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View Full Version : Willie Mays Conspiracy Theory


jimjim
12-03-2012, 11:07 AM
I have had this thought for some time, but never asked for opinions and maybe you guys have the answer.

I find it odd that the Willie Mays in-person autos I have seen from recent card shows are sloppy and not aligned (which makes sense since he is almost blind), and the autos authenticated by Say Hey always look perfect and sell for a fraction of his in-person prices.

Has anybody ever seen him sign for Say Hey? Is that really his company?

Just wondering...

isaac2004
12-03-2012, 11:11 AM
I have had this thought for some time, but never asked for opinions and maybe you guys have the answer.

I find it odd that the Willie Mays in-person autos I have seen from recent card shows are sloppy and not aligned (which makes sense since he is almost blind), and the autos authenticated by Say Hey always look perfect and sell for a fraction of his in-person prices.

Has anybody ever seen him sign for Say Hey? Is that really his company?

Just wondering...

I would not be shocked if they had 1000s of balls he signed years ago in a warehouse waiting to be put in the market. When he ultimately cannot sign anymore, you will see way more of them

joed25
12-03-2012, 11:32 AM
I have seen a number of Willie Mays baseballs with say hey holograms that are fakes.

jimjim
12-03-2012, 11:36 AM
I have seen a number of Willie Mays baseballs with say hey holograms that are fakes.

Can you please explain?

cubsfan-budman
12-03-2012, 01:21 PM
I would not be shocked if they had 1000s of balls he signed years ago in a warehouse waiting to be put in the market. When he ultimately cannot sign anymore, you will see way more of them

Musial has a similar "warehouse" full of his autos.

jimjim
12-03-2012, 02:25 PM
Musial has a similar "warehouse" full of his autos.

I am not so sure about that. If you look at the quality of the signatures that are coming out of St. Louis, they look like they have been recently signed. If they had a warehouse of items that were signed prior to his illness, then why aren't we seeing any of them? I am sure there are some items that are in back stock, but most of the autographed baseballs that are now being sold have barely legible signatures indicating they were signed recently.

cubsfan-budman
12-03-2012, 02:31 PM
I hear what you're saying...but I know for sure that there are "Stan the Man" hologram'd items that Musial has in storage that are for sale as well.

jgmp123
12-03-2012, 03:03 PM
I hear what you're saying...but I know for sure that there are "Stan the Man" hologram'd items that Musial has in storage that are for sale as well.

You mean that Musial's kids have in storage....

Mr. Zipper
12-03-2012, 03:22 PM
I am not so sure about that. If you look at the quality of the signatures that are coming out of St. Louis, they look like they have been recently signed. If they had a warehouse of items that were signed prior to his illness, then why aren't we seeing any of them? I am sure there are some items that are in back stock, but most of the autographed baseballs that are now being sold have barely legible signatures indicating they were signed recently.

The latest Stan sigs I saw from Steiner were quite sad.

That said, I suppose they may have stockpiled a family inventory that has not been released. Joe DiMaggio signed a ton of items that were expressly for the purpose of release after his death.

isaac2004
12-03-2012, 03:32 PM
The latest Stan sigs I saw from Steiner were quite sad.

That said, I suppose they may have stockpiled a family inventory that has not been released. Joe DiMaggio signed a ton of items that were expressly for the purpose of release after his death.

I could not imagine how sad that conversation probably went. Happened to Williams too, when will people step in and stop these families from abusing elderly legends for their valuable signatures, even to the point to make them sign all day knowing that the item will be worth more after the player passes.

Makes me sick

sylbry
12-03-2012, 05:03 PM
I could not imagine how sad that conversation probably went. Happened to Williams too, when will people step in and stop these families from abusing elderly legends for their valuable signatures, even to the point to make them sign all day knowing that the item will be worth more after the player passes.

Makes me sick

Player's kid: Hey dad. I bought 2,000 baseballs. Can you spend some time and sign these over the next few weeks.

Player: Why do you need me to sign 2,000 baseballs?

Player's kid: To sell, of course.

Player: How about I sign 50? When you sell those I will sign 50 more. Seems to make more sense that way.

Player's kid: I don't mean sell now. I figured I will wait until your dead then I can charge more. Don't want to miss out on that golden opportunity.

cubsfan-budman
12-03-2012, 05:30 PM
I'm not a father, but I can imagine a situation where the parent wants to do something so that their kids have a nest egg or whatever after their death.

Some people buy life insurance, some people sign baseballs.

Maybe there's been some news story about the Musial kids or the Mays kids being greedy...I don't know.

I do know that Bobby Doerr still signs and he's the oldest HOFer out there...and he does it for free. Maybe it reminds him of the "good ol' days".

Too hard to know to pass too much judgement.

Mr. Zipper
12-03-2012, 06:59 PM
I could not imagine how sad that conversation probably went. Happened to Williams too, when will people step in and stop these families from abusing elderly legends for their valuable signatures, even to the point to make them sign all day knowing that the item will be worth more after the player passes.

Makes me sick

Well, with DiMaggio it was all HIM! It appears he took great pride in knowing the big bucks things would go for after his passing.

Joe DiMaggio: The Hero's Life goes into great detail about Joe D's autograph deals. A fascinating read.

baseball111
12-12-2012, 07:25 PM
Having a ball he signed years ago and selling them more recently is the only way I would believe they were authentic. How can you go from a flawless sig to a sloppy inscription?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Willie-Mays-Signed-MLB-Baseball-1954-World-Series-Say-Hey-Hologram-Giants-HOF-/120873451450?pt=US_Autographs&hash=item1c249e7fba

Exhibitman
12-12-2012, 08:23 PM
If I could crap money just by signing my name I'd stockpile items for my daughter to sell after I died so she could cash in. Seems like a nice legacy to leave to one's family.

Danny Smith
12-12-2012, 09:09 PM
Wow. That is awful.

Having a ball he signed years ago and selling them more recently is the only way I would believe they were authentic. How can you go from a flawless sig to a sloppy inscription?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Willie-Mays-Signed-MLB-Baseball-1954-World-Series-Say-Hey-Hologram-Giants-HOF-/120873451450?pt=US_Autographs&hash=item1c249e7fba

EvilKing00
12-12-2012, 10:27 PM
I'm not a father, but I can imagine a situation where the parent wants to do something so that their kids have a nest egg or whatever after their death.

Some people buy life insurance, some people sign baseballs.

Maybe there's been some news story about the Musial kids or the Mays kids being greedy...I don't know.

I do know that Bobby Doerr still signs and he's the oldest HOFer out there...and he does it for free. Maybe it reminds him of the "good ol' days".

Too hard to know to pass too much judgement.

i am a father, and if i could sign balls to help my son in his future after im gone i would sign balls all day long.

HOF Auto Rookies
12-19-2012, 03:29 PM
Having a ball he signed years ago and selling them more recently is the only way I would believe they were authentic. How can you go from a flawless sig to a sloppy inscription?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Willie-Mays-Signed-MLB-Baseball-1954-World-Series-Say-Hey-Hologram-Giants-HOF-/120873451450?pt=US_Autographs&hash=item1c249e7fba

I don't think Mays did that inscription, just look at the pressure of the pen, two different hands

bender07
12-20-2012, 09:39 AM
I don't think Mays did that inscription, just look at the pressure of the pen, two different hands

I have to disagree. As others have mentioned, I think this is an example where they took an 'old' autograph and him Willie add the inscription to increase the value recently. Willie's 81 with terrible vision so I'm not surprised that his sig and inscription look vastly different.

HOF Auto Rookies
12-20-2012, 12:19 PM
I have to disagree. As others have mentioned, I think this is an example where they took an 'old' autograph and him Willie add the inscription to increase the value recently. Willie's 81 with terrible vision so I'm not surprised that his sig and inscription look vastly different.

Good point, but would they go through the trouble of maybe paying to just have that inscription since he charges out of the a$$

JimStinson
12-20-2012, 01:06 PM
My kids ask me for my autograph all of the time.....but its always on CHECKS !:(
_______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

jimjim
03-27-2016, 06:40 AM
Resurrecting an old thread. Any updates on this question?

I came across the below thread on another website from a few years ago.

http://live.autographmagazine.com/forum/topics/say-hey-willie-mays-holograms?id=3524372%3ATopic%3A452354&page=1#comments

thetruthisoutthere
03-27-2016, 07:23 AM
Can you please explain?

There are also a ton of Jeter forgeries with Steiner holograms and the sellers NEVER have the Steiner cert card.

jimjim
03-27-2016, 07:24 AM
I wonder if that is why Steiner has changed their hologram sticker that now has a serial number on it.

RichardSimon
03-27-2016, 08:49 AM
Reading the thread on the other site the one thing I find most amusing/interesting is that these questionable Willie Mays autographs originate in Florida. What an amazing coincidence.
What once was the Sunshine State is now the state with a VERY dark cloud over it, for multiple reasons.

thetruthisoutthere
03-27-2016, 08:56 AM
Reading the thread on the other site the one thing I find most amusing/interesting is that these questionable Willie Mays autographs originate in Florida. What an amazing coincidence.
What once was the Sunshine State is now the state with a VERY dark cloud over it, for multiple reasons.

+100

All of that GFA-certed crap (both the machine-produced and hand-penned forgeries) originate from Florida.

1952boyntoncollector
03-27-2016, 09:00 AM
I could not imagine how sad that conversation probably went. Happened to Williams too, when will people step in and stop these families from abusing elderly legends for their valuable signatures, even to the point to make them sign all day knowing that the item will be worth more after the player passes.

Makes me sick

Death part of life...even funeral parlors guilt widows to buy the luxury coffin and charge for many other extras..

jimjim
03-27-2016, 09:02 AM
So are the TPAs just denying anything with a Willie Mays say hey hologram on it? That would be unfortunate, as the company was once legitimate on the not too distant past. I have a couple of items with a say hey hologram on them.

RichardSimon
03-27-2016, 09:34 AM
There are also a ton of Jeter forgeries with Steiner holograms and the sellers NEVER have the Steiner cert card.

AH, a whole new branch of the industry has opened up. The hologram forger.
How nice of them to share their skills with the rest of us. :(:(:(
I am waiting for an auction on ebay to appear offering these holograms.
"Create your own fakes, Opening Bid $9.99."

RichardSimon
03-27-2016, 09:38 AM
So are the TPAs just denying anything with a Willie Mays say hey hologram on it? That would be unfortunate, as the company was once legitimate on the not too distant past. I have a couple of items with a say hey hologram on them.

From my reading, of the Autograph Magazine thread, it appears that PAAS was denying the hologram autographs and JSA and PSA were authenticating them.
Please correct me if I missed something.

thetruthisoutthere
03-27-2016, 09:43 AM
My kids ask me for my autograph all of the time.....but its always on CHECKS !:(
_______________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Can I have one, Jim...:)

Klrdds
03-27-2016, 12:38 PM
Let's face it fellow autograph collectors after the aging paper and ink techniques appeared mainstream 75-80 years ago and then laser printers and good quality photographic reproduction techniques and products appeared and then fake LOAs appeared and then substiting items in cases started wouldn't the next natural evolutionary step in autograph forgery be a counterfeit / copied hologram . Should we really be surprised that this is now occurring ?
Autographs have been forged for how many years 100-200 going back to Presidential and Royalty signatures ?
As in so many cases the criminal will always find a way to evolve in order to sell their products and in most cases are already planning their next foray into the hobby despite our best efforts to stop them .
You can't wipe out forgers in our hobby any more than you can rid the world of rats or roaches....they adapt and continue despite our best efforts .
Be vigilant and educate yourselves is still the best advice .

RichardSimon
03-27-2016, 01:41 PM
Can I have one, Jim...:)

He is a generous guy. Ya' never know :D.

earlywynnfan
04-04-2016, 11:41 AM
http://www.cleansweepauctions.com/images/main/ssballwilliemays524400.jpg

So here's a recent auto that looks appropriate for a man of his age and condition, but looks nothing like the Say Hey hologram ones.

Just putting it out there.

Baseball Fan
04-17-2016, 08:08 PM
I attached my Willie Mays with his hologram and a PSA sticker. Always just assumed it was real but due to this thread maybe not. Just thought I'd contribute this as another example for people to decide if they think these are fake.