Does anyone own This Playball 1939 Williams Rookie? Know Don Rose?

[grundle20]

Hi guys!

Just a quick bit of help with this 1939 Play Ball (see pic). I'm transacting with a guy Don Rose of Cleveland for this card. I'm doing it over mail and it's OFF Ebay (I know, I'm risking it, I know...).

Two things - I put the serial number in PSA and it IS in someone's registry. Is there any way to find who? And is it any of YOU?! Just making sure Don has the card published, that's all.

I'm just being careful! I'd appreciate any help! Please PM me if you know anything, or if the card is actually yours!!

Justin

[Peter_Spaeth]

Those borders look kinda thin. Compare

[thecatspajamas]

If you're concerned that he may not actually have the card and just grabbed a photo from someone else, ask him for something specific in the photo like the card next to a quarter (for size reference, right?)

Also, FWIW, Goodwin sold the same card in July 2010:

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=15077
http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotImages/17/Lot23a_med.jpeg

[daves_resale_shop]

Doesn't take a novice to see that the two cards with the same serial#s are very different.

Sincerely,
The Novice

If you're concerned that he may not actually have the card and just grabbed a photo from someone else, ask him for something specific in the photo like the card next to a quarter (for size reference, right?)

Also, FWIW, Goodwin sold the same card in July 2010:

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=15077
http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotImages/17/Lot23a_med.jpeg

[Eric72]

Same holder, same serial number; however they look like two different cards.

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b498/EricsPhotographs/WilliamsPSPhoto.jpg

http://i1288.photobucket.com/albums/b498/EricsPhotographs/WilliamsAuctionPhoto.jpg

Please let me know what I am missing here.

Best,

Eric

[Peter_Spaeth]

Fake flip, trimmed card. Those borders are a serious red flag.

[chaddurbin]

the font is totally off on the fake one, c'mon buying a card from some unknown across the country? are you going to fedex him 5k in cash? might as well send it to red cross.

[hammer]

Card is very bad, Do not buy and stay far away from this seller.

[Eric72]

Bar Code is also different, now that I look at the two pictures a bit more closely...the fake flip theory is making sense to me.

[wolf441]

Fake flip, trimmed card. Those borders are a serious red flag.

Agreed on the fake flip. Look at the end of the two bar codes. One has two wide gaps between lines and one only has one wide gap.

[wolf441]

Eric, I must have been typing just as you posted. Bar code is definitely off.

[cobblove]

why is this seller not in jail with this obvious evidence? Hes selling off line only. and has a obvious fake PSA case and fake card?
Really?

[RGold]

One of the advantages of buying cards from a con man. When you accept their offer and ask where to send the money, they usually will not try to increase the price.

:D:D:D

[Texxxx]

Call the Feds and see if they will go after the guy.

[Eric72]

Call Joe O, too. Pretty sure he would go after this guy.

[Leon]

It would be nice to do the deal and arrange for local pick up....with authorities in attendance unbeknownst to the seller .

[Texxxx]

Here is the Craigslist ad for it.
http://cleveland.craigslist.org/clt/3312496407.html

[grundle20]

I knew something was effed up about that card.

First off - you guys rule. Thanks for helping me sniff this one out!

I had arranged a local pick up with a friend. I think I'm going to try to keep the appointment and do something about it.

And good advice, I'm going to alert PSA about it....they're the ones who should really be fired up about this. Pretty crazy that they managed to get it in a holder looking the way it does....it's a pretty good con job.

[thecatspajamas]

Good luck, be careful, and let us know how it turns out!

[steve B]

Fascinating how the fake has more black space above the head. Usually they crop a scan of an original, this one looks like they had some better source material like a copy of the photo.

Steve B

[vintagecpa]

It is my meager opinion that these type of scams are far more numerous than on craigslist. I personally have found numerous examples of this occurrance, and i am far from a sophisticated collector. It is far more prevalent in post WWII cards because of the larger population. I believe the print-shop technology has gotten to a point where it is simply too easy to replicate a flip. It takes a very sophisticated collector to detect many of these cards. We can only guess how many of these cards are in private collection. We might only be finding the sloppy work. I hope I am over-estimating the problem.

[grundle20]

I agree with you Mike. I mean, reprints are ridiculously close (and getting better, as printing improves) to the real thing. Sometimes to the eye, they are indecipherable. Up till now, at least getting it graded was a nod towards authenticity (even if you disagree with the grade they gave).

If a crook can get the slabbing down, I mean, what then? There's not even a good hologram on the top of the current PSA paper in the slab. All you need to do is master the plastic. It's plastic! I mean, phone China and they'll send you thousands of 'em.

This guy was smart enough to make sure the cert # was the proper grade and all.

And why not? He pulls this off, he makes several thousand dollars off plastic and cardboard. Seriously, it's even MORE lucrative and EASIER than fake Rolex and Montblanc.

[Bocabirdman]

I agree with you Mike. I mean, reprints are ridiculously close (and getting better, as printing improves) to the real thing. Sometimes to the eye, they are indecipherable. Up till now, at least getting it graded was a nod towards authenticity (even if you disagree with the grade they gave).

If a crook can get the slabbing down, I mean, what then? There's not even a good hologram on the top of the current PSA paper in the slab. All you need to do is master the plastic. It's plastic! I mean, phone China and they'll send you thousands of 'em.

This guy was smart enough to make sure the cert # was the proper grade and all.

And why not? He pulls this off, he makes several thousand dollars off plastic and cardboard. Seriously, it's even MORE lucrative and EASIER than fake Rolex and Montblanc.

It used to be that a slab was foolproof, the grade disputable, yes, but a PSA or SGC (etc.) slab was at least an assurance that it was authentic. Trimmed perhaps, altered in some other way, but the card in the slab was "real".


Counterfeiters are an industious lot. Even if the grading companies upgrade the flips to include holograms, there are eleventy-two bazillion "old style" flips in our collections for them to duplicate. As of now, it seems the targets are limited to high-end cards. The hobby is on high alert. Every superstar slab is eyeballed endlessly. How far off can bogus slabs of $25-$50 cards be? The profit margin would still be insane. With nobody looking twice at a PSA 6 1956 Topps Larry Doby, if it was better than good, a counterfeiter could pump out hundreds and go undetected. :eek:

[MikeGarcia]

This should mean very bad consequences for the perp ; he might do anything to avoid confrontation and apprehension so caution must be paramount ; armed authorities is recommended here. Good luck but don't be foolish. And may he rot under a jail .

[novakjr]

This should mean very bad consequences for the perp ; he might do anything to avoid confrontation and apprehension so caution must be paramount ; armed authorities is recommended here. Good luck but don't be foolish. And may he rot under a jail .

I don't know him, but just in case he Googles his name. It might be better to remove his name from this site for now, to avoid tipping your hat...

A simple Facebook search only brought up 2 people with that name in the area, one is an older car salesman who on the surface just looks like a casual sports fan. If it's him, maybe he got scammed and doesn't know it, or just found out and is scrambling to get rid of it. The other by that name appears to be closer to Toledo, and while I know this isn't necessarily a fair assessment, judging solely by appearrance, I could easily buy some shady business.

[Jlighter]

There are four different profiles on LinkedIn by that name.