very reputable

drc
12-04-2012, 01:19 AM
There was a thread about them perhaps 2 weeks ago, and they got good reviews.

Mr. Zipper
12-04-2012, 06:52 AM
RR located in New Hampshire is a very reputable auction house.

I believe there was also a R and R that is a small local auction somewhere else. Don't know about them.

RichardSimon
12-04-2012, 08:52 AM
RR is an autograph auction house in NH, I am not aware of R and R.
RR has a solid reputation.

travrosty
12-04-2012, 09:36 AM
RR located in New Hampshire is a very reputable auction house.

I believe there was also a R and R that is a small local auction somewhere else. Don't know about them.



the guy said he's a brand new member, and you don't care to disclose you are an authenticator for rr auction? It's bias and conflict of interest whether it affects your opinion of them or not.

of course it will get glowing reviews from an authenticator who works for them. I suppose jsa is great too, you do them too? Press Y for yes.

I prefer Alexander historical auctions for historical and I do not authenticate for them. RR auction leaves much to be desired in my personal opinion.

Mr. Zipper
12-04-2012, 10:34 AM
the guy said he's a brand new member, and you don't care to disclose you are an authenticator for rr auction? It's bias and conflict of interest whether it affects your opinion of them or not.

of course it will get glowing reviews from an authenticator who works for them. I suppose jsa is great too, you do them too? Press Y for yes.

I prefer Alexander historical auctions for historical and I do not authenticate for them. RR auction leaves much to be desired in my personal opinion.

Yes, I am a space and aviation consultant for RR and JSA. I have stated that numerous times here and elsewhere. I apologize if I failed to include that disclaimer this one time and if it caused you any undue distress.

Of course I am going to speak highly of RR, I think they are good people and I enjoy being part of the team. They provide high quality auctions and top notch customer service. This is evidenced by the prices they attain and a large, loyal client base.

Runscott
12-04-2012, 11:05 AM
Yes, I am a space and aviation consultant for RR and JSA. I have stated that numerous times here and elsewhere. I apologize if I failed to include that disclaimer this one time and if it caused you any undue distress.

Of course I am going to speak highly of RR, I think they are good people and I enjoy being part of the team. They provide high quality auctions and top notch customer service. This is evidenced by the prices they attain and a large, loyal client base.

Yep, especially last week's space and aviation auction that I had been waiting on for weeks, then came up short on every single item :(

drc
12-04-2012, 01:48 PM
..

toybulldog
12-05-2012, 05:51 PM
What do you think about selling and buying from R&R. Seems reputable. Most Psadna approved. I love this forum

I've purchased items from them but realize that just because it comes from an auction house and is "PSA/DNA approved" does not mean that the autograph is genuine. Here is a poor attempt at the signature of boxer Joe Louis currently being auctioned by them. Easily detectible by the average collector of boxing autographs yet is tagged:

Pre-certified Steve Grad/PSA/DNA and RR Auction COA.

http://www.fighttoys.com/Louis,Joe%20non%20authentic%2022a%20SR.jpg
http://www.fighttoys.com/Louis,Joe%20non%20authentic%2022b%20SR.jpg

http://www.rrauction.com/bidtracker_detail.cfm?IN=1589

I do have to give them credit though for removing PSA/DNA items in the past which have included their non-evidence based "pre certified" or "full LOA" description when given evidence to the contrary.

The Joe Frazier passport is a fantastic item in their current offerings:

http://www.rrauction.com/bidtracker_detail.cfm?IN=1464

Best,
Mark O.

travrosty
12-05-2012, 09:27 PM
[QUOTE=toybulldog;1059420]I've purchased items from them but realize that just because it comes from an auction house and is "PSA/DNA approved" does not mean that the autograph is genuine. Here is a poor attempt at the signature of boxer Joe Louis currently being auctioned by them. Easily detectible by the average collector of boxing autographs yet is tagged:

Pre-certified Steve Grad/PSA/DNA and RR Auction COA.



but it is precertified steve grad!!!

and for only 75 bucks you too can get the "real loa" that says its real so you can have a real joe louis per psa!

Runscott
12-05-2012, 09:29 PM
Mark, the PSA/DNA pre-cert is a problem for all auction houses that use it - not just this one.

Unless 'pre-cert' means "we stand behind this real", then it's worthless. The fact that so many forgeries have the 'pre-certified' tag is the fault of collectors for putting up with it.

Just my opinion (and I'll issue a certificate stating such).

travrosty
12-05-2012, 09:58 PM
its a big problem in my book, and the collector puts up with it because a lot of them dont know how the auction house and psa or jsa authenticates autographs. they want the cert and how the sausage is made is secondary.

steve grad, the pre-eminent joe louis authenticator? survey says????

dogmechanic
12-05-2012, 10:01 PM
Ok , this is the new guy again. After reading this "Who"s Your Daddy". just who do you trust? How do you find out if something is authentic . I never even sign my own name exactly the same every time. Think about this. Where is the sanity? Been collecting auto jerseys for 15 + years. One minute I think I am on top of the world then like now I think I might Have bought someone's "underwear". What a hobby. Love it just don't know why sometime

Runscott
12-05-2012, 10:13 PM
Ok , this is the new guy again. After reading this "Who"s Your Daddy". just who do you trust? How do you find out if something is authentic . I never even sign my own name exactly the same every time. Think about this. Where is the sanity? Been collecting auto jerseys for 15 + years. One minute I think I am on top of the world then like now I think I might Have bought someone's "underwear". What a hobby. Love it just don't know why sometime

First of all, based on the evidence I've seen, the 'pre-cert' letter just means that at first glance the autograph looks real. Of course, any good forger can accomplish enough to make his work look good at first glance. I get the 'pre-cert' thing when it's a large lot of autographs - to me that means they'll get around to looking at the individual ones later. But they damned well better do it at some point, or they have no business certifying any of the autographs.

So before you buy something, you need to do what you thought the certifier was doing for you: compare to known exemplars and make up your own mind as to how likely it is that the autograph is real. If the autograph doesn't look like the player's 'normal' signature, and you still want to buy it, go find an example of the 'oddball' signature. If you can't, and you've got any sense at all, don't buy it. I've heard people here say, "Yeah, but you'd sign funny too right after a stroke." ...and various other comments as to the state of the player at different times in his life. Yes, I would. So simply show me one more example of that post-stroke autograph and I'll eat crow.

I'm with Travis on this one.

toybulldog
12-06-2012, 06:47 PM
Ok , this is the new guy again. After reading this "Who"s Your Daddy". just who do you trust? How do you find out if something is authentic . I never even sign my own name exactly the same every time. Think about this. Where is the sanity? Been collecting auto jerseys for 15 + years. One minute I think I am on top of the world then like now I think I might Have bought someone's "underwear". What a hobby. Love it just don't know why sometime

Nobody's daddy, in this case just comparing to an extensive exemplar file of over 360 Louis signatures and after doing so acquiring the opinion that this is an amateurish attempt of duplicating Joe Louis' signature of the mid 1960's to the early 1970's. Too many conflicts of interest in this hobby to trust anyone, proceed with caution when it comes to this TPA game.

http://www.fighttoys.com/Louis,Joe%20234%20late%201960s%20comparison%201%20 SR.jpg

Hanky panky?

Plinvestments
12-06-2012, 06:53 PM
First of all, based on the evidence I've seen, the 'pre-cert' letter just means that at first glance the autograph looks real. Of course, any good forger can accomplish enough to make his work look good at first glance. I get the 'pre-cert' thing when it's a large lot of autographs - to me that means they'll get around to looking at the individual ones later. But they damned well better do it at some point, or they have no business certifying any of the autographs.

So before you buy something, you need to do what you thought the certifier was doing for you: compare to known exemplars and make up your own mind as to how likely it is that the autograph is real. If the autograph doesn't look like the player's 'normal' signature, and you still want to buy it, go find an example of the 'oddball' signature. If you can't, and you've got any sense at all, don't buy it. I've heard people here say, "Yeah, but you'd sign funny too right after a stroke." ...and various other comments as to the state of the player at different times in his life. Yes, I would. So simply show me one more example of that post-stroke autograph and I'll eat crow.

I'm with Travis on this one.

Pre-cert by PSA means that it will always pass if you pay for the full LOA. A pre-cert by JSA is a cursary glance.

Runscott
12-06-2012, 07:01 PM
Pre-cert by PSA means that it will always pass if you pay for the full LOA. A pre-cert by JSA is a cursary glance.

I just purchased a large lot that has a pre-cert by PSA/DNA - after checking each autograph carefully (there were around 60), I stated that I felt that at least one of them was a forgery, and probably three. At my request they double-checked one of them and said it was good. I still feel strongly that it is a forgery, but not much else I can do. My concern is that if one is a forgery, it casts doubt on all of them.

I also feel that the one they supposedly double-checked is so obviously a forgery, that there is no possible way that they actually looked at it again when I asked. But, on the other hand, autograph collectors' acceptance of the PSA/DNA pre-cert as gospel truth, is what I think has led to this.

The cost involved for me was trivial, but what I learned from the process was huge.

Plinvestments
12-07-2012, 04:03 PM
I just purchased a large lot that has a pre-cert by PSA/DNA - after checking each autograph carefully (there were around 60), I stated that I felt that at least one of them was a forgery, and probably three. At my request they double-checked one of them and said it was good. I still feel strongly that it is a forgery, but not much else I can do. My concern is that if one is a forgery, it casts doubt on all of them.

I also feel that the one they supposedly double-checked is so obviously a forgery, that there is no possible way that they actually looked at it again when I asked. But, on the other hand, autograph collectors' acceptance of the PSA/DNA pre-cert as gospel truth, is what I think has led to this.

The cost involved for me was trivial, but what I learned from the process was huge.

If you take that perceived forgery and pay PSA, they will issue a full LOA.

Runscott
12-07-2012, 06:56 PM
If you take that perceived forgery and pay PSA, they will issue a full LOA.

Well, I'll run right out and do that, because I sure as heck want a full LOA for each of my forgeries.