O/T....Why has the Rock-n-Roll HOF snubbed CHICAGO ?

[tedzan]

Since we are taking polls on such irrelevant topics as legalizing "Mary-Jane"...... then I think this subject is worthy of discussion on this forum,
especially since the R & R HOF this month is permitting the populace to participate in voting for the 2013 inductees into the R & R HOF.

Anyhow, I have followed "Rock" ever since Bill Haley & the Comets' "Rock Around The Clock"....circa 1954.

My all-time favorite band is CHICAGO. They started with this classic 1st album of their's in 1969....The Chicago Transit Authority


http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/albumchicago.jpg
Notable Songs...... “Beginnings,” “Saturday In The Park,” “Feeling Stronger Everyday,” “Just You ‘N’ Me,” “Call On Me,” “You’re The Inspiration",
“If You Leave Me Now,” “Baby What A Big Surprise,” “Hard To Say I’m Sorry”

Which includes their 2 signature Songs "Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is ?" & “25 or 6 to 4". The meaning of this song remained
a mystery to me for many years. Several years ago, Frank Wakefield clarified the significance of "25 or 6 to 4".


Whatever, today's question to any of you......Why isn't this tremendous Jazz-Rock group in the R & R HOF ?

Furthermore, why not the.....Doobie Brothers, or Hall & Oates, or Kiss, or Three Dog Night.....or other great Rock groups ? ?


T-Rex TED

[HRBAKER]

I'm guessing it has to do with Peter Cetera's
hairdo.

Edit to Add: CTA is one of my fave albums. Past that
not too much.

[wolf441]

Ted,

You could have just started this post with The Doobie Brothers and combined it with the legalizing pot thread!

[Leon]

I have seen Chicago 3 times, 2 of them with original members, and they were absolutely awesome in concert. Not sure why they aren't in the Rock and Roll HOF....

[Robextend]

I can't believe they aren't in...thats really weird. Also Neil Diamond isn't in...another joke in my opinion.

[lug-nut]

i'm not old enough to remember all of chicago's songs but i do know their hits and i'm not sure they made a big enough impact on music which is one of the requirements to getting in as well as the others you mentioned.

kiss on the other hand i think made a huge impact with their antics, make up, big stage shows with the fire, blood and what-not, but i dont think their music had the quality. but i do like their music since it's borderline heavy metal.

with that said, seeing some of the other bands they let in, chicago and kiss should be inducted...hall 'n oates and doobie bros, 3 dogs and a cat...not so sure

[bunst]

My two favorite bands Jethro Tull and Rush are both not in...makes absolutely no sense when consider how much of an impact they have had in Rock 'n Roll and their longevity. And if anyone didn't know, Geddy Lee (Rush) is a major collector of baseball memorabilia.

[drc]

Rock 'N Roll HOF is for loser commercial bands. I'd be embarrassed if one of my favorite bands ever made it. Luckily, I don't think Discharge is on the short list.

Actually, it's true. I take Rock N Roll Hall of Fame very unseriously. And with quite a bit of disdain and sneering. I rank it up there as an idea with a Rock N Roll Amusement Park and the Rock N Roll Wax Museum. Voting by the public? Ooooh, that's makes it that much more legitimate. Can't wait for Backtreet Boys' induction.

[tedzan]

I have seen Chicago 3 times, 2 of them with original members, and they were absolutely awesome in concert. Not sure why they aren't in the Rock and Roll HOF....

Leon

Your...."absolutely awesome in concert"....best describes the experience of seeing Chicago perform.

I saw the original guys in the 1970's at the Nassau Coliseum (NY). The modern group in the 1990's at the Valley Forge Music Fair.....TREMENDOUS !


TED Z

[nolemmings]

Dialogue is one of my favorite songs from any band. Terry Kath left us way too soon :( And yes, Chicago's contributions to music were more than enough to earn them enshrinement.

[glynparson]

had they continued to make records as good as their first they would have been a shoe in. Many critics see them as incredibly talented but also see them as sell-outs.

[Robextend]

Actually, it's true. I take Rock N Roll Hall of Fame very unseriously. And with quite a bit of disdain and sneering. I rank it up there as an idea with a Rock N Roll Amusement Park and the Rock N Roll Wax Museum. Voting by the public? Ooooh, that's makes it that much more legitimate. Can't wait for Backtreet Boys' induction.

+1, well said...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Most likely because Jann Wenner doesn't like them.

[Runscott]

I don't like Rush or Neil Diamond, but they, along with Chicago, should be in the HOF.

Sounds like it's even more full of bullshit than baseball's HOF.

[tedzan]

Most likely because Jann Wenner doesn't like them.

Peter

I know of Wenner (and, his politics); but, what does that have to do with Chicago not being in the R-n-R HOF ?


TED Z

[drc]

The Rock 'n Roll exists to make money. It's not as there was a pressing public need to give The Beatles, the Rolling Stones or Black Sabbath more attention and awards. They are having the public vote not because they think it will produce better selection, but for $$ and exposure-- which right there makes a selection illegitimate from the start.

There's nothing wrong with that stuff, I suppose. Just don't expect me to to take it seriously.

And, for the record, there are bands in the HOF that I like and think are good. I'm not saying that being inducted means a band sucks.

[Runscott]

Turn off your computer and go get on the bus

[jcmtiger]

Actually the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame should be in Detroit anyway, not Cleveland.:D

[Peter_Spaeth]

Peter

I know of Wenner (and, his politics); but, what does that have to do with Chicago not being in the R-n-R HOF ?


TED Z


I believe he had some feud with the band or its manager, and it is claimed that he is very influential in terms of who gets in. Google Chicago Hall of Fame Wenner and you will see what I mean.

[ethicsprof]

I saw them perform when i was an undergraduate---1970 or so--- and have loved them ever since. They should definitely be in the HOF.
all the best,
barry

[packs]

Hall and Oates rules!

[jdmeltz]

Neil Diamond was inducted into the R&R HOF last year. He gave a notable acceptance speech:
"I have no idea where we are… What are we doing here? What the heck is going on right here?”

[buymycards]

Love Chicago. Just the lead guitar playing in 25 or 6 to 4 should be enough to put them in.

[Ladder7]

Worthy, When we were adolescents, the machos considered them a chick band, ala LRB and Barry White. But a necessary 8 track for the glovey. Agreed, everyone loved the Doobies x 10 (prior to Michael Mc)

Also for consideration; Grand Funk, Yes, Kansas, Derek and the Dominos, Boston, Rick Derringer, Foreigner, J Geils, Styx and all the others on my playlist.

[tedzan]

Check out this link for the "politics" behind why certain Rock groups (or individuals) have been snubbed by the R-n-R HOF........

http://www.futurerocklegends.com/blog_files/category-snubbed.php

Thanks, Peter S.


TED Z

[E93]

Not a comment on who is in, but I had an absolute blast when I visited the R&R HOF about ten years ago.

David,
I think you are safe with Discharge. There was a display on Punk but it was admittedly one of the weaker spots.

JimB

[E93]

P.S. A friend of mine from grad school (He did his Ph.d. in Art History) and former member of Del Fuegos, Warren Zane, used to be a curator there. Not sure if he still is. We've lost touch over the years.
JimB

[Bpm0014]

Hall and Oates should definitely be in. Most successful duo in the history of music. And I think they are in the top 15 of the highest revenue grossing artists of all time. Unbelievable talents.

[Robextend]

Neil Diamond was inducted into the R&R HOF last year. He gave a notable acceptance speech:
"I have no idea where we are… What are we doing here? What the heck is going on right here?”

Nice!!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Love Chicago. Just the lead guitar playing in 25 or 6 to 4 should be enough to put them in.

Reportedly, Jimi Hendrix said that Terry Kath was better than he was.

[barrysloate]

How come the Fugs aren't in the Hall of Fame?

[HRBAKER]

Neil Diamond was inducted into the R&R HOF last year. He gave a notable acceptance speech:
"I have no idea where we are… What are we doing here? What the heck is going on right here?”

Certainly he should have had no idea what he was doing there.

[MVSNYC]

Side note- there's an awesome new Rolling Stones doc on HBO, called Crossfire Hurricane, focuses on their first 20 years...sex, drugs, rock & roll.

ps- biggest R&R HOF void, IMO- Depeche Mode, just sayin'

[GregMitch34]

Is Jim Kaat in that one yet?

[bmarlowe1]

Innovative, technically excellent, and wrote a fair number of good songs. Well written and executed arrangements. Kath was an early shredder and was ahead of his time. Cetera's bass playing was tremendous - too bad his career then went in a different direction. Saw them twice with original members in Champaign and in Chicago.

[Robextend]

How come the Archies aren't in? :)

[kcohen]

How come the Fugs aren't in the Hall of Fame?


My English teacher in high school in 1966 or so brought the Fugs First Album in to class and played it for us.

Carpe Diem

[Brian Van Horn]

I can't figure out why Chicago isn't in unless it's backlash over the insipid songs Cetera had as a solo artist, i.e., "The Next Time I Fall."

[HRBAKER]

I can't figure out why Chicago isn't in unless it's backlash over the insipid songs Cetera had as a solo artist, i.e., "The Next Time I Fall."

.....and the post-Kath Chicago catalog of "No Tell Lover" - "If You Leave Me Now" and the such.

[barrysloate]

My English teacher in high school in 1966 or so brought the Fugs First Album in to class and played it for us.

Carpe Diem

Lucky your English teacher didn't get into trouble for doing that.:)

[drc]

Of my favorite bands, I think two have a chance to good chance getting in some day: Roxy Music and The Cure. Against my wishes, of course. I'd be surprised if Roxy Music isn't in there some day.

Forget this Rock HOF debate. To me the real crime is that my favorite player was snubbed out of an ESPY :)

[WhenItWasAHobby]

It's hard to to take the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame seriously when one hit wonders like Patti Smith and Dr. John get in and groups like Chicago don't. I guess at the end of the day, who cares? It won't change who I listen to.

[HRBAKER]

It's hard to to take the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame seriously when one hit wonders like Patti Smith and Dr. John get in and groups like Chicago don't. I guess at the end of the day, who cares? It won't change who I listen to.

I think Patti Smith got in for "Best Female Armpit Hair."

[drc]

Patti Smith and Patty Smyth are different rock singers. The latter was the proverbial one hit wonder.

[Rickyy]

Grrrr....Rock N Roll Hall of Fame...why u no select Roxy Music? -_-

Btw...I love Chicago...because old days mentions baseball cards...

Ricky Y

[drc]

I like Dead Kennedys because half their song titles are so blatantly offensive that Leon wouldn't like me list them here.

Actually, Dead Kennedys' first album is an acknowledged punk classic, but it was their gleeful intention to lyrically shock uptight people. Those who were seriously offended (and there were quite a few) missed it that they their songs were satirical and often humorous.

[mark evans]

Music appreciation is pretty subjective stuff. Chicago is not my cup of tea but I presume they belong in the HOF due to a boatload of cd sales over many years.

[drc]

I'm unfamiliar with their music, so offer no opinion.

My all time favorite band is The Psychedelic Furs. I'm confident they won't be in the Hall of Fame.

And, yes, art appreciation is personal and subjective.

[perezfan]

I like Dead Kennedys because half their song titles are so blatantly offensive that Leon wouldn't like me list them here.

Actually, Dead Kennedys' first album is an acknowledged punk classic, but it was their gleeful intention to lyrically shock uptight people. Those who were seriously offended (and there were quite a few) missed it that they their songs were satirical and often humorous.

Yeah... lines like "Crushed little kids adorn the Boardwalk" are hard to sell to the masses. Most don't have the capacity to appreciate good satire or anything more complex or different from the mainstream.

I've always viewed the R & R Hall of Fame as a "lowest common denominator", and pay no attention to who they enshrine. If Chicago is out, that probably bodes well for the band's true worth.

The fact that Dion is "in", but bands like Squeeze, Depeche Mode and The Cure are not demonstrates the HOF's lack of diversity and imagination. I guess the Chili Peppers somehow got in, so perhaps there's hope for other innovative/alternative bands. Not that it matters much...

[Runscott]

I think Patti Smith got in for "Best Female Armpit Hair."

I thought they got confused and thought she was actually Mick Jagger.

[murcerfan]

...........someone never saw Dr. John especially his last tour with The Blind Boys of Alabama

[HRBAKER]

I thought they got confused and thought she was actually Mick Jagger.

Speaking of Patti, I saw Springsteen in KC last night and "Because The Night" was part of the playlist.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

...........someone never saw Dr. John especially his last tour with The Blind Boys of Alabama

Actually, I have seen The Blind Boys of Alabama twice in a small club in Houston in the mid-1990s and late-1900s. Absolutely great.

I saw your prior comment before you edited it. No knock against Dr. John. He's truly talented, but electing him in the R&R Hall of Fame with only one top 40 hit and only two albums that ever got into the Billboard's Top 200 - one of which after he was elected, begs the question, "Why him and not.....?"


http://www.billboard.com/artist/dr-john/discography/compilations/4494#/artist/dr-john/chart-history/4494

http://www.billboard.com/artist/dr-john/discography/compilations/4494#/artist/dr-john/chart-history/4494?f=305&g=Albums

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Patti Smith and Patty Smyth are different rock singers. The latter was the proverbial one hit wonder.

I was aware of the difference. Patti Smith's only Top 40 Hit was Because the Night. An excellent song. I guess she had more commercial success with her albums than I realized. I saw Patti Smith recently interviewed in a DVD documentary Making of Darkness of the Edge of Town. It was an insightful interview detailing how Springsteen give her Because the Night, but the years sure have not been too kind to her.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patti_Smith_discography

[kcohen]

Yeah... lines like "Crushed little kids adorn the Boardwalk" are hard to sell to the masses. Most don't have the capacity to appreciate good satire or anything more complex or different from the mainstream.

I've always viewed the R & R Hall of Fame as a "lowest common denominator", and pay no attention to who they enshrine. If Chicago is out, that probably bodes well for the band's true worth.

The fact that Dion is "in", but bands like Squeeze, Depeche Mode and The Cure are not demonstrates the HOF's lack of diversity and imagination. I guess the Chili Peppers somehow got in, so perhaps there's hope for other innovative/alternative bands. Not that it matters much...


Maybe the important element is GOOD satire.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Patti Smith and Patty Smyth are different rock singers. The latter was the proverbial one hit wonder.

Patty Smyth is married to John McEnroe. Patti is not to everyone's taste but she seems quite authentic. I read someplace that she never really recovered emotionally from her husband's death in the 1990s.

[teetwoohsix]

A punk rock HOF would be awesome.....I can think of quite a few bands that should be in there along with DK,,,GBH, Minor Threat, Black Flag, Circle Jerks, Bad Brains, Exploited, Fear, Discharge, and many lesser known hardcore bands that are worthy (I love punk rock).

The rock and roll HOF is B-U-N-K,,,, re-do the whole damn thing. Artists that aren't rock and roll....?

At least RUSH is in the Canadian rock and roll HOF. RUSH should've been in a long time ago. I'm seeing them this Friday at the MGM,,,,,, already know it will be awesome. Can't wait !!! I hope they play "Anthem" :D

Sincerely, Clayton

[drc]

I once dated the lead singer for a 1990s all-girl grunge band. Except, she had gone to law school and was a lawyer when I met her. The only vestige of her musical past is she had about ten tattoos that she would have to cover before going to court. The band had toured in a van and everything. She was embarrassed about her past, but I assured her it was cool.

[Runscott]

I once dated the lead singer for a 1990s all-girl grunge band. Except, she had gone to law school and was a lawyer when I met her. The only vestige of her musical past is she had about ten tattoos that she would have to cover before going to court. The band had toured in a van and everything. She was embarrassed about her past, but I assured her it was cool.

Now she has two pasts to be embarrassed about.

(just kidding)

[drc]

Hey, I'm a catch. The only reason she broke up with me because she knew she wasn't good enough for me.

At least that's the way she interpreted it when she changed her number and took out the court order.

[theuclakid]

it must be so political....for me, the MOODY BLUES were (and still are) great and should be in....Bruce Perry

[Brian Van Horn]

Second the opinion on the Moody Blues.

[vintagechris]

Worthy, When we were adolescents, the machos considered them a chick band, ala LRB and Barry White. But a necessary 8 track for the glovey. Agreed, everyone loved the Doobies x 10 (prior to Michael Mc)

Also for consideration; Grand Funk, Yes, Kansas, Derek and the Dominos, Boston, Rick Derringer, Foreigner, J Geils, Styx and all the others on my playlist.

Nice to see some love for Boston. To this day, still the best live concert I ever saw.

[RCMcKenzie]

My parents took me and my brother and sister to the Houston Livestock Show and Rodeo in the mid eighties. Chicago was the band that played that night. The Dome's acoustics were awful, but it was okay for what it was. I'd rather see the Meat Puppets, but whatever.

[Al C.risafulli]

Patty Smyth was the singer from Scandal, author of such tripe as "The Warrior" and "Goodbye To You." Best things about Patty Smyth are that she's from New Jersey and that she has a child with the great Richard Hell of Television.

Patti Smith was a tremendously influential poet and singer that was a vitally important cog in the development of punk rock in New York City in the early to mid 1970s. She also co-authored songs for the band Blue Oyster Cult, married Fred "Sonic" Smith of the great band MC5, and has released about a dozen albums. She's noted for the Springsteen song she sang, but her albums "Horses" and "Easter" are absolute classics.

While I agree that the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is goofy, if I were to create one myself and start adding people to it, Patti Smith would be in it.

(/geek off)

-Al

[Michael B]

Al,

Richard Hell was leader of the Voidoids which included Mach Bell aka Marky Ramone.

Richard Lloyd was a member of Television. Still performing. Saw him a few years ago in a tiny club in D.C. with Billy Ficca on drums.

Cheers,

Michael

[Runscott]

Nice to see some love for Boston. To this day, still the best live concert I ever saw.

:( I had tickets to see them in 1977. They cancelled, stating that one of their band members had the flu, but the actual reason was that our venue was too small. They played the next night at a college in East Texas.

The tickets were super-cool looking - raised images covered with glitter. Hated to turn them back in for my refund.

[Michael B]

Al,

Sorry, you are correct. I wrote without thinking. I remember Richard Hell being in Television but I more associate him with the Voidoids and the Heartbreakers. I think he first performed 'Blank Generation' with Television.

Cheers,
Michael

[Peter_Spaeth]

A truly great photo.