1972 Topps Venzuelan

[sschauer]

I was wondering if anyone has noticed font differences in this set see the photos below. There has been a distinct increase of these hitting the market and always had a feeling they might not be totally legit but might also just be printing in Venezuela wasn't an exact science or 2 different runs/plants. But there is clearly a difference in font and in general I think ones on the right are real and the ones on the left are the newer/2nd printing. So do I now have to get both variations for a master set? Only other difference I saw is left and right borders are thicker on the ones on the right.



http://4192cards.com/rose/temp/1972venzrose.jpg
http://4192cards.com/rose/temp/72venezuelanyaz.jpg
http://4192cards.com/rose/temp/image0-030.jpg

[ALR-bishop]

I know nothing about these but know a guy who collects them all and will ask him if he has any input for you.

I see he already responded on CU

[sschauer]

Here is response from CU forum A761506 -

All of my Venezuela information comes straight from a combination of sources I have and/or have had in Venezuela over the past decade+ that I have been collecting Venezuelan cards.

Any information I have I always verify with another source before I consider it to be valid. At least two of my contacts have verified that there were issues with the printer in 1972 and a secondary printer was used. Since text was not printed in the same manner as an image (images were printed using a halftone process, while black text was printed in solid ink as a separate process), font faces before the development of the home computer were extremely limited, so while one printer had a certain one, another had one that was similar but not identical.

These cards were never printed by Topps. It is highly likely that they were unlicensed and the images were simply stolen and copied.

Seems very plausible so now we all need 2 variations of the rarest cards of the 70s :)

[sschauer]

From the discussion over on PSA board had a census that these are counterfeit.

I need to backtrack... I stand corrected about an oversight error I've made.

The cards I based my opinion on were not the mint looking ones being sold on eBay by Gilberto, rather a large grouping of lower grade commons I've owned since long before Gilberto's cards came to light. There were indeed two printers who made all the original cards, that information I am confident in.

However, I just examined a couple of the mint looking specimens more closely, and while they were definitely professionally printed, there are distinct differences in the cards that forces me to have to completely reverse my opinion. Maurice, my sincere apologizes, even though you didn't present a fundamental basis to make your claim that they were counterfeits, they are indeed counterfeits. And very good ones at that.

It is beyond my comprehension how someone could be so dumb as to counterfeit this set, but then again, it is easy to underestimate what people will do to make a quick buck.

The differences I just noticed between the "mint" newly found cards and the true originals are:

1) The entire green background is printed in half-tone when it was solid ink on the originals.
2) All of the green background borders are perfectly square with precision that only a computer could provide
3) The black ink is indeed printed as a solid color, but the font does not match exactly.
4) The images are very grainy but printed with high density half-tone, which would indicate they were likely scanned off originals.

I'll come right out and admit my error in this case. I was absolutely incorrect. I also vouched for Gilberto Gil, who I have dealt with in the past, but who clearly had a key hand in this. My apologies to everyone who participated in this discussion.

[steve B]

So there are two legit versions plus a batch of fakes?

Steve B

[sschauer]

So there are two legit versions plus a batch of fakes?

Steve B

No just 1 real and 1 fake. If you look under a loupe at the green border the real will be solid green on the fakes they are in halftone and will appear pixalated with some yellow.

[a761506]

So there are two legit versions plus a batch of fakes?

Steve B

Yes, there are 2 legit versions with two different font faces, both can be identified by the solid green ink of the background.

On the counterfeits, the green ink is always printed in half-tone (pixelated). The font for the players' names on the counterfeits is both thicker and bolder than the originals.

[sschauer]

Yes, there are 2 legit versions with two different font faces, both can be identified by the solid green ink of the background.

On the counterfeits, the green ink is always printed in half-tone (pixelated). The font for the players' names on the counterfeits is both thicker and bolder than the originals.

Guess I was mistaken can you post 2 legits if you have them.

[a761506]

Pictures of all 3 examples are already shown in this thread.

The Rose on the right is authentic with the more common type of lettering.

The Yaz in the SGC holder, as well as the Oliva in the PSA 1 holder, are also authentic, with the less common type of lettering.

The other cards pictured are all counterfeits. Note the thicker, bolder lettering.